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[Column] Elder Scrolls Online: Understanding Champion Points
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
At the end of December Zenimax announced what players are going to receive when the champion system is released, 30 champion points. If you had at least one character veteran rank 1 or higher you’d receive 30 champion points when 1.6 goes live. It doesn’t matter if you’ve spent the last 9 months playing the same veteran 14 character, or even had eight veteran rank 14 characters, you’d still receive 30 champion points. As you can see there is a major flaw in this, putting players who’ve progressed further through the game on the same level as someone who is only veteran rank 1 isn’t a fair system. It makes those level capped players feel like their time spent is ultimately being erased.
Read more of Ryan Getchell's Elder Scrolls Online: Understanding Champion Points.
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Comments
It was a good reaction to the community anger and a good change.
A flat amount of 30 was just not a very good idea. That they came up with it around the time when Christmas party season was in full swing might explain why they thought it was.
0-70 depending on how much beyond level 50 you have played with one or more characters is much better even if it's still just a token acknowledgement of player achievement, And I say "token" because it is still a tiny number when you consider that the system is now supposed to have a 3,000 CP cap. 70 out of 3,000 is just 2.3% of the max number... pretty low for a VR14 who is currently at 100% of post-50 "leveling."
Not saying they should get 3,000 since one of the reasons for the change is to give level-cap players a continuous gain for their efforts for a long period of time (at least until an Xpac comes out and the level cap gets increased.) but still, 70/3000 is pretty stingy.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The "elephant in the room" is the impending console launch.
Could it be that console players will be playing on the same servers as the PC players ? In that case, it would be in ZOS's best interest to make the catch-up for the console players as short as possible.
It may upset a few PC players, but I'd imagine that ZOS are expecting to sell at least twice as many copies to console players as they did to PC players. There are already suspicions that ZOS will change the payment methods to accommodate the console crowd. Further "accommodations" would not be surprising in the least.
It would be nice if they were all on the same server but I thought MS in particular frowns on that.
In any event we'll know more soon. Kano was predicting a big announcement this week. I think next week at PAX South would make more sense.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Being slaughtered in Cyrodill as a new lvl 50 by people who have 1200 CP isnt fun. Neither is feeling like you suck in trials compared to those who ground it out.
It seems like a great system for those who are currently playing, but it seems like one of those "daunting grinds" that turns away new players when they see how much work they have to do to stay competitive.
I dont know how I feel about this. I played the game for 1-2 months this fall, got one lvl 50(vr1) character, with another one almost at max level, and a few in the 20s. Stopped for WoD...
I liked the idea of getting 30 points right off the bat, but now it seems that won't happen for just a VR1 toon. Correct? That kind of sucks.
As long as these increases and all aren't game changing where someone with 50 points is leaps beyond someone with 15.
As I understand it, the % passive increases form the CP system are small and they only become something once you've put a lot of points into one of them. And I remember hearing that you can't allocate all of them in one skill but need to do it on a rotational basis like the D3 Paragon system does it.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
21 year MMO veteran
PvP Raid Leader
Lover of The Witcher & CD Projekt Red
It works for TSW and EVE because more points means more versatility not more power. It's pretty easy for a new TSW or EVE player to catch up with existing players in a targeted manner. It remains to be seen if ESO plays out the same or not.
"It doesn’t matter if you’ve spent the last 9 months playing the same veteran 14 character, or even had eight veteran rank 14 characters, you’d still receive 30 champion points. As you can see there is a major flaw in this, putting players who’ve progressed further through the game on the same level as someone who is only veteran rank 1 isn’t a fair system."
This is why pvp in mmo's is had been and always will be a joke. Stop crying because you couldnt "buy to win with free time" play the game stfu stop crutching on inbalance to cover up for your lack of skill.
It's about more than PVP you know? It's also about treating those players who stuck out this transition with some respect. They did outright lie about counting everything players do at vet ranks and giving you the points. One way to look at it is they realized some people would be capped as soon as the Champion system went live and they decided it wasn't as good a idea as it first sounded but another more cynical way to look at it is they lied so they could hold those subs during the transition period based on the false premise that people where progressing when really they where not.
Either way they should do something for the active players all these months and I am not even one of them. I have a Vet 4 toon I abandoned many months ago when I let my 3 month sub expire from launch.70 points is fine. More than enough imo. I look forward to the steady AA horizontal progression. I would hate to have 300 points when it launches, then just fill in the dots and be done lol.
I do understand the quest grinders point of view too. They may have done every quest in the game so when CS launches their options will be limited compared to someone like me who hates questing and has barley done any of them.
For them they will have public dungeon, delves, dungeons, trails, and Cyrodiil. I'll have all of those plus a ton of quest if I so choose. I'm in no hurry to try and "complete" the thing. I most likely wont change my play style at all. I'll just enjoy the points when I get them.
Plus, remember that guy with 1,000 points probably didn't put it all in one tree. That's part of the rrason for diminishing returns. They want people to have more diversity and choice and not just feel like they gotta beef up their main stats until it's maxed then move on. It's pretty clever, on paper at least.
