I played AA all the way to 50. Like a person stated on a previous post, it definitely hits you HARD when you realize that you are essentially SCREWED once you hit the cap and realize you are nothing but FODDER for anyone else that has either PAID their way to 'win' with weapons that will SHRED you to pieces in a few seconds, or they have been playing since it released and have made all the gear/weps that you simply cannot compete against. Unless you are willing to invest/wait/sit on your ass waiting for all the LABOR POINTS you will need to even compete with the 'paying' or veteran types, you are going to get quite pissed in all the 50th 'PVP zones'. There are no PVE zones that I recall at 50th, so you have no choice, pay or be destroyed at cap in any of those zones.
getting to lvl 50 isn't any big achievement (in fact some people get there in few hours - i dont say i support that )
The veteran players did invest their time to have collected that gear.
On the contrary it is absolutely unfair to the verteran players that they had to collect stellar amounts of gold and for you now the divine gifts floating in with the former expensive moon/starpoints for free. You have a unfair advantage already at this point.
And something else, I hope by "paid their way to win" you mean they payed gold for their gear because its actually wrong if you meant they "bought gear in the cash shop" which isn't possible.
The veteran players invested much more, time, gold, labour and therefore deserve to be ahead of you in equipment and also fresh players have it lots easier now to equip themselves then veterans had.
You also should know by now that there is a PvE way to get quite good gear that doesn't justify your verdict "pay or be destroyed at cap ". A few hours in Hasla and GHA/Serpentis gets you quite good gear without "pay" a dime.
The major flaw against your "bought gear in the cash shop isn't possible" argument is that they paid for the gold they used. Just because you can't find the gear they are wearing in the shop doesn't mean they didn't buy it with RL cash.
It just means they bought things out of the shop with RL cash to sell on the market for the exorbitant amount of gold they used, which hardly constitutes a non-P2W investment.
As far as the "quite good" pve gear?
That's only worth a damn after you pump a 10s of Ks of gold into it to regrade it.
That's the rub.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
The major flaw against your "bought gear in the cash shop isn't possible" argument is that they paid for the gold they used. Just because you can't find the gear they are wearing in the shop doesn't mean they didn't buy it with RL cash.
Every game is plaqued by goldsellers there is major improvement lately and gold spamming and email spamming is under control.
Many things get sold in AH.
For example TS trees. You get lotsa golds for it. Gilda stars blueprints. Buildingspots. Did i mention how rich you become through fishing ? Its a market and various ways to make easy gold.
The power is in the market and not the cash shop, thats the difference from pay to win.
Bought gold may make you faster to progress but thats it and clearly not pay to win.
As far as the "quite good" pve gear?
That's only worth a damn after you pump a 10s of Ks of gold into it to regrade it.
That's the rub.
Quite good .yes !
For the effort spend and for it being free of any gold it is better then quite good.
What do you want ? hand you a win button from the few hours invested vs the costs and effort of the crafted gear ?
Of course its not as good as crafted gear of similar levels.
It is one of the best MMOs I have played, but there are reasons I left. I don't have time to commit to MMOs as much anymore. This game is a time-sink to the highest degree, up there with Aion and other Korean grinders. The grinding in this game is the crafting system, it isn't as deep as it is grindy. Although it is fantastic imo, I just want to get to a point where I am on equal footing with top players and after almost 5-6 months, I am barely keeping up with average.
That and the P2W aspects kind of drove me away. I don't want to have to pay money to be able to keep up with people to the level that Archeage requires sometimes.
Small complaints though, I don't play any MMO right now all for different reasons. These are the reasons for why I left Archeage. Have fun and if you can enjoy this game, play it, because it can be a blast with the right guild.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
I tired to like this game. I did enjoy leveling. They kinda destroyed the community for crafters themselves. At the start thunderstruck trees were the money makers. Then guess what they add thunderstruck to cash shop. They added the hasla weapons way sooner than they were suppose to. No point raising weapon crafting since you can go grind a poor mans epic. The grind there is horrible to if your faction doesn't outnumber the other.
Then the northern continent opens up, omg what a huge problem they had. 2/3 of my guild which was about 150 people couldn't log in. In total between 3 teamspeaks out of about 500 people only 100 or so were able to get in. Then when you got in it was so laggy you couldn't even target someone. We had a 3 guild pact with even an enemy faction included and missed out on claiming a zone. As you know the zones once claim are yours pretty much forever. I don't know of a siege that has one ever. I did stop keeping up with this a few months ago so I may be wrong here but to my knowledge in Russia it didn't happen. After the mess of the aruroia launch about half the guild quit playing right away drove a lot of people away.
About the only thing I can say I really was enjoying when I quit was going pirating with my guild on the open sea.
