Its sounds like you might be so far removed from the concept of a level playing field for one fee (a sub game) that you have no idea what your even saying at this point. Unless you are referring to everyone paying as in paying a sub, but you were too vague in your statement for me to know.
The more you spend on anything that helps character development in any way the greater advantage you have. This is not debatable and why I don't touch F2P games.
I haven't spent a dime and having a blast with this game. It's definitely not pay to win...since there's nothing to really win at. Someday I hope people will learn that MMOs have no winning moment. I mean you win everytime you kill a monster, everytime you kill a boss, everytime you get some loot. That's the only winning you get in MMOs, and really nothing other than some super loots that let you kill super easy. They aren't selling gear, and even though they sell gold, there really isn't much reason to buy gold. Most of the items you can buy are things like dances and emotes, bags, xp and drop boosters, which really don't make that big of a difference anyways.
I played in beta and they gave you free points back then to check out the shop and make sure it works and stuff, and I knew then that this was a payment model I could like. Even though I normally hate F2P games, this game seems to not turn you into a 2nd class citizen if you don't buy something.
The only difference I've noticed between paying and not is you might have to run a dungeon one more time than someone who pays for a drop potion. You have to run it 5-6 times with a potion, or 6-7 times without, that's not big deal for me. And that's if you want a full set of gear, if not, you don't even have to run the dungeons hehe
I don't think it's P2W at all - however I do think it's one of the most boring grindfests I've played in years. For the first 10 levels or so it's pretty fun, but it only takes till between levels 15-20 before it hits you and it hits HARD.
I would be completely happy if the game didn't even have a F2P option myself, I would play it if it was subscription only. I am willing to pay money for content.
What I am not willing to pay for are things such as increased XP or money rates to advance faster than others.
The system Eldevin uses is precisely a pay-to-win system. The subscribers don't pay their sub because they get more content that way after seeing the free side of the game, they pay it to make their characters more powerful faster. And this is where my problem lies with the model Eldevin uses: I would personally not play a game with a system like this in place.
It is still not a P2W system
You can dislike how they set it up as much as you want. But its still not a P2W system.
You pay to advance faster than others. This is precisely what pay-to-win is, and I cannot see what you think pay-to-win means if you don't consider the current system to be exactly that.
Wouldn't they also serve a purpose for those with less time to play to catch up to friends that play more? You seem to be focusing too much thought into how this is bad, and little on why it's good.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
LOL- I hate "F2P" and generally think 90-95% of the "F2P" games are P2W.
I came here expecting to agree with the Op and express my opinion yet again on how this is ruining the hobby- Then I saw the payment model...
I know very little about this game nor do I intend to play it- But the payment model looks damn fair imho. I STILL prefer a straight sub based game but this isnt a bad way to go. One of the better payment models I have seen outside of a sub for everything.
I hate F2P but I also give credit where credit is due.
I usually avoid p2p games, (due to bots and gold sellers) I will always prefer sub.
Having said that , I have played the game for approximately 8 hours.
My first impressions are as follows.
The lore seems well thought out and exist
Seems to be a lot of content, not quite sure.
Adequate population. (f2p locusts/tourist? Time will tell)
Full screen is not really full screen. (please correct me if I am wrong)
Limited camera options. (I would like to be able to see further in front of my toon )
Clunky controls. ( I would have preferred WASD)
No interactive highlight button. (TAB would have been great for this function) I really don't see the need for tab targeting as the combat is quite slow.
Cash Shop icon prominent, but not very intrusive. (They could get rid of the 15 second highlight in the icon. Don't think it's necessary)
The economy seems vibrant.
These are just my observations from playing for a few hours.
I will continue to explore/play this game as I find it interesting/fun .
Thanks to the OP for bringinning this game to my attention.
I feel bad for the OP He / She has no Clue what P2W is.. I currently play 5 different online games. Every game I play has XP boost potions, Loot boosters, Kill count boosters.. Depends on what mood I am in as to whether I use them.. Eldevin is a great game.. HCS is one company that does listen to what the players have to say.. They may not always do every thing the players want but they ask for Feed Back... The Eldevin team has plans to make some good improvements.. Nothing gets done over night.. I remember way back when HSC first started talking about Eldevin.. That was about 5 years ago I know many people that have waited that long Myself included... I think it was well worth the Wait....
increased money gain could be negative depending on how much you can gain without paying for the boost or subscribing.
