Oh gawd! First off, someone should really put together a presentation on how to fail at pitching a game. Unless they're doing a founders program, then good one.
Why would someone ever try to attribute any system in their upcoming game to something as iconic as SWG? Is there any better way to be criticized incessantly during your development? I think not.
Well considering they've got people who actually built SWG and JTL, they have a better chance at succeeding in capturing it's spirit, than many others.They certainly have my attention.
For the record, Blixtev was primarily responsible for the massive crafting nerf/revamp that was part of the SWG-CU. How do we know? Because he said so himself, way back when.
What is troubling about that was the fact that at the time, Blixtev himself rationalized it because he thought thing were "too complicated", which they were not. The crafting abilities of several professions were greatly altered/damaged by this.
So while talking about the goodness of the SWG crafting system, also remember who was responsible for wrecking it, too.
Exactly. I had 5 account in SWG, resulting in 11 ‘toons on the Tarquinas server. Only 2 were combat professions, 3 were entertainer, and the rest were crafters. I didn’t craft for commerce or trade only for personal need and enjoyment. But I have seen time and again the hatred for a crafting dominate system in MMOs. Every MMO in development has multiple threads asking about this. Those threads are filled with post demonizing a crafting dominate system like found in OU and SWG.
I am a fan of the system described here. I just don’t believe that the gaming public is also. I fear CF’s system will evolve into something we have seen before. Were crafting is a secondary profession that everyone carries, and crafted items are second rate to raid drops.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
I am a fan of the system described here. I just don’t believe that the gaming public is also. I fear CF’s system will evolve into something we have seen before. Were crafting is a secondary profession that everyone carries, and crafted items are second rate to raid drops.
Seems they have already clearly stated that they aren't going after the "gaming public" and that if the game isn't for someone, oh well. As well as making Crafting rewarding, entertaining, needed and not something to do while waiting for a instance que to pop. Obviously they need players, but I'd wager they can pull in enough to keep the lights on. Very early so anything is possible, but so far they seem to be making the game specifically to get away from what you are saying.
So are you saying Crowfall will launch with a great crafting system then later have it broken due to it's complexity?
I am saying that just because Blixtev, aka Toilet Boy, is working on the crafting system, it does not mean it is going to be good.
His experience on SWG is at best a wash: he was largely responsible for a lot of the crafting changes at the CU (being design lead for the crafting side, which he has stated), which were bad, and was there for several years while the NGE ruined what was left.
So yeah, he worked on SWG and SWG had good crafting at the beginning. And then it was wrecked, and he responsible for at least some of that.
Raph Koster, on the other hand, designed much of what made SWG good, and he was gone before all the BS took place.
His reputation as a "world builder" is frankly much more impressive.
So any excitement because Blixtev is working on a game? Not so much.
So you're focusing on the negative side entirely ? Sure, Blixtev was "responsible" for the "destruction" of SWG's original crafting system, but he was also the the guy who created it in the first place !
I don't for a moment believe that he acted on his own volition. The word came down from the top that SWG had to be "re-designed" to appeal to a different demographic. Each designer and developer who was responsible for a specific area had to come up with changes and a suitable "sales pitch" to justify them. Or find a new job...
Raph Koster is the one who came up with the designs for original SWG, Toilet Boy was far more junior then, so no... Blixtev did not create it in the first place.
And you made my point for me: Blixtev conceived of and designed many of the changes to crafting in the SWG-CU/NGE and THEN he sold them to management, who wanted a dumbed down game. He may not have acted of his own volition, but it was he wholly came up with many of the specific changes. And those changes sucked.
And let us not forget: Toilet Boy has not done anything with crafting systems since then. He moved on to DCUO and that game had no crafting at all and was console fodder. Most of us want a more complex game, and this guy was in charge of a shallow console-ized PS game.
So what is the reason for this unbridled optimism?
If there is one, it is Koster getting his hand in MMOs again.
Should we really to expect a rational take on this from a guy who keeps calling another person toilet boy?
That was his unofficial moniker back in the day, because at one point, he said in an interview or podcast that "If SOE management told me to put a toilet in my living room, I'd do it." Or words to that effect.
After that the nickname stuck with him, especially among non-SOE apologists.
That was his unofficial moniker back in the day, because at one point, he said in an interview or podcast that "If SOE management told me to put a toilet in my living room, I'd do it." Or words to that effect.
After that the nickname stuck with him, especially among non-SOE apologists.
You're right I do remember that ... my mistake, still it shows his standing pretty firmly. He does what he's told by management.
