I knew this Daybreak investment firm spelled BAD NEWS the minute I heard the announcement. Pardon my french, but these business motherfuckers don't give a flying fuck about games, gamers, or game creators. That's just the truth.
yes, SoE who used EQ's franchise to promote EQNext that has nothing to do with EQ really cares about games and gamers
"As part of a strategic decision to rationalize the business, Daybreak Game Company announced today that it will eliminate positions in both its San Diego and Austin studios. This alignment of resources better positions the newly independent studio for future growth opportunities and developments, including delivering on its legacy of making top online games and establishing a solid foundation for future multi-platform success. These reductions will not affect the operation of current games and the company will continue on its mission to partner with its player community to drive the future and push the boundaries of online gaming."
We will see.
Personally this is looking bad for any unfinished SOE game. However I'd say we need an expert opinion...DMKANO, what say you?
Did Trove attempt to be anything that it wasnt? Picking out something like this to compare is ridiculous. Trove is consistent with what it does and tries to be.. Landmark is not.
Originally posted by Agnostic42 I have a feeling that EQ next is dead in the water, however, if it does go on, it will be released a rushed mess meant to appease the bottom line/ red tape guys. /RIP SOE
Did Trove attempt to be anything that it wasnt? Picking out something like this to compare is ridiculous. Trove is consistent with what it does and tries to be.. Landmark is not.
What is Landmark attempting to be that it isn't?
Well, from the 2013 SOE live it was minecraft set to an EQ theme with better graphics. Thats it. Then, months later, they started talking about how they could add elements to make it into more of an mmorpg including pve and pvp. Its more or less become a testbed for idea and mechanics they intend to use in EQN.
Was Georgeson making EQN single handed? Honestly don't know if he has any actual input/impact on the games. From all the streams and what not, he appears to "play" with the tools and what the devs have made, but he doesn't seem like the master designer creating it all. Could be mistaken though.
Sucks he is gone if he was a big influence, but not seeing it.
Of course they could announce tomorrow that EQN is cancelled because without DG involved, there is no hope, but I'll wait on jumping to that conclusion.
Did Trove attempt to be anything that it wasnt? Picking out something like this to compare is ridiculous. Trove is consistent with what it does and tries to be.. Landmark is not.
What is Landmark attempting to be that it isn't?
Well, from the 2013 SOE live it was minecraft set to an EQ theme with better graphics. Thats it. Then, months later, they started talking about how they could add elements to make it into more of an mmorpg including pve and pvp. Its more or less become a testbed for idea and mechanics they intend to use in EQN.
So it is living up to what they said it would be. Long past a pretty MC and the systems added have slowly evolved and keep improving. They aren't "attempting," they are doing. Seems some need instant results or it isn't good enough.
Was Georgeson making EQN single handed? Honestly don't know if he has any actual input/impact on the games. From all the streams and what not, he appears to "play" with the tools and what the devs have made, but he doesn't seem like the master designer creating it all. Could be mistaken though.
Sucks he is gone if he was a big influence, but not seeing it.
Of course they could announce tomorrow that EQN is cancelled because without DG involved, there is no hope, but I'll wait on jumping to that conclusion.
He just managed the Everquest franchise including EQN and Landmark. Jeff Butler is the Creative Director and Terry Michaels is the Producer. His position was already unique as far as SOE went as there were no similar positions for the Planetside franchise or H1Z1 franchise. If EQ1 and EQ2 development stopped, his job just became redundant.
Did Trove attempt to be anything that it wasnt? Picking out something like this to compare is ridiculous. Trove is consistent with what it does and tries to be.. Landmark is not.
What is Landmark attempting to be that it isn't?
Well, from the 2013 SOE live it was minecraft set to an EQ theme with better graphics. Thats it. Then, months later, they started talking about how they could add elements to make it into more of an mmorpg including pve and pvp. Its more or less become a testbed for idea and mechanics they intend to use in EQN.
So it is living up to what they said it would be. Long past a pretty MC and the systems added have slowly evolved and keep improving. They aren't "attempting," they are doing. Seems some need instant results or it isn't good enough.
The point was, that wasn't what they said Landmark would be. In no shape or form. Not in the beginning at least.
I personally don't mind what they are doing with Landmark, but their ever-changing development process just seemed inconsistent to say the least, which was the point of the original remark.
He just managed the Everquest franchise including EQN and Landmark. Jeff Butler is the Creative Director and Terry Michaels is the Producer. His position was already unique as far as SOE went as there were no similar positions for the Planetside franchise or H1Z1 franchise. If EQ1 and EQ2 development stopped, his job just became redundant.
That's what I thought, but some appear to believe that DG was coming up with all the ideas, features, and sitting in the studio all day stuck to a machine.
