Originally posted by Vonatar Soul gems in the Crown Store? If they are filled soul gems then that's on the edge. You can recharge enchantments on items with filled soul gems, which has an effect on stats (to a degree).
I constantly vendor soul gems to free up inventory. They drop so often that it's hardly on the edge. Filling them is extremely easy as well.
If they don't adjust drop rates, then your point in valid. We have seen SOE and Trion adjust drop rates in EQ2 and AA respectively to boost microtransactions, so we'll have to see.
You both make good points. But, for the time being soul stones (empty and filled) are super easy to acquire. Hopefully they don't change the drop rate like you said.
Originally posted by Vonatar Soul gems in the Crown Store? If they are filled soul gems then that's on the edge. You can recharge enchantments on items with filled soul gems, which has an effect on stats (to a degree).
I constantly vendor soul gems to free up inventory. They drop so often that it's hardly on the edge. Filling them is extremely easy as well.
If they don't adjust drop rates, then your point in valid. We have seen SOE and Trion adjust drop rates in EQ2 and AA respectively to boost microtransactions, so we'll have to see.
You both make good points. But, for the time being soul stones (empty and filled) are super easy to acquire. Hopefully they don't change the drop rate like you said.
eeh 3k will buy you 30 empty soul gems. Heck you'll have 3k by level 8... Fill those and put a couple points into the soul magic passive that gives a 10% chance per kill to fill a soul gem. You'll never run out.
Originally posted by Vonatar Soul gems in the Crown Store? If they are filled soul gems then that's on the edge. You can recharge enchantments on items with filled soul gems, which has an effect on stats (to a degree).
I constantly vendor soul gems to free up inventory. They drop so often that it's hardly on the edge. Filling them is extremely easy as well.
That is all well and good but Turbine have put Tin ingots on npcs and taken the tin nodes from out of the world space. They have removed all the emotes and they are now in the cash shop as well as riding skills.
My guess is that they will remove soul gems from the world space when it goes live or soon after to force people to use the cash shop to buy soul gems.
Also crafting will die for alchemists due to the health and magicka potions being on the cash shop and that we will never see them complete the alchemy crafting and put in player made poisons.
Repair kits will be removed from the game world and only available on the cash shop.
Then when they want more money they will remove half the skyshards and put them into the cash shop so you won't have to roam around and look for them.
Honestly I love ESO as a game but with these changes I hope it shuts down due to lack of players spending money.
Originally posted by jpaprocki This cash shop reminds me of how lotros started and look at it today! It won't be long before you start seeing crafting supplies and some things that people will call questionable "P2W" items. The only question is how long will it take?
Selective memory much? This is an overview of the different options after it went F2P from Oct 2010
What does that have to do with anything I said? That has nothing to do with the craft shop. Perhaps you should learn to read?
I've been playing LotRO since March 2007. This cash shop is nothing like LotROs was when it started or it is now.
I have been playing LOTRO since March 2007 also and I see the similarities. Are they identical shops? No. However both games are approaching the shop pretty much the same in key aspects. In both games, if you subscribe you get access to all regions, quests, and features of the base game. In both games, if you subscribe you get a monthly allowance of special, non-refundable currency that is used specifically in their cash shop. That is where they are alike. Not to mention LOTRO has had a little over 4 years to add to their cash shop. Yes, LOTRO's starting shop was more extensive, but Turbine already had an idea of what sold in cash shops and how to implement them from DDO. Since ESO and LOTRO seem to function the same way with regards to the sub, it's fair to say that their shop could develop the same overtime. Some people seem to get really bent out of shape though when the thought of associating ESO with any type of f2p game. It was that way before the b2p announcement and it is still that way.
One huge difference that you seem to be ignoring is that LOTRO crippled the lesser accounts in significant ways to heavily encourage use of the cash shop - which is just par for the course for F2P games that NEED the cash shop sales to survive.
And as long as we're throwing our LOTRO credentials around, I was there at the beginning and in beta as well.