I still wonder whether your thoughts on this are rational or not, the things you're talking about took place over a decade ago (theCU). as well as SOE apologists, yet you're still bringing them up as though they're fresh arguments ( I mean a dig at people you were arguing with 10 years ago?). I'd think most have grown by now as people tend to do...
If this guy didn't know what he's doing or if he was a problem to work with (gonna bring about another SWG CU's, fiasco of a crafting system) why would they hire him in the first place?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I am a fan of the system described here. I just don’t believe that the gaming public is also. I fear CF’s system will evolve into something we have seen before. Were crafting is a secondary profession that everyone carries, and crafted items are second rate to raid drops.
Seems they have already clearly stated that they aren't going after the "gaming public" and that if the game isn't for someone, oh well. As well as making Crafting rewarding, entertaining, needed and not something to do while waiting for a instance queue to pop. Obviously they need players, but I'd wager they can pull in enough to keep the lights on. Very early so anything is possible, but so far they seem to be making the game specifically to get away from what you are saying.
What they stated is not carved in stone, but written on the clouds. And like clouds it can all change before our eyes. Things are starting to sound a lot like the days before other releases.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
I can say after reading this that this is the first game I have been interested in playing for several years. I have not had an active MMO sub for some time now yet I am constantly looking for something to play. I will have to keep an eye on this one.
"I have to use shitty (way below my skill level) blasters I looted from npc corpses because crafters can't find all these exotic resources to craft with, and oh by the way, resource collectors often die or are out of commission because they receive wounds and or die from searching for resources "Surveying". And did I mention that medics don't have any crafted wound packs because they're aren't enough resources yet, so... using your heal wounds skill without a med pack will incur...more wounds!"
Yes hanging out in cantinas did cure wounds.............eventually.
"I have to use shitty (way below my skill level) blasters I looted from npc corpses because crafters can't find all these exotic resources to craft with, and oh by the way, resource collectors often die or are out of commission because they receive wounds and or die from searching for resources "Surveying". And did I mention that medics don't have any crafted wound packs because they're aren't enough resources yet, so... using your heal wounds skill without a med pack will incur...more wounds!"
Yes hanging out in cantinas did cure wounds.............eventually.
That's part of what made that early-era of the game fun. No doubt you'd rather have had a cash shop where you can just buy those things by clicking the shop button on your screen O_o
Can anyone point me to that massively successful in demand full loot pvp game out there? or point me to the huge audience that is clamoring for a full loot pvp game? I see a smattering of people here and there looking it, but other than that it seems the general populace of mmo players want GOOD pve over pvp gankfest.
Crowfall and Camelot Unchained are the only two games on my radar. As long as Crowfall doesn't drop the F2P word or cash shop based game words I will stay very interested.
I remember crafting in the original SWG as one of the best parts of the game. I was able to make some quite decent healing stims that were quite popular. Just wish they had kept that system going, it was easily the best crafting system I've seen.
Likewise with UO, there were certain crafters you just HAD to have - SoupNazi bows on my server were very much desired for example.
Crafting has largely been left behind, its good to see a game try to bring it back.
GREAT! Now we have three identical games coming out and one that will try to be like the others but never will.
Camelot Unchained, Crowfall, Albion, then the red headed step child Shroud of the Avatar.
Yeah, but only the crowfall devs have spent any time on designing crafting, the others are all copycats of what is already out there and not very good ones at that.
This isn't SWG's crafting system, at least not like anyone who ever dedicated any time to crafting would recognize. Part of crafting was the quality of the materials, and this system doesn't appear to take any of that into consideration. Looks more like WoW to me.
Originally posted by Suilebhain This isn't SWG's crafting system, at least not like anyone who ever dedicated any time to crafting would recognize. Part of crafting was the quality of the materials, and this system doesn't appear to take any of that into consideration. Looks more like WoW to me.
You are right. I spend a long time as a weapon smith and armor smith in SWG. It does share the ability to customize stats and such similar to layers in SWG. It also allows for the ability to add an external loot component like krayt tissue or scales in SWG. I am curious if there will be a random element also. Perhaps there will be different purity levels of the elements or something.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
I am a fan of the system described here. I just don’t believe that the gaming public is also. I fear CF’s system will evolve into something we have seen before. Were crafting is a secondary profession that everyone carries, and crafted items are second rate to raid drops.
