If all you guys want to do is PVP, why even bother with MMOs? Even if it takes only a day to max level, why bother? You can have instant PVP in nearly every shooter, RTS, MOBA, some RPGs that do feature multiplayer like good old Rune did away with character progression in MP too. Not sure about Mass Effect.
I don't get this "rush" thing. First you ignore 95% of the content that is there, made over the course of several years..and the moment you run out of content, you cry for more, blaiming the devs that they are slow and not capable of producing content faster than you burn through. At the same time, you forget that everyone has a different opinion on what the devs should do. If they'd listen to *you*, at least 50% of the potential players would have nothing to play at all (given the same attitude), 30% would be done in one day with what little was fun for them and another 15-19% would be done in a week. And a miserable 1%, if that big at all, would have (almost) the same opinion on "good" content as you, lasting them for a few months..
And all the while, it still takes the devs half a year or more to create said content in the first place, so in the end, you would still cry.
Either play a sandbox with open PVP, where you make your own "content", play premade PVP modes like in a MOBA, FPS, RTS etc., or play what is there. There is absolutely no point in clamoring for more content when all you do is rush through so you "can" PVP.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
Im sick a tired of these F2P games, i want subscription based games to come back, Cash Shop with P2W Items will ruin any game, im amazed that the game developers/publishers cannot see that, also i want games to become harder, what is with all the westernization where they make games so damn easy, you sneeze and you're max level, that is why i played Lineage 2 for over 10 years, it was hard and it took time, back then Lineage 2 was build on group grind which created so much social interaction, not to mention all the friends i made that way, now a days games seem so solo based, most of the time you just run around by yourself and do shit. Im affraid we wont see another great mmorpg until Blizzard makes another one all these Asian games keep failing..
My greater concern is will BD be able to do a better job controlling hackers, botters and other cheaters better than XLGames did with AA.
History of Korean made MMORPG's doesn't point to it.
Its made by the same guys that made AA so theres your answer on that.
No its not. XL games made AA and Pearl Abyss made BD. If you mean the same developers are on both teams that hardly matters just look at WoW and Firefall as an example of that utter fail. Or jake song with Lineage and AA lol.
Its not just coincidence its a copy and paste of the labour free to play system from AA.
Alot of the same people are making this game, and if thats any indication, their programming is absolute garbage.
I'll give you that in light of the new info for me on the labor point system i'll be passing on this pile of trash.
Originally posted by FeralLoki Im sick a tired of these F2P games, i want subscription based games to come back, Cash Shop with P2W Items will ruin any game, im amazed that the game developers/publishers cannot see that, also i want games to become harder, what is with all the westernization where they make games so damn easy, you sneeze and you're max level, that is why i played Lineage 2 for over 10 years, it was hard and it took time, back then Lineage 2 was build on group grind which created so much social interaction, not to mention all the friends i made that way, now a days games seem so solo based, most of the time you just run around by yourself and do shit. Im affraid we wont see another great mmorpg until Blizzard makes another one all these Asian games keep failing..
me too man, me too. I just want a flat sub rate game without any items in any form of cash shop.
I did not even know Black Desert had character levels. Sandbox games should not have levels at all. I found that out playing ArcheAge. Still gonna try the game out but looks like TERA will remain my game of choice.
Originally posted by FeralLoki Im sick a tired of these F2P games, i want subscription based games to come back, Cash Shop with P2W Items will ruin any game, im amazed that the game developers/publishers cannot see that, also i want games to become harder, what is with all the westernization where they make games so damn easy, you sneeze and you're max level, that is why i played Lineage 2 for over 10 years, it was hard and it took time, back then Lineage 2 was build on group grind which created so much social interaction, not to mention all the friends i made that way, now a days games seem so solo based, most of the time you just run around by yourself and do shit. Im affraid we wont see another great mmorpg until Blizzard makes another one all these Asian games keep failing..
I played Lineage 2 for 8 years and just retired from the game this year. Lineage 3 really is my only hope of ever playing a real mmo again. When ever the game comes out I hope they do not make easy leveling quest based wow clone or I am going to be heart broken.
The next will be Bless which is just another faction based WoW clone.
