Originally posted by Bladestrom Uhu, well reading stuff on this forum would be a start, Blizzard design choices have been well discussed, (like them or not) then maybe this thread - are they all 'haters' too? To answer your question about my personal history, the basics are my sig, i have as much right and experience as you to comment.
Haha you think getting your info from this site equals fact nice...
again how about a link? Anyone can say they played 100,000,000 hours in any game.
Hey you can post all you want, the issue you have is you clearly have not played WoD, you state things as facts without any proof except "oh I read it on mmorpg". Feel free to continue to post but be ready to be called out again and again when you try to pass your OPINIONS and things you read on mmorpg as facts.
Originally posted by Bladestrom What are the key characteristics of a mmo co-op, Lobbies?, Queues?, majority of party runs in PUG form? To be fair WOWis a good mmo co-op, and when labelled as such its a good game, and if blizzard invested properly as such I would have nothing to complain about here personally. At the moment the game is a mishmash.
And of your "current games" please explain how those are mmorpgs and WoW Is not...id love to see you explain the differences.
oh btw you DONT PLAY the game you have no clue how it is. You are the only thing that is "mishmash". Keep it up though it's very entertaining.
Designing dungeons is expensive and takes lots of time,
I am so sick of people saying this. For games like Swtor or LOTRO that are F2P and have limited resources i agree, but a game that has revenue of over a billion dollars a year, i rly dont think expense comes into it.
Designing dungeons is expensive and takes lots of time,
I am so sick of people saying this. For games like Swtor or LOTRO that are F2P and have limited resources i agree, but a game that has revenue of over a billion dollars a year, i rly dont think expense comes into it.
My point was that this is how Blizzard wants to think. They want to find the most inexpensive and fast way to make content and still please as many customers as possible. In MOP they introduced scenarios, which they have admit are cheaper and faster to create than dungeons. Now there are garrisons, and while i'm not an expert on this i could imagine they are even cheaper than scenarios to produce.
It's not how much money they make at this point, it's how little they have to put back into production and still maximize profit.
Originally posted by Bladestrom Uhu, well reading stuff on this forum would be a start, Blizzard design choices have been well discussed, (like them or not) then maybe this thread - are they all 'haters' too? To answer your question about my personal history, the basics are my sig, i have as much right and experience as you to comment.
Haha you think getting your info from this site equals fact nice...
again how about a link? Anyone can say they played 100,000,000 hours in any game.
Hey you can post all you want, the issue you have is you clearly have not played WoD, you state things as facts without any proof except "oh I read it on mmorpg". Feel free to continue to post but be ready to be called out again and again when you try to pass your OPINIONS and things you read on mmorpg as facts.
lol is there anyone you argue with that you are not going to demand to see their achievement history, typical wow player - i'm gonna check your achievements! are you going to check the achievements of every person on this thread that agrees with OP? if you want to creep over mine, feel free, the name is a clue.
lol just read - im a mishmash? is that like a noob?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Originally posted by Bladestrom Uhu, well reading stuff on this forum would be a start, Blizzard design choices have been well discussed, (like them or not) then maybe this thread - are they all 'haters' too? To answer your question about my personal history, the basics are my sig, i have as much right and experience as you to comment.
Haha you think getting your info from this site equals fact nice...
again how about a link? Anyone can say they played 100,000,000 hours in any game.
Hey you can post all you want, the issue you have is you clearly have not played WoD, you state things as facts without any proof except "oh I read it on mmorpg". Feel free to continue to post but be ready to be called out again and again when you try to pass your OPINIONS and things you read on mmorpg as facts.
lol is there anyone you argue with that you are not going to demand to see their achievement history, typical wow player - i'm gonna check your achievements! are you going to check the achievements of every person on this thread that agrees with OP? if you want to creep over mine, feel free, the name is a clue.
lol just read - im a mishmash? is that like a noob?
Nope I just ask those who run their mouth about a VIDEO GAME they DONT play.
A mishmash nah not a noob maybe someone who talks about a subject they have no knowledge on. I see you continue to avoid my question about how your current mmorpgs differ from WoW.
Sure it is impossible always to make all happy. There have been changes in past I hated and loved, at the end I have adapted.
