Originally posted by mrneurosis I quit after 3 weeks too so you are not alone OP. People are so excited about B2P change but they forget that fundamental problems that drove so many players away won't be fixed by change in payment model. Low population and fall in subs was just the effect and not the causation.
What fundamental problems? Also, why are you camping ESO threads if you dislike that game so much?
Btw, I agree that hot bar is too limited. 8-10 skills is optimum imo but console controller doesn't have more buttons I guess.
Well, as someone who played the game since the first closed beta, I can attest to some of those fundamental problems:
Lack of playstyle diversity. Every character, no matter which class or how you customize it, ends up playing in the exact same way. Spam skills, hold block, occasional dodge roll. There are no interesting underlying mechanics like in other MMOs, which keep things interesting. This is especially true in PvP, where everyone is pretty much required to slot a heal or dmg shield and play a healer type character in order to be competitive. With no cooldowns or drawbacks to using certain abilities, specialization is punished and everyone becomes the same type of "hybrid character", with the exact same gameplay.
Role of CC. This has been an issue with other games, people don't like getting "stunlocked" to death, but removing it entirely (let's face it, it's a "drain stamina" skill, not a reliable CC) is only dumbing down the game. Other solutions could have been explored, but I don't think CC will ever be a relevant factor after B2P.
Lack of attributes & meaningless character progression. Since they made the decision to dumb down the game & use only health, magicka & stamina as attributes, you end up pretty much the same character as everyone else. It matters little how you spend your attribute points, since you'll be fine tuning your stats anyhow with gear, and you are not able to accurately represent your character in a RPG manner (e.g. how strong, agile or smart he/she is etc). This also causes itemization to lack a lot of depth & fun it could've had. Each item in game is just "5 more stamina" or "3 more magicka", until they eventually flat out at max. level, ending up the same across the board (only set bonuses matter).
And I'm sure I could think of others, but these are just the top 3 for me.
As for why people "camp ESO threads", many of us are interested in having quality products in the future, and the best way to make sure this happens is by providing feedback.
I completely disagree with your assessment, especially #1. I play a Stam NB Werewolf. I have no damage shield and if I hold block, I'm a sitting duck. I'm highly mobile. As far as #2, One of the names I tossed around for this build was "Blah Blah Controller" My CC and Area control are Devastating. #3 There are a lot more stats than that... Sure I too would love old scool D&D stats, but I have enough to manage. My stats on my main are perfect. The stats on my alt suck...
The systems you see as faults, are why I still play ESO. I'm a chronic specologyst and I've had enough to fiddle with playing one toon for nearly a year..
side note- Sorry for calling you a Newb as in Newbie OP. I meant no harm. There is nothing wrong with being new. We all were newbs once. We answer newbs questions in ESO and give them advice.
Originally posted by mrneurosis I quit after 3 weeks too so you are not alone OP. People are so excited about B2P change but they forget that fundamental problems that drove so many players away won't be fixed by change in payment model. Low population and fall in subs was just the effect and not the causation.
What fundamental problems? Also, why are you camping ESO threads if you dislike that game so much?
Btw, I agree that hot bar is too limited. 8-10 skills is optimum imo but console controller doesn't have more buttons I guess.
Well, as someone who played the game since the first closed beta, I can attest to some of those fundamental problems:
Lack of playstyle diversity. Every character, no matter which class or how you customize it, ends up playing in the exact same way. Spam skills, hold block, occasional dodge roll. There are no interesting underlying mechanics like in other MMOs, which keep things interesting. This is especially true in PvP, where everyone is pretty much required to slot a heal or dmg shield and play a healer type character in order to be competitive. With no cooldowns or drawbacks to using certain abilities, specialization is punished and everyone becomes the same type of "hybrid character", with the exact same gameplay.
Role of CC. This has been an issue with other games, people don't like getting "stunlocked" to death, but removing it entirely (let's face it, it's a "drain stamina" skill, not a reliable CC) is only dumbing down the game. Other solutions could have been explored, but I don't think CC will ever be a relevant factor after B2P.
Lack of attributes & meaningless character progression. Since they made the decision to dumb down the game & use only health, magicka & stamina as attributes, you end up pretty much the same character as everyone else. It matters little how you spend your attribute points, since you'll be fine tuning your stats anyhow with gear, and you are not able to accurately represent your character in a RPG manner (e.g. how strong, agile or smart he/she is etc). This also causes itemization to lack a lot of depth & fun it could've had. Each item in game is just "5 more stamina" or "3 more magicka", until they eventually flat out at max. level, ending up the same across the board (only set bonuses matter).
And I'm sure I could think of others, but these are just the top 3 for me.
As for why people "camp ESO threads", many of us are interested in having quality products in the future, and the best way to make sure this happens is by providing feedback.
Number 1 and 3 are purely subjective and therefore not fundamental. Being a player since closed beta isn't much of an argument either because that alone doesn't make someone's subjective assessment more valid. Tastes are different. I quit ESO and came back later. I like it much more this time.
someone asked why i had the will to level two characters to level 50
well my plan was to have one Level 50 on each dominion and to play all quests of all three kingdoms.
The grafics of this game are fantastic, and i often enjoyed just looking at the scenery.
as 3rd character i truly wanted to have a close range melee character.
Honestly its no fun to level a pure melee in this game.
2+ enemies against a Nightblade without heals is just a joke sometimes while a Caster just kills them form range without getting touched. ah right the NB gets a little funny heal over time..... yea...
ahh pfffff .. whatever i am so tired and bored of this game that i am not wasting more words on it.
The developers of this game are simply to old for this business, their vision of how a game should be is strange, weird and pointless.
