What the hell are you playing then? I suggest you get yourself a time machine and go back to 2001.
Anyone complaining about cash shops are nuts.
Another thing I don't like about cash shop, F2P proponents who are super aggressive and angsty toward players who don't accept their model.
They are always the same aggressive replies.
"STOP PLAYING MMO".."DEVELOPERS HAVE TO EAT!".."IT'S NOT PAY2WIN".."NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO SPEND MONEY!!"
F2P / cash shop players are angsty and aggressive in nature, in your face kind of attitude, just like F2P, buy buy buy, spend money spend money, everythign NOW NOW NOW, buy stuff, level faster, go go go, so aggressive, completely opposite of P2P players.
The games are like the players, constantly haggling you for money, constantly in an aggressive way, trying to nickel and dime you, pretending the game is free, but around every corner there is another way to shake you for money.
Everquest 2 was probably the first game doing this, I remember the Wow fans laughing and then Wow started to sell stuff 6 months later.
And yes, it sucks completely, the reason to pay monthly fees is so you get access to the entire game.
F2P games who have monthly subscriptions suck as much though.
They suck more because they never give you as much with the sub as sub games do - there are always one or a couple of things that will still cost extra. Not to mention the gambling boxes most of them have and the amount of cash store currency they typically include with the sub just to get you used to using the shop.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I would argue it wasn't in most games before simply because they hadn't really thought of putting their out of game stores into the game or making it accessible in the game.
However I don't see very much difference between an in game store vs paying xx more for extra things in expansion packs or collectors editions. In fact the only difference is packs and collectors are time limited, you are still paying real money for things in game.
Therefore I content that by large gamers have never had a problem with it. Oh people will throw up their arms and say of course they did, then go out and spend money on the collectors edition to get the in game toy.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by azzamasin Cash shops are awesome. It allows players to buy and monetize what they want.
Then you're in luck as most games now have some kind of cash shop in it
Players (like me) that prefer to pay once a month and not worry about it anymore (putting the card away) are fucked.
I don't understand how you would be "fucked"? Let's take for instance Rift, Tera, Aion and also Guild Wars 2: Nothing about the core game has changed. So, how would the cash shop affect you in a negative way? They still give you the option to pay a subscription ( except for GW2 of course ) and usually come with additional perks if you "choose" to patronize their business with faction rep bonus, currency bonus, xp bonus, etc...
Let's take for instance I have a co-worker that swears up and down that WoW raiding is the bomb and invites me to join his raiding guild. I decide to bite the bullet and grab WoD and notice an instant lvl 90 option on the Blizzard store. I'm working full-time and I really don't care for the lvl up experience because xp grind is the same animal in every MMO under the sun. Since me and homeboy used to raid it up in Rift back in the GSB days and we were great as a Tank/Healer combo, I just want to get to raiding ASAP. So I buy the instant lvl 90 to "help" get me there because starting from one is not an option when I have maxed out toons sitting in other games. How does that affect you as a totally separate player most likely in a different server, negatively? The core game play is still the same.
I still have not been able to find an option to pay for +160% situational awareness stat boost in any cash shop. Although, I do believe there are folks who could use an item like that ( lookin at you DPS ). Unless a P2P game sets up a system with a pay wall to content, a cash shop loaded with shiny cosmetic items/boosts should not impact the core of the game an "individual" is playing.
Everquest 2 was probably the first game doing this, I remember the Wow fans laughing and then Wow started to sell stuff 6 months later.
And yes, it sucks completely, the reason to pay monthly fees is so you get access to the entire game.
F2P games who have monthly subscriptions suck as much though.
It wasn't just EQ, SOE was doing it in SWG if I recall.
Yeah. SWG had a card game where you bought packs with RL money and sometimes you got item cards that contained ingame items for your character.
At FFXIV's defence, it's cash shop only contain previous unobtainable festival cosmetics, a potion to change char appearance that you get 3 of from veteran rewards anyway and a horse mount that should have been ingame but since all mounts have same speed, it's purely cosmetic.