Since BC I always had full set of alliance alt before next expansion and few horde, since I think Cata I had all possible alts, since MOP 11 alliance, 11 horde. Never been bored (ok, sometimes ... mainly with hunter and warlock, but not since changes in Cata/MOP), leveled all my alts manually and with great joy.
Before WOD I had 22 alts waiting for launch. Usually have been playing for at least 6 months constantly since release before break. I have been then returning from time to time for few months at least up to next expansion having at the end all alts. I wish to also add I never RAID, my main source of fun is leveling and then 5man.
Well... I enjoyed most 5man with WOTLK, then with changes to Cata they lost me for end game. I might level my horde alts only (and only some of them) with help of 5man dungeons ... but I rarely play otherwise.
And now .... WOD. Despite I agree with OP, I'm not sure if only garrisons - as fun as idea is - are to blame. But fact is while in past I got bored after half year and half alts leveled ... now this has happened after BARELY 1 MONTH(!) AND 4 ALTS! After only 1 month I suddenly lost motivation to log back at all and play. Areas looks like “already seen”. I feel like being back in crippled version of BC for variety. Little difference between areas.
Resubbed to Swtor, then maybe Gw2, ...
If I have to make a list (from top to bottom): WOTLK, close 2nd MOP, Cata, BC, WOD.
For sure will return to WoW but so far this is worst experience ever to me. And for the first time they did more wrong than good. To my taste of course. I want to say maybe it is problem with me and with us unsatisfied with WOD. Who knows, maybe exactly this changes will bring more players. Only time will show. I'm personally sad. :-(
Originally posted by Vutar Have already let my sub run out the xpac was fun for about 2 weeks or so. I am just tired of games that keep telling me I can't play them. So very tired of all the gating that takes place in games today.
Same with me also, 2 weeks in, I quit. You can't do what you want anymore, its all control factor by blizzard, professions are a prime example
Originally posted by Vutar Have already let my sub run out the xpac was fun for about 2 weeks or so. I am just tired of games that keep telling me I can't play them. So very tired of all the gating that takes place in games today.
Same with me also, 2 weeks in, I quit. You can't do what you want anymore, its all control factor by blizzard, professions are a prime example
Same thoughts. Was really fun 1st time running through the quests, 2nd time not so bad as I picked the other outpost building so there was some difference. However the 3rd time makes me want to gouge my eyes out since skipping the zone really isn't an option as I need the followers.
The expansion started off really good, even though it felt more of a single player game than anything but said hey raids will be different and lvl 100 content. However within the 1st 2 weeks of Highmaul I'm already tired of it. What makes matters worse is for a PvEer "endgame" boils down to garrison maintenance while waiting for guild raid night since there is zero meaningful content otherwise for character progression. Crafting is dull as hell with everyone able to do anything with zero time investment or dedication. World "bosses" are nothing but face palming zerg fests.
Sub runs out in mid Jan, have to take a break due to RL moving and starting a new job around that time, doubt will be trying out 6.1 if what they've said about future plans is centered around more of the garrison crap that caters to soloists with zero meaningful world content.
Someone asked for an explanation as to why this game is no longer an RPG and is instead a co-op, or somethng similar.
Traditionally, RPGs put players into a world where exploration, choices, and in multiplayer rpgs, discussion is how a player progressed. For example, in Vanilla, a dungeon like Sunken Temple had a few secrets to it. The altars, the fact that all dragonkin should be killed prior to fighting eranikus, and even the layout of the zone had to be figured out through playing the game. Quest text didn't always give obvious directions for the quests. Attunements didn't always have an obvious explanation on aquisition. Basically, in Vanilla a player either had to explore, make choices, or discuss with other players on how to accomplish goals.
Like any RPG, a player could just use a cheat guide to get around this, but for many dedicated RPG players that was never an option. Since Vanilla, every expansion has reduced these classic RPG features. No more does a player need to explore, quests are indicated on the map for you, kill targets for quests can be seen with a hover over, ground spawns can be seen sparkling from 100 meters away, quests are grouped together for maximun efficiency for each hub. Choices continue to be removed and punishments from bad choices have been nerfed to the point where dying generally costs 1-2 mins of time and a small amount of gold. There is no real danger outside of instances because dying means nothing. In a raid you may run into a lot of danger, but death only costs a small amount of time.