Instead of creating a fast fun close range combat system, the characters animations are creepy slow,dull and without any creativity.
The Bow skill line is worse than anything from 1999-2005
My 44 year old neighbour seems to enjoy his Dragonknight with his 5 hotkeys... i watched him playing .... no words. i think 2 more keys and he would become nuts.
i can deal with 4 x 10 visible Hotbars easy ..
ELDER SCROLLS ONLINE feels like its made by old people for old people and not for young fast reactive players.
And on Top i just cant stand this unbeatable and horroible FIVE SKILL HOTBAR anymore while having dozens of skills that i would like to combine and enjoy..
My build when the game first started: 1H-Shield + BOW+Sorc
My build now: 2H + Bow+Sorc
Never used staffs.
I kill people a lot in PvP with the 2H.
Played since BETA and only VR7 (still kill people in PvP) because most of what I do is PvP. Still have all of EP zone to complete.
You can follow the "majority" or you can make your own build and still fight 4-5 storm/ice atronoachs at once without any staff at all.
If you think the only viable build is using a staff... try again.
Yep.
This is something that's happened in every single MMO I've played.
Players find a build that works really well and is as close to "easy mode" as you can get.
It becomes the "standard" build that everyone and their grandmother uses.
People get bored playing the same build and complain about the game being "too limited in viable builds", blaming the devs.
Suggesting they experiment and find an alternate build that better suits them, and that is -gasp- fun gets reactions of dismissal and even derision; it's quite possible you'll be told - without irony - to "learn to play" by people who themselves have done nothing more than follow a template/build guide like a cake recipe, and likely couldn't tell anything, in any meaningful detail, about those other builds or why they're no good. "Why? Please explain" is one of the most frustrating things to say to these people, because they have no idea. I know, because I've tried it, many times. They don't know the mechanics behind it. They're just doing what everyone else does, or tells them to.
Many, many gamers don't want to explore, experiment or see what else might be fun/interesting. They just want "the winning formula" for everything... and then blame the devs for their own lack of imagination/experimentation when it gets boring.
I remember a guy back in FFXI whom - after lots of research and trial and error - proved that he could function perfectly well as a Melee White Mage.. and do it well. He could heal and such.. but also still deal damage and contribute. He even beat Maat (a notoriously difficult milestone fight in the game) through combat... not the usual White Mage approach. Despite proving, and offering to demonstrate his build and how it worked to people, he was slammed and told to "learn to play". He was mocked and insulted, and his thread was ultimately locked by the site owner, whom only did so after taking one last opportunity to bash him a little more.
Why were they so angry? 'cause he was screwing with their "reality". He was telling them - and willing to prove - things that went against what they'd convinced themselves was "the only true and correct way to play the game". The irony is, he knew the game, certainly that particular job, better than any of the people telling him that. They were just sheep following the flock. He was an individual actually experimenting and learning things for himself.
The same goes for dungeons and anything of that sort. People are determined to follow the strategies that will "guarantee a win".... all the while complaining about how repetitious and boring it is. Yet, suggest they experiment and try different strategies, to make it more interesting/fun... and they respond as though you just asked them to stab themselves with a rusty butter knife.
MMOs offter players myriad ways to play and approach the content. Players have so much control over their own experience. Yet, they insist on sticking to guides, walkthroughs, videos and such. Then they look to the devs for an "explanation" when they find it repetitious and boring... when they really should be looking in the mirror.
I've said this for years, and it's still as true as ever: MMO players are their own worst enemies.
Originally posted by mrneurosis I quit after 3 weeks too so you are not alone OP. People are so excited about B2P change but they forget that fundamental problems that drove so many players away won't be fixed by change in payment model. Low population and fall in subs was just the effect and not the causation.
What fundamental problems? Also, why are you camping ESO threads if you dislike that game so much?
Btw, I agree that hot bar is too limited. 8-10 skills is optimum imo but console controller doesn't have more buttons I guess.
Well, as someone who played the game since the first closed beta, I can attest to some of those fundamental problems:
Lack of playstyle diversity. Every character, no matter which class or how you customize it, ends up playing in the exact same way. Spam skills, hold block, occasional dodge roll. There are no interesting underlying mechanics like in other MMOs, which keep things interesting. This is especially true in PvP, where everyone is pretty much required to slot a heal or dmg shield and play a healer type character in order to be competitive. With no cooldowns or drawbacks to using certain abilities, specialization is punished and everyone becomes the same type of "hybrid character", with the exact same gameplay.
Role of CC. This has been an issue with other games, people don't like getting "stunlocked" to death, but removing it entirely (let's face it, it's a "drain stamina" skill, not a reliable CC) is only dumbing down the game. Other solutions could have been explored, but I don't think CC will ever be a relevant factor after B2P.
Lack of attributes & meaningless character progression. Since they made the decision to dumb down the game & use only health, magicka & stamina as attributes, you end up pretty much the same character as everyone else. It matters little how you spend your attribute points, since you'll be fine tuning your stats anyhow with gear, and you are not able to accurately represent your character in a RPG manner (e.g. how strong, agile or smart he/she is etc). This also causes itemization to lack a lot of depth & fun it could've had. Each item in game is just "5 more stamina" or "3 more magicka", until they eventually flat out at max. level, ending up the same across the board (only set bonuses matter).
And I'm sure I could think of others, but these are just the top 3 for me.
As for why people "camp ESO threads", many of us are interested in having quality products in the future, and the best way to make sure this happens is by providing feedback.
Number 1 and 3 are purely subjective and therefore not fundamental. Being a player since closed beta isn't much of an argument either because that alone doesn't make someone's subjective assessment more valid. Tastes are different. I quit ESO and came back later. I like it much more this time.