Seems they have already clearly stated that they aren't going after the "gaming public" and that if the game isn't for someone, oh well. As well as making Crafting rewarding, entertaining, needed and not something to do while waiting for a instance queue to pop. Obviously they need players, but I'd wager they can pull in enough to keep the lights on. Very early so anything is possible, but so far they seem to be making the game specifically to get away from what you are saying.
What they stated is not carved in stone, but written on the clouds. And like clouds it can all change before our eyes. Things are starting to sound a lot like the days before other releases.
Not sure what your experience is with these devs or the games they've been part of, but raid drops and fluff crafting aren't what they are known for. Obviously anything can happen, but crafting and PVP seem to be the core reason for why they've all come together to make another game. Not play copy cat and make another themepark.
GREAT! Now we have three identical games coming out and one that will try to be like the others but never will.
Camelot Unchained, Crowfall, Albion, then the red headed step child Shroud of the Avatar.
I suspect only Albion will have isometric view and combat simple enough to play on an ipad.
Ironically all of them are alike, and all of them look like they are missing the same element: a compelling world worth inhabiting. I see no improvements in these game models since Darkfall, yet they insist on pushing them out. These games are to Darkfall as Rift and Wildstar are to wow. I think I'll henceforth refer to them as Darkfall clones.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle Well just when I though the only MMO being made I was interested in was EQN, this comes and gives the MMOer in me some hope.
This is how it works. Wait 3 years for a decent looking mmo to come out, then suddenly the two you've been waiting for release near the same time and you're forced to gamble on picking the one that wont be fail. That doesn't guarantee they wont both fail. Hope! Hype!
SOE changes name to Daybreak games, cause dey break games.
Wish they were working on a scifi MMO and not fantasy MMO nr 238787823.
Also, maybe I missed it in the article, but I only read about different resource combo's. Not resource quality. So, will this just be another node hunting gathering system and only those looted thralls to make crafted items unique?
SWG crafting was special partly because of how the resource gathering system worked. When high quality resource spawned, it was up for grabs for any crafter present. But it would despawn and maybe never the same quality would spawn again. That is how some crafters became known. They simply had the best quality crafted items because of top quality resources.
I also don't read anything about how crafting is influenced by crafting gear. It was difficult to get top quality crafting stations and crafting clothes that allowed you to use max research points during experimentation. You needed to have this so you could get the max out of top quality resources. And not waste it while using sub par crafting stations/gear.
Anyway. maybe they just skimmed over their upcoming crafting system, but so far I didn't see anything special. It looks more like a system like Vanguard so far. Where you as crafter have control over what stats you give to an item. But apart from that, quality seems to be fixed and you will be just 1 crafted amongst many others that do exactly the same. Just like with a combat profession.
Comments
Exactly. I had 5 account in SWG, resulting in 11 ‘toons on the Tarquinas server. Only 2 were combat professions, 3 were entertainer, and the rest were crafters. I didn’t craft for commerce or trade only for personal need and enjoyment. But I have seen time and again the hatred for a crafting dominate system in MMOs. Every MMO in development has multiple threads asking about this. Those threads are filled with post demonizing a crafting dominate system like found in OU and SWG.
I am a fan of the system described here. I just don’t believe that the gaming public is also. I fear CF’s system will evolve into something we have seen before. Were crafting is a secondary profession that everyone carries, and crafted items are second rate to raid drops.Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Seems they have already clearly stated that they aren't going after the "gaming public" and that if the game isn't for someone, oh well. As well as making Crafting rewarding, entertaining, needed and not something to do while waiting for a instance que to pop. Obviously they need players, but I'd wager they can pull in enough to keep the lights on. Very early so anything is possible, but so far they seem to be making the game specifically to get away from what you are saying.
That was his unofficial moniker back in the day, because at one point, he said in an interview or podcast that "If SOE management told me to put a toilet in my living room, I'd do it." Or words to that effect.
After that the nickname stuck with him, especially among non-SOE apologists.
You're right I do remember that ... my mistake, still it shows his standing pretty firmly. He does what he's told by management.
I still wonder whether your thoughts on this are rational or not, the things you're talking about took place over a decade ago (theCU). as well as SOE apologists, yet you're still bringing them up as though they're fresh arguments ( I mean a dig at people you were arguing with 10 years ago?). I'd think most have grown by now as people tend to do...
If this guy didn't know what he's doing or if he was a problem to work with (gonna bring about another SWG CU's, fiasco of a crafting system) why would they hire him in the first place?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
What they stated is not carved in stone, but written on the clouds. And like clouds it can all change before our eyes. Things are starting to sound a lot like the days before other releases.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
Haven't they been running play tests with a few thousand of the backers since October?