As to bent out of shape... the only thing that annoys me is lies whether explicit or by omission to try to shoehorn a comparison where it doesn't fit. LOTRO went F2P with all that entails, ESO is not going F2P... there is a difference.
ESO is going free to play. Why call it buy to play when you have already bought the damn game?
For thoses of us who owns the game already it is free to play now. So this " Its not going F2P its B2P " argument falls flat on its face.
Obviously you are just trolling now. B2p is not an argument. It is not free for players who have already purchased it, they will be able to keep playing without additional costs, unless they want to play dlc.
How does lotro dumbing down crafting have anything to do with eso transition to b2p? Tin ingots were previously nodes in the environment are instead sold by vendor so what? Nothing to do with lotro store. Also you are wrong about emotes, there are dozens of free emotes it is just a few new ones being sold in the store. Emotes were not removed from players. Riding skill is free for subscribers, they can do a quest for it. F2p need to pay for it, it is one of the pay walls for f2p.
"Cash shops allow the developers to add numbers to their paycheck and when everyone else is doing it around you and getting away with it, you look like the sucker for not doing it."
I am sure there is an element of that unfortunately.
@Yasha - The problem with games you are not playing is it is hard to know what is going on with the cash shop. I would have put forward PoE myself but not played it in ages so not sure the cash shop is OK, same for TSW. TERRA already had some P2W elements when I played it. GW2 and Secret World were alright when I left but again what's in the cash shop now?
The vast majority of MMO's go down the exploitation route, would be interesting to hear from players of TSW and GW2 what they think about the cash shops there. I certainly agree with you that B2P is a better option than F2P. The focus in a F2P game becomes solely the cash shop as it is the only source of income.
ESO is going free to play. Why call it buy to play when you have already bought the damn game?
For thoses of us who owns the game already it is free to play now. So this " Its not going F2P its B2P " argument falls flat on its face.
The difference is where the developers get their income from and what they have to do to get it. Ignoring that difference that dictates how cash shops are run and what's in them is just... ignorant.
Maybe you can't tell the difference but intelligent people can.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
You know this means repair kits are going to become rare outside of the shop right?
LOL... repair kits are not free drops nor do many people even bother with them. Any vendor in game that sells anything has a cheap "repair all" option which is what everyone uses and they all carry repair kits you can buy if you want to do that. Good try though...
Wouldn´t surprise me if they going to remove that "repair all" feature either all together or remove it for free players.
They put those repair kits in there for a reason, so no worries. They going to make adjustments in the game to make these kits viable.
Maybe they will and maybe they won't. But it's pretty obvious they've done a good job if the only thing the doom and gloom crowd can find to bitch about is what they might do in the future... it's actually kind of funny watching ya'll scrambling.
So Mr "ESO is going to sell 10 million copies" you cant help but continue to white knight no matter what can you?
Anyone, and I mean ANYONE that has gone through a transition from subscription to B2P or F2P can tell you that things always turn for the worse, there has never been a single game that didn't do what I described to simple things like this.
Your continual denial of reality is rather pathetic, yet funny, as you transition from game to game clinging on to the same delusions instead of waking up and holding companies responsible or at least TRYING to get them to stop making such idiotic changes that end up hurting them more in the end.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
As players we already know they have gone far beyond this and they plan to expand it more. Anybody that defends ESO is just setting themselves up for heartbreak, or has their head stuck in the sand. If ESO actually cared about their players, then there wouldn't be items that adjust basic gameplay.
As players we already know they have gone far beyond this and they plan to expand it more. Anybody that defends ESO is just setting themselves up for heartbreak, or has their head stuck in the sand. If ESO actually cared about their players, then there wouldn't be items that adjust basic gameplay.
Indeed, it is hard to see in PoE anything other than new skins you can buy. My prediction would be that ESO has a P2W cash shop within a year of launch, that's about average from what I have seen.