If you can easily sell materials in an auction house and are not limited by a currency cap as a free player the there should be no problem with buying that boost.
As for exp boost. That has never been, and will never be a P2W thing. You and I are not playing together so we dont need to level at the same pace. I dont care if you hit max level in one day, i will hit max level in months of playing and if i want to level faster ill get a boost and save maybe a few days or weeks of grinding (still taking long to hit max level because even with a boost i wont grind mindlessly). I dont see the problem with that.
So I played through the first phase of the Eldevin beta and quickly grew to like the game. From a game-play point of view, Eldevin looks really promising, offering traditional browser MMORPG elements with modern features such as action bars and quest-based leveling. Before the end of the beta, while testing the game and gathering information, I somehow always came to ignore one very important thing: the payment model. Only after the first phase of the beta ended did I come to wonder what type of a model was the game going to use, and so I looked up the right thread on the forums, where I found this: Eldevin is a free to play game. Players can enjoy the game for free and the experience can be further enhanced by becoming a subscriber or with micro-transactions through our in-game store. You will be able to play through the entire game to the maximum level, access all areas, quests, crafting and events. You'll be able to experience the epic story, participate in all the group dungeons and engage in unlimited PvP (battlegrounds, arena and optional open world PvP areas)! If you wish to support the game by becoming a subscriber (£4.99/5.99/$7.49 per month) you will gain the supporter buff (+25% all experience and gold gains) which will be applied continually throughout your subscription period to all characters on your account. Additionally this will grant you 350 Bound Eldevin points per month, with a bonus increase of 25 per month of continuous subscription (up to a max of 1000 points per month). The premium shop will sell potions that improve experience gain, convenience items, vanity gear, emotes, dances, pets and additional storage. We will not be selling crafted items, gear or gold in the premium shop. All purchases in the premium shop require Eldevin Points, which can be bought at a rate of $1 per 100 Eldevin Points. These points will be unbound, and can be traded freely with other players. We also plan to add ways for players to earn Eldevin Points without making any purchases.
Now this information is extremely essential for people interested in the payment model the game uses, and after reading this, I quickly made my decision: I probably wouldn't be playing this game.
I am completely fine with sub fees, I am willing to pay money for content (expansion packs). But I am not willing to pay for increased drops/experience in a world where I compete in XP gains/the economy with the non-subscription players. I am also not willing to play a game that sells useful items (other than vanity) for real money.
I think the F2P side and the P2P side should be kept separate, on different servers, much like another browser game, RuneScape, did it. And essentially Hunted Cow Studios' decision to take the P2W route made my decision of not playing this game.
Its a shame, it really is, that the P2W model ruins otherwise promising games. Does anyone else feel the same in this case?
A pay too win game is uncharted waters online. When you pay you get boosts to your skills you can get a speed boost that makes you sail faster than some one who doesn't pay. You can buy items in the shop that gives items not in game. You can buy boats that are better ect. If you played years in this game some one who put more money in would be able to beat you. That is p2w
Kinda funny calling a game that is like a more fun version of Runescape as a "Pay to Win" game. This game is very very fun compared to Runescape. Its pay model offers increased xp ect. But nothing a free player cant achieve through grinding.
Kinda funny calling a game that is like a more fun version of Runescape as a "Pay to Win" game. This game is very very fun compared to Runescape. Its pay model offers increased xp ect. But nothing a free player cant achieve through grinding.
By the way, LOVE the game so far!
RuneScape's model is different - it is rather a form of the level-locked trial, or extended trial. Sort of like World of Warcraft's new trial model - you can try the game up to level X, and if you like it, you can subscribe to have no limitations in content. Additionally, RuneScape separates subscribing players' servers from non-subscribers'.
I have no problem with paying for a game. Absolutely not. My preference is the sub model, with a free trial. My problem with Eldevin's model is that the non-subscription player is not treated as a trial - they aren't asked to subscribe to see the full game, but to progress faster. Or for convenience - bags are another source of montization.
Anyway, paying not to grind in my view is very much paying to win, even if the paying option only reduces the grind instead of reducing it to zero. And that is, unfortunately, what Eldevin's model is all about. When the reason your players sub is faster progression instead of seeing more content, I don't think the model is healthy (from a psychological point of view - financially it may well be very healthy).