Farming got old after a while. It would take a while just to harvest and replant a large farm. Not to bad once you can make bundles but until then it takes forever if you are trying to maximize your return.
Overall the core game is great it is the management of the game that is horrible. Releasing content to early to the way the cash shop was handled to a mismanaged expansion launch to many things went wrong. I don't blame trion for everything as XL has the rights to the game but it has been a trainwreck in motion since the start. Selling crafting components in the cash shop doesn't work to well in the west pisses off most crafters.
The major flaw against your "bought gear in the cash shop isn't possible" argument is that they paid for the gold they used. Just because you can't find the gear they are wearing in the shop doesn't mean they didn't buy it with RL cash.
Every game is plaqued by goldsellers there is major improvement lately and gold spamming and email spamming is under control.
Many things get sold in AH.
For example TS trees. You get lotsa golds for it. Gilda stars blueprints. Buildingspots. Did i mention how rich you become through fishing ? Its a market and various ways to make easy gold.
The power is in the market and not the cash shop, thats the difference from pay to win.
Bought gold may make you faster to progress but thats it and clearly not pay to win.
As far as the "quite good" pve gear?
That's only worth a damn after you pump a 10s of Ks of gold into it to regrade it.
That's the rub.
Quite good .yes !
For the effort spend and for it being free of any gold it is better then quite good.
What do you want ? hand you a win button from the few hours invested vs the costs and effort of the crafted gear ?
Of course its not as good as crafted gear of similar levels.
What does gold sellers have to do with buying apex from trion or labor pots from the cash shop and then selling them for gold on the auction house. I could log in today and spend thousands of dollars on apex then sell them for in game gold then buy the best gear in the game and kill pretty much any person in the game with ease how is that not pay to win takes no time or effort just lots of money. Also none of the ways you mentioned to earn gold is going to make you rich or even buy one piece of top tier gear anytime soon.
The major flaw against your "bought gear in the cash shop isn't possible" argument is that they paid for the gold they used. Just because you can't find the gear they are wearing in the shop doesn't mean they didn't buy it with RL cash.
Every game is plaqued by goldsellers there is major improvement lately and gold spamming and email spamming is under control.
Many things get sold in AH.
For example TS trees. You get lotsa golds for it. Gilda stars blueprints. Buildingspots. Did i mention how rich you become through fishing ? Its a market and various ways to make easy gold.
The power is in the market and not the cash shop, thats the difference from pay to win.
Bought gold may make you faster to progress but thats it and clearly not pay to win.
As far as the "quite good" pve gear?
That's only worth a damn after you pump a 10s of Ks of gold into it to regrade it.
That's the rub.
Quite good .yes !
For the effort spend and for it being free of any gold it is better then quite good.
What do you want ? hand you a win button from the few hours invested vs the costs and effort of the crafted gear ?
Of course its not as good as crafted gear of similar levels.
What does gold sellers have to do with buying apex from trion or labor pots from the cash shop and then selling them for gold on the auction house. I could log in today and spend thousands of dollars on apex then sell them for in game gold then buy the best gear in the game and kill pretty much any person in the game with ease how is that not pay to win takes no time or effort just lots of money. Also none of the ways you mentioned to earn gold is going to make you rich or even buy one piece of top tier gear anytime soon.
Thought the points i made was sound.
Ok stay at your example : So you buy thousands of APEX and labor pots and flood the market.
What will happen ?
The prices will dwindle go down, people who didn't spend a dime on the game buy lots of them and get easy credits and easy labor they spend to catch up to you for free.
The power is in the player market and not the cash shop. You may get your gear but so will the freeloader too just shortly after you.
The best gear on my server is on a person who fishes extensively, never spend a dime.
The major flaw against your "bought gear in the cash shop isn't possible" argument is that they paid for the gold they used. Just because you can't find the gear they are wearing in the shop doesn't mean they didn't buy it with RL cash.
Every game is plaqued by goldsellers there is major improvement lately and gold spamming and email spamming is under control.
Many things get sold in AH.
For example TS trees. You get lotsa golds for it. Gilda stars blueprints. Buildingspots. Did i mention how rich you become through fishing ? Its a market and various ways to make easy gold.
The power is in the market and not the cash shop, thats the difference from pay to win.
Bought gold may make you faster to progress but thats it and clearly not pay to win.
As far as the "quite good" pve gear?
That's only worth a damn after you pump a 10s of Ks of gold into it to regrade it.
That's the rub.
Quite good .yes !
For the effort spend and for it being free of any gold it is better then quite good.
What do you want ? hand you a win button from the few hours invested vs the costs and effort of the crafted gear ?
Of course its not as good as crafted gear of similar levels.