Also, I don't know in what sense EQN "doesn't exist" that isn't true of everything in pre-alpha.
Hopefully they avoid the early SWG issues of...
"I have to use shitty (way below my skill level) blasters I looted from npc corpses because crafters can't find all these exotic resources to craft with, and oh by the way, resource collectors often die or are out of commission because they receive wounds and or die from searching for resources "Surveying". And did I mention that medics don't have any crafted wound packs because they're aren't enough resources yet, so... using your heal wounds skill without a med pack will incur...more wounds!"
Yes hanging out in cantinas did cure wounds.............eventually.
That's part of what made that early-era of the game fun. No doubt you'd rather have had a cash shop where you can just buy those things by clicking the shop button on your screen O_o
Yay!!! another full loot PVP masterpiece(OS).
Can anyone point me to that massively successful in demand full loot pvp game out there? or point me to the huge audience that is clamoring for a full loot pvp game? I see a smattering of people here and there looking it, but other than that it seems the general populace of mmo players want GOOD pve over pvp gankfest.
Help support an artist and gamer who has lost his tools to create and play: http://www.gofundme.com/u63nzcgk
Great concept art and ideas, love the name as well. Ill be keeping an eye on Crowfall.
GREAT! Now we have three identical games coming out and one that will try to be like the others but never will.
Camelot Unchained, Crowfall, Albion, then the red headed step child Shroud of the Avatar.
I remember crafting in the original SWG as one of the best parts of the game. I was able to make some quite decent healing stims that were quite popular. Just wish they had kept that system going, it was easily the best crafting system I've seen.
Likewise with UO, there were certain crafters you just HAD to have - SoupNazi bows on my server were very much desired for example.
Crafting has largely been left behind, its good to see a game try to bring it back.
nevermind, made a response to older post. Need. More. Coffee.
Good Luck to this Project. I hope it goes well.
Yeah, but only the crowfall devs have spent any time on designing crafting, the others are all copycats of what is already out there and not very good ones at that.
crowfallbeginnings.blogspot.com
visit my blog about crowfall and i am open to advice and help spread the word
You are right. I spend a long time as a weapon smith and armor smith in SWG. It does share the ability to customize stats and such similar to layers in SWG. It also allows for the ability to add an external loot component like krayt tissue or scales in SWG. I am curious if there will be a random element also. Perhaps there will be different purity levels of the elements or something.
James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?
Not sure what your experience is with these devs or the games they've been part of, but raid drops and fluff crafting aren't what they are known for. Obviously anything can happen, but crafting and PVP seem to be the core reason for why they've all come together to make another game. Not play copy cat and make another themepark.
I suspect only Albion will have isometric view and combat simple enough to play on an ipad.
Ironically all of them are alike, and all of them look like they are missing the same element: a compelling world worth inhabiting. I see no improvements in these game models since Darkfall, yet they insist on pushing them out. These games are to Darkfall as Rift and Wildstar are to wow. I think I'll henceforth refer to them as Darkfall clones.
This guy... this guy over here... Crit craft chance 0.5%...?! Is he making a Korean game or what? This guy isn't a crafter.
Cheers.
This is how it works. Wait 3 years for a decent looking mmo to come out, then suddenly the two you've been waiting for release near the same time and you're forced to gamble on picking the one that wont be fail. That doesn't guarantee they wont both fail. Hope! Hype!
Wish they were working on a scifi MMO and not fantasy MMO nr 238787823.
Also, maybe I missed it in the article, but I only read about different resource combo's. Not resource quality. So, will this just be another node hunting gathering system and only those looted thralls to make crafted items unique?
SWG crafting was special partly because of how the resource gathering system worked. When high quality resource spawned, it was up for grabs for any crafter present. But it would despawn and maybe never the same quality would spawn again. That is how some crafters became known. They simply had the best quality crafted items because of top quality resources.
I also don't read anything about how crafting is influenced by crafting gear. It was difficult to get top quality crafting stations and crafting clothes that allowed you to use max research points during experimentation. You needed to have this so you could get the max out of top quality resources. And not waste it while using sub par crafting stations/gear.
Anyway. maybe they just skimmed over their upcoming crafting system, but so far I didn't see anything special. It looks more like a system like Vanguard so far. Where you as crafter have control over what stats you give to an item. But apart from that, quality seems to be fixed and you will be just 1 crafted amongst many others that do exactly the same. Just like with a combat profession.