Originally posted by Arawulf This game has really caught my interest. There are so many aspects of the game that have not been revealed (intentionally). Community discussion seems to be key to their development process, so I'm curious about this: what could Crowfall announce about their game that would make you suddenly go, "Nope!"?
Interesting topic.
Most gamers by now have a laundry list of things they do not llike...as the list fills up they move on
My list
1. Graphic syle. To much anime style in combat or other aspects = bad in my opinion
2. Pay to Win. If you can purchase an item that makes you rich or gives you a stat advantage to others = fail
3. Bad UI and rough (alpha) style gameplay with bugs after you purchase = bad
4. No under water combat. I feel a good mmo should have underwater combat in 2015.
5. not deep enough... the storyline or PvE elements are not well thought out.
6. There is no feeling of endgame. Progression and PvE, PvP, PvPvE with resources and locations all battled for should be important
7. Dev cycle that keeps bumping the completion date.
8. No feeling of needing to group for many encounters. It's an MMORPG....the fun is in playing with your friends and guild...not by yourself all the time.
9. Downtime. You can tell when a game comes out half baked due to daily patches to fix 300+ things and game downtime is more than uptime.
This is a short list. The list gets longer the more you remember all the failures.
Originally posted by Arawulf This game has really caught my interest. There are so many aspects of the game that have not been revealed (intentionally). Community discussion seems to be key to their development process, so I'm curious about this: what could Crowfall announce about their game that would make you suddenly go, "Nope!"?
The sudden out of no where hype on this game.
Last few games that developed big hype became duds, so when I hear a game getting big hype I turn away from it. Let's see how it is 30-60 days after launch.
Originally posted by Necropsie Open world, ffa full loot pvp. S?mple. This "system" is only for some little niche crowd and they already have their games (Darkfall for example). So if you want your game as a small, indie-like project with no hope of success, exactly do this system.
The little niche crowd is apparently the focus of almost all of the top 20 upcoming games (this sites list). EQN being the big exception as they are going after the masses, but even then it will have PVP of some sort and a lot of the systems in place are coming from PVP type games that aren't too friendly to the typical PVE themepark crowd.
Obviously there will be various forms of PVP and what not, but most seem highly focused on player conflict and putting the power in player hands. Who knows if any or all will become "successful" but should be a lot of fun to find out.
FTP, Cash shop rape, themepark rails, top down isometrics, no 3rd person, another unfinished game released too soon, with fixes and content that come far too late after 3/4 of the population have already quit = Buh bai
Bring back good sub mmos that are finished, bug free and WORTH subbing!
SOE changes name to Daybreak games, cause dey break games.
I'm betting it'll be when it releases and falls short of just about every feature on their hypetrain laundry list. That'll be the moment when I officially say NO TY. Up until then, I'm sure it'll be the game of everyone's hope and dreams.
That seems to be how MMO's go these days.
"This is going to be the best game ever!"
"It's only Alpha, they're going to add X and Y and Z!"
"It's only Beta, plenty of time for changes!"
"Launch is still a week away, they've promised a miracle patch."
"OMG I love it, it's a breath of fresh air!"
2 weeks later
"Well if they had just done this and this and this and that, it would have been a great game. Thanks a lot Blizzard, you ruined the MMO industry. Also, you too Obama, for ruining stuffs."
Yes, really getting tired of this circular fail wagon that mmos have been launching off of for the last 10 years.
lets ad to this:
"It's only in alpha, but pay us 150.00 for a cash grab and gain awesome early access. We promise it REALLY is alpha and the game will get sooo much better in "beta" and after "launch."
Cut the BS Devs, we are tired of getting screwed over by this new business model of fake betas and fake alpha cash grabs and the constant release of unfinished and buggy games with no content. What ever happed to the old real beta testing where you had to actually apply, get approved, play for free, and actually TEST the game while submitting daily bug reports.
SOE changes name to Daybreak games, cause dey break games.
I'm immediately hooked because they have centaurs as an archetype... and opening archetype. That immediately tells me their breaking free from the humanoid bound archetypes I'm tired of seeing in fantasy.
I think I'd give this a try no matter what just because of that, but if I find the income model and game play related to such to be abusive than I'll have to forfeit that dream. It's become a huge problem with MMOs lately thinking they can subject players to bad sales schemes and ruin the game play just to make money. I'm very conscious of a producers need to make an earning product, and I expect to pay well for a satisfying product, but trying to wrench money from players through duress just defeats the purpose of playing, and I won't do it.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
MMOs always start out as these abstract "saviors" of the genre.