What does gold sellers have to do with buying apex from trion or labor pots from the cash shop and then selling them for gold on the auction house. I could log in today and spend thousands of dollars on apex then sell them for in game gold then buy the best gear in the game and kill pretty much any person in the game with ease how is that not pay to win takes no time or effort just lots of money. Also none of the ways you mentioned to earn gold is going to make you rich or even buy one piece of top tier gear anytime soon.
Thought the points i made was sound.
Ok stay at your example : So you buy thousands of APEX and labor pots and flood the market.
What will happen ?
The prices will dwindle go down, people who didn't spend a dime on the game buy lots of them and get easy credits and easy labor they spend to catch up to you for free.
The power is in the player market and not the cash shop. You may get your gear but so will the freeloader too just shortly after you.
The best gear on my server is on a person who fishes extensively, never spend a dime.
Your points were not sound because none of the methods you mentioned like fishing, selling thunderstruck trees or farming gilda is gonna let you compete with someone who just drops thousands of dollars of real money on the game buying apex or anything on the marketplace and selling it for in game gold.
The prices of the items that a whale would put on the marketplace would not dwindle down in price that much because guess what there already whales in this game pumping thousands of dollars worth of marketplace items and apex onto the auction houses and last time I checked the prices of said items still cost a ton of gold, so your point of people buying tons of cheap apex and pots is not gonna happen and even if it did they would be spread around the servers and is not gonna let any one person somehow catch up to any of the whales.
I highly doubt the best gear which can cost thousands if not tens of thousands of gold for a single piece of top tier gear is on a guy who fishes on your server find it hard to believe. In the end you keep saying the power is in the player market well guess what gold controls that market and the easiest way to get gold is to spend real money and no other method in this game will ever let you compete or stay caught up with a whale.
From what I saw, the general consensus from most threads on the official forums was that trade routes, fishing, and thunder struck trees were absolutely HORRIBLE ways to make money in the current inflated economy. Trade Routes and Fishing give a fixed amount of revenue and profit which has stayed the same since the game came out, while inflation has gone up and up and up, making them a ridiculous waste of time today. And Thunderstruck tree prices never recovered from that time they were indirectly available in the cash shop.
Most people agreed that the only decent way to really make money now was to play the auction house day-trading game or to sell APEX and other cash shop related items. Those are the only aspects of the economy that have been adjusted for inflation. (interestingly enough, even selling housing doesn't seem to be worth it unless it's in a prime location according to many people. Lots of people theorize that it's because the population's decreased so much that demand for land is low now, although the ludicrous prices of housing trade certificates due to inflation doesn't help)
I've been playing since the first day of Alpha nearly a year ago. It's got to be doing something right for me to stick it out that long. With most games I quit after the first month or two.
It's noticeable that most of the complaints people are making against the game here are based on old information. It's true Trion and XL Games have made a pretty poor effort of managing the game a lot of the time but gradually things have been fixed. Gold selling spam has just about gone, bots have just about gone, hackers have all just about gone. The result is that prices have been coming down considerably and anyone doing regular trade pack runs can easily earn enough to buy Apex to play the game for free. I don't even need to do that. My farms earn me enough to buy all the Apex I need for two accounts.
It's absolute garbage for people to say you have to spend real money in the shop all the time to play the game. You can use the shop to speed progress up if you want but it's not essential. The only time I used real money was when the game first launched, first of all to buy the two founders packs I have and then I bought a few Apex to get some gold to buy the resources I needed to build my farms, clipper, house. Since then, I've only used it to buy the upgrades for my farm carts and the Land expansion certificate for my two Gazebos. I didn't have to do any of those things though. It was my decision because I wanted them straight away and not to have to wait while I earned in-game gold to do the same thing.
The other spurious claim I keep reading here is the game is dead/dying. It's absolutely not. I play on both a NA server and and an EU one. Both have very healthy populations, the chat channels are busy 24/7. The farms around mine are mostly being used daily by the same people who have been there since launch. If there has been any decline in the population, my guess it's the freeloaders who were trying unsuccessfully to play the game without contributing any money at all are the ones who left. You can often see who these people are because they are accusing the game of being P2W when what they are really objecting to is having to actually pay any money at all to play the game. Archeage is no different to other F2P games. You can play without spending any money at all if you want but just spending a little bit makes the game more enjoyable.
From what I saw, the general consensus from most threads on the official forums was that trade routes, fishing, and thunder struck trees were absolutely HORRIBLE ways to make money in the current inflated economy. Trade Routes and Fishing give a fixed amount of revenue and profit which has stayed the same since the game came out, while inflation has gone up and up and up, making them a ridiculous waste of time today. And Thunderstruck tree prices never recovered from that time they were indirectly available in the cash shop.