The game has removed everything that I look for in an RPG. Players are hardly even playing a character in game anymore, most players have several characters and classes, some classes can perform 2 roles with the click of a button, gear is just thrown out to every player at every turn. The game is just not at all what I would even consider an RPG outside of it having classes and races. Heck, CoD has classes and the same minimal amount of choice surrounding them. This game is only more in depth than a game like CoD due to the quests, and because the quests are so silly and uninteresting, it is difficult for me to even want to follow the story line anymore.
I could probably write about a dozen more RPG features that are no longer around, or are just ignored because Blizz has given new systems that encourage solo play, or that at least encourage antisocial behavior, but there's no point. I long for a real PvE MMORPG that promotes the old RPG elements of a game. Players today complain about RNG at every turn, yet RPGs have always, since the beginning, been based on randomness. I don't actually blame Blizz for their choices to go this route. They have no incentive to make an interesting game anymore because players prefer the instant gratification.
I came back for WoD because I heard that it was a throwback to the old school, yet, imo, the game is in the worst state it has ever been for the things I like in video games and RPGs in general. The only thing I would be interested in would be Mythic Raids and RBGs, but I couldn't even get myself to play the game long enough for these things to be activated, nor would I feel good about supporting a game that only provides 2 interesting things for me to partake in.
Well OP, I'm glad they installed the menegerie and fishing shack because I never use to do them. The yellow "i" was bothering me so I thought I would take a while to clear it out. After all these years of not playing the pet battles I'm kicking myself. It is very fun and challenging with the pet tamers as opponents.
As far as the rest of the expansion, including the garrison (which is a free bonus full of fun content) I have found this to be the best expansion yet.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Someone asked for an explanation as to why this game is no longer an RPG and is instead a co-op, or somethng similar.
Traditionally, RPGs put players into a world where exploration, choices, and in multiplayer rpgs, discussion is how a player progressed. For example, in Vanilla, a dungeon like Sunken Temple had a few secrets to it. The altars, the fact that all dragonkin should be killed prior to fighting eranikus, and even the layout of the zone had to be figured out through playing the game. Quest text didn't always give obvious directions for the quests. Attunements didn't always have an obvious explanation on aquisition. Basically, in Vanilla a player either had to explore, make choices, or discuss with other players on how to accomplish goals.
Like any RPG, a player could just use a cheat guide to get around this, but for many dedicated RPG players that was never an option. Since Vanilla, every expansion has reduced these classic RPG features. No more does a player need to explore, quests are indicated on the map for you, kill targets for quests can be seen with a hover over, ground spawns can be seen sparkling from 100 meters away, quests are grouped together for maximun efficiency for each hub. Choices continue to be removed and punishments from bad choices have been nerfed to the point where dying generally costs 1-2 mins of time and a small amount of gold. There is no real danger outside of instances because dying means nothing. In a raid you may run into a lot of danger, but death only costs a small amount of time.
The game has removed everything that I look for in an RPG. Players are hardly even playing a character in game anymore, most players have several characters and classes, some classes can perform 2 roles with the click of a button, gear is just thrown out to every player at every turn. The game is just not at all what I would even consider an RPG outside of it having classes and races. Heck, CoD has classes and the same minimal amount of choice surrounding them. This game is only more in depth than a game like CoD due to the quests, and because the quests are so silly and uninteresting, it is difficult for me to even want to follow the story line anymore.
I could probably write about a dozen more RPG features that are no longer around, or are just ignored because Blizz has given new systems that encourage solo play, or that at least encourage antisocial behavior, but there's no point. I long for a real PvE MMORPG that promotes the old RPG elements of a game. Players today complain about RNG at every turn, yet RPGs have always, since the beginning, been based on randomness. I don't actually blame Blizz for their choices to go this route. They have no incentive to make an interesting game anymore because players prefer the instant gratification.
I came back for WoD because I heard that it was a throwback to the old school, yet, imo, the game is in the worst state it has ever been for the things I like in video games and RPGs in general. The only thing I would be interested in would be Mythic Raids and RBGs, but I couldn't even get myself to play the game long enough for these things to be activated, nor would I feel good about supporting a game that only provides 2 interesting things for me to partake in.
