He is saying if you are being harassed by gankers, you can kill the gankers in defensive retaliation and overtime you will "Win the ISK war" meaning they can no longer challenge you because you have run them out of resources.This is opposed to theme park games like wow, where greifing is very prevalent, and can't be stopped without intervention by a GM since whoever is ganking your low level/geared character will always just respawn even if you get on your max level character and beat them 1v1.In reality greifing is far more common in non loot based pvp, because there is no way to stop them outside of weird game mechanics or admin intervention.
WOW is just one game, which it and AOC are really the only two Themeparks I've played where ganking/griefing was an issue at all, even in ESO I've yet to be ganked and I've been playing since around September. In reality most themepark PVP outside of GW2 and ESO takes place in controlled environments. There is also little incentive to gank in such a game, where there is a lot of incentive in a game with full loot.
Most ganking and griefing in those full loot games takes place between fully leveled players and noobs. Those noobs stand little chance in the grand scheme of things, especially if it escalates into a war of attrition as you're trying to suggest.
You seem to be implying that you have a problem with large groups harassing low players for a prolonged amount of time. I can definitely say I have never seen this take place (unless the low players somehow managed to piss off the big boys really badly which is their own fault). It's simply not worth it for the big boys to go out of their way to target lowbies, they will lose their big boy status pretty quickly doing that since the payout for hitting noobs is low. Meanwhile, other groups will be attacking people closer to their level for much better gains, and will eventually surpass the big boys.
Situations like these are self regulating, you can easily see this in games like EVE, where the power players have all the resources to wipe smaller alliances off the face of the earth, but they don't because it won't be a benefit to them in the long run.
That is to say, of course if the big boys are out on some pvp roam, and they happen to stumble across some noob alliance also out on a roam of some sort, the big boys will obliterate them. In the end though, big alliances do not seek to harass and grief the lower players in heavy PVP games, this is just a misconception spread by people who happened to get killed without being able to fight back, then they quit the game because they couldn't handle that.
Of course in all well designed PVP, if you are watchful at all times, you are very likely to escape any ganks by any players, big or small.
You seem to focus in on well done game (EVE) and ignore the sea of FFA PVP games that have soured peoples opinion on the sub-genre. That is the problem in a nutshell there are few well done FFA games, most lay out a siege system and not much else, and leave players to their own devices, hence widespread gank and grief problems.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Wow after wading through all that I can see these forums are still robust with the kind of bickering debate where just saying "Good morning" can set off a war of words on not only the definition of "good" but a several page treatise on the nature of time zones and the quantum fluctuations of the space time continuum.
To address the OP's point, and just that point, of the discussion, yes saying Crowfall is "full loot" at the moment seems a bit of an exaggeration since you don't lose 100% of your character's items and gear. So how about we just say that the server rule sets in Crowafall have varying degrees of loot penalties and leave it at that.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle Ganking in PvP is just fine, ambushing someone is just good war. I would love in DAoC sneeking in with my Minstrel(rogue), killing the healer and dashing away. Then my team would come in and we would kill them without a healer. Just fun. Greffing on the other hand is down right wrong. For me that term means picking on people who have no chance of winning, lower level players or corpse camping someone. I like a even fight PvP fight where I can lose or win. IMO thats what makes a real PvPer.
There is definitely nothing wrong with attacking lower level players in a loot based PVP game as long as your not preventing them from playing the game (corpse/spawn camping).
This is different in non-loot PVP since you don't get anything from killing a lower level player, its essentially always greifing to kill them unless they are stealing your resources or something that negatively affects you.
in EVE you lose everything ! but never anyone left cause of this ...
In most PvE MMO's your goal is to achieve the most "epic" equipment because It determines your value. PvE'ers also get an extreme sense of accomplishment when this "epic" item is scored. This mentality is hardwired into the player and it effects their decision when they examine other games with different rule sets.
The main problem...
PvE'ers imagine their PvE games with full loot PvP rules. They imagine all those hours grinding that 6 part quest and scoring that breastplate of exquisiteness can be taken by a player (gasp). They imagine that 3 hour extravaganza at 2 am ganking a elaborate script with a troop of other players (raiding) and winning that lucky dice roll just to have it taken the next morning by a player.
It would help if they understood...
Equipment doesn't have the same value in PvP games. Normally in PvP games the best sword your going to have is going to the the one you can make, there is no Sword of the Best Raider. Losing equipment you can make isn't a big deal.
If you are killed by a player it's because they were looking for a fight. In PvP MMO's the sense of accomplishment is actually from the fight especially if it's someone with a reputation. As looting goes food/resources will be taken because it saves time off gathering/mining but rarely are you looted to the bone.
in EVE you lose everything ! but never anyone left cause of this ...