I'll worry if they keep adding more mounts or game changing stuff but so far it's pretty useless stuff
Originally posted by flizzer It creeps in to games and before you realize it has become routine. Just think of the old analogy with the frog and the temperature of the water ever increasing. Players now defense this practice as they have become accustomed to it. Go back in time 10 years or so and question players if they would accept practices that are routine today. I would hazard a guess you would hear a resounding "Hell, no!". Fast forward to 2015 and few people protest.
This added to the fact that people in general are not good at dropping bad habits.
When casual players decided instead of playing a game that fit their available time they would rather spend money to keep up in an imaginary competition.
Microtransactions of any kind are not acceptable in subscription game. It does destroy biggest benefit and whole purpose of subscription in first place from my player point of view.
If cash shops and legalized RMT will continue to be the norm as it is right now, I probably will never play an MMO again. If I do play it, will not give a single cent to the developer. MMOs should be about progression and actual game worlds, not soem lobby based cash shop where you spend real money to skip time or gear progression. Is it pay to win? No, probably not by to the standards these days.
But ask your self this, in the modern times. You have a decent job, got money to spend. Time however, you might lack. But you are looking for a game that is rewarding and you want the time you spend in the game to mean something.
With the current norm of "we are not P2W, we just sell things and currency so you can progress/ skip most of our game".
If you are looking for a game that really is, "your game", where you have to invest your time, blood and sweat. Where it matters, true MMORPG players look for a game where what they do matters. Not some game where you can just pay to skip content or progress faster.
If you ever want a MMORPG again that is actually a proper game, not a glorified RMT cash shop, stop giving them your money,
If cash shops and legalized RMT will continue to be the norm as it is right now, I probably will never play an MMO again. If I do play it, will not give a single cent to the developer. MMOs should be about progression and actual game worlds, not soem lobby based cash shop where you spend real money to skip time or gear progression. Is it pay to win? No, probably not by to the standards these days.
But ask your self this, in the modern times. You have a decent job, got money to spend. Time however, you might lack. But you are looking for a game that is rewarding and you want the time you spend in the game to mean something.
With the current norm of "we are not P2W, we just sell things and currency so you can progress/ skip most of our game".
If you are looking for a game that really is, "your game", where you have to invest your time, blood and sweat. Where it matters, true MMORPG players look for a game where what they do matters. Not some game where you can just pay to skip content or progress faster.
If you ever want a MMORPG again that is actually a proper game, not a glorified RMT cash shop, stop giving them your money,
The problem is that companies are better off with cash shops, and losing you (and others) as a customer. The only way that you can change this is to SPEND money, not stop spending (and losing your value). If all the people that were against this were to find a niche game that doesn't have a cash shop, and spend lots of money on it... it would convince the games with a cash shop, that it might be worthwhile to drop it....
Originally posted by Superman0X People have forgotten the basic of the market: supply and demand. It does not matter what any individual wants, it only matters what the market is willing to pay for.
If person A is going to STOP paying their $15 per month because of a cash shop, but people B-K are willing to pay their $15 per month, plus $5 per month in the cash shop then this is a huge net gain, and it is in the business best interest to lose players, but make more money. The only way to prevent this type of scenario is for Player A to pay $60 per month to make it not worthwhile for the business to support the change.
And THIS is why to me, MMOs are businesses first and foremost and NOT some kind of artform or entertainment. A business (MMO) can never make "too much" and will charge and charge and charge until their customers start to disappear.They are no longer about "exploring what may be possible for the medium" but rather "what can we make the most money off of?"
All art and entertainment is a business in some way.
Do you think the Boston Symphony or Metropolitan Opera doesn't think of ways to monetize their brand?
Or pick your favorite museum and see how they add perks for patrons who give "x" amount of dollars.
People work, institutions want to be successful and money is how we do it. We could trade chickens or wood but at this stage in the game that's just awkward.
There is, to me, a vast difference between making money and greed. I doubt the Boston Symphony ever goes into their season thinking, "How much can we make by playing the latest popular songs? Would a couple of Justin Bieber tunes bring in more money?" THAT is the difference.
An MMO charging a sub should be making money. Adding a cash shop just means they want more money. Then, after that is added, their content update decisions are based more on "What can we sell in the cash shop." instead of "What will keep the players playing?"