I see kind of where you are going with the puzzles and choices, but to me that isn't what an rpg really is. I'm sure we all have different ideas, and I'm not calling you wrong, but to me an rpg is when you assume the role of a character. The puzzles, and traps, and choices can be in an rpg, but thats not what one is. I agree though that more of the old school "Eye of the Beholder" mechanics should be in these kind of games though!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I think both of you describe well the issues with wow. For me I would say that the difference is that in a rpg the content is an integral part of the virtual world in an RPG and that it's something to be optionally discovered. You explore with your avatar (alts destroys the concept of avatar IMO) Now content is attached to hubs or the 'player', content is rated in terms of convenience + rate of power/achieve point gain. It's like the difference between shopping in a farmers market once a week for the pleasure of wandering around to visiting Walmart every day for the food shop.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Im having a blast. I dont mind the dalies. Pvp is so much fun, im skyping with a friend doing bgs together and arena, dungeons and raids, helping eachbother with farming and dalies, riding together till sunset goes down on chopper haha
That's actually a good analogy when I think about it, we like going to Walmart because of the bargains but we never really enjoy the experience, and many appreciate the bargains but hate the experience. many people like things like farmers markets for the pleasure of wandering about - even though it is less efficient, some don't see the point of markets at all and appear to love the Walmart experience (I would argue its not the experience it's the convenience). That's it, WOW is a reflection of this type of convenience optimisation.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Someone asked for an explanation as to why this game is no longer an RPG and is instead a co-op, or somethng similar.
Traditionally, RPGs put players into a world where exploration, choices, and in multiplayer rpgs, discussion is how a player progressed. For example, in Vanilla, a dungeon like Sunken Temple had a few secrets to it. The altars, the fact that all dragonkin should be killed prior to fighting eranikus, and even the layout of the zone had to be figured out through playing the game. Quest text didn't always give obvious directions for the quests. Attunements didn't always have an obvious explanation on aquisition. Basically, in Vanilla a player either had to explore, make choices, or discuss with other players on how to accomplish goals. Hmm no secrets in WoD dungeons? Thats weird how about the Followers like Crowman and LEEROY? I believe that would fall right into line with what you say "traditionally qualifies as RPG".
Like any RPG, a player could just use a cheat guide to get around this, but for many dedicated RPG players that was never an option. Since Vanilla, every expansion has reduced these classic RPG features. No more does a player need to explore, quests are indicated on the map for you, kill targets for quests can be seen with a hover over, ground spawns can be seen sparkling from 100 meters away, quests are grouped together for maximun efficiency for each hub. Choices continue to be removed and punishments from bad choices have been nerfed to the point where dying generally costs 1-2 mins of time and a small amount of gold. There is no real danger outside of instances because dying means nothing. In a raid you may run into a lot of danger, but death only costs a small amount of time. In WoD there are a ton of quest off the path, you have bonus quest, you have treasures and Rares, as for death well that would be an example for every MMO out today...so yep WoW still standing tall as an MMORPG as two rounds.
The game has removed everything that I look for in an RPG. Players are hardly even playing a character in game anymore, most players have several characters and classes, some classes can perform 2 roles with the click of a button, gear is just thrown out to every player at every turn. The game is just not at all what I would even consider an RPG outside of it having classes and races. Heck, CoD has classes and the same minimal amount of choice surrounding them. This game is only more in depth than a game like CoD due to the quests, and because the quests are so silly and uninteresting, it is difficult for me to even want to follow the story line anymore. Please see the RED...your opinion by no means equals facts....
I could probably write about a dozen more RPG features that are no longer around, or are just ignored because Blizz has given new systems that encourage solo play, or that at least encourage antisocial behavior, but there's no point. I long for a real PvE MMORPG that promotes the old RPG elements of a game. Players today complain about RNG at every turn, yet RPGs have always, since the beginning, been based on randomness. I don't actually blame Blizz for their choices to go this route. They have no incentive to make an interesting game anymore because players prefer the instant gratification. This is based on how YOU play. Every I TURN ON WOW I am playing with OTHER PEOPLE, I very rarely EVER play SOLO. If people CHOOSE to play WoW SOLO that is THEIR ISSUE NOT the games.
I came back for WoD because I heard that it was a throwback to the old school, yet, imo, the game is in the worst state it has ever been for the things I like in video games and RPGs in general. The only thing I would be interested in would be Mythic Raids and RBGs, but I couldn't even get myself to play the game long enough for these things to be activated, nor would I feel good about supporting a game that only provides 2 interesting things for me to partake in. I doubt you even got into a LFR let alone Mysthic raids.