You don't say!! where is this wisdom when others offer their criticsm about ESO and you ask them silly questions like 'why are you camping ESO threads if you dislike it so much'. Typical double talk BS.
Loss in subscribers wasn't due to payment model alone. Once people start playing it again they will realise it pretty soon.
You don't say!! where is this wisdom when others offer their criticsm about ESO and you ask them silly questions like 'why are you camping ESO threads if you dislike it so much'. Typical double talk BS.
Loss in subscribers wasn't due to payment model alone. Once people start playing it again they will realise it pretty soon.
I actually really, really enjoyed ESO. Much more than I thought I would.
After a while, though I just sorta lost the "oomph" to log in. I can't even explain why. I don't know what it was. Somehow I just wasn't "feeling it" anymore. There's no one specific reason I can even try to point to. I won't even say "it's a bad game", because I don't think it is. I was very impressed by how much they'd improved it by the time I went back, and I genuinely had a great time.
I had the same experience with GW2, and even FFXIV.
I found myself wanting to log in less and less.
So strange, compared to how I was with the earlier MMOs I played. When I played Lineage 2, or FFXI, or AC2, or Anarchy Online, or EQ2 (near its launch), I couldn't wait to log in and play. While at work, I sat and thought about what I was going to do when I next played. And this carried on for easily over 7 years.
With newer games, I dunno.. that craving just isn't there. I don't "miss them" when I'm not playing. That "hook" is missing.
Very odd.
What's nice about ESO going B2P is that, like GW2 or TSW, I can just keep the games on my system, and log in to play when ever I feel like getting a "dose" of them. Though I find even those are waning anymore.
Your problem is not ESO. You are in the rush crowd that blows through games and then find your self bored. You do not raise 2 toons in a game that you do not enjoy playing. You did enjoy the game until now.
I have been playing the game for months and my DK is only level 27. The only add on that I use is Skyshards because having all that other junk installed clutters the screen and makes the game impossible to get immersed into. I do agree with the skill bar. They need to use the F1-F4 to add more skills.
You know why the classes really fail and why you got bored,the same reason i do with these games>>>SOLO game play.
Everything is designed to play solo by yourself.I do not see the reason to have internet and login to a game that calls itself a MMO if i am going to play solo and/or with characters that are designed around solo play.Once you design it it like that it doesn't even matter anymore if i am in a group because my character design is to rely on nobody but myself.
You won't worry about HARDCORE or if your personal build is o/p or good enough when you are in a group all that matters is that you have fun playing your class and that your group can succeed.When you remove the "ME" factor from gaming and make it about working TOGETHER it brings gaming to a whole new level of fun and community.THAT is what is missing from all modern MMO's.
I will use an example of when i played FFXI the first several years.I almost NEVER saw silly chat,the nonsense we know we see in game chat all the time.When i played other solo designed games chat was an infestation of nonsense.I beleive it is because soloing players often just stand around doing nothing get bored and infest chat.When we were grouping in FFXI there was no time for random chat only inside your group.Also with so much help needed chat was just full of players forming groups and asking fro help,it made chat more abot uthe game and less about your mom jokes or whatever other nonsense we see.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
You don't say!! where is this wisdom when others offer their criticsm about ESO and you ask them silly questions like 'why are you camping ESO threads if you dislike it so much'. Typical double talk BS.
Loss in subscribers wasn't due to payment model alone. Once people start playing it again they will realise it pretty soon.
I actually really, really enjoyed ESO. Much more than I thought I would.
After a while, though I just sorta lost the "oomph" to log in. I can't even explain why. I don't know what it was. Somehow I just wasn't "feeling it" anymore. There's no one specific reason I can even try to point to. I won't even say "it's a bad game", because I don't think it is. I was very impressed by how much they'd improved it by the time I went back, and I genuinely had a great time.
I had the same experience with GW2, and even FFXIV.
I found myself wanting to log in less and less.
So strange, compared to how I was with the earlier MMOs I played. When I played Lineage 2, or FFXI, or AC2, or Anarchy Online, or EQ2 (near its launch), I couldn't wait to log in and play. While at work, I sat and thought about what I was going to do when I next played. And this carried on for easily over 7 years.
With newer games, I dunno.. that craving just isn't there. I don't "miss them" when I'm not playing. That "hook" is missing.
Very odd.
What's nice about ESO going B2P is that, like GW2 or TSW, I can just keep the games on my system, and log in to play when ever I feel like getting a "dose" of them. Though I find even those are waning anymore.
I had the exact same experience with ESO. My only difference is when I went back to play FFXIV and GW2 I actually was able to play them again for the an extended period. I was unable to play ESO for more than an hour when I went back. I really don't know why, but I think what you said is very true, "just sorta lost the "oomph" to log in."
You don't say!! where is this wisdom when others offer their criticsm about ESO and you ask them silly questions like 'why are you camping ESO threads if you dislike it so much'. Typical double talk BS.
Loss in subscribers wasn't due to payment model alone. Once people start playing it again they will realise it pretty soon.
I actually really, really enjoyed ESO. Much more than I thought I would.
After a while, though I just sorta lost the "oomph" to log in. I can't even explain why. I don't know what it was. Somehow I just wasn't "feeling it" anymore. There's no one specific reason I can even try to point to. I won't even say "it's a bad game", because I don't think it is. I was very impressed by how much they'd improved it by the time I went back, and I genuinely had a great time.
I had the same experience with GW2, and even FFXIV.
I found myself wanting to log in less and less.