During the OBT of Black Desert, most Koreans were able to reach level 50 in 24-48 hours and stoped playing without much to do after that, BD rapidly went down in the charts.
First was ArcheAge and now BD, the next failure will be Bless. I wonder how much time they need to realise that copying WoW features is what leading to those short MMO hype followed by oblivion.
You can't make a rush to cap WoW style MMO if you can't provide a vast end game content as WoW does. And for me I'm not interested in rushing to cap, but in the journey and the socialization in open world when it comes to sandbox.
I couldn't even find Black Desert on the gamenote ranks, in the list nothing really changed, Lineage 1 is in 4th position, the most popular MMO in Korea. WoW was in a high position when WoD launched, but after devastating the content, koreans left the game in droves, and WoW went back to 29th position.
Black Desert and ArcheAge are not PVE focused games - they are primarily PvP games. Playing either game for PvE experience is sort of pointless, if you want PvE there are LOTs of existing PvE games to chose from.
This is why quick leveling, do you can PvP at max level without grinding for months.
You do realize that Black Desert is not released in Korea yet - so you won't find it ranked.
Also I don't see any point in comparing niche open world PvP games to PvE centric themeparks like WoW.
Apples and Oranges - completely different playerbase targeted.
Calling AA and BD "wow style MMOs" is hilarious as again they target a completely different player.
If I read the OP post correctly I do not believe he/she was trying to compare it to WoW. If anything the OP was trying to say one of the flaws of AA and BD was they were copying too much of WoW and that is why they will and have failed.... either way both references are incorrect. AA and BD havenot tried to copy WoW and I do not believe the large portion of players ever compare them to WoW. AA failed due to poor PR and customer service along with a horrible development team (no surprise there just look at how it did in RU and KR). BD I can not say, but if it is going the rush to max level so you can PvP similar to AA then it will fail on those merits. People want more than just PvP. You still need content and good content, you need a world that feels alive and changing and you need servers that don't get hacked and crash every other week.
I couldn't even find Black Desert on the gamenote ranks, in the list nothing really changed, Lineage 1 is in 4th position, the most popular MMO in Korea. WoW was in a high position when WoD launched, but after devastating the content, koreans left the game in droves, and WoW went back to 29th position.
For what it's worth, Black Desert is 58th in the rankings you linked--after moving up 14 places. That's not exactly enthralling news for a game that's just gone into open beta, but I think it's a little too early to judge how it will fair among gamers in the West when it finally arrives here.
Black Desert has little real competition in EU/NA for the kind of game it aims to be. Daum Games just needs to make sure not to fuck up the little things when they bring it over.
Originally posted by FeralLoki Im sick a tired of these F2P games, i want subscription based games to come back, Cash Shop with P2W Items will ruin any game, im amazed that the game developers/publishers cannot see that, also i want games to become harder, what is with all the westernization where they make games so damn easy, you sneeze and you're max level, that is why i played Lineage 2 for over 10 years, it was hard and it took time, back then Lineage 2 was build on group grind which created so much social interaction, not to mention all the friends i made that way, now a days games seem so solo based, most of the time you just run around by yourself and do shit. Im affraid we wont see another great mmorpg until Blizzard makes another one all these Asian games keep failing..
I played Lineage 2 for 8 years and just retired from the game this year. Lineage 3 really is my only hope of ever playing a real mmo again. When ever the game comes out I hope they do not make easy leveling quest based wow clone or I am going to be heart broken.
Originally posted by TheGoblinKing BD is based on labour points and F2P. Its going to be as fail as AA.
Not if they don't sell the larbor points in a cash shop. I don't know enough about BD to say I'm with or against it, but trade energy systems are cool. AA should have never decided to monetize theirs though.
edit - Level cap in a day sounds awesome btw. Isn't BD a pvp focused sandbox?
Do you really (seriously ?) imagine that they won't be selling "labour pots" in the Cash Shop ?
I've never heard of any F2P game that is designed with some limiting mechanism (energy, mana, labour, etc.) which doesn't also allow the players the "convenience" of purchasing additional allocations from the Cash Shop...
Just wanted to point out that BD has no lvl cap. You can lvl forever in this game. Getting to lvl 50 is just the start of being able to pvp. But the xp getting from lv l 50 to lvl 51 is the amount going from lvl 1-50 2x, and the xp keeps going up from there.