So I played through the first phase of the Eldevin beta and quickly grew to like the game. From a game-play point of view, Eldevin looks really promising, offering traditional browser MMORPG elements with modern features such as action bars and quest-based leveling.
Before the end of the beta, while testing the game and gathering information, I somehow always came to ignore one very important thing: the payment model. Only after the first phase of the beta ended did I come to wonder what type of a model was the game going to use, and so I looked up the right thread on the forums, where I found this:
Eldevin is a free to play game. Players can enjoy the game for free and the experience can be further enhanced by becoming a subscriber or with micro-transactions through our in-game store. You will be able to play through the entire game to the maximum level, access all areas, quests, crafting and events. You'll be able to experience the epic story, participate in all the group dungeons and engage in unlimited PvP (battlegrounds, arena and optional open world PvP areas)!
If you wish to support the game by becoming a subscriber (£4.99/€5.99/$7.49 per month) you will gain the supporter buff (+25% all experience and gold gains) which will be applied continually throughout your subscription period to all characters on your account. Additionally this will grant you 350 Bound Eldevin points per month, with a bonus increase of 25 per month of continuous subscription (up to a max of 1000 points per month).
The premium shop will sell potions that improve experience gain, convenience items, vanity gear, emotes, dances, pets and additional storage. We will not be selling crafted items, gear or gold in the premium shop.
All purchases in the premium shop require Eldevin Points, which can be bought at a rate of $1 per 100 Eldevin Points. These points will be unbound, and can be traded freely with other players. We also plan to add ways for players to earn Eldevin Points without making any purchases.
Now this information is extremely essential for people interested in the payment model the game uses, and after reading this, I quickly made my decision: I probably wouldn't be playing this game.
I am completely fine with sub fees, I am willing to pay money for content (expansion packs). But I am not willing to pay for increased drops/experience in a world where I compete in XP gains/the economy with the non-subscription players. I am also not willing to play a game that sells useful items (other than vanity) for real money.
I think the F2P side and the P2P side should be kept separate, on different servers, much like another browser game, RuneScape, did it. And essentially Hunted Cow Studios' decision to take the P2W route made my decision of not playing this game.
Its a shame, it really is, that the P2W model ruins otherwise promising games. Does anyone else feel the same in this case?
I haven't played the game but the f2p model you describe above looks really good, it actually made in interested in checking it out!
From what that quote says I can see no items in the cash shop that would mess up the game.
EDIT: OMG this thread is two years old- I quickly looked at the OP before posting and saw the 1/05/xx date, but only noticed later that the xx was 2013!
Comments
If everyone pays, you can not pay to win.
Its sounds like you might be so far removed from the concept of a level playing field for one fee (a sub game) that you have no idea what your even saying at this point. Unless you are referring to everyone paying as in paying a sub, but you were too vague in your statement for me to know.
The more you spend on anything that helps character development in any way the greater advantage you have. This is not debatable and why I don't touch F2P games.
I haven't spent a dime and having a blast with this game. It's definitely not pay to win...since there's nothing to really win at. Someday I hope people will learn that MMOs have no winning moment. I mean you win everytime you kill a monster, everytime you kill a boss, everytime you get some loot. That's the only winning you get in MMOs, and really nothing other than some super loots that let you kill super easy. They aren't selling gear, and even though they sell gold, there really isn't much reason to buy gold. Most of the items you can buy are things like dances and emotes, bags, xp and drop boosters, which really don't make that big of a difference anyways.
I played in beta and they gave you free points back then to check out the shop and make sure it works and stuff, and I knew then that this was a payment model I could like. Even though I normally hate F2P games, this game seems to not turn you into a 2nd class citizen if you don't buy something.
The only difference I've noticed between paying and not is you might have to run a dungeon one more time than someone who pays for a drop potion. You have to run it 5-6 times with a potion, or 6-7 times without, that's not big deal for me. And that's if you want a full set of gear, if not, you don't even have to run the dungeons hehe
Wouldn't they also serve a purpose for those with less time to play to catch up to friends that play more? You seem to be focusing too much thought into how this is bad, and little on why it's good.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
LOL- I hate "F2P" and generally think 90-95% of the "F2P" games are P2W.
