Originally posted by Razorback Yup laugh it up know alls... We have gone from 1 MMO that had this model in the past being PE. Who every other MMO company laughed at when they suggested that their model was the future. To now where we have several MMO's that are free to play and that earn thier cash through "other methods" be it buying in game cash as with RV (Jorev's favorite game) or buying content such as Guild Wars or EQ2. Its no longer fringe developers implementing these models, it is now major companies such as Sony and EA. In science this is known as a "pattern" or a "trend". Go ahead and ignore it, eventually you will have to remove your head from the sand to discover its all around you.
Just because you only see MMORPGs going one way doesn't mean it's the only way it can go. There is a huge number of people out there that would never play a game like this ( just look at that poll ). That means there is a demand for games that use the normal monthly fee structure. If there's a big enough demand for a game some dev is going to try and fill it.
We're going to see alot of wow clones because many companies see it's success and will think it's easy money. Every game that comes out in the future will not be a wow clone, because there are other types of gamers out there who create a demand for something different.
Yes we'll see more and more games use the PE system ( maybe ) but it isn't going to become the only way to play.
Get stuffed no! I would never PAY REAL CASH for weapons armor and items for an mmorpg! You would end up speanding alot more money on items and weapons and armor than thw damn monthly fee!
I've already played games like this. FlyFF, Eternal Lands, Knight Online, several commercial MUDs, they all sell in game stuff for real money. You can get almost all of the stuff they sell in game, it'll just take longer. In fact, almost all asain games use this business model. I'm thinking that if you use this model and refuse to sell rare items, then put up an auction site for players to sell rare items (charging a fee of course), and then charge for certain events like PvP leagues and ladders, you could make way more than most MMOs are currently making.
Another thing to consider is how many of these items will actually affect the game. In FlyFF, quite a few of the items they sell are just decoration for your character and have no impact on the game at all. If some one want's to pay money for a year's supply of health potions then more power to them. I don't believe in buying XP and character levels though. Putting level requirements on weapons is a good way to prevent players from abusing this system. Sure, you can buy the 500-1000 axe of pure ownage right from the gate, but you can't use it till you hit the level cap Let's also not forget that if the game sucks, you won't have to pay for it. Unlike now, where you have to buy the box of a new game just to find out if it sucks. WoW, CoH, DAoC, and just about every other MMO that's come out in the last two years, didn't offer a 14 day trial until after their subscriber base began to level off. This usually happened in about 3 to six months. With free games, you know right from the release date if it's something you want to get involved in.
Why is the debate more about can they make more money doing it this way rather than does this make the game better or worse. It's almost like some people would take pride in playing a crappy game if the devs could say we make more money then any other MMO on the market.
If the devs make a good game they make money hand over fist. Trust SOe to go the way of more money for less game rather then a better game that makes more money.
I think it depends on how the business model is set-up, I'm a big fan of Roma Victor's revenue model and think it's much fairer on the player than the typical subscription model. For SOE I think the sale of items is to try and stem the flow of 3rd party sales, e-bay & IGE etc, they can see a lot of money being spent but none of it goes to them.
It is very important to know that there is a huge difrence betwen a regular MMOG, and a Cash Based MMOG.
I my self love MMOGs, I played Ultima Online for 5 years and it was a blast. But I also played Project Entropia for 2,5 years, and I must say that was just as great. But it canot be compared in anyway.
A regular MMOG satisfies the gamer in me, that I allways have been. But a Cash Based Game Satisfies the bussnies man in me. Project Entropia, and its Bussnies modell has been mentioned erlier in this thread, with mostly negative feed back as allways when someone bring it up on a gamer board.
But to clearify what Project Entropia is from someone that Hard Core played it. Its a "Project", its NOT a game. Anyone that that tries to play it as game will soon be deeply disapointed. Its a world full of bussnies opertunities and investments. Make god investments, get good profit. It is also designed to have an ethernal life time, you cant, no matter how hard you try hard core play it for 3-4 months and become uber, the skills system and skill gains are just design to take longer. So see it as a long term investment.
The negative feed back about newbies buying their way into the game... It happens, I have seen new players depositing 1000s of $, to buy the top Equipment. But what is a farmer with a state of the art battle tank? thats right, a newbie o.O
Equipment takes skills to use, and to make profit you need skills. Thought Projet Entropia has a skill transfer system (extracting and inserting skills with micro chips implentet into the brain). It would sill cost you about maybe 50 000-60 000$ to buy skills to become an uber.