But you attempted to say why WoW is not an RPG well you failed in the attempted.
I liked the garrisons. I liked the quest storyline. I liked revisiting Draenor/Outland. What absolutely killed the expansion for me though is the horrid abomination that is the expansion's itemization.
Crafted items have randomized stats. Crafted items that use mats that are time locked. Crafted items that cost more time locked crafting items if you want to do another random reroll to get the stats you want.
Remember jewelcrafting? Apparently Blizzard doesn't, as you get a random socket on gear occassionally. Crafted gear doesn't have any. I haven't seen any raid drops that have any, either.
Remember when enchanting was useful? Like socketing jewels, enchanting seems to be an afterthought, as only a few item types have enchants.
The armor designs, from the starter greens to the raid drops, are atrocious. I'm not sure where Blizzard's graphic talent went, but apparently they're too busy working on trailers and cutscenes to design any decent armor. Defender Illona, one of your bodyguard followers, has great looking armor....from a few expansions ago.
The above is why my account is currently unsubbed, though I do have a few days left.
its a symptom of blizzard failure to fix a broken progression system where runaway power progression makes balancing impossible. In their pathetic to find a cheap solution they have reduced game complexity in an already simplified system (gems etc)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Seeing the quote in the previous post, I found another part of the OP to comment...
Originally posted by mark2123
When I think back to when WoW came out, it took an age to get to the level cap and that game costs the same as the expansions do now.
Ages? I bought the game at its release November 23, 2004, beginning January 2005 I was farming the max level dungeons to get ready for raiding.
There was a whole game of things to do, level 1-60; lots and lots of zones and a wide variety of stuff.
There's a metric ton more things to do in WoW nowadays than there was in 2004 at release.
Nostalgia often blurrs the reality.
That is deceptive... because you see, in today's WoW, you are told what to do whereas in vanilla WoW, you are not.
Example: Grinding rep with the Bloodsail Buccaneers was not as easy nor was it an achievement back then. You had to just discover it on your own.
So you see, there were many things to do in vanilla WoW that were later turned into achievements in current WoW. Why? Because players seemed to have fun creating their own fun. Sort of hard to do the same thing today since EVERYTHING is an achievement. You have a laundry list to follow built right into the game with a very high success rate for limited time of effort. Back in the day, you were considered nuts to do some of these things because there was no reward for doing so other than your own sick pleasure.
There are many more examples that one can find... modern WoW just makes it easier to do things... it does not necessarily give you more things to do. There is a big difference between advertising every little detail about everything one can do in game and merely tossing them into the world and saying, "explore!"
That's the real difference between vanilla WoW and modern WoW. Has nothing to do with nostalgia, has everything to do with game design.
So basically, you are saying that back in Vanilla, there was much less to do but it was made harder to find, and also that most of it was completely pointless, while nowadays, there's much more to do even if easier to find, and there's more things to do that actually make sense.
Thanks for proving me right.
I never said that, not ONCE. I said that there was a lot of things to do in vanilla WoW, only it wasn't advertised to you. And yes, it was harder and took longer and was pointless other than for your own sick enjoyment of doing it. Ever wonder how the achievement Insane in the Membrane came about? Players came up with it because they were actually grinding rep with pointless factions just to see if they could do it and to see if there was something they would get for doing it. Back in the day. Blizzard didn't expect players to grind these factions but realized a cult of players within the game actually did. Now they bastardized it to death from it's original inception, but IF you actually did it (before it was even an achievement), it was quite a feat to do.
I will spell it out for you this time... in modern WoW, you KNOW that there are things to do because there is a list of achievements associated with it. Whether you know how to do it or not is not the point. The point is, YOU did not come up with the idea to do them, BLIZZARD laid out breadcrumbs for you to lure you into doing it. There was a lot to do in vanilla WoW... far more than what was identified on the outside of the box when you bought it. It was player generated ideas that became the achievement system of today. It was not even Blizzard's intention that players do such things, they didn't even know players would want to. So to suggest that there is MORE to do in modern WoW compared to vanilla WoW is a fallacy. Just because you have pages of achievements to do doesn't mean all of those things couldn't have been done without said laundry list... however, you would assume that there is less to do because said list wasn't given to you.