He was the face, no doubt, but removing him probably has minimal impact on any of the games and probably why he was let go. Doubt he was on the low end of the pay scale.
Same goes for Butler and Michaels.
I'm assuming they've have a lot of say in how EQN/LM will come about, but probably less then an indie game might with team leads and devs that are responsible for individual features all on their own. Wouldn't doubt that someone could jump in and "direct" "produce" all the same with the team already creating the games.
I don't work in the game industry, but I've lost Directors, Supervisors, Managers, Presidents, etc and the company didn't crumble nor did our day to day change much. Now if someone calls out sick or left that was the only one that did a particular duty, that's where I've run into issues.
Did Trove attempt to be anything that it wasnt? Picking out something like this to compare is ridiculous. Trove is consistent with what it does and tries to be.. Landmark is not.
What is Landmark attempting to be that it isn't?
Well, from the 2013 SOE live it was minecraft set to an EQ theme with better graphics. Thats it. Then, months later, they started talking about how they could add elements to make it into more of an mmorpg including pve and pvp. Its more or less become a testbed for idea and mechanics they intend to use in EQN.
So it is living up to what they said it would be. Long past a pretty MC and the systems added have slowly evolved and keep improving. They aren't "attempting," they are doing. Seems some need instant results or it isn't good enough.
The point was, that wasn't what they said Landmark would be. In no shape or form. Not in the beginning at least.
I personally don't mind what they are doing with Landmark, but their ever-changing development process just seemed inconsistent to say the least, which was the point of the original remark.
I was responding to the use of visuals to make negative comments that some how confirm EQN/LM are doomed.
"EQ fans wanted pretty art but got crappy Voxels"
"Voxels have improved a lot"
"No they haven't and game is doomed!"
"Looks better then other Voxel game"
"That's not fair comparison"
Which goes back to the first comparison which isn't relevant or fair either. Then again, we are all just throwing out our subjective opinions so not like any of it matters at all
LM was confirmed to have a lot more then just building within a month or two of reveal I believe. Which was 1.5 years ago. Since then, they really haven't gone of course much as far as "what they said it would be." Beyond changing the name of course.
If anything is an indication of the PC based MMORPG going the way of the dodo, it's companies selling out and if SOE is willing to do it then everyone else may very well follow suit, till there is nothing left but candy crush, farmville and angry birds.
Originally posted by Vorthanion If anything is an indication of the PC based MMORPG going the way of the dodo, it's companies selling out and if SOE is willing to do it then everyone else may very well follow suit, till there is nothing left but candy crush, farmville and angry birds.
... and WoW, that giant social media application with elves.
Originally posted by BizkitNL It's way too early to make any kind of statements. But don't let that stop y'all from assuming the worst! Suddenly, the board is filled with CEO's. Nice!
You accuse other people of assuming by making an assumption, how very comical.
Apparently the fact that some of us operate in the business world during our everyday lives, and as a result of that have more knowledge on the subject being discussed than the "average joe", appears to be lost on you.
I, as well as others, don't need to be a venture capitalist to understand how these things work. I called this the moment that SOE announced the buyout, and it took less than two weeks for it become a reality.
SOE/DGC has more than 500 employees, Columbus Nova wants to restructure DGC to ensure it is as profitable in the short term as humanly possible. You don't achieve that by laying off a dozen people, so if you think this is over you might want to think again, this is just beginning.
TLDR: Other people know things that you do not, welcome to the real world.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle I wonder if EQN will take a new direction. I hope back to EQ roots, tab targeting. Less about action combat and return of the trinity? Or will it be business as always?
If they change EQN to tab target. I'll basically lose all interest. If you want tab target, you have EQ1 and EQ2 to play.
If you like action combat you have quake to play.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Originally posted by BizkitNL It's way too early to make any kind of statements. But don't let that stop y'all from assuming the worst! Suddenly, the board is filled with CEO's. Nice!
You accuse other people of assuming by making an assumption, how very comical.
Apparently the fact that some of us operate in the business world during our everyday lives, and as a result of that have more knowledge on the subject being discussed than the "average joe", appears to be lost on you.
I, as well as others, don't need to be a venture capitalist to understand how these things work. I called this the moment that SOE announced the buyout, and it took less than two weeks for it become a reality.
SOE/DGC has more than 500 employees, Columbus Nova wants to restructure DGC to ensure it is as profitable in the short term as humanly possible. You don't achieve that by laying off a dozen people, so if you think this is over you might want to think again, this is just beginning.
TLDR: Other people know things that you do not, welcome to the real world.
Why the snark? They were merely pointing out that there's a known unknown some people have latched onto with an infatuation on negativity. Just because someone is in the business world that doesn't mean they know specifically what's going on with DGC internally. They may have an educated guess, but it's still a guess.