The next will be Bless which is just another faction based WoW clone.
During the OBT of Black Desert, most Koreans were able to reach level 50 in 24-48 hours and stoped playing without much to do after that, BD rapidly went down in the charts.
First was ArcheAge and now BD, the next failure will be Bless. I wonder how much time they need to realise that copying WoW features is what leading to those short MMO hype followed by oblivion.
You can't make a rush to cap WoW style MMO if you can't provide a vast end game content as WoW does. And for me I'm not interested in rushing to cap, but in the journey and the socialization in open world when it comes to sandbox.
I couldn't even find Black Desert on the gamenote ranks, in the list nothing really changed, Lineage 1 is in 4th position, the most popular MMO in Korea. WoW was in a high position when WoD launched, but after devastating the content, koreans left the game in droves, and WoW went back to 29th position.
Black Desert and ArcheAge are not PVE focused games - they are primarily PvP games. Playing either game for PvE experience is sort of pointless, if you want PvE there are LOTs of existing PvE games to chose from.
This is why quick leveling, do you can PvP at max level without grinding for months.
You do realize that Black Desert is not released in Korea yet - so you won't find it ranked.
Also I don't see any point in comparing niche open world PvP games to PvE centric themeparks like WoW.
Apples and Oranges - completely different playerbase targeted.
Calling AA and BD "wow style MMOs" is hilarious as again they target a completely different player.
They are not pvp focused either. They are primarily focused on open-world content, but that's what makes them very shallow, because the content is shared and very limiting. This is why players got bored very quickly when they saw what "endgame" was like in AA, and realized it was just limited open-world content, which consisted of Zerg PvP without strategy. The same is happening to BD.
Instanced content provides a much more enjoyable experience with a limited group size, where content is replayable, in a controlled environment. Primarily, PvP maps, Dungeons, and Raids, have much more replayability.
So yeah, the comparison is apples and oranges, but i wouldn't consider it a pve vs. pvp thing.
The next will be Bless which is just another faction based WoW clone.
During the OBT of Black Desert, most Koreans were able to reach level 50 in 24-48 hours and stoped playing without much to do after that, BD rapidly went down in the charts.
First was ArcheAge and now BD, the next failure will be Bless. I wonder how much time they need to realise that copying WoW features is what leading to those short MMO hype followed by oblivion.
You can't make a rush to cap WoW style MMO if you can't provide a vast end game content as WoW does. And for me I'm not interested in rushing to cap, but in the journey and the socialization in open world when it comes to sandbox.
I couldn't even find Black Desert on the gamenote ranks, in the list nothing really changed, Lineage 1 is in 4th position, the most popular MMO in Korea. WoW was in a high position when WoD launched, but after devastating the content, koreans left the game in droves, and WoW went back to 29th position.
Black Desert and ArcheAge are not PVE focused games - they are primarily PvP games. Playing either game for PvE experience is sort of pointless, if you want PvE there are LOTs of existing PvE games to chose from.
This is why quick leveling, do you can PvP at max level without grinding for months.
You do realize that Black Desert is not released in Korea yet - so you won't find it ranked.
Also I don't see any point in comparing niche open world PvP games to PvE centric themeparks like WoW.
Apples and Oranges - completely different playerbase targeted.
Calling AA and BD "wow style MMOs" is hilarious as again they target a completely different player.
I wanted to say the same, i follow that game since 2 years when the developers were chatting on their facebook profile with people who just followed them ..
The are no similarities with the AA except the labor system which in BDO is called differently and its ok and working. I dont know why you have problem with labor points .. The serious problem with AA at west, i thought, it was the inability of TRION to respond on hackers and exploiters ...
Both games have no link with WoW, i confirm that the OP's opinion is totally inaccurate ... And yes BDO is a PvP focused game no reason to compare it with PvE games . Also one major difference with the AA and BDO is that BDO will have the same publisher at West and Korea ...
The OP has no idea how BDO works and what it is about, typical post in MMORPG.com forums ...
p.s. on the article the OP has linked we get info that Tera is oe of the Top games, wasn't that a failure in S.Korea ..?