Tying the 2 together, MMOs reached out to an audience that had no interest in the "artform." Why? To make more money (greed). If The Boston Symphony started to include "Pop Songs" in order to reach out to a younger audience, then they have sold out (greed). Now, playing Frank Zappa Orchestral pieces is a different story
When an artform/entertainment makes their decisions based solely on monetary profit, then they cease to be what they claim to be. There is a reason the term "sell out" got coined (irony? ).
Large company MMOs, as they are now, make their "creative" decisions based on max monetization and formulas, not creative inspiration for the artform. Their "creativity" seems to be reserved to monetization
I will never call mass produced paintings hanging in hotels "Art", though some may call it so. Michael Bey makes films that make money, not art. I now add Peter Jackson to that list because of his butchering of The Hobbit. 3 movies out of a 200+ page children's story? Pure greed there.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
FFXIV cash shop is mostly skins from previous events. The only controversial item is the Slepinir mount which is not obtainable in game (24 dollars). I will only have an issue with it if it has things that give players an advantage, gil or stat wise.
Originally posted by azzamasin Cash shops are awesome. It allows players to buy and monetize what they want.
Then you're in luck as most games now have some kind of cash shop in it :)Players (like me) that prefer to pay once a month and not worry about it anymore (putting the card away) are fucked.
I don't understand how you would be "fucked"? Let's take for instance Rift, Tera, Aion and also Guild Wars 2: Nothing about the core game has changed. So, how would the cash shop affect you in a negative way? They still give you the option to pay a subscription ( except for GW2 of course ) and usually come with additional perks if you "choose" to patronize their business with faction rep bonus, currency bonus, xp bonus, etc...
It is the principle of the thing. I prefer the "buy the WHOLE game" concept of yesteryear over this buy this piece of armor or weapon here, buy this dye to make it pretty there that cash shops offer. Since almost every MMO has some form of cash shop, I am "fucked" on principle.
I have absolutely no problem paying a set fee every month for the whole game like I do for my telephone, cable service, internet service, and other forms of entertainment. Would pay your cable company on a per show watched every month? How about NetFlix for each movie you watched? Or GameFly for each game rented?
Sure, there are some MMOs where the cash shop is not too intrusive, yet is still there, asking to be used through purposeful game mechanics. All too often, though, MMOs use the cash shop as a "gate" for content.
I understand your opinion and preference. Please try to understand my own
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
There is, to me, a vast difference between making money and greed. I doubt the Boston Symphony never goes into their season thinking, "How much can we make by playing the latest popular songs? Would a couple of Justin Bieber tunes bring in more money?" THAT is the difference.
Sure they do. Boston Pops.
As far as "what makes art" well, you can't really say what is art and what is not except for what "you" think of as art. There are galleries in MOMA that would be considered crap by many but obviously "art" by those who choose them to be there.
Just because game developers need to figure out how to get money for a product that is ever more expensive to produce doesn't mean that they don't try to do their best at creating great games and even injecting some "art" (and i don't mean creating art assets) into their work.
As far as dissing Michael Bay, it is important to note that when making "Team America", Trey Parker and Matt Stone wanted to lampoon some of what Michael Bay did. After making it they indicated that they developed huge respect for what he does because they learned exactly how hard it was to pull of some of those shots, and that it wasn't something that was easily done. There is an art to what he does even though one might not recognize it as "high art".
There's always going to be someone who disses what another does, nothing that can be done about that. However, maybe one could look a little deeper and if not liking what someone does they might at least recognize what goes into them doing it and that sometimes a bit of artistry is required, even if it isn't to your taste.
as far as "cash shops" go, I'm not a general fan of them though there was a time when I thought they could have been used to bolster armor and weapons in Lord of the Rings online. The thought that more time could be spent designing halfway decent items if players were willing to pay for them. That however never really happened.
In the end, players want great looking games. Not everyone has to have them (myself included though aesthetics are very important to me) but this forum is proof enough that when a game is mentioned that looks "so 2004" (or earlier) it gets belittled because of animations, "graphics", etc. Well, developers need money to make this stuff happen.