For every detail that's revealed as it comes into focus, there's a chance it's going to step on one of my "landmines" and kill 100% of my enthusiasm. And then I'll vanish, never to give it another thought. It's why I've tended to not to get excited about MMORPGs for the past 12 years.
My landmines, in order of severity (hint: they are all IMMERSION-BREAKING landlmines):
Instancing. When I can't run down into any big damn dungeon and somehow run into some random survivor down there, working his way out after camping an undocumented mob, work together to further explore, and make a friend who lasts for decades, then I reject the game. There is no reason not to make more dungeons, or stronger death penalties, if overcrowding is some concern.
Real life money can give my character a benefit, cosmetic or otherwise. I play across the spectrum of reasons to play MMORPGs (social, achiever, explorer, etc) and working hard within the game to appear socially attractive is just as important as any other goal.
The death penalty is too soft. Usually, this means there is no loss of anything. Just an experience debt. Or pay a small fee for repairs. Or, worse, nothing at all! Death penalty is the most critical ingredient in making a game immersive since it makes you feel damn well aware of everything your character does at all times.
Items in inventory do not have in-game representations (cannot be dropped, or cannot be represented by putting them into the environment). It used to be obvious that a developer would allow items to be dropped into the game world if they had the resources to do it. Now, it's considered too much trouble because it presents a way to allow glitching, griefing, exploits, and other nonsense to ensue. Not being able to take things and set them down in-game is a complete fail. System Shock 2 absolutely owned because of this interaction. Ultima Online did it in 1997, so figure it the f- out.
No interaction between players. Friendly-fire turned off. When you can't bop your friend on the back of the head for 1 HP of damage to get their attention, that's a totally flat, boring, one-dimensional game. The Priest of Discord experiment in EQ (as well as Tramel/Felucca in UO, and 100% safe zones in various other games) showed us that giving people a choice totally fragments the game. Instead, create a spectrum of risks and rewards, punishments and reputations, and the dynamic ruleset necessary to deal with the threat of evil players.
This is why I haven't MMORPGed for 12 years, yet I still call myself an MMORPGer. I just need a certain level of immersive quality not seen since UO, trailing off with EQ, and finally hollowly glimmering in DAOC.
I can generally live with anything else to various degrees, but any small immersion-breaking offenses equate to a no-go on my part.
MMOs always start out as these abstract "saviors" of the genre.
For every detail that's revealed as it comes into focus, there's a chance it's going to step on one of my "landmines" and kill 100% of my enthusiasm. And then I'll vanish, never to give it another thought. It's why I've tended to not to get excited about MMORPGs for the past 12 years.
My landmines, in order of severity (hint: they are all IMMERSION-BREAKING landlmines):
Instancing. When I can't run down into any big damn dungeon and somehow run into some random survivor down there, working his way out after camping an undocumented mob, work together to further explore, and make a friend who lasts for decades, then I reject the game. There is no reason not to make more dungeons, or stronger death penalties, if overcrowding is some concern.
Real life money can give my character a benefit, cosmetic or otherwise. I play across the spectrum of reasons to play MMORPGs (social, achiever, explorer, etc) and working hard within the game to appear socially attractive is just as important as any other goal.
The death penalty is too soft. Usually, this means there is no loss of anything. Just an experience debt. Or pay a small fee for repairs. Or, worse, nothing at all! Death penalty is the most critical ingredient in making a game immersive since it makes you feel damn well aware of everything your character does at all times.
Items in inventory do not have in-game representations (cannot be dropped, or cannot be represented by putting them into the environment). It used to be obvious that a developer would allow items to be dropped into the game world if they had the resources to do it. Now, it's considered too much trouble because it presents a way to allow glitching, griefing, exploits, and other nonsense to ensue. Not being able to take things and set them down in-game is a complete fail. System Shock 2 absolutely owned because of this interaction. Ultima Online did it in 1997, so figure it the f- out.
No interaction between players. Friendly-fire turned off. When you can't bop your friend on the back of the head for 1 HP of damage to get their attention, that's a totally flat, boring, one-dimensional game. The Priest of Discord experiment in EQ (as well as Tramel/Felucca in UO, and 100% safe zones in various other games) showed us that giving people a choice totally fragments the game. Instead, create a spectrum of risks and rewards, punishments and reputations, and the dynamic ruleset necessary to deal with the threat of evil players.