My greater concern is will BD be able to do a better job controlling hackers, botters and other cheaters better than XLGames did with AA.
History of Korean made MMORPG's doesn't point to it.
Once your entire playerbase requires a social security number tied to an online account amazingly hacking goes way down - which is why security is so lacking in Korean MMOs. This is a valid concern to me as well.
What MMO or online game requires you to enter your SS #? I must have missed them.
My greater concern is will BD be able to do a better job controlling hackers, botters and other cheaters better than XLGames did with AA.
History of Korean made MMORPG's doesn't point to it.
Once your entire playerbase requires a social security number tied to an online account amazingly hacking goes way down - which is why security is so lacking in Korean MMOs. This is a valid concern to me as well.
What MMO or online game requires you to enter your SS #? I must have missed them.
Probably because -- assuming the info in your profile to be correct -- you don't live & play online games in South Korea. I think the point is meant to be that Korean game companies require an account to be associated with a valid social security number, at which point, even in a non-sub game, getting a new account after being banned for hacking, botting or w/e is not simply a matter of acquiring a new throwaway email address but essentially requires criminal identity fraud -- so it might still happen, sure, but not on the scale that we see when these games get exported.
Originally posted by kitarad Why would they have labour points and not monetize it ? It seems an ideal method to make money.
Because that sucks in the long run. Labor or stamina isn't a bad thing in and of itself- it limits how much a player can progress, meaning nobody is going to be top crafts everything instantly. But when you sell a way around that it defeats the purpose, and it also makes the game p2w depending on how important crafting is.
As for infinite levels with crazy xp requirements, that sounds interesting but it also sounds like potentially a horrible grind. It depends on how powerful a 51 is compared to a 50. If it's substantial, I'm not sure I'd be up for constant grind leveling forever just to keep up with the Joneses.
Sell it or make multiple accounts to circumvent it its all the same difference.
The major problem with free to play games is so many no lifers have a dozen or more accounts and do nothing but run scripts on them all day long. Especially in 'competitive' ones.
Thats why AA was so scrwed up from the get go, everyone had multiple accounts, free or other wise, selling patron status in game just made it easier. Its not to let the guys with one acount play for free its for the guys running multiple accounts a way to use whales to subsidize them, Thats why no one ever got banned because someone somewhere was spending money to keep them all going.
When games used to go from Sub to free to play it wasnt nearly as bad because no one was left playing them anyway and they didnt change what made them bad by going free to play. But with so many 'decent' games releasing as free to play it just lets guys jump start their way in with multiple accounts and abuse the loop holes from the get go.
But in the end they all end up the same way...empty servers with no one playing and a few people spending just enough to let the companies keep the servers they have open. Even Lotro which has the best free to play platform going is dead. And it has been for along time now. even with fairly consistent content updates and some cool features it still cant get knew players or even hold the old ones beyond what time it takes for them to burn through any new additions.
So grinding is where it has to be because developers cant possibly make content fast enough to keep up with people burning through it. That has always been the case, and now that people have gotten used to no lock out timers on raids, or have turned away from 'traditional' raids altogether MMOs dont have a lot of options.
MMOS are a catch 22 in and of themselves anyway, they need to give players hundreds and thousand of hours of 'content' without seeming like a grind. Just how do you do that? Easy answer is with player made content like crating, RP stuff, PvP, exploring (random spawns) housing, and any other 'fluff' that may or may not be considered RP by guys who dont want to be called RP fags. Thing is no game has yet been able to master all that or give all that without problems.
I wonder how much time they need to realize that copying WoW features is what leading to those short MMO hype followed by oblivion.
Remember that all of the games you listed are made in South Korea. They probably do realize that they are copying the majority (if not all in some cases) from WOW or other MMO games. A few might add a couple of new features here and there, but that is how far they will go. They either don't care enough to stray from the standard formula or they don't want to take the risk. That isn't to say that these games "might" be fun for a month or two... but possibly not much beyond that: for the Western audience.
That goes for Bless Online, Black Desert online, Blade & Soul, EIN, Phantasy Star Online 2 (JP). I've already played a few of these, and they are fun for a while, but I don't see any of them being long term commitments compared to MMO games MADE in the west.