Eve is not full loot. Eve economy would collapse in no time flat if it ever became full loot. Any game that has full loot is going to have complete trash economy; which is what 'scares' me when people start demanding it. 'Player driven' economy is one of the central features of a sandbox like this.
in EVE you lose everything ! but never anyone left cause of this ...
Eve is not full loot. Eve economy would collapse in no time flat if it ever became full loot. Any game that has full loot is going to have complete trash economy; which is what 'scares' me when people start demanding it. 'Player driven' economy is one of the central features of a sandbox like this.
Not everyone knows how EVE works, an explanation is required before you start building an elaborate tirade.
EVE is "full loss", not "full loot". That means that the player who is killed loses everything they had with them (ship, fittings and cargo). But only a randomly determined portion of the lost items remain in the game as loot on the "corpse", the rest are destroyed. And all the thousands of tons of minerals required to build the ship hull are lost.
THAT is why the economy in EVE works: a great deal of equipment/resources are removed from the game during each kill, instead of just being transferred to another player as loot.
Well, the original intention of this thread was to attempt to bash into your thick skulls not to state things about the game that haven't yet been confirmed as facts, speculation is of course welcome, but there's still the trend going about that this game will feature full loot, when in reality we have no idea.
This may sound very weird but I will accept full loss over full loot. A full loss game I will play but not a full loot game. I can accept the game destroying my items but not another player taking my stuff.
Originally posted by Amjoco I am new to following Crowfall. I have read a bit about it and of course guessed at the game itself due to lack of information like the rest of you. My concern is that if it is full loot on a given server, how it would hold up in the long run. I'm sure there are those hardcore players that enjoy that stuff, but the trend in the gaming world has leaned more towards casual. I think the full loot aspect would become a very small group of niche players eventually. If I would play I would become the best at fighting naked and with a tree branch just so I wouldn't feel robbed all the time!
From what it appears, you can decid to travel between the different server types or remain on the one who's rules you prefer. Although they call them "worlds", they are technically sharded zones on a large, single server.
I don't know how unique that approach is, but I like it.
Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....
I don't understand the trend here that people keep claiming this game is full loot. We have different server rulesets, but what hasn't been currently at any stage confirmed that there's actually even a full loot option. Currently the "most harsh" ruleset the game has is: 100% inventory loot, 20% chance drop equipment on death, 30% item decay.
As it currently stands, there is a chance that there won't be full loot at all, and that the harshest server (currently appears to be Dregs) only has 50% chance drop equipment on death for example.
In short, stop claiming things this game is yet to be confirmed to be.
I think you answer your own question and that is enough to scare people away. Believe it or not but majority of people play games to kick back and relax after long hours of work. Not to stress out and feel like they are being punished.
And there are numerous MMOs that fit that description perfectly. The Lion's share of MMORPG.com's game list fits that description, in fact.
Why people who prefer that kind of experience would be spending time in the forums for a game that clearly doesn't fit that description is a bit baffling to me. I'd think they'd be too busy relaxing in one of the MMOs that suits them to even notice that something like Crowfall is being developed.
Yet, here you are. And others like you in other posts/threads.
But it is all right. There are plenty of small community low quality niche MMOS like this in development. Crowfall will also gets its player base. Isn't that what they are aiming for?
Oh, I get it now.
You're here to make snarky, passive-aggressive remarks about these "low quality niche games" and their"small communities". You're here to talk down to those whose taste in gaming isn't as popular as yours.
So, you feeling better now? Nice and smug and superior?
I don't understand the trend here that people keep claiming this game is full loot. We have different server rulesets, but what hasn't been currently at any stage confirmed that there's actually even a full loot option. Currently the "most harsh" ruleset the game has is: 100% inventory loot, 20% chance drop equipment on death, 30% item decay.
As it currently stands, there is a chance that there won't be full loot at all, and that the harshest server (currently appears to be Dregs) only has 50% chance drop equipment on death for example.
In short, stop claiming things this game is yet to be confirmed to be.
Who is this "We" that you speak of? Are you involved with developing the game? Are you saying that there are rulesets already in place meaning there is a playable version up and running??
Just asking because your post is written to position you as a person who has inside information I haven't heard before.
( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)
I don't understand the trend here that people keep claiming this game is full loot. We have different server rulesets, but what hasn't been currently at any stage confirmed that there's actually even a full loot option. Currently the "most harsh" ruleset the game has is: 100% inventory loot, 20% chance drop equipment on death, 30% item decay.
As it currently stands, there is a chance that there won't be full loot at all, and that the harshest server (currently appears to be Dregs) only has 50% chance drop equipment on death for example.
In short, stop claiming things this game is yet to be confirmed to be.
I think you answer your own question and that is enough to scare people away. Believe it or not but majority of people play games to kick back and relax after long hours of work. Not to stress out and feel like they are being punished.