I have wondered whether all the previous SoE positions went with DGC because of those 500 not all were specific to game development. That would give a better gauge as to how much more may be cut. It stinks for those effected but it makes sense in a way. The positions cut were nearly all non development positions and for a company not brining in blockbuster numbers but have a potential earner(s) in the oven it would make sense to keep DGC developmentally sound.
If Columbus Nova's first and foremost goal is to make money, gutting DGC to the point of stunting EQN, Landmark's final features, and the completion of H1Z1 would be an unwise move. The genre has become stagnant to a large degree and EQN alone could make a splash if they were able to integrate Storybricks the way they planned. There may indeed be more cuts and those would tell far more than these cuts have.
It's still unfortunate. You don't see it here of course but the community and those let go has been close for a very long time. A lot of the "spice" and "icing" was taken away today.
Originally posted by Vorthanion If anything is an indication of the PC based MMORPG going the way of the dodo, it's companies selling out and if SOE is willing to do it then everyone else may very well follow suit, till there is nothing left but candy crush, farmville and angry birds.
Selling out? What? SOE didn't have much choice in the matter. Sony sold the company without any need or want of their approval and if they didn't sell it, they probably would have closed the doors.
Anyone who thinks these lay-offs are a good thing clearly doesn't understand a thing about venture capitalists and how large investment firms operate.
No part of this is positive news, in any way, shape or form.
Columbus Nova is aiming for short term profitability, first and foremost. You cannot produce short term profitability in an industry that is almost entirely based on long term development. As a result of this, they will push out products of lesser quality, within a faster timeframe, in order to achieve that goal of maintaining short term profitability.
Long story short: SOE/DGC and every game in it's stable is now fucked.
Push out products of lesser quality then SoE already did? Don't make us laugh.
And as a Landmark and Trove player - I can tell you that my Trove played time is in 100s of hours and I still actively play, I haven't logged into Landmark in months
Agreed completely.. I wish more companies would focus more on gameplay, then eye candy flash. It doesn't matter what genre you play, it has to be fun, without boredom sinking in after 15 minutes.. SOE Daybreak has yet to have a serious contender game that can rank in the top 100 in "time played" by customers.. That tells a lot..
A company does not invest in an asset to destroy it. SOE wasn't creating enough reasons to justify its existence in the SONY organization. Now the SOE ship will be re-build .Hopefull it will be more "seaworthy" that it's predecessor.
Originally posted by Shadanwolf A company does not invest in an asset to destroy it. SOE wasn't creating enough reasons to justify its existence in the SONY organization. Now the SOE ship will be re-build .Hopefull it will be more "seaworthy" that it's predecessor.
Originally posted by mrneurosis EQ next will still go on. I knew someone would make a topic like this. Is it a big loss? yes but there is no way EQ NEXT is going to be cancelled.
EQNext will pancake and die, they are going to shutter the project "gracefully" as soon as the re-org is over. Good luck to the team members out there. If you think this EQNext and the original EQ franchise now stands a cold snowballs chance in hell - I've got icewater in the deep arctic to sell you.
Originally posted by Shadanwolf A company does not invest in an asset to destroy it. SOE wasn't creating enough reasons to justify its existence in the SONY organization. Now the SOE ship will be re-build .Hopefull it will be more "seaworthy" that it's predecessor.
If CN doesn't have the confidence in the current team to actually be able to build said ship to the standard it would need to be built to, they will choose not to build it. Throwing good money after bad is exactly what caused all this. That's exactly what CN is putting a stop to.
Comments
yes, SoE who used EQ's franchise to promote EQNext that has nothing to do with EQ really cares about games and gamers
LMAO!
I'm sorry, I have to assume you are joking.
What is Landmark attempting to be that it isn't?
Yep...
Seaspite
Playing ESO on my X-Box
Well, from the 2013 SOE live it was minecraft set to an EQ theme with better graphics. Thats it. Then, months later, they started talking about how they could add elements to make it into more of an mmorpg including pve and pvp. Its more or less become a testbed for idea and mechanics they intend to use in EQN.
Was Georgeson making EQN single handed? Honestly don't know if he has any actual input/impact on the games. From all the streams and what not, he appears to "play" with the tools and what the devs have made, but he doesn't seem like the master designer creating it all. Could be mistaken though.
Sucks he is gone if he was a big influence, but not seeing it.
Of course they could announce tomorrow that EQN is cancelled because without DG involved, there is no hope, but I'll wait on jumping to that conclusion.
So it is living up to what they said it would be. Long past a pretty MC and the systems added have slowly evolved and keep improving. They aren't "attempting," they are doing. Seems some need instant results or it isn't good enough.