Remember that one big factor that all the games listed above have is an amazing character creator. It is one of the main features that they use to have players become attached to their characters (lure them in if you will). Most western MMO companies cannot come close in that department... especially with Black Desert's character creator.
Black Desert and ArcheAge are not PVE focused games - they are primarily PvP games. Playing either game for PvE experience is sort of pointless, if you want PvE there are LOTs of existing PvE games to chose from.
This is why quick leveling, do you can PvP at max level without grinding for months.
You do realize that Black Desert is not released in Korea yet - so you won't find it ranked.
Also I don't see any point in comparing niche open world PvP games to PvE centric themeparks like WoW.
Apples and Oranges - completely different playerbase targeted.
Calling AA and BD "wow style MMOs" is hilarious as again they target a completely different player.
The question is more then why they bother with PvE content at all. That is plenty of work they could use to make PvP and crafting better. Not to mention that if leveling is so fast why not just skip it?
Leveling in many (usually older) PvE MMOs is something that require a lot of work, that is true but in those games it is a lot of the point of the game. If you didn't like leveling in Everquest you just didn't play the game.
To me it seems like they just waste precious dev time on stuff they just put in for flavor or in hope that they will attract some players who the games isn't really made for which usually turns out to be a bad thing since those players leave fast and write bad reviews all over the net.
I think you should make all things in the game (PvE, crafting, PvP, dungeons, raids and so on) equally fun or just don't bother with them.
Hey, lets start a new trend of making up games that haven't even become an itch in someones pants yet and predict it's future, that way we can all wallow in our disappointment of life in general even longer than we do now. We're clearly not maximizing or disappointment factor if we don't go looking for it under every rock we can turn over.
I for one don't care what anyone says about the game... I'm still going to play it. It's going to be free to play after all. There's no loss to try it. Even if it only lasts 24 hours, it's still 24 hours... oh wait, that would be a positive. Damn game, how dare they put out a free game and only give me 24 hours of content to consume!
There, now we're all happy.
Telling game developers what's not acceptable before they develop a game is not wallowing in disappointment. Otherwise we can all bury our heads in the sand and have nothing to say when a game releases and it's crap.
Problem is, you seem to think that by the time you get to see the game it's still at a point in which they can totally revamp it. It's in open beta and due for release. It's not going to magically become something different because you want it to be so.
And for the record... games have been going down the crapper ever since the players got involved in the development of them. I for one wish the developers would stay in the black hole they initially penned out their ideas and only come out when the game is launching. All this arm chair directing is what is killing games... every one here bitching about what they'd like in a game are the problem. They give you want you want and you realize it's not really what you wanted. And even if it is what you wanted, no one else wants it. Sorry to tell you this, but its a game, not everyone is supposed to get their way.
Comments
If all you guys want to do is PVP, why even bother with MMOs? Even if it takes only a day to max level, why bother? You can have instant PVP in nearly every shooter, RTS, MOBA, some RPGs that do feature multiplayer like good old Rune did away with character progression in MP too. Not sure about Mass Effect.
I don't get this "rush" thing. First you ignore 95% of the content that is there, made over the course of several years..and the moment you run out of content, you cry for more, blaiming the devs that they are slow and not capable of producing content faster than you burn through. At the same time, you forget that everyone has a different opinion on what the devs should do. If they'd listen to *you*, at least 50% of the potential players would have nothing to play at all (given the same attitude), 30% would be done in one day with what little was fun for them and another 15-19% would be done in a week. And a miserable 1%, if that big at all, would have (almost) the same opinion on "good" content as you, lasting them for a few months..
And all the while, it still takes the devs half a year or more to create said content in the first place, so in the end, you would still cry.
Either play a sandbox with open PVP, where you make your own "content", play premade PVP modes like in a MOBA, FPS, RTS etc., or play what is there. There is absolutely no point in clamoring for more content when all you do is rush through so you "can" PVP.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
I'll give you that in light of the new info for me on the labor point system i'll be passing on this pile of trash.
me too man, me too. I just want a flat sub rate game without any items in any form of cash shop.
I did not even know Black Desert had character levels. Sandbox games should not have levels at all. I found that out playing ArcheAge. Still gonna try the game out but looks like TERA will remain my game of choice.