This is why I haven't MMORPGed for 12 years, yet I still call myself an MMORPGer. I just need a certain level of immersive quality not seen since UO, trailing off with EQ, and finally hollowly glimmering in DAOC.
I can generally live with anything else to various degrees, but any small immersion-breaking offenses equate to a no-go on my part.
Originally posted by Arawulf This game has really caught my interest. There are so many aspects of the game that have not been revealed (intentionally). Community discussion seems to be key to their development process, so I'm curious about this: what could Crowfall announce about their game that would make you suddenly go, "Nope!"?
If its another fail2play game with the welfare gaming crowd and leeches.
Sandbox games don't work with fail2play. AA anyone?
The name. Crowfall is a very silly name. What's with all the attention this game is getting? It feels like this website needs to have at least 1 MMO which everyone just hypes up. Too much hype.
It's probably another run of the mill of MMO which will be boring as shit and people will forget in about 1 month after release. But of course we need another MMO to hype. Cause AA and all the other mediocre MMOs before it were not enough.
But yeah I am not playing a game which is called Crowfall. What a silly name. If it was called dog shit, it probably would have been just as appealing lol.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Because campaigns are finite in length..repeatedly re-fighting the same battle may erode interest in continuing to fight.
Guild War 2...ESO ava....come to mind
**** If there is player looting...I definitely would not play
***** If the game is action oriented ie twitch play where the fastest player fingers win fights...if fighting entails animation cancelling(that ESO has)...I would probably never even try the game.
every game that has offered founders packs has sucked. There is a pure one to one correlation between offering founders packs and a game being terrible. If they offer founders packs that tells me everything I need to know about how good the game will be. I have never once regretted not buying founders packs.
While it is theoretically possible that this is the one game that will both offer founders packs and not be terrible the likelihood is so small that it's like worrying I'll be hit by a meteor.
I'll try most anything that calls itself a sandbox and incorporates PVP along with either full loot drop/destruction or some other inventive way to make crafting relevant.
I'll quit if it lacks a solid PVE game.
As far as "No thank you,"
If I see PVE servers announced i'll probably not bother trying it.
Originally posted by Arawulf This game has really caught my interest. There are so many aspects of the game that have not been revealed (intentionally). Community discussion seems to be key to their development process, so I'm curious about this: what could Crowfall announce about their game that would make you suddenly go, "Nope!"?
Asking money for something that is yet on drawing board: No thanks, you have to work harder
Comments
Interesting topic.
Most gamers by now have a laundry list of things they do not llike...as the list fills up they move on
My list
1. Graphic syle. To much anime style in combat or other aspects = bad in my opinion
2. Pay to Win. If you can purchase an item that makes you rich or gives you a stat advantage to others = fail
3. Bad UI and rough (alpha) style gameplay with bugs after you purchase = bad
4. No under water combat. I feel a good mmo should have underwater combat in 2015.
5. not deep enough... the storyline or PvE elements are not well thought out.
6. There is no feeling of endgame. Progression and PvE, PvP, PvPvE with resources and locations all battled for should be important
7. Dev cycle that keeps bumping the completion date.
8. No feeling of needing to group for many encounters. It's an MMORPG....the fun is in playing with your friends and guild...not by yourself all the time.
9. Downtime. You can tell when a game comes out half baked due to daily patches to fix 300+ things and game downtime is more than uptime.
This is a short list. The list gets longer the more you remember all the failures.
The sudden out of no where hype on this game.
Last few games that developed big hype became duds, so when I hear a game getting big hype I turn away from it. Let's see how it is 30-60 days after launch.
The little niche crowd is apparently the focus of almost all of the top 20 upcoming games (this sites list). EQN being the big exception as they are going after the masses, but even then it will have PVP of some sort and a lot of the systems in place are coming from PVP type games that aren't too friendly to the typical PVE themepark crowd.
Obviously there will be various forms of PVP and what not, but most seem highly focused on player conflict and putting the power in player hands. Who knows if any or all will become "successful" but should be a lot of fun to find out.
FTP, Cash shop rape, themepark rails, top down isometrics, no 3rd person, another unfinished game released too soon, with fixes and content that come far too late after 3/4 of the population have already quit = Buh bai
Bring back good sub mmos that are finished, bug free and WORTH subbing!