He just managed the Everquest franchise including EQN and Landmark. Jeff Butler is the Creative Director and Terry Michaels is the Producer. His position was already unique as far as SOE went as there were no similar positions for the Planetside franchise or H1Z1 franchise. If EQ1 and EQ2 development stopped, his job just became redundant.
The point was, that wasn't what they said Landmark would be. In no shape or form. Not in the beginning at least.
I personally don't mind what they are doing with Landmark, but their ever-changing development process just seemed inconsistent to say the least, which was the point of the original remark.
That's what I thought, but some appear to believe that DG was coming up with all the ideas, features, and sitting in the studio all day stuck to a machine.
He was the face, no doubt, but removing him probably has minimal impact on any of the games and probably why he was let go. Doubt he was on the low end of the pay scale.
Same goes for Butler and Michaels.
I'm assuming they've have a lot of say in how EQN/LM will come about, but probably less then an indie game might with team leads and devs that are responsible for individual features all on their own. Wouldn't doubt that someone could jump in and "direct" "produce" all the same with the team already creating the games.
I don't work in the game industry, but I've lost Directors, Supervisors, Managers, Presidents, etc and the company didn't crumble nor did our day to day change much. Now if someone calls out sick or left that was the only one that did a particular duty, that's where I've run into issues.
I was responding to the use of visuals to make negative comments that some how confirm EQN/LM are doomed.
"EQ fans wanted pretty art but got crappy Voxels"
"Voxels have improved a lot"
"No they haven't and game is doomed!"
"Looks better then other Voxel game"
"That's not fair comparison"
Which goes back to the first comparison which isn't relevant or fair either. Then again, we are all just throwing out our subjective opinions so not like any of it matters at all
LM was confirmed to have a lot more then just building within a month or two of reveal I believe. Which was 1.5 years ago. Since then, they really haven't gone of course much as far as "what they said it would be." Beyond changing the name of course.
... and WoW, that giant social media application with elves.
You accuse other people of assuming by making an assumption, how very comical.
Apparently the fact that some of us operate in the business world during our everyday lives, and as a result of that have more knowledge on the subject being discussed than the "average joe", appears to be lost on you.
I, as well as others, don't need to be a venture capitalist to understand how these things work. I called this the moment that SOE announced the buyout, and it took less than two weeks for it become a reality.
SOE/DGC has more than 500 employees, Columbus Nova wants to restructure DGC to ensure it is as profitable in the short term as humanly possible. You don't achieve that by laying off a dozen people, so if you think this is over you might want to think again, this is just beginning.
TLDR: Other people know things that you do not, welcome to the real world.
If you like action combat you have quake to play.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Why the snark? They were merely pointing out that there's a known unknown some people have latched onto with an infatuation on negativity. Just because someone is in the business world that doesn't mean they know specifically what's going on with DGC internally. They may have an educated guess, but it's still a guess.
I have wondered whether all the previous SoE positions went with DGC because of those 500 not all were specific to game development. That would give a better gauge as to how much more may be cut. It stinks for those effected but it makes sense in a way. The positions cut were nearly all non development positions and for a company not brining in blockbuster numbers but have a potential earner(s) in the oven it would make sense to keep DGC developmentally sound.
If Columbus Nova's first and foremost goal is to make money, gutting DGC to the point of stunting EQN, Landmark's final features, and the completion of H1Z1 would be an unwise move. The genre has become stagnant to a large degree and EQN alone could make a splash if they were able to integrate Storybricks the way they planned. There may indeed be more cuts and those would tell far more than these cuts have.
It's still unfortunate. You don't see it here of course but the community and those let go has been close for a very long time. A lot of the "spice" and "icing" was taken away today.
Selling out? What? SOE didn't have much choice in the matter. Sony sold the company without any need or want of their approval and if they didn't sell it, they probably would have closed the doors.
Push out products of lesser quality then SoE already did? Don't make us laugh.
Agreed completely.. I wish more companies would focus more on gameplay, then eye candy flash. It doesn't matter what genre you play, it has to be fun, without boredom sinking in after 15 minutes.. SOE Daybreak has yet to have a serious contender game that can rank in the top 100 in "time played" by customers.. That tells a lot..
http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/2vm5nl/dont_hate_on_columbus_novadaybreak/
Good read
EQNext will pancake and die, they are going to shutter the project "gracefully" as soon as the re-org is over. Good luck to the team members out there. If you think this EQNext and the original EQ franchise now stands a cold snowballs chance in hell - I've got icewater in the deep arctic to sell you.
If CN doesn't have the confidence in the current team to actually be able to build said ship to the standard it would need to be built to, they will choose not to build it. Throwing good money after bad is exactly what caused all this. That's exactly what CN is putting a stop to.