Modern WoW is easier, no doubt about it, more stuff to do, not likely. Just like phasing makes the world seem more populated than it is, the achievement system makes it seem like there is more things to do... it's all an illusion.
Originally posted by Bladestrom its a symptom of blizzard failure to fix a broken progression system where runaway power progression makes balancing impossible. In their pathetic to find a cheap solution they have reduced game complexity in an already simplified system (gems etc)
Hmm you dont even play the game but pretend to act like you know what your talking about...Boy they must have hurt you pretty bad to have this much hate where you need to spam every thread about a VIDEO GAME YOU DONT PLAY and cannot move on with your life....
i said Blue gear, not blue raid gear, read again son.
'if you went into a bg in raid gear you are an idiot.' thats Blizzard's new WOD gear change for PVE/PVP balancing system. I know that and I don't play WOD, you play WOD and you don't?
BTW i'm not 'clueless', i've probably got more mmoRPG hours under my belt than you have I would bet and I design software in my profession - all meaningless ofc in this forum, but you are obsessed with personal facts to prove your points so there you go. People are entities to opinions you do not like and the posts that you cant handle are not all lies lies lies.
I will say it again, WOW's excessive power curve fucks up its own balancing constantly, its fundamentally flawed when you have to reduce choice and apply a squish (that's known as a fudge btw)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
For some reason I'll never understand I did have hope that WoD would revive WoW for me. I enjoyed leveling to an extend and the garrison was fun at first, but it's true that after a while you start to see through the facade and realize just how simple the game really is. There is nothing wrong with that, if you like simple then WoW is for you, but I like deeper gameplay or at least if it's not deep and complex, I prefer that the combat is fun (WoW's isn't for me)
Please visit my youtube channel for some H1Z1/DayZ casual roleplay videos!
Originally posted by svandy For some reason I'll never understand I did have hope that WoD would revive WoW for me. I enjoyed leveling to an extend and the garrison was fun at first, but it's true that after a while you start to see through the facade and realize just how simple the game really is. There is nothing wrong with that, if you like simple then WoW is for you, but I like deeper gameplay or at least if it's not deep and complex, I prefer that the combat is fun (WoW's isn't for me)
careful, they may ask for an achievement check before you can express an opinion.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Comments
Haha you think getting your info from this site equals fact nice...
again how about a link? Anyone can say they played 100,000,000 hours in any game.
Hey you can post all you want, the issue you have is you clearly have not played WoD, you state things as facts without any proof except "oh I read it on mmorpg". Feel free to continue to post but be ready to be called out again and again when you try to pass your OPINIONS and things you read on mmorpg as facts.
And of your "current games" please explain how those are mmorpgs and WoW Is not...id love to see you explain the differences.
oh btw you DONT PLAY the game you have no clue how it is. You are the only thing that is "mishmash". Keep it up though it's very entertaining.
I am so sick of people saying this. For games like Swtor or LOTRO that are F2P and have limited resources i agree, but a game that has revenue of over a billion dollars a year, i rly dont think expense comes into it.
My point was that this is how Blizzard wants to think. They want to find the most inexpensive and fast way to make content and still please as many customers as possible. In MOP they introduced scenarios, which they have admit are cheaper and faster to create than dungeons. Now there are garrisons, and while i'm not an expert on this i could imagine they are even cheaper than scenarios to produce.
It's not how much money they make at this point, it's how little they have to put back into production and still maximize profit.
lol is there anyone you argue with that you are not going to demand to see their achievement history, typical wow player - i'm gonna check your achievements! are you going to check the achievements of every person on this thread that agrees with OP? if you want to creep over mine, feel free, the name is a clue.
lol just read - im a mishmash? is that like a noob?
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Nope I just ask those who run their mouth about a VIDEO GAME they DONT play.
A mishmash nah not a noob maybe someone who talks about a subject they have no knowledge on. I see you continue to avoid my question about how your current mmorpgs differ from WoW.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Agree fully with OP.
Sure it is impossible always to make all happy. There have been changes in past I hated and loved, at the end I have adapted.