Most people agreed that the only decent way to really make money now was to play the auction house day-trading game or to sell APEX and other cash shop related items. Those are the only aspects of the economy that have been adjusted for inflation. (interestingly enough, even selling housing doesn't seem to be worth it unless it's in a prime location according to many people. Lots of people theorize that it's because the population's decreased so much that demand for land is low now, although the ludicrous prices of housing trade certificates due to inflation doesn't help)
The point is people made thousands of golds by other ways and bought best gear without using the cash shop. At least you accept the fact that they did so in the past.
I repeat again that the best geared person on my server is someone who did fishing, despit the "buy to win" propaganda on this forum.
If the fishing NOW is not profitable anymore i can't say because i don't fish. But I sold Gildastars recently for thousands of gold.
I've been playing since the first day of Alpha nearly a year ago. It's got to be doing something right for me to stick it out that long. With most games I quit after the first month or two.
It's noticeable that most of the complaints people are making against the game here are based on old information. It's true Trion and XL Games have made a pretty poor effort of managing the game a lot of the time but gradually things have been fixed. Gold selling spam has just about gone, bots have just about gone, hackers have all just about gone. The result is that prices have been coming down considerably and anyone doing regular trade pack runs can easily earn enough to buy Apex to play the game for free. I don't even need to do that. My farms earn me enough to buy all the Apex I need for two accounts.
It's absolute garbage for people to say you have to spend real money in the shop all the time to play the game. You can use the shop to speed progress up if you want but it's not essential. The only time I used real money was when the game first launched, first of all to buy the two founders packs I have and then I bought a few Apex to get some gold to buy the resources I needed to build my farms, clipper, house. Since then, I've only used it to buy the upgrades for my farm carts and the Land expansion certificate for my two Gazebos. I didn't have to do any of those things though. It was my decision because I wanted them straight away and not to have to wait while I earned in-game gold to do the same thing.
The other spurious claim I keep reading here is the game is dead/dying. It's absolutely not. I play on both a NA server and and an EU one. Both have very healthy populations, the chat channels are busy 25/7. The farms around mine are mostly being used daily by the same people who have been there since launch. If there has been any decline in the population, my guess it's the freeloaders who were trying unsuccessfully to play the game without contributing any money at all are the ones who left. You can often see who these people are because they are accusing the game of being P2W when what they are really objecting to is having to actually pay any money at all to play the game. Archeage is no different to other F2P games. You can play without spending any money at all if you want but just spending a little bit makes the game more enjoyable.
I am afraid the misconception of the propaganda have other roots. Western players are a lazy lot that won't to be confronted with any effort as a rule. They call 'grind' any type of gameplay that requires any time investment or any other challenge.
So because they dont want to accept their problem with longterm commitment and their "give me now' approach to gaming BUT still want to "rule" and "own" they need someone else to blame if they loose. This time it is the misconception you refer in your post aka "pay to win" propaganda.
I strongly believe if the game didnt had a cash shop at all, it would be something else on the game they would lay blame on.
very likely "uhm its too time consuming to become competetive" ..see yow the blame switch from "pay to win" to "time to win" ? even tho now with "pay to win" they have a chance to progress faster while having a social life and jobs and all that...
You cant get it right for this lazy westerners who want it all now without any effort ...
Just started an account with wifey and really enjoying it so far. Quite a lot to wrap the head around but it seems very polished and plenty do do. We both prefer the journey so the endgame drama is of no interest. Always happy to pay for entertainment and for those who whine when everything is not free... get real, it is a business and provides jobs. Good game.
I found this game to be way overhyped when I played it and didn't like it. I tried it a few times after but it never grabbed me. I could have been the victim of all the hype and having expectations that could never be met because of the hype. I don't know but the game never clicked for me.
I've been playing since the first day of Alpha nearly a year ago. It's got to be doing something right for me to stick it out that long. With most games I quit after the first month or two.
It's noticeable that most of the complaints people are making against the game here are based on old information. It's true Trion and XL Games have made a pretty poor effort of managing the game a lot of the time but gradually things have been fixed. Gold selling spam has just about gone, bots have just about gone, hackers have all just about gone. The result is that prices have been coming down considerably and anyone doing regular trade pack runs can easily earn enough to buy Apex to play the game for free. I don't even need to do that. My farms earn me enough to buy all the Apex I need for two accounts.
It's absolute garbage for people to say you have to spend real money in the shop all the time to play the game. You can use the shop to speed progress up if you want but it's not essential. The only time I used real money was when the game first launched, first of all to buy the two founders packs I have and then I bought a few Apex to get some gold to buy the resources I needed to build my farms, clipper, house. Since then, I've only used it to buy the upgrades for my farm carts and the Land expansion certificate for my two Gazebos. I didn't have to do any of those things though. It was my decision because I wanted them straight away and not to have to wait while I earned in-game gold to do the same thing.
