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Nostalgia is a valid emotion, it shouldn't be so looked down upon.
tixylix
Member UncommonPosts: 1,288
People these days always go "That is just Nostalgia, you wouldn't want to play that today" and while it is true, I wouldn't want to play that exact same game again, it doesn't make my feelings any less valid. I have nostalgia for amazing titles I once loved, I do not have nostalgia for crap ones, so there has to be something that offered that is still valid today.
When I look back at my nostalgia for EverQuest, I can list the things I loved that it was doing or trying to do that I miss from today. That is the key really, it is often used as an emotion of stuff that you miss which aren't being offered today.
- The sense of wonder
- Innovation
- A dangerous world
- Risk/reward
- Difficulty
- Big open (attempting to be at least) seamless world
- The world feeling big without fast travel
- Having to wait to achieve things, not having instant gratification and a checklist of things to do constantly. Todays MMOs are just boring quest grinds, but back in the day it offered a much more emergent experience, one where the players made their own dynamic stories, no just a linear quest system and following a path through the whole game.
etc etc.
The MMO genre was started to create online worlds, I remember thinking when playing SWG Pre CU "if they can deliver this now, I cannot wait in 10 years time to have much more world simulation going on" and it never happened. Instead the MMO genre died and it has been replaced by hub games and WoW clones, I'm going to call them WoW clones, because WoW turned the genre into what it is today. EverQuest before WoW was a very different game, it wasn't till after did SOE turn it into WoW, now ppl play that game and claim it was original... no EQ is nothing more than a wannabe WoW now.
My Nostalgia for the past is valid, those were the games I wanted to continue to play. Sadly though all the ones I loved are now ruined, but even if they weren't, you cannot play the same game all your life, you do eventually get bored no matter how good it is. So saying "well why did you quit then?"... well many reasons, but you have to stop a great game at some time even if it stays great.
I don't claim I want the same exact experience, I want new graphics, new innovations, I do want quests (but ones which are fun and not there to just be a grind ) and I do want new flashy combat as playing EQs combat now is just so bad. However I want the MMO to have the properties of the things that I miss and consider to be the genre. It's like I want an overworld based JRPG like what FFVII offered, I don't want what the modern day JRPG has become. Just because I have Nostalgia for FF7, doesn't mean my opinion is invalid and what we have today is much better... because it isn't.
I'm just bored of people saying to me that my opinions are invalid because they're based on Nostalgia. What we have today isn't even an MMO in my eyes... frigging Destiny is in mmorpg.coms MMO of the year poll..... wtf? The online part is a 3D lobby like Phantasy Star Online or Guild Wars, only with way less people. The actual game was just a coop game you played with your friends.
I want to be transported into an online world that makes me want to explore it and gives me a sense of awe. I don't want a big map that shows me where everything is, I want to explore it for myself and never know what is coming up next. Dayz has proved to me that I can still have that experience, while it isn't an MMO, it is the closest any game has gotten to making me feel like I did when I first started playing EQ and SWG etc in the last 10 years! It proves to me what can still be done with a big open world and without all the hand holding and other BS.
No one seems to want to put money into the genre any more after WoW clone failure after WoW clone failure for the past 10 years. Like why was the genre blamed as being dangerous to invest into? Why wasn't making bad MMOs blamed? Why wasn't creating the same exact experience each time blamed? "Log in, make a character and then grind boring kill 10 rats quests until you hit the cap and then do instances and BGs until you get bored".. pretty much sums up what the genre has been.
Back with UO,EQ, DAOC, SWG, PS, EVE and even WoW from a period of the late 97 - 04, it really was the golden age of the genre. Each MMO was vastly different from the other because no set standard was made yet. There was this strive for innovation of evolution and it was about developers building their dream. Now it is big corps who just want to emulate WoW and wont fund development unless the game looks exactly like it.
Comments
In the past, it was considered a medical condition.
If you want to see the damaging effect nostalgia has on a human being, just observe any ex-SWG player for a day...
I guess I just grew out of it... for the good...
First of all, don't allow other people to color how you feel or what you like or should like.
If you like those things you like them.
If a player says "I was a kid then" That doesn't mean those things are any lesser or should be lesser to you. Remember, It's hard to put validity to that argument when someone can just as easily say "really? you outgrew them but didn't outgrow video games in general which are still silly and a waste of time and money".
Because there are people that think "they are silly and a waste of time and money."
I mean, what are we arguing here? "these video games are better than those video games". They are still "video games". As good, fun, silly, stupid, worth the money/not worth the money as they ever were. As long as we aren't talking about very objective things such as "buggy mess" or "game not finished", whatever you like you like.
Don't let other people set the parameters of your life. If you liked it you liked it.
I still love a lot of things in early Lineage 2 and wish that many of those things propagated to newer games.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Completely agree OP, it's the reason I have a really hard time getting into MMO's or if I do that can keep my attention like UO and SWG did.