Well the current position - based on the (very long) Paul Sage interview/podcast a couple of days ago is:
nothing is decided;
they have been looking at "boundaries" (but haven't fixed them yet);
(by inference) the devs don't have the final say;
player reaction will be a factor.
Of course player reaction cuts both ways. If people don't buy 10% pots say does that mean they will scrap pots - or make the bonus 20%?
Nothing is decided.
Something I did "pick up on" - based on several answers - is that the release date is the determining factor in what will be in / not in the console release, not the "vision" laid out in the December newsletter. (Paul was pretty sure that VR will still be in for example.)
So Mr "ESO is going to sell 10 million copies" you cant help but continue to white knight no matter what can you?
Except he wasn't the person who said that the game was going to sell 10 million copies.
Yes, that infamous, if hilarious statement was made by Knotwood, but, in fairness, who isn't equally fallible? at best we've all made predictions at one time or another, that can end up just as invalid as that one was
You know this means repair kits are going to become rare outside of the shop right?
LOL... repair kits are not free drops nor do many people even bother with them. Any vendor in game that sells anything has a cheap "repair all" option which is what everyone uses and they all carry repair kits you can buy if you want to do that. Good try though...
Wouldn´t surprise me if they going to remove that "repair all" feature either all together or remove it for free players.
They put those repair kits in there for a reason, so no worries. They going to make adjustments in the game to make these kits viable.
Maybe they will and maybe they won't. But it's pretty obvious they've done a good job if the only thing the doom and gloom crowd can find to bitch about is what they might do in the future... it's actually kind of funny watching ya'll scrambling.
So Mr "ESO is going to sell 10 million copies" you cant help but continue to white knight no matter what can you?
Anyone, and I mean ANYONE that has gone through a transition from subscription to B2P or F2P can tell you that things always turn for the worse, there has never been a single game that didn't do what I described to simple things like this.
Your continual denial of reality is rather pathetic, yet funny, as you transition from game to game clinging on to the same delusions instead of waking up and holding companies responsible or at least TRYING to get them to stop making such idiotic changes that end up hurting them more in the end.
LOL... Like I said, scrambling to hate and troll based on yet more predictions. BTW, TSW would like a word with you
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
So Mr "ESO is going to sell 10 million copies" you cant help but continue to white knight no matter what can you?
Except he wasn't the person who said that the game was going to sell 10 million copies.
Yes, that infamous, if hilarious statement was made by Knotwood, but, in fairness, who isn't equally fallible? at best we've all made predictions at one time or another, that can end up just as invalid as that one was
I have no idea how many console units they'll eventually sell. But I do know that now that it's B2P, it will be more than they would have with a sub. Who knows? Maybe Knotwood will have the last laugh in the end
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Well the current position - based on the (very long) Paul Sage interview/podcast a couple of days ago is:
nothing is decided;
they have been looking at "boundaries" (but haven't fixed them yet);
(by inference) the devs don't have the final say;
player reaction will be a factor.
Of course player reaction cuts both ways. If people don't buy 10% pots say does that mean they will scrap pots - or make the bonus 20%?
Nothing is decided.
Something I did "pick up on" - based on several answers - is that the release date is the determining factor in what will be in / not in the console release, not the "vision" laid out in the December newsletter. (Paul was pretty sure that VR will still be in for example.)
Yeah I heard the same podcast. Sounds like the elimination of VR is 4-6 months away... and that sucks. If they release the console version with VR included, that'd be a pretty good indication that they're backing away from eliminating it.
The way they're presenting the cash shop at the moment is also a good indication that they're aware of the potential negative publicity of putting controversial items in there. The last thing they need is any negative press around the time they're hawking console boxes. They want to launch that in as positive an environment as they can create.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by Vonatar Soul gems in the Crown Store? If they are filled soul gems then that's on the edge. You can recharge enchantments on items with filled soul gems, which has an effect on stats (to a degree).
I constantly vendor soul gems to free up inventory. They drop so often that it's hardly on the edge. Filling them is extremely easy as well.