Yes, really getting tired of this circular fail wagon that mmos have been launching off of for the last 10 years.
lets ad to this:
"It's only in alpha, but pay us 150.00 for a cash grab and gain awesome early access. We promise it REALLY is alpha and the game will get sooo much better in "beta" and after "launch."
Cut the BS Devs, we are tired of getting screwed over by this new business model of fake betas and fake alpha cash grabs and the constant release of unfinished and buggy games with no content. What ever happed to the old real beta testing where you had to actually apply, get approved, play for free, and actually TEST the game while submitting daily bug reports.
I'm immediately hooked because they have centaurs as an archetype... and opening archetype. That immediately tells me their breaking free from the humanoid bound archetypes I'm tired of seeing in fantasy.
I think I'd give this a try no matter what just because of that, but if I find the income model and game play related to such to be abusive than I'll have to forfeit that dream. It's become a huge problem with MMOs lately thinking they can subject players to bad sales schemes and ruin the game play just to make money. I'm very conscious of a producers need to make an earning product, and I expect to pay well for a satisfying product, but trying to wrench money from players through duress just defeats the purpose of playing, and I won't do it.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, if they get angry, they'll be a mile away... and barefoot.
MMOs always start out as these abstract "saviors" of the genre.
For every detail that's revealed as it comes into focus, there's a chance it's going to step on one of my "landmines" and kill 100% of my enthusiasm. And then I'll vanish, never to give it another thought. It's why I've tended to not to get excited about MMORPGs for the past 12 years.
My landmines, in order of severity (hint: they are all IMMERSION-BREAKING landlmines):
This is why I haven't MMORPGed for 12 years, yet I still call myself an MMORPGer. I just need a certain level of immersive quality not seen since UO, trailing off with EQ, and finally hollowly glimmering in DAOC.
I can generally live with anything else to various degrees, but any small immersion-breaking offenses equate to a no-go on my part.
Amen, brother.
If its another fail2play game with the welfare gaming crowd and leeches.
Sandbox games don't work with fail2play. AA anyone?
The name. Crowfall is a very silly name. What's with all the attention this game is getting? It feels like this website needs to have at least 1 MMO which everyone just hypes up. Too much hype.
It's probably another run of the mill of MMO which will be boring as shit and people will forget in about 1 month after release. But of course we need another MMO to hype. Cause AA and all the other mediocre MMOs before it were not enough.
But yeah I am not playing a game which is called Crowfall. What a silly name. If it was called dog shit, it probably would have been just as appealing lol.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
shouldn't the question be, what makes me say YES to that game? ^^
in general i rather need a reason to play a game, than not to play it...
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Because campaigns are finite in length..repeatedly re-fighting the same battle may erode interest in continuing to fight.
Guild War 2...ESO ava....come to mind
**** If there is player looting...I definitely would not play
***** If the game is action oriented ie twitch play where the fastest player fingers win fights...if fighting entails animation cancelling(that ESO has)...I would probably never even try the game.
every game that has offered founders packs has sucked. There is a pure one to one correlation between offering founders packs and a game being terrible. If they offer founders packs that tells me everything I need to know about how good the game will be. I have never once regretted not buying founders packs.
While it is theoretically possible that this is the one game that will both offer founders packs and not be terrible the likelihood is so small that it's like worrying I'll be hit by a meteor.
It's been said a hundred times but it's never enough for this, sorry:
Cash-shop/Microtransactions
I'll try most anything that calls itself a sandbox and incorporates PVP along with either full loot drop/destruction or some other inventive way to make crafting relevant.
I'll quit if it lacks a solid PVE game.
As far as "No thank you,"
If I see PVE servers announced i'll probably not bother trying it.
Asking money for something that is yet on drawing board: No thanks, you have to work harder
Keep it pure PvP or pure PvE.
It's the themeparks that attempt to cater all that have crashed 'n burned lately.
PvP is dynamic and keeps the game fresh. Nowdays PvE is dull because of the spammed guides on youtube and the constant need to min/max.
Crowfall is interesting especially because of the PvP focus just like Camelot Unchained.
Different server rulesets is big no for me. I want well thought game with one type of server for everyone.
1) Extensive cash shop with P2W items;
2) FFA PvP.
blizzards,EA,arenanet -style dumbing down features = instant perma no thanks.
So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
**On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **
- no full loot pvp
- safe zones
- no forced pvp
-forced to be a carebear
- no perm death
- casual non hardcore pve
- Albert Einstein