The other spurious claim I keep reading here is the game is dead/dying. It's absolutely not. I play on both a NA server and and an EU one. Both have very healthy populations, the chat channels are busy 25/7. The farms around mine are mostly being used daily by the same people who have been there since launch. If there has been any decline in the population, my guess it's the freeloaders who were trying unsuccessfully to play the game without contributing any money at all are the ones who left. You can often see who these people are because they are accusing the game of being P2W when what they are really objecting to is having to actually pay any money at all to play the game. Archeage is no different to other F2P games. You can play without spending any money at all if you want but just spending a little bit makes the game more enjoyable.
I am afraid the misconception of the propaganda have other roots. Western players are a lazy lot that won't to be confronted with any effort as a rule. They call 'grind' any type of gameplay that requires any time investment or any other challenge.
So because they dont want to accept their problem with longterm commitment and their "give me now' approach to gaming BUT still want to "rule" and "own" they need someone else to blame if they loose. This time it is the misconception you refer in your post aka "pay to win" propaganda.
I strongly believe if the game didnt had a cash shop at all, it would be something else on the game they would lay blame on.
very likely "uhm its too time consuming to become competetive" ..see yow the blame switch from "pay to win" to "time to win" ? even tho now with "pay to win" they have a chance to progress faster while having a social life and jobs and all that...
You cant get it right for this lazy westerners who want it all now without any effort ...
I find it funny that you think western gamers are lazy people it has nothing to do with the grind it is the ability to bypass that grind by spending real money there is no challenge whipping out your credit card and buying gold. I just do not understand how you keep missing the point that gold equals power in this game it gets you the best gear, pots and whatever else you need to dominate and the easiest way to get it is spending real money no other method in this game will let you compete with a whale.
Example: Whale spend thousands of dollars on apex and marketplace item sells for ingame gold buys top tier gear and completely bypasses the endgame gear grind that takes months how is that not pay to win?
What not to love in this game? Well yeah sadly its Pay to Win. Labor points keep crafting held back so you can't just craft, making crafting feel like a side game... the best endgame gear is very difficult to obtain, and they make you gamble real money for the privilage of TRYING to get an upgrade. Mounts, Diving, Farms... I can go on and on... but for us its one of the most polished and deep new mmo there ever. We are so happy that we didn't listen to all the hate here and just tried it ourselve
Happy playing
Fixed it for you.
Sorry, LOVED ArcheAge, was the leader of a 2000 person clan, but they made the game EXTREMELY Pay to win, and after my clan captured and owned most of Auroria when it came out we all quit because there was no point.
Remember when this game was selling founders packs for something like $200 and the people who bought it loved the game. This game may have had a really bad launch but where it lost gamers was the cash shop and how land works. Hacking, botting and miss handling the community. Good game bad management of a game?
Originally posted by Nanfoodle Remember when this game was selling founders packs for something like $200 and the people who bought it loved the game. This game may have had a really bad launch but where it lost gamers was the cash shop and how land works. Hacking, botting and miss handling the community. Good game bad management of a game?
If they removed labor, nerfed crafting exp, got rid of all the pay to win elements from the cash shop, and added in meaningful hard PVE, and had more than one leveling path for the ONE time you level through the game (how do they expect you to level an alt class? Oh, buying crafting potions and using labor pots so you can PL yourself other wise it's utterly the MOST tedious thing since grinding solo in FFXI. Yeah they should fix that too.
Game has bad design flaws as well as being poorly managed.
Funny thing is that if players could stop constantly obsessing about what their neighbor has and how they got it, many would still be playing it. Just about every P2W argument hinges on this ONE POINT, "Keeping up with the Joneses". If what your neighbor has not only ruins the game for you but also requires you to put yourself into financial stress, the core of this issue I fear has NOTHING to do with Archeage.
Here's an idea, play the game at your own pace forget about your neighbor and progress at the pace that your lifestyle and finances permit?!
Lol. hang on... cancel my last post. I subscribed as a patron and now I find the first thing I need is a bag expansion. So now I have to use the cash shop fifteen minutes after paying the first monthly sub? Is this the way of Archeage? Cant see me lasting the month that I have paid for if it is all like this. Bit miffed to be honest.
Originally posted by shass Lol. hang on... cancel my last post. I subscribed as a patron and now I find the first thing I need is a bag expansion. So now I have to use the cash shop fifteen minutes after paying the first monthly sub? Is this the way of Archeage? Cant see me lasting the month that I have paid for if it is all like this. Bit miffed to be honest.
Use an alt and send him mail.
You could also mail to yourself, indefinite space for indefinite time.
get through you gear and salvage lower lvl of same pieces, you ll never need it again.
If you have spare gold, buy expansion FOR GOLD from AH and not from cash shop.