So strange, compared to how I was with the earlier MMOs I played. When I played Lineage 2, or FFXI, or AC2, or Anarchy Online, or EQ2 (near its launch), I couldn't wait to log in and play. While at work, I sat and thought about what I was going to do when I next played. And this carried on for easily over 7 years.
With newer games, I dunno.. that craving just isn't there. I don't "miss them" when I'm not playing. That "hook" is missing.
Very odd.
What's nice about ESO going B2P is that, like GW2 or TSW, I can just keep the games on my system, and log in to play when ever I feel like getting a "dose" of them. Though I find even those are waning anymore.
Wow you described the way I feel, newer games have lost the hook and I think one of the problems is the constant nerf. I was playing GW2 and I was having a good time and then the nerf started and I just lost the desire to log in, but that was just one thing, there are other things that I cannot express that make me feel like not loging.
The worst of all is the horrible >>> 5 Skill Hotbar <<< + one ULTIMATE !
This is more then enough to for me to stay away from game. I hate button mashers
i know, i know i know ... the developers want players to think about which skills they use out of their 99 Skills....
Nope has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY SKILL. Only shows that game is for simple minded gamers that get confused easily with more then 5 keys on screen.
Has to do only with BUTTON MASHING and BIG ANNOYANCE. And mazochism while constantly adapting that silly 1 toolbar.
If there are 3 rows of toolbars NOBODY is preventing lovers of button mashing to use 1 sole ability to play whole time. But leaves to OTHER choice to use more.
i know i know and i know that some players truly enjoy this.
This is something I will never understand. Ok, I have enjoyed a lot some time console games. But I do not play anymore button mashers. And game with 1 toolbar is just that, button masher.
Sole reason I stopped to play Wildstar and TSW when realized that.
Comming from Everquest 1-2 , DAOC, AoC, Warhammer and many other great mmorpg´s the Elder Scroll User Interface is just laughable.
To make this game somehow playable you have to download MODs from external websites.
> NO MINIMAP
> NO DAMAGE FLOATERS
> NO MAP MARKERS
> NO AREA LOOT BANNERS ( you never know what you have looted if you AoE loot)
etc etc etc etc
If all this is true then this game for sure is not for me. I'm happy however for those that enjoy it.
While I have no issue with anyone wanting more skills to play around with the reality is that in most games with 20+ skills most people(not all) end up spamming the same 5 skill rotation over and over. I just adjust my mindset to the game at hand. I look at it as I need to be very selective with what 5 skills and 1 ultimate I need to get the most out of my character for any given situation. I guess to each his own though.
it was great at start because i took the right class > Templar / healing / destro
It was good with my 2nd character > Sorceror / Destro / Summon / heal
Tried Bow skill line > i felt asleep while playing or died because of the horrible designed Bow skills
Tried Nightblade > weak Glascannon...
Tried Dragonknight > felt asleep chain pullin mobs to me and kill them
Tried Dual wield > one selfheal at start combined with NBs heal was ok but not worth it
After trying endless new characters i couldnt find any interesting combination than the ones i already played to Veteran Level 1
The BOW skill line is the worst Bow design i have ever seen in a mmorpg. No fun double Shots , no cool animations, just plain dull skills with absolutely no creativity.
They should rework/redesign the Bow skills completly..
The worst of all is the horrible >>> 5 Skill Hotbar <<< + one ULTIMATE !
i know, i know i know ... the developers want players to think about which skills they use out of their 99 Skills....
i know i know and i know that some players truly enjoy this.
but
i do not enjoy having 20-30 Skills on 2 little switchable 5 Slot Hotbars with the need to switch between them all time.
Maybe they limited the Hotbar to 5 skills because of Console controllers... i dont know.. why ever..
In future if this stupid trend continues we will see Elder Scroll Online 2/3/4 with a 3 Skill Hotbar and maybe it will dissapear completly someday....
Comming from Everquest 1-2 , DAOC, AoC, Warhammer and many other great mmorpg´s the Elder Scroll User Interface is just laughable.
To make this game somehow playable you have to download MODs from external websites.
> NO MINIMAP
> NO DAMAGE FLOATERS
> NO MAP MARKERS
> NO AREA LOOT BANNERS ( you never know what you have looted if you AoE loot)
etc etc etc etc
The developers of this game went the comfortable way and in honest words left the work of creating a good GUI to external MOD programmers.
"If you arent MODDING your not playing the game right" is what someone told me in /zone chat once....
Well i am honest .... i payed 11.99€ for the game + 30 days free....
it was worth it for the 2 Main characters but i would never continue to pay for this game..
Free to play is comming soon and this overhyped Patch 1.6 with it......... lets see..
i feel many Nerfs,crying and yelling incomming with 1.6 especially from Sorcerors...
until then i am done with this game just because of pure boredom and no will to log in anymore...
i know i am not the only one that leaves a basically well designed and good looking game but
TESO isnt more than great grafics, 5 Hotbar Keys and super limited ways to build a creative character...
TESO is sadly one of the most boring online games i have ever played and only my will and discipline to at least level two characters to level 50 (V1) was the reason i stayed for 3 weeks.
Bow skill last time I played when I subbed back in October was still clunky. The overall combat got better but its still too slow for my personal tastes with an Action Combat system.
5 slot Hotbar is too small as well. 8-10 is the sweet spot IMO. Fewer then that and it feels boring, more then that and it feels like I'm playing a simulator instead of a game.
4 Character Classes is about 8 too few for me. There needs to be many more (or do away with classes and have any character be able to access any skill line. Then add on about 12 or so more skill lines then it will be good.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
You don't say!! where is this wisdom when others offer their criticsm about ESO and you ask them silly questions like 'why are you camping ESO threads if you dislike it so much'. Typical double talk BS.