They felt like 'Worlds' where it wasn't static like MMO worlds are today. Hell, you could eliminate the world from 90% of MMO's and it wouldn't matter since it isn't utilized after you hit max level and all it is is instance this instance that.
Comprehend them really? you gonna play that card on this topic?
My 13 year old nephew started playing online games a month ago. Guess what, he will be nostalgic about today's 'dumbed down' games in next 10 to 20 years. That is what nostalgic simply is. Maybe then we can have a stand off between whose nostalgia was better.
The awe and wonder OP and people like you keep mentioning is one time thing. Nothing can over come that. Just like your very first crush and a kiss.
Really....name them
Very few are like DAoC, EQ, or AO (the ones I remember as a "world").
[mod edit]
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
There are games today that are more virtual worlds than any gen 1 game - why aren't you playing them?
Because you changed, the newness awe feeling is gone forever.
Like?
What you probably want, whether or not you realize it, is to be new to the genre again. But you can't.
There's nothing wrong with reminiscing about the way things once were. But it becomes totally unreasonable when it degenerates into saying that all of today's games are bad because they don't live up to the memory of how things once were--when even the games that you think you remember wouldn't live up to those memories, either.
But if you really do want a world that you can go explore and genuinely not know what you'll find out there, then try Uncharted Waters Online. Exploration is as important to the game as combat--and most of the best land weapons are discovered via exploration, not dropped as loot. And if you think it will degenerate into looking things up on a wiki, your language choices there are Japanese or Chinese.
It's not a WoW clone. Koei doesn't copy from games made by other companies. Indeed, Koei scarcely acknowledges the existence of other game companies. Which means there's quite a learning curve, as you get used to all MMORPGs do things in such and such a manner, only to discover that UWO doesn't.
I'm just fortunate to being born at the right place at the right time and enjoying all those NES, SNES, PSX, GameBoy, DreamCast, and arcade games that I would not play today. I would not because today there are multiplayer games, MMORPG's and single player games have not really evolved or become more complex, except graphically.
Once you experience the best, you know what you want and that's good. I just feel bad for those who never got to experience some of those MMORPG's like Ultima Online and SWG at their prime. One thing I've learned is...you never know what cards life will deal to you....
I'm playing today WOW, a totally different MMORPG. Do I enjoy it? Yes, but how much? Clearly not as much as I've enjoyed previous games. For good or bad though, for me it's the best option for the time being and I'm just fortunate to be in a place to just play anything and not find myself waiting for X and Y and Z game.
Nostalgia is a blessing. It's amazing memories that worth being treasured and cherished.
lol...nice non response....You meant to say none. No current MMO (not including WoW...for me at least. It was a breathing world when I played it. Dunno bout now)
If they made a STALKER MMO, a Fallout MMO, Halflife maybe? THEN...you would have a world. A REAL Elder Scrolls world MMO? Yes please.
But that it what is meant to be a world.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Nostalgia is a natural feeling. And there is something about going back to a familiar place from long ago that makes you feel comfortable. Or that makes you feel at home.
We grew and moved on in our lives. We had to leave our home towns (first mmo) and move to new towns (new mmo). We'll always have fond memories of where we grew up and naturally we want to revisit those places. Just as they where when we left them. But we can't truly do that. Those places have changed.
Our first mmos, if they are still up and running, have likely gone through so many changes and iterations that they aren't really the same game anymore. They aren't what we remember. For example WoW after the cataclysm. I can't go back to the old zones and play through them as they were. So it doesn't give me the same sense of "Ah I remember this thing. This is where such and such happened. And when I was here I had this thing going on in my life". But I guess people who started wow after the cataclysm can go back and revisit the same places where they grew up. So that's good. We'll just have to be happy for them and look forward to our future.
And again you are not reading...just responding.
There are 1000's of MMOs...NONE of them bring a world to me. Just a game. The MMOs I mentioned had worlds to explore. That you cared about. Not so much now. THAT is nostalgia.
Some come close...GW2 maybe, TSW is a good choice, AoC had a chance bet kinda fell short, ESO has a world feel but doesn't come close to what they could do with the entire ES world.
See...these are examples....
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
I do see this...you don't
You said that there are 1000's of MMOs to be nostalgiac about. There aren't. There are barely a handful now to be considered.
I agree with you about the feeling...is why I have posted what I did.
"There are games today that are more virtual worlds than any gen 1 game - why aren't you playing them?"
No...there isn't. There are NONE today like them.
Why not play the old ones? It is because the are old. No bad thing to say there. They are old! You do grow out of the old games and DO wish SOMEONE would make an MMO that grips you that way.....
Do YOU get it now?!?!?
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Vanguard could/should be considered in the Gen1 (your words...cause we have to label). Or at least close enough to where you actually get what I/we may be talking about. See? Not so hard to understand.
But wait....now we have to argue that it isn't qualified as Gen 1?