Since BC I always had full set of alliance alt before next expansion and few horde, since I think Cata I had all possible alts, since MOP 11 alliance, 11 horde. Never been bored (ok, sometimes ... mainly with hunter and warlock, but not since changes in Cata/MOP), leveled all my alts manually and with great joy.
Before WOD I had 22 alts waiting for launch. Usually have been playing for at least 6 months constantly since release before break. I have been then returning from time to time for few months at least up to next expansion having at the end all alts. I wish to also add I never RAID, my main source of fun is leveling and then 5man.
Well... I enjoyed most 5man with WOTLK, then with changes to Cata they lost me for end game. I might level my horde alts only (and only some of them) with help of 5man dungeons ... but I rarely play otherwise.
And now .... WOD. Despite I agree with OP, I'm not sure if only garrisons - as fun as idea is - are to blame. But fact is while in past I got bored after half year and half alts leveled ... now this has happened after BARELY 1 MONTH(!) AND 4 ALTS! After only 1 month I suddenly lost motivation to log back at all and play. Areas looks like “already seen”. I feel like being back in crippled version of BC for variety. Little difference between areas.
Resubbed to Swtor, then maybe Gw2, ...
If I have to make a list (from top to bottom): WOTLK, close 2nd MOP, Cata, BC, WOD.
For sure will return to WoW but so far this is worst experience ever to me. And for the first time they did more wrong than good. To my taste of course. I want to say maybe it is problem with me and with us unsatisfied with WOD. Who knows, maybe exactly this changes will bring more players. Only time will show. I'm personally sad. :-(
Same with me also, 2 weeks in, I quit. You can't do what you want anymore, its all control factor by blizzard, professions are a prime example
Same thoughts. Was really fun 1st time running through the quests, 2nd time not so bad as I picked the other outpost building so there was some difference. However the 3rd time makes me want to gouge my eyes out since skipping the zone really isn't an option as I need the followers.
The expansion started off really good, even though it felt more of a single player game than anything but said hey raids will be different and lvl 100 content. However within the 1st 2 weeks of Highmaul I'm already tired of it. What makes matters worse is for a PvEer "endgame" boils down to garrison maintenance while waiting for guild raid night since there is zero meaningful content otherwise for character progression. Crafting is dull as hell with everyone able to do anything with zero time investment or dedication. World "bosses" are nothing but face palming zerg fests.
Sub runs out in mid Jan, have to take a break due to RL moving and starting a new job around that time, doubt will be trying out 6.1 if what they've said about future plans is centered around more of the garrison crap that caters to soloists with zero meaningful world content.
Someone asked for an explanation as to why this game is no longer an RPG and is instead a co-op, or somethng similar.
Traditionally, RPGs put players into a world where exploration, choices, and in multiplayer rpgs, discussion is how a player progressed. For example, in Vanilla, a dungeon like Sunken Temple had a few secrets to it. The altars, the fact that all dragonkin should be killed prior to fighting eranikus, and even the layout of the zone had to be figured out through playing the game. Quest text didn't always give obvious directions for the quests. Attunements didn't always have an obvious explanation on aquisition. Basically, in Vanilla a player either had to explore, make choices, or discuss with other players on how to accomplish goals.
Like any RPG, a player could just use a cheat guide to get around this, but for many dedicated RPG players that was never an option. Since Vanilla, every expansion has reduced these classic RPG features. No more does a player need to explore, quests are indicated on the map for you, kill targets for quests can be seen with a hover over, ground spawns can be seen sparkling from 100 meters away, quests are grouped together for maximun efficiency for each hub. Choices continue to be removed and punishments from bad choices have been nerfed to the point where dying generally costs 1-2 mins of time and a small amount of gold. There is no real danger outside of instances because dying means nothing. In a raid you may run into a lot of danger, but death only costs a small amount of time.
The game has removed everything that I look for in an RPG. Players are hardly even playing a character in game anymore, most players have several characters and classes, some classes can perform 2 roles with the click of a button, gear is just thrown out to every player at every turn. The game is just not at all what I would even consider an RPG outside of it having classes and races. Heck, CoD has classes and the same minimal amount of choice surrounding them. This game is only more in depth than a game like CoD due to the quests, and because the quests are so silly and uninteresting, it is difficult for me to even want to follow the story line anymore.