Loss in subscribers wasn't due to payment model alone. Once people start playing it again they will realise it pretty soon.
Actually there's difference between offering criticism and just bashing. All you are doing is just dropping a few negative lines in different ESO threads. This game is far from being perfect but trolling doesn't make it any better. OP took his time to write up his concerns and while I don't agree with many I agree with some.
If you were tasked to design a game that will run on consoles as well as PCs - you'd limit the # of hotbar abilites as well.
Logical, no?
I mean having 40 combat abilities would not be really playable with a controller that has 8 buttons.
My 3 years using 40 abilities on my 360 controller for SWTOR says differently. I can't believe people still use this absolutely carp excuse. You are 100% wrong and I'm tired of re-iterating the fact to people on these forums.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing. "SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13 The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
ES is great - one of the best SINGLE PLAYER RPG franchises ever. An ES VI would've been great. ES VI with small scale co-op you could host yourself to retain what makes ES great (impact of decisions, rich content, personal experiences) would've been insane.
I love Skyrim. So do a few of my friends. If we could've played Skyrim together it would've been amazing, as one of the few negatives about it is not being able to share something so cool with a few close friends. [mod edit] One of the best parts about Skyrm/ES is the intimacy and that's shot once you have 30 people crowding around a quest giver or an empty dungeon waiting on respawns or fighting for kills with bots.
ES as an MMORPG was just a dumb idea.
What's annoying is that because they went subscription based and produced a steaming pile of dookie, it makes subs look bad, and makes all the F2P give me everything for nothing fanbois froth.
There's nothing wrong with subs - it's a great model for GOOD GAMES worth subbing to. MMORPG history is littered with horrible games that make the whole genre look bad, and which make subs look bad, and ESO is just another example of an MMORPG that should never have been made.
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
P2P, B2P, or F2P is not enough to fix the fundamental problems that exists in this lackluster themepark game with ok combat and decent character advancement.
If ESO was more Skyrim than MMO, I think it would have done better for a lot of us.
I think the only thing I enjoyed was the PVP, and even that had problems...
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
So you enjoyed the pvp, char advancement is decent, you think the combat is ok, most people think the questing and levelling is good quality and fun, the graphics are very good, there's been a ton if content released and more on way ^^. Sounds like a damn fine mmorpg to me.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
If you were tasked to design a game that will run on consoles as well as PCs - you'd limit the # of hotbar abilites as well.
Logical, no?
I mean having 40 combat abilities would not be really playable with a controller that has 8 buttons.
And this is the problem in a nutshell, a problem I and others have stated on many occasions. MMO's have no place on a console due to the restrictions of the controller. Not only do you lose the ability bars, but you seriously impact the social aspect of the game due to the simple lack of a keyb. You only have to look at Defiance or Destiny (not teally an MMO but you get the point) to see how console design impacts the social side of the game.
Trying to port MMO's to console inevitably leads to a watered down, dumbed down, antisocial clusterfuck.
1. The state of the game that sounds appealing and functional is reliant upon future patches and fixes. These always seem to be "in the future" and now delayed greatly by the B2P transition.
2. Limited skill options. I agree with the OP that no matter how you look at it (along side many of things I do like about the game) playing ESO as an mmo player is like riding a single geared bike on training wheels. The system imo works far better with stamina builds as the action based combat mechanics offer you far greater benefits and options. As a magicka spell caster you are limited to the same amount of skills which destroys the very concept of a mage class. Casters, as far back as D&D 1st edition, have always been about using the utility of their spells. They cannot use physical options like charge, disarm, grapple, etc which all men-at-arms have access to (much like stamina users in ESO) and therefore rely upon their unique class abilities and spells. ESO guts this entirely by making them play exactly like warrior types due to a limited system.
People constantly say that being forced to spend stamina on dodge, block and sprint limits them. NO IT DOES NOT! Everyone has to use these options at times and stamina users can use them nearly indefinitely if they have an ounce of intelligence in build design.
To play a mage in ESO is to constantly feel like the powers you want to call upon are not in reach. Stamina builds have been buffed over many patches but the shift has now gone too far. Mage builds were always forced to exist within a far too rigid format. An independent issue to stamina. Fixing stamina is one thing but to further limit mage builds on top of existing mechanics to simply too much for me to accept.
If you were tasked to design a game that will run on consoles as well as PCs - you'd limit the # of hotbar abilites as well.
Logical, no?
I mean having 40 combat abilities would not be really playable with a controller that has 8 buttons.
My 3 years using 40 abilities on my 360 controller for SWTOR says differently. I can't believe people still use this absolutely carp excuse. You are 100% wrong and I'm tired of re-iterating the fact to people on these forums.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
So wait you make what would have to be a pretty convoluted set-up for yourself ( i assume with xpadder) and that's proof that it would work for commercial use?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If you were tasked to design a game that will run on consoles as well as PCs - you'd limit the # of hotbar abilites as well.
Logical, no?
I mean having 40 combat abilities would not be really playable with a controller that has 8 buttons.
My 3 years using 40 abilities on my 360 controller for SWTOR says differently. I can't believe people still use this absolutely carp excuse. You are 100% wrong and I'm tired of re-iterating the fact to people on these forums.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
So wait you make what would have to be a pretty convoluted set-up for yourself ( i assume with xpadder) and that's proof that it would work for commercial use?
You either are able to adapt to a control scheme or you are not. All gamers have had to do it for one game or another or on one platform or another depending on the control scheme. Is it that it's not possible or is it that gamers should not have to change or have any learning/comfort curve for anything?
If you were tasked to design a game that will run on consoles as well as PCs - you'd limit the # of hotbar abilites as well.