Funny thing is that if players could stop constantly obsessing about what their neighbor has and how they got it, many would still be playing it. Just about every P2W argument hinges on this ONE POINT, "Keeping up with the Joneses". If what your neighbor has not only ruins the game for you but also requires you to put yourself into financial stress, the core of this issue I fear has NOTHING to do with Archeage.
Here's an idea, play the game at your own pace forget about your neighbor and progress at the pace that your lifestyle and finances permit?!
If the game wasn't very focused on PVP and on fixed PVP for it's endgame (arena and fixed cap numbers of players sieges) then I'd say that you were right.
However, when you are only able to do these activities primarily for entertainment at end game and to stay competitive you need to shell out real money... there is a problem.
Originally posted by shass Lol. hang on... cancel my last post. I subscribed as a patron and now I find the first thing I need is a bag expansion. So now I have to use the cash shop fifteen minutes after paying the first monthly sub? Is this the way of Archeage? Cant see me lasting the month that I have paid for if it is all like this. Bit miffed to be honest.
That is basically the way of it.
Even paying a sub equivalent, you will still have to buy a lot out of the cash shop, especially if you craft (labor points are an abomination). Or play the game as a full time job or run 4 bots.
While this kind of BS might fly in Korea/Asia, it turns most Western players off.(Plus all the bots/hacks as well, of which there are TONS.)
Which is why there have been HEAVY population declines on the NA servers.
The only thing this game doesn't have, which I think it might could use, is a non-exploitable bounty system like Age of Wushu had. Other than that, it is pretty much a flawless thing, and EVERY friend and family member that I have (who plays these kinds of games) plays it, and it's been something like 7 years since we all agreed on anything.
Yall can hate all you want. But Archeage is good for a SOLID couple of months of real good times. And if you are a lifer, like a lot of us are, it might even be good for a lot longer as only now are SOME of the players actually figuring out how things REALLY work.
Also, for the record. I pay for patron monthly in credits. $20 a month. Nothing more. Yeah it's a little more expensive than I am used to but I am in no way whaling my way through the game and yet I can still hang out with, be respected by, and on many an occasion, beat the crap out of a whale.
And that's good stuff.
I give the game an A+ Rating and wonder seriously how anything else is going to pull the people who are really playing it out.
Trion would have to shoot its own self in the foot I think.
Comments
The major flaw against your "bought gear in the cash shop isn't possible" argument is that they paid for the gold they used. Just because you can't find the gear they are wearing in the shop doesn't mean they didn't buy it with RL cash.
It just means they bought things out of the shop with RL cash to sell on the market for the exorbitant amount of gold they used, which hardly constitutes a non-P2W investment.
As far as the "quite good" pve gear?
That's only worth a damn after you pump a 10s of Ks of gold into it to regrade it.
That's the rub.
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
Every game is plaqued by goldsellers there is major improvement lately and gold spamming and email spamming is under control.
Many things get sold in AH.
For example TS trees. You get lotsa golds for it. Gilda stars blueprints. Buildingspots. Did i mention how rich you become through fishing ? Its a market and various ways to make easy gold.
The power is in the market and not the cash shop, thats the difference from pay to win.
Bought gold may make you faster to progress but thats it and clearly not pay to win.
Quite good .yes !
For the effort spend and for it being free of any gold it is better then quite good.
What do you want ? hand you a win button from the few hours invested vs the costs and effort of the crafted gear ?
Of course its not as good as crafted gear of similar levels.
I just quit Archeage, after playing since launch.
It is one of the best MMOs I have played, but there are reasons I left. I don't have time to commit to MMOs as much anymore. This game is a time-sink to the highest degree, up there with Aion and other Korean grinders. The grinding in this game is the crafting system, it isn't as deep as it is grindy. Although it is fantastic imo, I just want to get to a point where I am on equal footing with top players and after almost 5-6 months, I am barely keeping up with average.
That and the P2W aspects kind of drove me away. I don't want to have to pay money to be able to keep up with people to the level that Archeage requires sometimes.
Small complaints though, I don't play any MMO right now all for different reasons. These are the reasons for why I left Archeage. Have fun and if you can enjoy this game, play it, because it can be a blast with the right guild.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
I tired to like this game. I did enjoy leveling. They kinda destroyed the community for crafters themselves. At the start thunderstruck trees were the money makers. Then guess what they add thunderstruck to cash shop. They added the hasla weapons way sooner than they were suppose to. No point raising weapon crafting since you can go grind a poor mans epic. The grind there is horrible to if your faction doesn't outnumber the other.
Then the northern continent opens up, omg what a huge problem they had. 2/3 of my guild which was about 150 people couldn't log in. In total between 3 teamspeaks out of about 500 people only 100 or so were able to get in. Then when you got in it was so laggy you couldn't even target someone. We had a 3 guild pact with even an enemy faction included and missed out on claiming a zone. As you know the zones once claim are yours pretty much forever. I don't know of a siege that has one ever. I did stop keeping up with this a few months ago so I may be wrong here but to my knowledge in Russia it didn't happen. After the mess of the aruroia launch about half the guild quit playing right away drove a lot of people away.