I could probably write about a dozen more RPG features that are no longer around, or are just ignored because Blizz has given new systems that encourage solo play, or that at least encourage antisocial behavior, but there's no point. I long for a real PvE MMORPG that promotes the old RPG elements of a game. Players today complain about RNG at every turn, yet RPGs have always, since the beginning, been based on randomness. I don't actually blame Blizz for their choices to go this route. They have no incentive to make an interesting game anymore because players prefer the instant gratification.
I came back for WoD because I heard that it was a throwback to the old school, yet, imo, the game is in the worst state it has ever been for the things I like in video games and RPGs in general. The only thing I would be interested in would be Mythic Raids and RBGs, but I couldn't even get myself to play the game long enough for these things to be activated, nor would I feel good about supporting a game that only provides 2 interesting things for me to partake in.
Well OP, I'm glad they installed the menegerie and fishing shack because I never use to do them. The yellow "i" was bothering me so I thought I would take a while to clear it out. After all these years of not playing the pet battles I'm kicking myself. It is very fun and challenging with the pet tamers as opponents.
As far as the rest of the expansion, including the garrison (which is a free bonus full of fun content) I have found this to be the best expansion yet.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I see kind of where you are going with the puzzles and choices, but to me that isn't what an rpg really is. I'm sure we all have different ideas, and I'm not calling you wrong, but to me an rpg is when you assume the role of a character. The puzzles, and traps, and choices can be in an rpg, but thats not what one is. I agree though that more of the old school "Eye of the Beholder" mechanics should be in these kind of games though!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
But you attempted to say why WoW is not an RPG well you failed in the attempted.
I liked the garrisons. I liked the quest storyline. I liked revisiting Draenor/Outland. What absolutely killed the expansion for me though is the horrid abomination that is the expansion's itemization.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
I never said that, not ONCE. I said that there was a lot of things to do in vanilla WoW, only it wasn't advertised to you. And yes, it was harder and took longer and was pointless other than for your own sick enjoyment of doing it. Ever wonder how the achievement Insane in the Membrane came about? Players came up with it because they were actually grinding rep with pointless factions just to see if they could do it and to see if there was something they would get for doing it. Back in the day. Blizzard didn't expect players to grind these factions but realized a cult of players within the game actually did. Now they bastardized it to death from it's original inception, but IF you actually did it (before it was even an achievement), it was quite a feat to do.
I will spell it out for you this time... in modern WoW, you KNOW that there are things to do because there is a list of achievements associated with it. Whether you know how to do it or not is not the point. The point is, YOU did not come up with the idea to do them, BLIZZARD laid out breadcrumbs for you to lure you into doing it. There was a lot to do in vanilla WoW... far more than what was identified on the outside of the box when you bought it. It was player generated ideas that became the achievement system of today. It was not even Blizzard's intention that players do such things, they didn't even know players would want to. So to suggest that there is MORE to do in modern WoW compared to vanilla WoW is a fallacy. Just because you have pages of achievements to do doesn't mean all of those things couldn't have been done without said laundry list... however, you would assume that there is less to do because said list wasn't given to you.
Modern WoW is easier, no doubt about it, more stuff to do, not likely. Just like phasing makes the world seem more populated than it is, the achievement system makes it seem like there is more things to do... it's all an illusion.
Hmm you dont even play the game but pretend to act like you know what your talking about...Boy they must have hurt you pretty bad to have this much hate where you need to spam every thread about a VIDEO GAME YOU DONT PLAY and cannot move on with your life....
i said Blue gear, not blue raid gear, read again son.
'if you went into a bg in raid gear you are an idiot.' thats Blizzard's new WOD gear change for PVE/PVP balancing system. I know that and I don't play WOD, you play WOD and you don't?
BTW i'm not 'clueless', i've probably got more mmoRPG hours under my belt than you have I would bet and I design software in my profession - all meaningless ofc in this forum, but you are obsessed with personal facts to prove your points so there you go. People are entities to opinions you do not like and the posts that you cant handle are not all lies lies lies.
I will say it again, WOW's excessive power curve fucks up its own balancing constantly, its fundamentally flawed when you have to reduce choice and apply a squish (that's known as a fudge btw)
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Please visit my youtube channel for some H1Z1/DayZ casual roleplay videos!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrQoK5VZlwBBzpsksmXtjMQ
careful, they may ask for an achievement check before you can express an opinion.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D