I dont blame those that chose to invest in Projet Entropia, they clearly see the bussnies potential in it, and see it as an investment. I know I did, And I earned about 6000$ profit in my 2,5 years in Projet Entropia. Even if those two game types are very much alike they just cant in anyway be put i the same category.
I would hate to see the old MMOs be replaced with cash system games, but I do belive some more Real Cash MMOs on the market wouldnt hurt either, there is enough market for both types. Its all down to each one of us why we play MMOs and what about the game that apeal to us.
The thing that keeps me from playing Project Entropia is the "get rich quick" message they promote. It makes me feel that something shadey is going on. You don't see asian games with the same model saying "come play our game, it'll make you money!" Project Entropia does do this, and it sounds like a casino at best, a scam at worst.
That's not to say that people don't make real money farming in asian games, or that everyone that plays PE is going to always play at a loss. However, when the devs are promoting it like a pyramid scheme, something is not right. Had Project Entropia just presented itself as a regular game with a trading system, they wouldn't be getting nearly the bad press that they get. It's almost as though they had to push the gambling side of the game just to get funding for developement.
Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe The thing that keeps me from playing Project Entropia is the "get rich quick" message they promote. It makes me feel that something shadey is going on. You don't see asian games with the same model saying "come play our game, it'll make you money!" Project Entropia does do this, and it sounds like a casino at best, a scam at worst. That's not to say that people don't make real money farming in asian games, or that everyone that plays PE is going to always play at a loss. However, when the devs are promoting it like a pyramid scheme, something is not right. Had Project Entropia just presented itself as a regular game with a trading system, they wouldn't be getting nearly the bad press that they get. It's almost as though they had to push the gambling side of the game just to get funding for developement.
I agree, Project Entropia is more like a casino, now this can be in a negative, or positive way. That depends on how you chose to play it. But you cant make profit, with out anyone else lose on it. If you do something and make profit on it, it means that someoen else, is making loss. What you can do, is to increase your odds of profiting, skills, equipment, and knowledge about the game. Now if you are dedicated and plays seriusly you will eventually make profit, hard core players can make huge money. But it will allways be on the cost of someone else. And what goes out must come in, if a player with draws 100 000 PEDS (1000$) from PE, that means it will be 100 000 PEDS less in game, so if everyone would to with draw, but no one deposited, there would eventuly be no money in the Virtual universe, and no one would be able to make money becouse there would be no money to move around in the world.
But you cant realy make money IRL with out anyone else lose on it either in my opinion..
If it was a good(not any MMO out right now), I would certainly play it. Though if they sold items that would probably mean it would be item based so it would not fall under the good category.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open. Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
Comments
Just because you only see MMORPGs going one way doesn't mean it's the only way it can go. There is a huge number of people out there that would never play a game like this ( just look at that poll ). That means there is a demand for games that use the normal monthly fee structure. If there's a big enough demand for a game some dev is going to try and fill it.
We're going to see alot of wow clones because many companies see it's success and will think it's easy money. Every game that comes out in the future will not be a wow clone, because there are other types of gamers out there who create a demand for something different.
Yes we'll see more and more games use the PE system ( maybe ) but it isn't going to become the only way to play.
I would never PAY REAL CASH for weapons armor and items for an mmorpg!
You would end up speanding alot more money on items and weapons and armor than thw damn monthly fee!
I've already played games like this. FlyFF, Eternal Lands, Knight Online, several commercial MUDs, they all sell in game stuff for real money. You can get almost all of the stuff they sell in game, it'll just take longer. In fact, almost all asain games use this business model. I'm thinking that if you use this model and refuse to sell rare items, then put up an auction site for players to sell rare items (charging a fee of course), and then charge for certain events like PvP leagues and ladders, you could make way more than most MMOs are currently making.
Another thing to consider is how many of these items will actually affect the game. In FlyFF, quite a few of the items they sell are just decoration for your character and have no impact on the game at all. If some one want's to pay money for a year's supply of health potions then more power to them. I don't believe in buying XP and character levels though. Putting level requirements on weapons is a good way to prevent players from abusing this system. Sure, you can buy the 500-1000 axe of pure ownage right from the gate, but you can't use it till you hit the level cap
Let's also not forget that if the game sucks, you won't have to pay for it. Unlike now, where you have to buy the box of a new game just to find out if it sucks. WoW, CoH, DAoC, and just about every other MMO that's come out in the last two years, didn't offer a 14 day trial until after their subscriber base began to level off. This usually happened in about 3 to six months. With free games, you know right from the release date if it's something you want to get involved in.