About the only thing I can say I really was enjoying when I quit was going pirating with my guild on the open sea.
Farming got old after a while. It would take a while just to harvest and replant a large farm. Not to bad once you can make bundles but until then it takes forever if you are trying to maximize your return.
Overall the core game is great it is the management of the game that is horrible. Releasing content to early to the way the cash shop was handled to a mismanaged expansion launch to many things went wrong. I don't blame trion for everything as XL has the rights to the game but it has been a trainwreck in motion since the start. Selling crafting components in the cash shop doesn't work to well in the west pisses off most crafters.
What does gold sellers have to do with buying apex from trion or labor pots from the cash shop and then selling them for gold on the auction house. I could log in today and spend thousands of dollars on apex then sell them for in game gold then buy the best gear in the game and kill pretty much any person in the game with ease how is that not pay to win takes no time or effort just lots of money. Also none of the ways you mentioned to earn gold is going to make you rich or even buy one piece of top tier gear anytime soon.
Thought the points i made was sound.
Ok stay at your example : So you buy thousands of APEX and labor pots and flood the market.
What will happen ?
The prices will dwindle go down, people who didn't spend a dime on the game buy lots of them and get easy credits and easy labor they spend to catch up to you for free.
The power is in the player market and not the cash shop. You may get your gear but so will the freeloader too just shortly after you.
The best gear on my server is on a person who fishes extensively, never spend a dime.
Your points were not sound because none of the methods you mentioned like fishing, selling thunderstruck trees or farming gilda is gonna let you compete with someone who just drops thousands of dollars of real money on the game buying apex or anything on the marketplace and selling it for in game gold.
The prices of the items that a whale would put on the marketplace would not dwindle down in price that much because guess what there already whales in this game pumping thousands of dollars worth of marketplace items and apex onto the auction houses and last time I checked the prices of said items still cost a ton of gold, so your point of people buying tons of cheap apex and pots is not gonna happen and even if it did they would be spread around the servers and is not gonna let any one person somehow catch up to any of the whales.
I highly doubt the best gear which can cost thousands if not tens of thousands of gold for a single piece of top tier gear is on a guy who fishes on your server find it hard to believe. In the end you keep saying the power is in the player market well guess what gold controls that market and the easiest way to get gold is to spend real money and no other method in this game will ever let you compete or stay caught up with a whale.
From what I saw, the general consensus from most threads on the official forums was that trade routes, fishing, and thunder struck trees were absolutely HORRIBLE ways to make money in the current inflated economy. Trade Routes and Fishing give a fixed amount of revenue and profit which has stayed the same since the game came out, while inflation has gone up and up and up, making them a ridiculous waste of time today. And Thunderstruck tree prices never recovered from that time they were indirectly available in the cash shop.
Most people agreed that the only decent way to really make money now was to play the auction house day-trading game or to sell APEX and other cash shop related items. Those are the only aspects of the economy that have been adjusted for inflation. (interestingly enough, even selling housing doesn't seem to be worth it unless it's in a prime location according to many people. Lots of people theorize that it's because the population's decreased so much that demand for land is low now, although the ludicrous prices of housing trade certificates due to inflation doesn't help)
I've been playing since the first day of Alpha nearly a year ago. It's got to be doing something right for me to stick it out that long. With most games I quit after the first month or two.
It's noticeable that most of the complaints people are making against the game here are based on old information. It's true Trion and XL Games have made a pretty poor effort of managing the game a lot of the time but gradually things have been fixed. Gold selling spam has just about gone, bots have just about gone, hackers have all just about gone. The result is that prices have been coming down considerably and anyone doing regular trade pack runs can easily earn enough to buy Apex to play the game for free. I don't even need to do that. My farms earn me enough to buy all the Apex I need for two accounts.
It's absolute garbage for people to say you have to spend real money in the shop all the time to play the game. You can use the shop to speed progress up if you want but it's not essential. The only time I used real money was when the game first launched, first of all to buy the two founders packs I have and then I bought a few Apex to get some gold to buy the resources I needed to build my farms, clipper, house. Since then, I've only used it to buy the upgrades for my farm carts and the Land expansion certificate for my two Gazebos. I didn't have to do any of those things though. It was my decision because I wanted them straight away and not to have to wait while I earned in-game gold to do the same thing.