I played Lineage 2 for 8 years and just retired from the game this year. Lineage 3 really is my only hope of ever playing a real mmo again. When ever the game comes out I hope they do not make easy leveling quest based wow clone or I am going to be heart broken.
If I read the OP post correctly I do not believe he/she was trying to compare it to WoW. If anything the OP was trying to say one of the flaws of AA and BD was they were copying too much of WoW and that is why they will and have failed.... either way both references are incorrect. AA and BD havenot tried to copy WoW and I do not believe the large portion of players ever compare them to WoW. AA failed due to poor PR and customer service along with a horrible development team (no surprise there just look at how it did in RU and KR). BD I can not say, but if it is going the rush to max level so you can PvP similar to AA then it will fail on those merits. People want more than just PvP. You still need content and good content, you need a world that feels alive and changing and you need servers that don't get hacked and crash every other week.
For what it's worth, Black Desert is 58th in the rankings you linked--after moving up 14 places. That's not exactly enthralling news for a game that's just gone into open beta, but I think it's a little too early to judge how it will fair among gamers in the West when it finally arrives here.
Black Desert has little real competition in EU/NA for the kind of game it aims to be. Daum Games just needs to make sure not to fuck up the little things when they bring it over.
Yea i hear ya, i crossing my fingers aswell.
Do you really (seriously ?) imagine that they won't be selling "labour pots" in the Cash Shop ?
I've never heard of any F2P game that is designed with some limiting mechanism (energy, mana, labour, etc.) which doesn't also allow the players the "convenience" of purchasing additional allocations from the Cash Shop...
Just wanted to point out that BD has no lvl cap. You can lvl forever in this game. Getting to lvl 50 is just the start of being able to pvp. But the xp getting from lv l 50 to lvl 51 is the amount going from lvl 1-50 2x, and the xp keeps going up from there.
They are not pvp focused either. They are primarily focused on open-world content, but that's what makes them very shallow, because the content is shared and very limiting. This is why players got bored very quickly when they saw what "endgame" was like in AA, and realized it was just limited open-world content, which consisted of Zerg PvP without strategy. The same is happening to BD.
Instanced content provides a much more enjoyable experience with a limited group size, where content is replayable, in a controlled environment. Primarily, PvP maps, Dungeons, and Raids, have much more replayability.
So yeah, the comparison is apples and oranges, but i wouldn't consider it a pve vs. pvp thing.
This is the first I've heard of BD using labor points like AA. If this is true, consider me no longer looking forward to playing BD.
I wanted to say the same, i follow that game since 2 years when the developers were chatting on their facebook profile with people who just followed them ..
The are no similarities with the AA except the labor system which in BDO is called differently and its ok and working. I dont know why you have problem with labor points .. The serious problem with AA at west, i thought, it was the inability of TRION to respond on hackers and exploiters ...
Both games have no link with WoW, i confirm that the OP's opinion is totally inaccurate ... And yes BDO is a PvP focused game no reason to compare it with PvE games . Also one major difference with the AA and BDO is that BDO will have the same publisher at West and Korea ...
The OP has no idea how BDO works and what it is about, typical post in MMORPG.com forums ...
p.s. on the article the OP has linked we get info that Tera is oe of the Top games, wasn't that a failure in S.Korea ..?
guaranteed.
Thats the entire point of making the LB system. If its not in there yet, it will be.
Its F2P, its all about squeezing as much money out of players as possible.
Make sure to have the old credit card handy when it launches.
What MMO or online game requires you to enter your SS #? I must have missed them.
Probably because -- assuming the info in your profile to be correct -- you don't live & play online games in South Korea. I think the point is meant to be that Korean game companies require an account to be associated with a valid social security number, at which point, even in a non-sub game, getting a new account after being banned for hacking, botting or w/e is not simply a matter of acquiring a new throwaway email address but essentially requires criminal identity fraud -- so it might still happen, sure, but not on the scale that we see when these games get exported.
Because that sucks in the long run. Labor or stamina isn't a bad thing in and of itself- it limits how much a player can progress, meaning nobody is going to be top crafts everything instantly. But when you sell a way around that it defeats the purpose, and it also makes the game p2w depending on how important crafting is.