Why is the debate more about can they make more money doing it this way rather than does this make the game better or worse. It's almost like some people would take pride in playing a crappy game if the devs could say we make more money then any other MMO on the market.
If the devs make a good game they make money hand over fist. Trust SOe to go the way of more money for less game rather then a better game that makes more money.
I'm not a very big fan of SOE (now there's a suprise). But I like to try things before judge them.
I think it depends on how the business model is set-up, I'm a big fan of Roma Victor's revenue model and think it's much fairer on the player than the typical subscription model. For SOE I think the sale of items is to try and stem the flow of 3rd party sales, e-bay & IGE etc, they can see a lot of money being spent but none of it goes to them.
It is very important to know that there is a huge difrence betwen a regular MMOG, and a Cash Based MMOG.
I my self love MMOGs, I played Ultima Online for 5 years and it was a blast. But I also played Project Entropia for 2,5 years, and I must say that was just as great. But it canot be compared in anyway.
A regular MMOG satisfies the gamer in me, that I allways have been. But a Cash Based Game Satisfies the bussnies man in me. Project Entropia, and its Bussnies modell has been mentioned erlier in this thread, with mostly negative feed back as allways when someone bring it up on a gamer board.
But to clearify what Project Entropia is from someone that Hard Core played it. Its a "Project", its NOT a game. Anyone that that tries to play it as game will soon be deeply disapointed. Its a world full of bussnies opertunities and investments. Make god investments, get good profit. It is also designed to have an ethernal life time, you cant, no matter how hard you try hard core play it for 3-4 months and become uber, the skills system and skill gains are just design to take longer. So see it as a long term investment.
The negative feed back about newbies buying their way into the game... It happens, I have seen new players depositing 1000s of $, to buy the top Equipment. But what is a farmer with a state of the art battle tank? thats right, a newbie o.O
Equipment takes skills to use, and to make profit you need skills. Thought Projet Entropia has a skill transfer system (extracting and inserting skills with micro chips implentet into the brain). It would sill cost you about maybe 50 000-60 000$ to buy skills to become an uber.
I dont blame those that chose to invest in Projet Entropia, they clearly see the bussnies potential in it, and see it as an investment. I know I did, And I earned about 6000$ profit in my 2,5 years in Projet Entropia. Even if those two game types are very much alike they just cant in anyway be put i the same category.
I would hate to see the old MMOs be replaced with cash system games, but I do belive some more Real Cash MMOs on the market wouldnt hurt either, there is enough market for both types. Its all down to each one of us why we play MMOs and what about the game that apeal to us.
The thing that keeps me from playing Project Entropia is the "get rich quick" message they promote. It makes me feel that something shadey is going on. You don't see asian games with the same model saying "come play our game, it'll make you money!" Project Entropia does do this, and it sounds like a casino at best, a scam at worst.
That's not to say that people don't make real money farming in asian games, or that everyone that plays PE is going to always play at a loss. However, when the devs are promoting it like a pyramid scheme, something is not right. Had Project Entropia just presented itself as a regular game with a trading system, they wouldn't be getting nearly the bad press that they get. It's almost as though they had to push the gambling side of the game just to get funding for developement.
I agree, Project Entropia is more like a casino, now this can be in a negative, or positive way. That depends on how you chose to play it. But you cant make profit, with out anyone else lose on it. If you do something and make profit on it, it means that someoen else, is making loss. What you can do, is to increase your odds of profiting, skills, equipment, and knowledge about the game. Now if you are dedicated and plays seriusly you will eventually make profit, hard core players can make huge money. But it will allways be on the cost of someone else. And what goes out must come in, if a player with draws 100 000 PEDS (1000$) from PE, that means it will be 100 000 PEDS less in game, so if everyone would to with draw, but no one deposited, there would eventuly be no money in the Virtual universe, and no one would be able to make money becouse there would be no money to move around in the world.
But you cant realy make money IRL with out anyone else lose on it either in my opinion..
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open.
Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
This entire topic is a buzzkill for me. It reminds me of the hollowness of my virtual life, snapping me back to reality, cheapening the fun-factor.
Just think of those who buy their virtual items on E-bay as pathetic losers.
First, theyre playing a MMO and value it so much that theyre willing to buy videogame items with real money, so they are pathetic losers in real life.
Second, they lack the skill to cheat and hack the game, so theyre doubly losers in real life.
Third, they cannot gain the items legitamately by grinding, so they are losers in the virtual world also.
Those that use E-bay are grade-A losers.