Nothing these days get s it. Period. Gen 1,2,3, or whatever.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
You say you want a game with a world to go explore, and then list several games that were never meant to have exploration as a meaningful part of the game. If you're not willing to give Uncharted Waters Online a long look, you don't want exploration, in which case, I'm not sure what you do want, other than to whine. Or if you want something other than to whine.
I agree with DMKano here.
But I'll also answer your question.
Wildstar is every bit as much a living breathing world as any of the 'original' mmos.
It has all of the same ingredients, plus more. Big zones, consistent, fun lore, chat functionality, guild functionality, combat, grind for top tier, group only content, etc. Name one feature Wildstar does NOT have that earlier mmo's had. It has every single feature the original games had. Ok, harsh death penalty - I'll give you that one. But is that what made EQ great? You may say it is an element but not the hinge everything else rested on.
What made EQ great?
Good friends, great guilds, raiding, questing, exploring, lore, challenge, learning all the nuances of the game, finding all the nooks and crannies. They still exist - but you simply won't put the effort in like you did when mmo gaming was new. Because, you can't rewind history and go back and experience the exact same thing you have already experienced and have it feel new and exciting. You cannot unlearn what you have learned.
But what is the common cry against Wildstar or any other modern mmo?
"Been there, done that"
One can't have their cake and eat it too.
One cannot on the one hand claim, "No game has what I had in the original games, and they need to put it back" and then whine that all the new mmo's are boring because, "it brings nothing new to the table".
This is the paradox of nostalgia.
You want exactly what you had originally, but you want something new you have never experienced before.
Those two things are mutually exclusive.
You either want what you used to have or you want something different.
If you want what you used to have, don't get bored with the games that emulate past games.
All mmo worlds are dead and don't breath.
The players breathed life into those worlds. The game didn't find friends for you in EQ. The game didn't create a group through chat for you. The game didn't put together a raid or a guild or explore the world for you. You did that. You. You made the game great. You. Make your own fate in the games you play. You.
In original EQ, a warrior had auto attack, taunt, kick and bash. That's it. EQ wasn't great. You were.
Name one other area of life where reality has met your nostalgic feelings. Here's some anecdotal evidence. My generation feels that Star Wars, Empire and Jedi were by far the best. We grew up on them. The last 3 (I, II and III) don't even come close. In fact, many of us abhor them with all of our being because they simply do not recreate the feelings we had when we saw the originals. My nephews first saw I, II and III. They grew up on them, it was their first taste of the Star Wars universe. They saw the originals as late teens and hate them - "They look so fake", "there isn't any action", "the light saber fights are lame". My jaw drops when I hear this and I'm pretty sure those statements make baby Jesus cry. We are nostalgic for the 'first time feel' not for our 2nd experience.
I remember my first kiss. I remember the first time I had sex. I remember driving a car for the first time. I kissed my wife today - but I doubt I'm taking that kiss to my grave, even though it was in every single conceivable way better than my first. Why? Because I've kissed my wife 1000s of times. It isn't a new experience for me. I'm not nostalgic for 'the time I drove to work yesterday' - but somehow am nostalgic for the first time I drove my 1978 AMC concord with 3 on the fly. Explain that.
Do I go onto automobile forums ranting about how the 1978 AMC concord has never been recreated and no car has made me feel that way since and how car manufacturers owe me that same feeling I had at the age of 17? Cuz back then you had to work. I remember struggling with the clutch and the 3 on the fly. The seat belts didn't quite work. Sometimes I had to push start it. I remember the smell of the vinyl seats. I remember the cracked and faded dash and vague odor of cigarettes from the guy who sold it to me - and it was awesome. Why can't a modern car company give me that feeling back? I mean I truly had to get to know my car back then.
See it is silly. Yet we do it with games all the time.
That is the crux of what nostalgia is all about. It's about the way we felt when it was a new experience for us. It has nothing to do with the way it was. Everything to do with how I felt. Games do not create my feelings. I do. I will not relinquish my right as a human to be in charge of my own feelings. I don't passively let binary code determine my happiness or dispair.
Developers can never make a game where you experience an mmo for the first time again. You did that yourself already. Be proud, you did it yourself - a computer did not create your emotion.
I guarantee you that no mmo will ever release that will make you as stoked as your first. Ever. Ever. Ever.
Ever.
You don't read well...not uncommon here....at no time did I ever say Uncharted Waters isn't worth my time. But it isn't worth mentioning here to me. Here's why...
Uncharted waters falls short of the "world" aspect to me as it had nothing to do with a "world". Large areas to go wherever does not make a world you get engulfed in...and then later have nostalgia about.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Neither is Wildstar...not even gonna quote that wall of text.
We were talking about opinions on nostalgia....I have said mine. It is about worlds that draw you in and mechanics the keep you there....
Have fun
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Same with the storms. It takes something bigger to make me wonder. But they are still impressive. I haven't seen a tornado or a hurricane yet.