Logical, no?
I mean having 40 combat abilities would not be really playable with a controller that has 8 buttons.
My 3 years using 40 abilities on my 360 controller for SWTOR says differently. I can't believe people still use this absolutely carp excuse. You are 100% wrong and I'm tired of re-iterating the fact to people on these forums.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
So wait you make what would have to be a pretty convoluted set-up for yourself ( i assume with xpadder) and that's proof that it would work for commercial use?
You either are able to adapt to a control scheme or you are not. All gamers have had to do it for one game or another or on one platform or another depending on the control scheme. Is it that it's not possible or is it that gamers should not have to change or have any learning/comfort curve for anything?
It's not about that, it's about the scheme being intuitive and easily adapted to. If we're talking small niche products you can do anything you want, but games built for the massive, need to incorporate intuitive designs, otherwise they shoot their own foot off. If it's easily fumbled or uncomfortable, it will not catch on.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If you were tasked to design a game that will run on consoles as well as PCs - you'd limit the # of hotbar abilites as well.
Logical, no?
I mean having 40 combat abilities would not be really playable with a controller that has 8 buttons.
My 3 years using 40 abilities on my 360 controller for SWTOR says differently. I can't believe people still use this absolutely carp excuse. You are 100% wrong and I'm tired of re-iterating the fact to people on these forums.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
So wait you make what would have to be a pretty convoluted set-up for yourself ( i assume with xpadder) and that's proof that it would work for commercial use?
You either are able to adapt to a control scheme or you are not. All gamers have had to do it for one game or another or on one platform or another depending on the control scheme. Is it that it's not possible or is it that gamers should not have to change or have any learning/comfort curve for anything?
It's not about that, it's about the scheme being intuitive and easily adapted to. If we're talking small niche products you can do anything you want, but games built for the massive, need to incorporate intuitive designs, otherwise they shoot their own foot off. If it's easily fumbled or uncomfortable, it will not catch on.
I understand that but then again I also hope I never become that static of an individual.
I understand that but then again I also hope I never become that static of an individual.
I wouldn't say it's being static in this case, we're talking putting 40 commands into 8 buttons. In a game with some twitch as well as PVP focus. That's a lot of button combinations to map out, learn and adapt to...on top of executing quickly.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I understand that but then again I also hope I never become that static of an individual.
I wouldn't say it's being static in this case, we're talking putting 40 commands into 8 buttons. In a game with some twitch as well as PVP focus. That's a lot of button combinations to map out, learn and adapt to.
Correct me if I'm wrong but in FF XIV you end up with quite a few skills mapped to crossbars and it seems to work quite well to me. It's all about getting used to control scheme until it becomes second nature. There will always be some limitations of course but I don't think it in any way makes MMOs not viable on consoles with controllers and many more than 6 mapped skills.
Comments
I completely disagree with your assessment, especially #1. I play a Stam NB Werewolf. I have no damage shield and if I hold block, I'm a sitting duck. I'm highly mobile. As far as #2, One of the names I tossed around for this build was "Blah Blah Controller" My CC and Area control are Devastating. #3 There are a lot more stats than that... Sure I too would love old scool D&D stats, but I have enough to manage. My stats on my main are perfect. The stats on my alt suck...
The systems you see as faults, are why I still play ESO. I'm a chronic specologyst and I've had enough to fiddle with playing one toon for nearly a year..
side note- Sorry for calling you a Newb as in Newbie OP. I meant no harm. There is nothing wrong with being new. We all were newbs once. We answer newbs questions in ESO and give them advice.
Number 1 and 3 are purely subjective and therefore not fundamental. Being a player since closed beta isn't much of an argument either because that alone doesn't make someone's subjective assessment more valid. Tastes are different. I quit ESO and came back later. I like it much more this time.
someone asked why i had the will to level two characters to level 50
well my plan was to have one Level 50 on each dominion and to play all quests of all three kingdoms.
The grafics of this game are fantastic, and i often enjoyed just looking at the scenery.
as 3rd character i truly wanted to have a close range melee character.
Honestly its no fun to level a pure melee in this game.
2+ enemies against a Nightblade without heals is just a joke sometimes while a Caster just kills them form range without getting touched. ah right the NB gets a little funny heal over time..... yea...
ahh pfffff .. whatever i am so tired and bored of this game that i am not wasting more words on it.
The developers of this game are simply to old for this business, their vision of how a game should be is strange, weird and pointless.
Instead of creating a fast fun close range combat system, the characters animations are creepy slow,dull and without any creativity.
The Bow skill line is worse than anything from 1999-2005
My 44 year old neighbour seems to enjoy his Dragonknight with his 5 hotkeys... i watched him playing .... no words. i think 2 more keys and he would become nuts.
i can deal with 4 x 10 visible Hotbars easy ..
ELDER SCROLLS ONLINE feels like its made by old people for old people and not for young fast reactive players.
And on Top i just cant stand this unbeatable and horroible FIVE SKILL HOTBAR anymore while having dozens of skills that i would like to combine and enjoy..
Yep.
This is something that's happened in every single MMO I've played.
Players find a build that works really well and is as close to "easy mode" as you can get.
It becomes the "standard" build that everyone and their grandmother uses.
People get bored playing the same build and complain about the game being "too limited in viable builds", blaming the devs.
Suggesting they experiment and find an alternate build that better suits them, and that is -gasp- fun gets reactions of dismissal and even derision; it's quite possible you'll be told - without irony - to "learn to play" by people who themselves have done nothing more than follow a template/build guide like a cake recipe, and likely couldn't tell anything, in any meaningful detail, about those other builds or why they're no good. "Why? Please explain" is one of the most frustrating things to say to these people, because they have no idea. I know, because I've tried it, many times. They don't know the mechanics behind it. They're just doing what everyone else does, or tells them to.