As for infinite levels with crazy xp requirements, that sounds interesting but it also sounds like potentially a horrible grind. It depends on how powerful a 51 is compared to a 50. If it's substantial, I'm not sure I'd be up for constant grind leveling forever just to keep up with the Joneses.
Sell it or make multiple accounts to circumvent it its all the same difference.
The major problem with free to play games is so many no lifers have a dozen or more accounts and do nothing but run scripts on them all day long. Especially in 'competitive' ones.
Thats why AA was so scrwed up from the get go, everyone had multiple accounts, free or other wise, selling patron status in game just made it easier. Its not to let the guys with one acount play for free its for the guys running multiple accounts a way to use whales to subsidize them, Thats why no one ever got banned because someone somewhere was spending money to keep them all going.
When games used to go from Sub to free to play it wasnt nearly as bad because no one was left playing them anyway and they didnt change what made them bad by going free to play. But with so many 'decent' games releasing as free to play it just lets guys jump start their way in with multiple accounts and abuse the loop holes from the get go.
But in the end they all end up the same way...empty servers with no one playing and a few people spending just enough to let the companies keep the servers they have open. Even Lotro which has the best free to play platform going is dead. And it has been for along time now. even with fairly consistent content updates and some cool features it still cant get knew players or even hold the old ones beyond what time it takes for them to burn through any new additions.
So grinding is where it has to be because developers cant possibly make content fast enough to keep up with people burning through it. That has always been the case, and now that people have gotten used to no lock out timers on raids, or have turned away from 'traditional' raids altogether MMOs dont have a lot of options.
MMOS are a catch 22 in and of themselves anyway, they need to give players hundreds and thousand of hours of 'content' without seeming like a grind. Just how do you do that? Easy answer is with player made content like crating, RP stuff, PvP, exploring (random spawns) housing, and any other 'fluff' that may or may not be considered RP by guys who dont want to be called RP fags. Thing is no game has yet been able to master all that or give all that without problems.
Is Perfect World Entertainment producing this game? No?
They should. It would give people a better clue to stay the hell away and save their money.
Remember that all of the games you listed are made in South Korea. They probably do realize that they are copying the majority (if not all in some cases) from WOW or other MMO games. A few might add a couple of new features here and there, but that is how far they will go. They either don't care enough to stray from the standard formula or they don't want to take the risk. That isn't to say that these games "might" be fun for a month or two... but possibly not much beyond that: for the Western audience.
That goes for Bless Online, Black Desert online, Blade & Soul, EIN, Phantasy Star Online 2 (JP). I've already played a few of these, and they are fun for a while, but I don't see any of them being long term commitments compared to MMO games MADE in the west.
Remember that one big factor that all the games listed above have is an amazing character creator. It is one of the main features that they use to have players become attached to their characters (lure them in if you will). Most western MMO companies cannot come close in that department... especially with Black Desert's character creator.
The question is more then why they bother with PvE content at all. That is plenty of work they could use to make PvP and crafting better. Not to mention that if leveling is so fast why not just skip it?
Leveling in many (usually older) PvE MMOs is something that require a lot of work, that is true but in those games it is a lot of the point of the game. If you didn't like leveling in Everquest you just didn't play the game.
To me it seems like they just waste precious dev time on stuff they just put in for flavor or in hope that they will attract some players who the games isn't really made for which usually turns out to be a bad thing since those players leave fast and write bad reviews all over the net.
I think you should make all things in the game (PvE, crafting, PvP, dungeons, raids and so on) equally fun or just don't bother with them.
Problem is, you seem to think that by the time you get to see the game it's still at a point in which they can totally revamp it. It's in open beta and due for release. It's not going to magically become something different because you want it to be so.
And for the record... games have been going down the crapper ever since the players got involved in the development of them. I for one wish the developers would stay in the black hole they initially penned out their ideas and only come out when the game is launching. All this arm chair directing is what is killing games... every one here bitching about what they'd like in a game are the problem. They give you want you want and you realize it's not really what you wanted. And even if it is what you wanted, no one else wants it. Sorry to tell you this, but its a game, not everyone is supposed to get their way.