People on this forum like to make developers seem like "Mr Burns", sitting in their castle and thinking of ways to fleece players. I strongly suspect it's a lot more complicated than that and that developers are constantly battling the business side just to do what they love. How many of us would enter into an occupation that many times means you will be out of a job once the project is done?
Not to mention all the crap they have to put up with from demanding players who think it's easy and that they know better.
Cash shops are here because games are expensive. Games are expensive because players demand more and large studios would love to continue to "be in business".
It's unfortunate but there it is.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by azzamasin Cash shops are awesome. It allows players to buy and monetize what they want.
Then you're in luck as most games now have some kind of cash shop in it
Players (like me) that prefer to pay once a month and not worry about it anymore (putting the card away) are fucked.
I don't understand how you would be "fucked"? Let's take for instance Rift, Tera, Aion and also Guild Wars 2: Nothing about the core game has changed. So, how would the cash shop affect you in a negative way? They still give you the option to pay a subscription ( except for GW2 of course ) and usually come with additional perks if you "choose" to patronize their business with faction rep bonus, currency bonus, xp bonus, etc...
It is the principle of the thing. I prefer the "buy the WHOLE game" concept of yesteryear over this buy this piece of armor or weapon here, buy this dye to make it pretty there that cash shops offer. Since almost every MMO has some form of cash shop, I am "fucked" on principle.
I have absolutely no problem paying a set fee every month for the whole game like I do for my telephone, cable service, internet service, and other forms of entertainment. Would pay your cable company on a per show watched every month? How about NetFlix for each movie you watched? Or GameFly for each game rented?
Sure, there are some MMOs where the cash shop is not too intrusive, yet is still there, asking to be used through purposeful game mechanics. All too often, though, MMOs use the cash shop as a "gate" for content.
I understand your opinion and preference. Please try to understand my own
Your opinion and preference is narrow minded though. And really hard to reason with someone whose sole argument is "my way or the highway".
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Originally posted by azzamasin Your opinion and preference is narrow minded though. And really hard to reason with someone whose sole argument is "my way or the highway".
Why on earth would I play something that does not meet my own preferences? You are mistaking my preference as "the only way for everyone." It is not. By all means, have cash shop MMOs. But does EVERY MMO HAVE to have them? Since they do, it seems to me that *your* preference is the narrow-minded one. It sounds like you do not even want 1, single MMO to have a sub sans cash shop.
Now, you can point to TES:O and Wildstar. JUST because an MMO has a business practice I prefer does not mean it is a good MMO I want to play.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Just going to say. While I remember discussions on theses forums specifically when it was just starting in p2p's. Years ago. Cash shops in general in mmo's could be much, much worse. Mobile gaming. Half the time those games build in ridiculous pay walls that never end. One can spend hundreds easily and make little progress. Don't know how much this adds to the discussion. I think it was inevitable that developers come up with ways to pay the bills and then some as the cost of everything goes up. I don't agree with all of them but it could be much worse like mobile gaming pay-walls. I judge on a case by case basis anymore whether I agree with a payment model or not. What's offered ect.
Comments
It wasn't just EQ, SOE was doing it in SWG if I recall.
Another thing I don't like about cash shop, F2P proponents who are super aggressive and angsty toward players who don't accept their model.
They are always the same aggressive replies.
"STOP PLAYING MMO".."DEVELOPERS HAVE TO EAT!".."IT'S NOT PAY2WIN".."NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO SPEND MONEY!!"
F2P / cash shop players are angsty and aggressive in nature, in your face kind of attitude, just like F2P, buy buy buy, spend money spend money, everythign NOW NOW NOW, buy stuff, level faster, go go go, so aggressive, completely opposite of P2P players.
The games are like the players, constantly haggling you for money, constantly in an aggressive way, trying to nickel and dime you, pretending the game is free, but around every corner there is another way to shake you for money.
They suck more because they never give you as much with the sub as sub games do - there are always one or a couple of things that will still cost extra. Not to mention the gambling boxes most of them have and the amount of cash store currency they typically include with the sub just to get you used to using the shop.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Actually you're right right.