Many, many gamers don't want to explore, experiment or see what else might be fun/interesting. They just want "the winning formula" for everything... and then blame the devs for their own lack of imagination/experimentation when it gets boring.
I remember a guy back in FFXI whom - after lots of research and trial and error - proved that he could function perfectly well as a Melee White Mage.. and do it well. He could heal and such.. but also still deal damage and contribute. He even beat Maat (a notoriously difficult milestone fight in the game) through combat... not the usual White Mage approach. Despite proving, and offering to demonstrate his build and how it worked to people, he was slammed and told to "learn to play". He was mocked and insulted, and his thread was ultimately locked by the site owner, whom only did so after taking one last opportunity to bash him a little more.
Why were they so angry? 'cause he was screwing with their "reality". He was telling them - and willing to prove - things that went against what they'd convinced themselves was "the only true and correct way to play the game". The irony is, he knew the game, certainly that particular job, better than any of the people telling him that. They were just sheep following the flock. He was an individual actually experimenting and learning things for himself.
The same goes for dungeons and anything of that sort. People are determined to follow the strategies that will "guarantee a win".... all the while complaining about how repetitious and boring it is. Yet, suggest they experiment and try different strategies, to make it more interesting/fun... and they respond as though you just asked them to stab themselves with a rusty butter knife.
MMOs offter players myriad ways to play and approach the content. Players have so much control over their own experience. Yet, they insist on sticking to guides, walkthroughs, videos and such. Then they look to the devs for an "explanation" when they find it repetitious and boring... when they really should be looking in the mirror.
I've said this for years, and it's still as true as ever: MMO players are their own worst enemies.
You don't say!! where is this wisdom when others offer their criticsm about ESO and you ask them silly questions like 'why are you camping ESO threads if you dislike it so much'. Typical double talk BS.
Loss in subscribers wasn't due to payment model alone. Once people start playing it again they will realise it pretty soon.
I actually really, really enjoyed ESO. Much more than I thought I would.
After a while, though I just sorta lost the "oomph" to log in. I can't even explain why. I don't know what it was. Somehow I just wasn't "feeling it" anymore. There's no one specific reason I can even try to point to. I won't even say "it's a bad game", because I don't think it is. I was very impressed by how much they'd improved it by the time I went back, and I genuinely had a great time.
I had the same experience with GW2, and even FFXIV.
I found myself wanting to log in less and less.
So strange, compared to how I was with the earlier MMOs I played. When I played Lineage 2, or FFXI, or AC2, or Anarchy Online, or EQ2 (near its launch), I couldn't wait to log in and play. While at work, I sat and thought about what I was going to do when I next played. And this carried on for easily over 7 years.
With newer games, I dunno.. that craving just isn't there. I don't "miss them" when I'm not playing. That "hook" is missing.
Very odd.
What's nice about ESO going B2P is that, like GW2 or TSW, I can just keep the games on my system, and log in to play when ever I feel like getting a "dose" of them. Though I find even those are waning anymore.
Your problem is not ESO. You are in the rush crowd that blows through games and then find your self bored. You do not raise 2 toons in a game that you do not enjoy playing. You did enjoy the game until now.
I have been playing the game for months and my DK is only level 27. The only add on that I use is Skyshards because having all that other junk installed clutters the screen and makes the game impossible to get immersed into. I do agree with the skill bar. They need to use the F1-F4 to add more skills.
@OP ..
You know why the classes really fail and why you got bored,the same reason i do with these games>>>SOLO game play.
Everything is designed to play solo by yourself.I do not see the reason to have internet and login to a game that calls itself a MMO if i am going to play solo and/or with characters that are designed around solo play.Once you design it it like that it doesn't even matter anymore if i am in a group because my character design is to rely on nobody but myself.
You won't worry about HARDCORE or if your personal build is o/p or good enough when you are in a group all that matters is that you have fun playing your class and that your group can succeed.When you remove the "ME" factor from gaming and make it about working TOGETHER it brings gaming to a whole new level of fun and community.THAT is what is missing from all modern MMO's.
I will use an example of when i played FFXI the first several years.I almost NEVER saw silly chat,the nonsense we know we see in game chat all the time.When i played other solo designed games chat was an infestation of nonsense.I beleive it is because soloing players often just stand around doing nothing get bored and infest chat.When we were grouping in FFXI there was no time for random chat only inside your group.Also with so much help needed chat was just full of players forming groups and asking fro help,it made chat more abot uthe game and less about your mom jokes or whatever other nonsense we see.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I had the exact same experience with ESO. My only difference is when I went back to play FFXIV and GW2 I actually was able to play them again for the an extended period. I was unable to play ESO for more than an hour when I went back. I really don't know why, but I think what you said is very true, "just sorta lost the "oomph" to log in."
Wow you described the way I feel, newer games have lost the hook and I think one of the problems is the constant nerf. I was playing GW2 and I was having a good time and then the nerf started and I just lost the desire to log in, but that was just one thing, there are other things that I cannot express that make me feel like not loging.
want 7 free days of playing? Try this
http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY
While I have no issue with anyone wanting more skills to play around with the reality is that in most games with 20+ skills most people(not all) end up spamming the same 5 skill rotation over and over. I just adjust my mindset to the game at hand. I look at it as I need to be very selective with what 5 skills and 1 ultimate I need to get the most out of my character for any given situation. I guess to each his own though.