And there are numerous MMOs that fit that description perfectly. The Lion's share of MMORPG.com's game list fits that description, in fact.
Why people who prefer that kind of experience would be spending time in the forums for a game that clearly doesn't fit that description is a bit baffling to me. I'd think they'd be too busy relaxing in one of the MMOs that suits them to even notice that something like Crowfall is being developed.
Yet, here you are. And others like you in other posts/threads.
But it is all right. There are plenty of small community low quality niche MMOS like this in development. Crowfall will also gets its player base. Isn't that what they are aiming for?
Oh, I get it now.
You're here to make snarky, passive-aggressive remarks about these "low quality niche games" and their"small communities". You're here to talk down to those whose taste in gaming isn't as popular as yours.
So, you feeling better now? Nice and smug and superior?
Maybe you have a specific bookmark that you use to enter this website, but on the home page there is a area that has a recent posts section. When members of this website go to the home page, the posts are right on their screen. Most people who don't have an interest in this game aren't specifically going to the Crowfall forum section just to stir shit and try to enforce their views, but they do like to state their opinion on posts that show up on the homepage for a website they are members of.
Comments
You seem to focus in on well done game (EVE) and ignore the sea of FFA PVP games that have soured peoples opinion on the sub-genre. That is the problem in a nutshell there are few well done FFA games, most lay out a siege system and not much else, and leave players to their own devices, hence widespread gank and grief problems.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You dont like PvF? Player vers Forum?
PS, Love your sig
There is definitely nothing wrong with attacking lower level players in a loot based PVP game as long as your not preventing them from playing the game (corpse/spawn camping).
This is different in non-loot PVP since you don't get anything from killing a lower level player, its essentially always greifing to kill them unless they are stealing your resources or something that negatively affects you.
Waiting for:
The Repopulation
Albion Online
and why full loot scares people away ?
in EVE you lose everything ! but never anyone left cause of this ...
In most PvE MMO's your goal is to achieve the most "epic" equipment because It determines your value. PvE'ers also get an extreme sense of accomplishment when this "epic" item is scored. This mentality is hardwired into the player and it effects their decision when they examine other games with different rule sets.
The main problem...
PvE'ers imagine their PvE games with full loot PvP rules. They imagine all those hours grinding that 6 part quest and scoring that breastplate of exquisiteness can be taken by a player (gasp). They imagine that 3 hour extravaganza at 2 am ganking a elaborate script with a troop of other players (raiding) and winning that lucky dice roll just to have it taken the next morning by a player.
It would help if they understood...
Equipment doesn't have the same value in PvP games. Normally in PvP games the best sword your going to have is going to the the one you can make, there is no Sword of the Best Raider. Losing equipment you can make isn't a big deal.
If you are killed by a player it's because they were looking for a fight. In PvP MMO's the sense of accomplishment is actually from the fight especially if it's someone with a reputation. As looting goes food/resources will be taken because it saves time off gathering/mining but rarely are you looted to the bone.
Eve is not full loot. Eve economy would collapse in no time flat if it ever became full loot. Any game that has full loot is going to have complete trash economy; which is what 'scares' me when people start demanding it. 'Player driven' economy is one of the central features of a sandbox like this.
Not everyone knows how EVE works, an explanation is required before you start building an elaborate tirade.
EVE is "full loss", not "full loot". That means that the player who is killed loses everything they had with them (ship, fittings and cargo). But only a randomly determined portion of the lost items remain in the game as loot on the "corpse", the rest are destroyed. And all the thousands of tons of minerals required to build the ship hull are lost.
THAT is why the economy in EVE works: a great deal of equipment/resources are removed from the game during each kill, instead of just being transferred to another player as loot.
Well, the original intention of this thread was to attempt to bash into your thick skulls not to state things about the game that haven't yet been confirmed as facts, speculation is of course welcome, but there's still the trend going about that this game will feature full loot, when in reality we have no idea.
From what it appears, you can decid to travel between the different server types or remain on the one who's rules you prefer. Although they call them "worlds", they are technically sharded zones on a large, single server.
I don't know how unique that approach is, but I like it.
Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....
Who is this "We" that you speak of? Are you involved with developing the game? Are you saying that there are rulesets already in place meaning there is a playable version up and running??
Just asking because your post is written to position you as a person who has inside information I haven't heard before.
( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)
An acerbic sense of humor is NOT allowed here.
Maybe you have a specific bookmark that you use to enter this website, but on the home page there is a area that has a recent posts section. When members of this website go to the home page, the posts are right on their screen. Most people who don't have an interest in this game aren't specifically going to the Crowfall forum section just to stir shit and try to enforce their views, but they do like to state their opinion on posts that show up on the homepage for a website they are members of.