This conversion seems fairer. It's impossible please EVERYBODY, ALL the time.
I think it is funny that those that have multiple VR14 is the one that whine most serious everyone that is play ESO have know about this system for months that it shoud be implant to the game and still the keep lvl more char VR 14 so what this whine are ask for more CP from start so what is point of get max CP amount from start there is no point to play after that.
ZoS say everyone would get 30 CP so everyone would be on same page but now the game will still be unbalance for those how have VR14 will get 70 CP from start and the still think it is unfair i think those who whine about CP are basically lazy for most who have multiple VR14 go to same spot and kill same mobs over and over again so yeah right the have really put in effort lvl up multiple VR14 ^^
You sound like someone whose idea of balancing is to nerf everyone who has played for 10 months down to level of a noob that starts today. And I bet you don't even see the selfishness in that attitude.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
But thats what you still dont understand. Those 30 points wont put a V14 on the same level as a V1 character. How could you possibly think that? V14s will still have better gear, weapons etc so the gap between them and lower level chars will still stay the same. Thats what makes them stronger than a V1, not the name. Not to mention that when 1.6 goes live veteran ranks wont be even removed. Players who just reached V14 have no right to complain about anything. They can only complain about their time post level V14 but like i said champion system or not they would still play the game post V14 because they liked it not because they thought they would get more points than others. And they were complaining because they wanted to be rewarded for their time on the game and now they will get just 70 points which are not even close to how many they should get yet somehow now they seem to feel rewarded. How could they possibly feel rewarded with 70 points? If their problem was really that they are not getting the points they deserve they should still complain. But no, they dont feel rewarded. The only reason they are not still complaining is because they know that if they were to be rewarded with the points they deserve (500+) the game would be completely imbalanced. So basically they were complaining for nothing. They were complaining because its in human nature to complain about everything whether we are right or wrong.
No one knows how VR14 gear will be handled when the VR ranks go away since the gradual gear progression form VR1 to VR14 makes no sense at all when everything is level 50. Either the lower VR gear will be boosted, the higher gear nerfed or a combination of the two.
And of course the current imbalance will remain until the VR levels are totally gone. You're focusing just on the temporary balance when both systems are there together which, by the way, I'm not a fan of at all - there should be a clean break. I don't really care about that transient period of time at all.
I'm talking about the eventual outcome of a CP only system. Where people who have achieved more will be brought down to the same level of those who have achieved less. That would amount to a total reboot of the balance which, of course, newer low level players are not concerned about. But is that fair to someone who worked to achieve a certain level of power to have their earned advantage wiped out?
It's hardly different than if WOW decided tomorrow they don't want players spread from 1-100 and just brought down everyone over 60 down to 60. Level 60's could care less but how do you think the level 100s would feel?
If you're seeing the issue as veteran players wanting to be compensated for time spent in game, you're misunderstanding the issue. It's about power earned in a game that was always and will still be about progressing from character weakness to power.
They're not changing the game to remove levels or character progression. They are simply replacing one system of post-50 advancement with another one. The issue and what they need to work on is finding the "sweet spot" so that current VR14 players continue to have some sense of the extra power they've earned duplicated in the new system.
I'm not saying that it should be equal to the current difference between a geared VR14 and brand new VR1 since, obviously, one of the main reasons for going to this system is that the balance was getting out of hand. They do want to flatten it but a 70 CP difference is so meaningless that it goes well beyond flattening and into outrageously nerfing territory.
Just think it through... sooner or later after the VR system goes and it's only CPs that differentiate post 50 relative power, don't you think there will be a time with people running around with level 50 + 2,000 CPs and some with level 50 + 1 CP? That will be a significant difference that could well be close, depending on how powerful they make those passives, to what we currently have between VR14s and VR1s... so why insist that the players who currently enjoy that advantage be nerfed way down when it's just going to happen again in a few months?
And BTW, I'm not even VR14 myself - my highest is VR7. I have no personal stake in this swicth. It just still seems to me that VR14s are getting the shaft in the transition.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I stopped playing TESO a while back never made VR1.
But this is an excellent example of something that has become more and more obvious about MMOs over the years.
There are going two reasons players do dungeons, grinding, dailies etc at level cap:
1) Its fun, fresh and exciting
or
2) To increase your toon's power relative to content and other players.
As MMOs have developed 2 has become a less and less valid reason, hundreds of hours of work for advantage can we wiped away. It is there in all MMOs to a degree (less so in games like EVE more so in games like Wow).
I am unsure if this is a good or bad thing but it point players to one very clear lesson:
If its not fun right then now leave, player another game don't grind and strive for development more etc. Hours spent doing anything you are not enjoying are a waste of time in a game. If you going to grind something then grind your RL job for $ in the bank.
Most people have learnt this lesson a long while ago and It makes me wonder if that is the reason MMOs are have trouble keeping long term subscribers these days.