If they don't adjust drop rates, then your point in valid. We have seen SOE and Trion adjust drop rates in EQ2 and AA respectively to boost microtransactions, so we'll have to see.
You both make good points. But, for the time being soul stones (empty and filled) are super easy to acquire. Hopefully they don't change the drop rate like you said.
eeh 3k will buy you 30 empty soul gems. Heck you'll have 3k by level 8... Fill those and put a couple points into the soul magic passive that gives a 10% chance per kill to fill a soul gem. You'll never run out.
Don't even need to do that. I picked up so many empty (and sometimes filled) soul stones off regular mobs. I never bought any other then maybe 8-10 right after making a new character and getting to the first starting city.
Originally posted by Vonatar Soul gems in the Crown Store? If they are filled soul gems then that's on the edge. You can recharge enchantments on items with filled soul gems, which has an effect on stats (to a degree).
I constantly vendor soul gems to free up inventory. They drop so often that it's hardly on the edge. Filling them is extremely easy as well.
That is all well and good but Turbine have put Tin ingots on npcs and taken the tin nodes from out of the world space. They have removed all the emotes and they are now in the cash shop as well as riding skills.
My guess is that they will remove soul gems from the world space when it goes live or soon after to force people to use the cash shop to buy soul gems.
Also crafting will die for alchemists due to the health and magicka potions being on the cash shop and that we will never see them complete the alchemy crafting and put in player made poisons.
Repair kits will be removed from the game world and only available on the cash shop.
Then when they want more money they will remove half the skyshards and put them into the cash shop so you won't have to roam around and look for them.
Honestly I love ESO as a game but with these changes I hope it shuts down due to lack of players spending money.
You sure are making a lot of assumptions about something you really have no idea how it will turn out yet. The truth is, if ESO was going F2P. I would probably agree with what you said. But, being that it's B2P. I doubt they will go this direction.
ESO is going free to play. Why call it buy to play when you have already bought the damn game?
For thoses of us who owns the game already it is free to play now. So this " Its not going F2P its B2P " argument falls flat on its face.
The difference is where the developers get their income from and what they have to do to get it. Ignoring that difference that dictates how cash shops are run and what's in them is just... ignorant.
Maybe you can't tell the difference but intelligent people can.
Thank you for posting this. You beat me to it. I really didn't think this was so difficult for people to understand. I suppose not everyone comprehends information as accurately as others.
Comments
You both make good points. But, for the time being soul stones (empty and filled) are super easy to acquire. Hopefully they don't change the drop rate like you said.
eeh 3k will buy you 30 empty soul gems. Heck you'll have 3k by level 8... Fill those and put a couple points into the soul magic passive that gives a 10% chance per kill to fill a soul gem. You'll never run out.
That is all well and good but Turbine have put Tin ingots on npcs and taken the tin nodes from out of the world space. They have removed all the emotes and they are now in the cash shop as well as riding skills.
My guess is that they will remove soul gems from the world space when it goes live or soon after to force people to use the cash shop to buy soul gems.
Also crafting will die for alchemists due to the health and magicka potions being on the cash shop and that we will never see them complete the alchemy crafting and put in player made poisons.
Repair kits will be removed from the game world and only available on the cash shop.
Then when they want more money they will remove half the skyshards and put them into the cash shop so you won't have to roam around and look for them.
Honestly I love ESO as a game but with these changes I hope it shuts down due to lack of players spending money.
ESO is going free to play. Why call it buy to play when you have already bought the damn game?
For thoses of us who owns the game already it is free to play now. So this " Its not going F2P its B2P " argument falls flat on its face.
Obviously you are just trolling now. B2p is not an argument. It is not free for players who have already purchased it, they will be able to keep playing without additional costs, unless they want to play dlc.
How does lotro dumbing down crafting have anything to do with eso transition to b2p? Tin ingots were previously nodes in the environment are instead sold by vendor so what? Nothing to do with lotro store. Also you are wrong about emotes, there are dozens of free emotes it is just a few new ones being sold in the store. Emotes were not removed from players. Riding skill is free for subscribers, they can do a quest for it. F2p need to pay for it, it is one of the pay walls for f2p.