I do remember that being a big point of contention, and one of the main reasons I stopped playing SOE games for a long time.
What makes you think it was ever unacceptable.
I would argue it wasn't in most games before simply because they hadn't really thought of putting their out of game stores into the game or making it accessible in the game.
However I don't see very much difference between an in game store vs paying xx more for extra things in expansion packs or collectors editions. In fact the only difference is packs and collectors are time limited, you are still paying real money for things in game.
Therefore I content that by large gamers have never had a problem with it. Oh people will throw up their arms and say of course they did, then go out and spend money on the collectors edition to get the in game toy.
I don't understand how you would be "fucked"? Let's take for instance Rift, Tera, Aion and also Guild Wars 2: Nothing about the core game has changed. So, how would the cash shop affect you in a negative way? They still give you the option to pay a subscription ( except for GW2 of course ) and usually come with additional perks if you "choose" to patronize their business with faction rep bonus, currency bonus, xp bonus, etc...
Let's take for instance I have a co-worker that swears up and down that WoW raiding is the bomb and invites me to join his raiding guild. I decide to bite the bullet and grab WoD and notice an instant lvl 90 option on the Blizzard store. I'm working full-time and I really don't care for the lvl up experience because xp grind is the same animal in every MMO under the sun. Since me and homeboy used to raid it up in Rift back in the GSB days and we were great as a Tank/Healer combo, I just want to get to raiding ASAP. So I buy the instant lvl 90 to "help" get me there because starting from one is not an option when I have maxed out toons sitting in other games. How does that affect you as a totally separate player most likely in a different server, negatively? The core game play is still the same.
I still have not been able to find an option to pay for +160% situational awareness stat boost in any cash shop. Although, I do believe there are folks who could use an item like that ( lookin at you DPS ). Unless a P2P game sets up a system with a pay wall to content, a cash shop loaded with shiny cosmetic items/boosts should not impact the core of the game an "individual" is playing.
Yeah. SWG had a card game where you bought packs with RL money and sometimes you got item cards that contained ingame items for your character.
At FFXIV's defence, it's cash shop only contain previous unobtainable festival cosmetics, a potion to change char appearance that you get 3 of from veteran rewards anyway and a horse mount that should have been ingame but since all mounts have same speed, it's purely cosmetic.
I'll worry if they keep adding more mounts or game changing stuff but so far it's pretty useless stuff
This added to the fact that people in general are not good at dropping bad habits.
If cash shops and legalized RMT will continue to be the norm as it is right now, I probably will never play an MMO again. If I do play it, will not give a single cent to the developer. MMOs should be about progression and actual game worlds, not soem lobby based cash shop where you spend real money to skip time or gear progression. Is it pay to win? No, probably not by to the standards these days.
But ask your self this, in the modern times. You have a decent job, got money to spend. Time however, you might lack. But you are looking for a game that is rewarding and you want the time you spend in the game to mean something.
With the current norm of "we are not P2W, we just sell things and currency so you can progress/ skip most of our game".
If you are looking for a game that really is, "your game", where you have to invest your time, blood and sweat. Where it matters, true MMORPG players look for a game where what they do matters. Not some game where you can just pay to skip content or progress faster.
If you ever want a MMORPG again that is actually a proper game, not a glorified RMT cash shop, stop giving them your money,
The problem is that companies are better off with cash shops, and losing you (and others) as a customer. The only way that you can change this is to SPEND money, not stop spending (and losing your value). If all the people that were against this were to find a niche game that doesn't have a cash shop, and spend lots of money on it... it would convince the games with a cash shop, that it might be worthwhile to drop it....
May be unacceptable by you .. but certainly not the millions who have bought sparkling ponies in wow.
An MMO charging a sub should be making money. Adding a cash shop just means they want more money. Then, after that is added, their content update decisions are based more on "What can we sell in the cash shop." instead of "What will keep the players playing?"