No signature, I don't have a pen
Bow skill last time I played when I subbed back in October was still clunky. The overall combat got better but its still too slow for my personal tastes with an Action Combat system.
5 slot Hotbar is too small as well. 8-10 is the sweet spot IMO. Fewer then that and it feels boring, more then that and it feels like I'm playing a simulator instead of a game.
4 Character Classes is about 8 too few for me. There needs to be many more (or do away with classes and have any character be able to access any skill line. Then add on about 12 or so more skill lines then it will be good.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Actually there's difference between offering criticism and just bashing. All you are doing is just dropping a few negative lines in different ESO threads. This game is far from being perfect but trolling doesn't make it any better. OP took his time to write up his concerns and while I don't agree with many I agree with some.
My 3 years using 40 abilities on my 360 controller for SWTOR says differently. I can't believe people still use this absolutely carp excuse. You are 100% wrong and I'm tired of re-iterating the fact to people on these forums.
Cheers,
BadOrb.
PSO 4 years , EQOA 4 months , PSU 7 years , SWTOR launch ongoing , PSO2 SEA launch ongoing , Destiny 360 launch ongoing.
"SWG was not fun. Let it go buddy." quote from iiNoSkillzii 10/18/13
The original propoganda pixie dust villain :[]
I find this annoying.
ESO was always a terrible idea for a game.
ES is great - one of the best SINGLE PLAYER RPG franchises ever. An ES VI would've been great. ES VI with small scale co-op you could host yourself to retain what makes ES great (impact of decisions, rich content, personal experiences) would've been insane.
I love Skyrim. So do a few of my friends. If we could've played Skyrim together it would've been amazing, as one of the few negatives about it is not being able to share something so cool with a few close friends. [mod edit] One of the best parts about Skyrm/ES is the intimacy and that's shot once you have 30 people crowding around a quest giver or an empty dungeon waiting on respawns or fighting for kills with bots.
ES as an MMORPG was just a dumb idea.
What's annoying is that because they went subscription based and produced a steaming pile of dookie, it makes subs look bad, and makes all the F2P give me everything for nothing fanbois froth.
There's nothing wrong with subs - it's a great model for GOOD GAMES worth subbing to. MMORPG history is littered with horrible games that make the whole genre look bad, and which make subs look bad, and ESO is just another example of an MMORPG that should never have been made.
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
P2P, B2P, or F2P is not enough to fix the fundamental problems that exists in this lackluster themepark game with ok combat and decent character advancement.
If ESO was more Skyrim than MMO, I think it would have done better for a lot of us.
I think the only thing I enjoyed was the PVP, and even that had problems...
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
And this is the problem in a nutshell, a problem I and others have stated on many occasions. MMO's have no place on a console due to the restrictions of the controller. Not only do you lose the ability bars, but you seriously impact the social aspect of the game due to the simple lack of a keyb. You only have to look at Defiance or Destiny (not teally an MMO but you get the point) to see how console design impacts the social side of the game.
Trying to port MMO's to console inevitably leads to a watered down, dumbed down, antisocial clusterfuck.
2 biggest reasons to not play for me:
1. The state of the game that sounds appealing and functional is reliant upon future patches and fixes. These always seem to be "in the future" and now delayed greatly by the B2P transition.
2. Limited skill options. I agree with the OP that no matter how you look at it (along side many of things I do like about the game) playing ESO as an mmo player is like riding a single geared bike on training wheels. The system imo works far better with stamina builds as the action based combat mechanics offer you far greater benefits and options. As a magicka spell caster you are limited to the same amount of skills which destroys the very concept of a mage class. Casters, as far back as D&D 1st edition, have always been about using the utility of their spells. They cannot use physical options like charge, disarm, grapple, etc which all men-at-arms have access to (much like stamina users in ESO) and therefore rely upon their unique class abilities and spells. ESO guts this entirely by making them play exactly like warrior types due to a limited system.
People constantly say that being forced to spend stamina on dodge, block and sprint limits them. NO IT DOES NOT! Everyone has to use these options at times and stamina users can use them nearly indefinitely if they have an ounce of intelligence in build design.
To play a mage in ESO is to constantly feel like the powers you want to call upon are not in reach. Stamina builds have been buffed over many patches but the shift has now gone too far. Mage builds were always forced to exist within a far too rigid format. An independent issue to stamina. Fixing stamina is one thing but to further limit mage builds on top of existing mechanics to simply too much for me to accept.
You stay sassy!
So wait you make what would have to be a pretty convoluted set-up for yourself ( i assume with xpadder) and that's proof that it would work for commercial use?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You either are able to adapt to a control scheme or you are not. All gamers have had to do it for one game or another or on one platform or another depending on the control scheme. Is it that it's not possible or is it that gamers should not have to change or have any learning/comfort curve for anything?
No signature, I don't have a pen
It's not about that, it's about the scheme being intuitive and easily adapted to. If we're talking small niche products you can do anything you want, but games built for the massive, need to incorporate intuitive designs, otherwise they shoot their own foot off. If it's easily fumbled or uncomfortable, it will not catch on.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I understand that but then again I also hope I never become that static of an individual.
No signature, I don't have a pen
I wouldn't say it's being static in this case, we're talking putting 40 commands into 8 buttons. In a game with some twitch as well as PVP focus. That's a lot of button combinations to map out, learn and adapt to...on top of executing quickly.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Correct me if I'm wrong but in FF XIV you end up with quite a few skills mapped to crossbars and it seems to work quite well to me. It's all about getting used to control scheme until it becomes second nature. There will always be some limitations of course but I don't think it in any way makes MMOs not viable on consoles with controllers and many more than 6 mapped skills.
No signature, I don't have a pen