You are wrong on every count.
"Cash shops allow the developers to add numbers to their paycheck and when everyone else is doing it around you and getting away with it, you look like the sucker for not doing it."
I am sure there is an element of that unfortunately.
@Yasha - The problem with games you are not playing is it is hard to know what is going on with the cash shop. I would have put forward PoE myself but not played it in ages so not sure the cash shop is OK, same for TSW. TERRA already had some P2W elements when I played it. GW2 and Secret World were alright when I left but again what's in the cash shop now?
The vast majority of MMO's go down the exploitation route, would be interesting to hear from players of TSW and GW2 what they think about the cash shops there. I certainly agree with you that B2P is a better option than F2P. The focus in a F2P game becomes solely the cash shop as it is the only source of income.
The difference is where the developers get their income from and what they have to do to get it. Ignoring that difference that dictates how cash shops are run and what's in them is just... ignorant.
Maybe you can't tell the difference but intelligent people can.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
So Mr "ESO is going to sell 10 million copies" you cant help but continue to white knight no matter what can you?
Anyone, and I mean ANYONE that has gone through a transition from subscription to B2P or F2P can tell you that things always turn for the worse, there has never been a single game that didn't do what I described to simple things like this.
Your continual denial of reality is rather pathetic, yet funny, as you transition from game to game clinging on to the same delusions instead of waking up and holding companies responsible or at least TRYING to get them to stop making such idiotic changes that end up hurting them more in the end.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
This is what a fair cash shop looks like:
https://www.pathofexile.com/shop
As players we already know they have gone far beyond this and they plan to expand it more. Anybody that defends ESO is just setting themselves up for heartbreak, or has their head stuck in the sand. If ESO actually cared about their players, then there wouldn't be items that adjust basic gameplay.
Indeed, it is hard to see in PoE anything other than new skins you can buy. My prediction would be that ESO has a P2W cash shop within a year of launch, that's about average from what I have seen.
Well the current position - based on the (very long) Paul Sage interview/podcast a couple of days ago is:
Except he wasn't the person who said that the game was going to sell 10 million copies.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Yes, that infamous, if hilarious statement was made by Knotwood, but, in fairness, who isn't equally fallible? at best we've all made predictions at one time or another, that can end up just as invalid as that one was
LOL... Like I said, scrambling to hate and troll based on yet more predictions. BTW, TSW would like a word with you
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I have no idea how many console units they'll eventually sell. But I do know that now that it's B2P, it will be more than they would have with a sub. Who knows? Maybe Knotwood will have the last laugh in the end
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Yeah I heard the same podcast. Sounds like the elimination of VR is 4-6 months away... and that sucks. If they release the console version with VR included, that'd be a pretty good indication that they're backing away from eliminating it.
The way they're presenting the cash shop at the moment is also a good indication that they're aware of the potential negative publicity of putting controversial items in there. The last thing they need is any negative press around the time they're hawking console boxes. They want to launch that in as positive an environment as they can create.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Thank you Zenimax.
Awesome, Im very excited ESO is going BTP. I was hoping for a cashshop similar to GW2 and that seem to be what were looking @ here.
Well played sirs, well played.
These BTP games will ever remain installed; I may take a break from GW2 or TSW but there is no reason to ever really leave them.
Don't even need to do that. I picked up so many empty (and sometimes filled) soul stones off regular mobs. I never bought any other then maybe 8-10 right after making a new character and getting to the first starting city.
You sure are making a lot of assumptions about something you really have no idea how it will turn out yet. The truth is, if ESO was going F2P. I would probably agree with what you said. But, being that it's B2P. I doubt they will go this direction.
Thank you for posting this. You beat me to it. I really didn't think this was so difficult for people to understand. I suppose not everyone comprehends information as accurately as others.