Tying the 2 together, MMOs reached out to an audience that had no interest in the "artform." Why? To make more money (greed). If The Boston Symphony started to include "Pop Songs" in order to reach out to a younger audience, then they have sold out (greed). Now, playing Frank Zappa Orchestral pieces is a different story
When an artform/entertainment makes their decisions based solely on monetary profit, then they cease to be what they claim to be. There is a reason the term "sell out" got coined (irony?
).
Large company MMOs, as they are now, make their "creative" decisions based on max monetization and formulas, not creative inspiration for the artform. Their "creativity" seems to be reserved to monetization
I will never call mass produced paintings hanging in hotels "Art", though some may call it so. Michael Bey makes films that make money, not art. I now add Peter Jackson to that list because of his butchering of The Hobbit. 3 movies out of a 200+ page children's story? Pure greed there.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I have absolutely no problem paying a set fee every month for the whole game like I do for my telephone, cable service, internet service, and other forms of entertainment. Would pay your cable company on a per show watched every month? How about NetFlix for each movie you watched? Or GameFly for each game rented?
Sure, there are some MMOs where the cash shop is not too intrusive, yet is still there, asking to be used through purposeful game mechanics. All too often, though, MMOs use the cash shop as a "gate" for content.
I understand your opinion and preference. Please try to understand my own
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Or you could......you know....not utilize the cash shop.
As long as they are not restrictive and don't monetize Power then it's fine in my book.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Sure they do. Boston Pops.
As far as "what makes art" well, you can't really say what is art and what is not except for what "you" think of as art. There are galleries in MOMA that would be considered crap by many but obviously "art" by those who choose them to be there.
Just because game developers need to figure out how to get money for a product that is ever more expensive to produce doesn't mean that they don't try to do their best at creating great games and even injecting some "art" (and i don't mean creating art assets) into their work.
As far as dissing Michael Bay, it is important to note that when making "Team America", Trey Parker and Matt Stone wanted to lampoon some of what Michael Bay did. After making it they indicated that they developed huge respect for what he does because they learned exactly how hard it was to pull of some of those shots, and that it wasn't something that was easily done. There is an art to what he does even though one might not recognize it as "high art".
There's always going to be someone who disses what another does, nothing that can be done about that. However, maybe one could look a little deeper and if not liking what someone does they might at least recognize what goes into them doing it and that sometimes a bit of artistry is required, even if it isn't to your taste.
as far as "cash shops" go, I'm not a general fan of them though there was a time when I thought they could have been used to bolster armor and weapons in Lord of the Rings online. The thought that more time could be spent designing halfway decent items if players were willing to pay for them. That however never really happened.
In the end, players want great looking games. Not everyone has to have them (myself included though aesthetics are very important to me) but this forum is proof enough that when a game is mentioned that looks "so 2004" (or earlier) it gets belittled because of animations, "graphics", etc. Well, developers need money to make this stuff happen.
People on this forum like to make developers seem like "Mr Burns", sitting in their castle and thinking of ways to fleece players. I strongly suspect it's a lot more complicated than that and that developers are constantly battling the business side just to do what they love. How many of us would enter into an occupation that many times means you will be out of a job once the project is done?
Not to mention all the crap they have to put up with from demanding players who think it's easy and that they know better.
Cash shops are here because games are expensive. Games are expensive because players demand more and large studios would love to continue to "be in business".
It's unfortunate but there it is.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Your opinion and preference is narrow minded though. And really hard to reason with someone whose sole argument is "my way or the highway".
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Then only a few pay.. Restrictions on F2P accounts make perfect sense. AT least restrictions that govern content access (such as TOR).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Now, you can point to TES:O and Wildstar. JUST because an MMO has a business practice I prefer does not mean it is a good MMO I want to play.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Just going to say. While I remember discussions on theses forums specifically when it was just starting in p2p's. Years ago. Cash shops in general in mmo's could be much, much worse. Mobile gaming. Half the time those games build in ridiculous pay walls that never end. One can spend hundreds easily and make little progress. Don't know how much this adds to the discussion. I think it was inevitable that developers come up with ways to pay the bills and then some as the cost of everything goes up. I don't agree with all of them but it could be much worse like mobile gaming pay-walls. I judge on a case by case basis anymore whether I agree with a payment model or not. What's offered ect.