Originally posted by Rattenmann These guys need to find a new job over at Brad and develop the real Everquest sequel. Who cares about the name, it is the vision and the spirit that counts. And THOSE two factors are with Brad.
that be neat
Hell yeah, this!!!
That would be just freakin amazing if that happend! Maybe it was fate that these guys where let go now!
Yes, this would be good. I am sure Brad and Jeff can do an amazing MMO together (much better than VSoH).
The biggest problem with VSoH (that people NEVER take into account) was the lack of tools and an engine to create a seamless world on the scale of Telon (vgs world). One of the biggest issues they had was building their own tools. Could you imagine them having something like a modern Unreal or Unity development studio and the time that would have been saved?
Pantheon is currently being developed with Unity, but honestly until they get to a point where they can get funding, I doubt the likelihood of them pulling in someone like Jeff Butler or any other industry vet.
Originally posted by Rattenmann These guys need to find a new job over at Brad and develop the real Everquest sequel. Who cares about the name, it is the vision and the spirit that counts. And THOSE two factors are with Brad.
that be neat
Hell yeah, this!!!
That would be just freakin amazing if that happend! Maybe it was fate that these guys where let go now!
Yes, this would be good. I am sure Brad and Jeff can do an amazing MMO together (much better than VSoH).
The biggest problem with VSoH (that people NEVER take into account) was the lack of tools and an engine to create a seamless world on the scale of Telon (vgs world). One of the biggest issues they had was building their own tools. Could you imagine them having something like a modern Unreal or Unity development studio and the time that would have been saved?
Pantheon is currently being developed with Unity, but honestly until they get to a point where they can get funding, I doubt the likelihood of them pulling in someone like Jeff Butler or any other industry vet.
Um Vanguard Saga of Heroes used the Unreal Engine 2.5 fyi...
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Originally posted by Rattenmann These guys need to find a new job over at Brad and develop the real Everquest sequel. Who cares about the name, it is the vision and the spirit that counts. And THOSE two factors are with Brad.
that be neat
Hell yeah, this!!!
That would be just freakin amazing if that happend! Maybe it was fate that these guys where let go now!
Yes, this would be good. I am sure Brad and Jeff can do an amazing MMO together (much better than VSoH).
The biggest problem with VSoH (that people NEVER take into account) was the lack of tools and an engine to create a seamless world on the scale of Telon (vgs world). One of the biggest issues they had was building their own tools. Could you imagine them having something like a modern Unreal or Unity development studio and the time that would have been saved?
Pantheon is currently being developed with Unity, but honestly until they get to a point where they can get funding, I doubt the likelihood of them pulling in someone like Jeff Butler or any other industry vet.
Um Vanguard Saga of Heroes used the Unreal Engine 2.5 fyi...
Unreal engine and dev kit 10 years ago is not like the dev kits today =p.
Originally posted by observer Vanguard was trash. I don't see why people keep bringing it up as if it was somehow innovative or groundbreaking in concept, because it wasn't.
While it can be argued that SWG had many of Vanguards features, it was still innovative. Regardless, one could also call it trash because it was barely half finished, full of bugs and ended up being exploited and hacked until no one but the most hardcore fans wanted to continue.
Innovative because it was the first completely open world (0 instances) PvE game that integrated sandbox elements like crafting of houses and ships and diplomacy which was supposed to play a very integral role in the game, but was never really finished. It also offered more depth for the other forms of gameplay (non-combat) like crafting than any of the previous games including what people would refer to as hardcore sandbox games. There were completely separate factions, items and other equipment like mounts for crafters and diplomats. Permitted the game didn't crash and burn, players could have easily crafted or been a diplomat as their primary role in the game without ever engaging in the combat side of the game.
I played Vanguard from really early beta and it was an awful game on pretty much every level even conceptually. If he really was a driving force with that game it can't hurt to lose him.
Originally posted by observer Vanguard was trash. I don't see why people keep bringing it up as if it was somehow innovative or groundbreaking in concept, because it wasn't.
You named the reason right there.
It did NOT try to reinvent the wheel, it did NOT try to change everything people love, it did NOT mess with every aspect of past games that made people PLAY them.
It improved some, it failed miserably at being accessable due to very high PC needs,... but it was exactly the game people like me wanted it to be. It was EQ 1, with better grafics. Almost... so a VG 2 with better funding / planning ect. and i am sold. Not everyone wants innovation around every corner. All that innovation brought us is ArchAge, GW 2, elder Scrolls and all the other even more boring trash.
Bring back "uninnovative games" that focus on the core gameplay and fun and don't try to tell me what i SHOULD like even tho i don't.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Originally posted by observer Vanguard was trash. I don't see why people keep bringing it up as if it was somehow innovative or groundbreaking in concept, because it wasn't.
Except it was, and your opinion doesn't alter the course of fact.
Innovative concepts in Vanguard before other games:
Wow... they lost Jeff too?! God damn. Whelp! That is all she wrote for EQN! I'm sure Smed will probably still keep the game progressing and launch it as a messy buggy shell of a game.
RIP Everquest 1, 2, and Next
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
As awesome as he was he is just one guy. DGC has staff thats worked there for a very long time hand in hand with people like Jeff. They have what they need to move forward, the devs let go have said the same. Its sad but it can also be a good thing. Sometimes shaking things up can create new exciting options. Give a chance for others to shine.
What's the point of this post again? So... an investment group bought a company and promptly conducted layoffs... shocking.