I came here expecting to agree with the Op and express my opinion yet again on how this is ruining the hobby- Then I saw the payment model...
I know very little about this game nor do I intend to play it- But the payment model looks damn fair imho. I STILL prefer a straight sub based game but this isnt a bad way to go. One of the better payment models I have seen outside of a sub for everything.
I hate F2P but I also give credit where credit is due.
Discovered this game due to this thread.
I usually avoid p2p games, (due to bots and gold sellers) I will always prefer sub.
Having said that , I have played the game for approximately 8 hours.
My first impressions are as follows.
The lore seems well thought out and exist
Seems to be a lot of content, not quite sure.
Adequate population. (f2p locusts/tourist? Time will tell)
Full screen is not really full screen. (please correct me if I am wrong)
Limited camera options. (I would like to be able to see further in front of my toon )
Clunky controls. ( I would have preferred WASD)
No interactive highlight button. (TAB would have been great for this function) I really don't see the need for tab targeting as the combat is quite slow.
Cash Shop icon prominent, but not very intrusive. (They could get rid of the 15 second highlight in the icon. Don't think it's necessary)
The economy seems vibrant.
These are just my observations from playing for a few hours.
I will continue to explore/play this game as I find it interesting/fun .
Thanks to the OP for bringinning this game to my attention.
http://www.entropiapartners.com/?r=22415
increased money gain could be negative depending on how much you can gain without paying for the boost or subscribing.
If you can easily sell materials in an auction house and are not limited by a currency cap as a free player the there should be no problem with buying that boost.
As for exp boost. That has never been, and will never be a P2W thing. You and I are not playing together so we dont need to level at the same pace. I dont care if you hit max level in one day, i will hit max level in months of playing and if i want to level faster ill get a boost and save maybe a few days or weeks of grinding (still taking long to hit max level because even with a boost i wont grind mindlessly). I dont see the problem with that.
Now this information is extremely essential for people interested in the payment model the game uses, and after reading this, I quickly made my decision: I probably wouldn't be playing this game.
I am completely fine with sub fees, I am willing to pay money for content (expansion packs). But I am not willing to pay for increased drops/experience in a world where I compete in XP gains/the economy with the non-subscription players. I am also not willing to play a game that sells useful items (other than vanity) for real money.
I think the F2P side and the P2P side should be kept separate, on different servers, much like another browser game, RuneScape, did it. And essentially Hunted Cow Studios' decision to take the P2W route made my decision of not playing this game.
Its a shame, it really is, that the P2W model ruins otherwise promising games. Does anyone else feel the same in this case?
A pay too win game is uncharted waters online. When you pay you get boosts to your skills you can get a speed boost that makes you sail faster than some one who doesn't pay. You can buy items in the shop that gives items not in game. You can buy boats that are better ect. If you played years in this game some one who put more money in would be able to beat you. That is p2wKinda funny calling a game that is like a more fun version of Runescape as a "Pay to Win" game. This game is very very fun compared to Runescape. Its pay model offers increased xp ect. But nothing a free player cant achieve through grinding.
By the way, LOVE the game so far!
RuneScape's model is different - it is rather a form of the level-locked trial, or extended trial. Sort of like World of Warcraft's new trial model - you can try the game up to level X, and if you like it, you can subscribe to have no limitations in content. Additionally, RuneScape separates subscribing players' servers from non-subscribers'.
I have no problem with paying for a game. Absolutely not. My preference is the sub model, with a free trial. My problem with Eldevin's model is that the non-subscription player is not treated as a trial - they aren't asked to subscribe to see the full game, but to progress faster. Or for convenience - bags are another source of montization.
Anyway, paying not to grind in my view is very much paying to win, even if the paying option only reduces the grind instead of reducing it to zero. And that is, unfortunately, what Eldevin's model is all about. When the reason your players sub is faster progression instead of seeing more content, I don't think the model is healthy (from a psychological point of view - financially it may well be very healthy).
The Weekly Wizardry blog
I haven't played the game but the f2p model you describe above looks really good, it actually made in interested in checking it out!
From what that quote says I can see no items in the cash shop that would mess up the game.
EDIT: OMG this thread is two years old- I quickly looked at the OP before posting and saw the 1/05/xx date, but only noticed later that the xx was 2013!