Look.. it sucks that Jeff, Dave and others got laid off. But.. you know what.. it needed to be done. EQN, based on what we know about it, was a shell of what the original EQ was. I know.. I know... we need to make progress and be innovative.. but you also have to stay true to the core of the IP. They were not being true to the EQ franchise, IMO. The reveal was a colossal disappointment, for me anyway. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this like a reboot and not even a continuation of the EQ universe? Between Landmark and EQN.. it was like the leads on this project were conducting one massive horrible experiment on the MMO/EQ community. I really had no faith in their lofty ideas being well executed.
What need to be done, is get rid of John Smedley. Then you really get change!
Firing the regular People has absolutely ZERO effect to change direction of the Company, as long as the same CEO stays at the helm, that has been screwing up for years!
Lets not forget that this isn´t the first major lay offs. The last years has seen several large rounds of lay offs under John Smedley, including cancelation of games very far into Development (Close beta stage) and entire closure of three whole studios!
Since then, nothing has changed..... and now Sony got rid of SOE and been bought by investors, John Smedley yet again seems to Escape the Dance and another round of hardworking people are being fired!
It´s just one big joke and why I have no hope whatsoever that any decent game is going to be released from this studio anymore.
This is far from a full list - the full list has over 200 names - including contractors etc
I know, i was just putting him in a list of many others that people may know. Maybe should have not said full lol
Originally posted by Nanfoodle As awesome as he was he is just one guy. DGC has staff thats worked there for a very long time hand in hand with people like Jeff. They have what they need to move forward, the devs let go have said the same. Its sad but it can also be a good thing. Sometimes shaking things up can create new exciting options. Give a chance for others to shine.
I hope so, other than Crowfall and Skyforge, it was the only other MMO i was looking forward to tbh.
Originally posted by observer Vanguard was trash. I don't see why people keep bringing it up as if it was somehow innovative or groundbreaking in concept, because it wasn't.
Except it was, and your opinion doesn't alter the course of fact.
Innovative concepts in Vanguard before other games:
Comments
The biggest problem with VSoH (that people NEVER take into account) was the lack of tools and an engine to create a seamless world on the scale of Telon (vgs world). One of the biggest issues they had was building their own tools. Could you imagine them having something like a modern Unreal or Unity development studio and the time that would have been saved?
Pantheon is currently being developed with Unity, but honestly until they get to a point where they can get funding, I doubt the likelihood of them pulling in someone like Jeff Butler or any other industry vet.
Um Vanguard Saga of Heroes used the Unreal Engine 2.5 fyi...
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Unreal engine and dev kit 10 years ago is not like the dev kits today =p.
While it can be argued that SWG had many of Vanguards features, it was still innovative. Regardless, one could also call it trash because it was barely half finished, full of bugs and ended up being exploited and hacked until no one but the most hardcore fans wanted to continue.
Innovative because it was the first completely open world (0 instances) PvE game that integrated sandbox elements like crafting of houses and ships and diplomacy which was supposed to play a very integral role in the game, but was never really finished. It also offered more depth for the other forms of gameplay (non-combat) like crafting than any of the previous games including what people would refer to as hardcore sandbox games. There were completely separate factions, items and other equipment like mounts for crafters and diplomats. Permitted the game didn't crash and burn, players could have easily crafted or been a diplomat as their primary role in the game without ever engaging in the combat side of the game.
I played Vanguard from really early beta and it was an awful game on pretty much every level even conceptually. If he really was a driving force with that game it can't hurt to lose him.
You named the reason right there.
It did NOT try to reinvent the wheel, it did NOT try to change everything people love, it did NOT mess with every aspect of past games that made people PLAY them.
It improved some, it failed miserably at being accessable due to very high PC needs,... but it was exactly the game people like me wanted it to be. It was EQ 1, with better grafics. Almost... so a VG 2 with better funding / planning ect. and i am sold. Not everyone wants innovation around every corner. All that innovation brought us is ArchAge, GW 2, elder Scrolls and all the other even more boring trash.
Bring back "uninnovative games" that focus on the core gameplay and fun and don't try to tell me what i SHOULD like even tho i don't.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
1) What numbers are you talking about? Are you privy to a time machine and are using it to warn us of low profitability on EQN?
2) You seem to be implying that there hasn't been a "real" EQ MMORPG before... Are you an idiot or just a Millenial?
Except it was, and your opinion doesn't alter the course of fact.
Innovative concepts in Vanguard before other games:
1) Open world
2) Combo System/Reactionary Combat
3) Synergy System
4) Diplomacy System
5) Skill based crafting
just a few from the top of my head.
Wow... they lost Jeff too?! God damn. Whelp! That is all she wrote for EQN! I'm sure Smed will probably still keep the game progressing and launch it as a messy buggy shell of a game.
RIP Everquest 1, 2, and Next
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
Full list of lay-offs
Everquest Franchise
Planetside 2
H1Z1
DC Universe Online
General Staff
What need to be done, is get rid of John Smedley. Then you really get change!
Firing the regular People has absolutely ZERO effect to change direction of the Company, as long as the same CEO stays at the helm, that has been screwing up for years!
Lets not forget that this isn´t the first major lay offs. The last years has seen several large rounds of lay offs under John Smedley, including cancelation of games very far into Development (Close beta stage) and entire closure of three whole studios!
Since then, nothing has changed..... and now Sony got rid of SOE and been bought by investors, John Smedley yet again seems to Escape the Dance and another round of hardworking people are being fired!
It´s just one big joke and why I have no hope whatsoever that any decent game is going to be released from this studio anymore.
Not as long as John Smedley still at the helm.
I know, i was just putting him in a list of many others that people may know. Maybe should have not said full lol
I hope so, other than Crowfall and Skyforge, it was the only other MMO i was looking forward to tbh.
Duel targeting.