The other spurious claim I keep reading here is the game is dead/dying. It's absolutely not. I play on both a NA server and and an EU one. Both have very healthy populations, the chat channels are busy 24/7. The farms around mine are mostly being used daily by the same people who have been there since launch. If there has been any decline in the population, my guess it's the freeloaders who were trying unsuccessfully to play the game without contributing any money at all are the ones who left. You can often see who these people are because they are accusing the game of being P2W when what they are really objecting to is having to actually pay any money at all to play the game. Archeage is no different to other F2P games. You can play without spending any money at all if you want but just spending a little bit makes the game more enjoyable.
The point is people made thousands of golds by other ways and bought best gear without using the cash shop. At least you accept the fact that they did so in the past.
I repeat again that the best geared person on my server is someone who did fishing, despit the "buy to win" propaganda on this forum.
If the fishing NOW is not profitable anymore i can't say because i don't fish. But I sold Gildastars recently for thousands of gold.
I am afraid the misconception of the propaganda have other roots. Western players are a lazy lot that won't to be confronted with any effort as a rule. They call 'grind' any type of gameplay that requires any time investment or any other challenge.
So because they dont want to accept their problem with longterm commitment and their "give me now' approach to gaming BUT still want to "rule" and "own" they need someone else to blame if they loose. This time it is the misconception you refer in your post aka "pay to win" propaganda.
I strongly believe if the game didnt had a cash shop at all, it would be something else on the game they would lay blame on.
very likely "uhm its too time consuming to become competetive" ..see yow the blame switch from "pay to win" to "time to win" ? even tho now with "pay to win" they have a chance to progress faster while having a social life and jobs and all that...
You cant get it right for this lazy westerners who want it all now without any effort ...
Just started an account with wifey and really enjoying it so far. Quite a lot to wrap the head around but it seems very polished and plenty do do. We both prefer the journey so the endgame drama is of no interest. Always happy to pay for entertainment and for those who whine when everything is not free... get real, it is a business and provides jobs. Good game.
I find it funny that you think western gamers are lazy people it has nothing to do with the grind it is the ability to bypass that grind by spending real money there is no challenge whipping out your credit card and buying gold. I just do not understand how you keep missing the point that gold equals power in this game it gets you the best gear, pots and whatever else you need to dominate and the easiest way to get it is spending real money no other method in this game will let you compete with a whale.
Example: Whale spend thousands of dollars on apex and marketplace item sells for ingame gold buys top tier gear and completely bypasses the endgame gear grind that takes months how is that not pay to win?
Fixed it for you.
Sorry, LOVED ArcheAge, was the leader of a 2000 person clan, but they made the game EXTREMELY Pay to win, and after my clan captured and owned most of Auroria when it came out we all quit because there was no point.
If they removed labor, nerfed crafting exp, got rid of all the pay to win elements from the cash shop, and added in meaningful hard PVE, and had more than one leveling path for the ONE time you level through the game (how do they expect you to level an alt class? Oh, buying crafting potions and using labor pots so you can PL yourself other wise it's utterly the MOST tedious thing since grinding solo in FFXI. Yeah they should fix that too.
Game has bad design flaws as well as being poorly managed.
Funny thing is that if players could stop constantly obsessing about what their neighbor has and how they got it, many would still be playing it. Just about every P2W argument hinges on this ONE POINT, "Keeping up with the Joneses". If what your neighbor has not only ruins the game for you but also requires you to put yourself into financial stress, the core of this issue I fear has NOTHING to do with Archeage.
Here's an idea, play the game at your own pace forget about your neighbor and progress at the pace that your lifestyle and finances permit?!
Use an alt and send him mail.
You could also mail to yourself, indefinite space for indefinite time.
get through you gear and salvage lower lvl of same pieces, you ll never need it again.
If you have spare gold, buy expansion FOR GOLD from AH and not from cash shop.
Ahh.. thanks for advice. I'll give it a try.
If the game wasn't very focused on PVP and on fixed PVP for it's endgame (arena and fixed cap numbers of players sieges) then I'd say that you were right.
However, when you are only able to do these activities primarily for entertainment at end game and to stay competitive you need to shell out real money... there is a problem.
"Gimme, gimme endgame NOW for free.
am i playing MMORPG ? dunno, who cares ...
i want endgame for free and NOW without any effort."
That is basically the way of it.
Even paying a sub equivalent, you will still have to buy a lot out of the cash shop, especially if you craft (labor points are an abomination). Or play the game as a full time job or run 4 bots.
While this kind of BS might fly in Korea/Asia, it turns most Western players off.(Plus all the bots/hacks as well, of which there are TONS.)
Which is why there have been HEAVY population declines on the NA servers.
The only thing this game doesn't have, which I think it might could use, is a non-exploitable bounty system like Age of Wushu had. Other than that, it is pretty much a flawless thing, and EVERY friend and family member that I have (who plays these kinds of games) plays it, and it's been something like 7 years since we all agreed on anything.
Yall can hate all you want. But Archeage is good for a SOLID couple of months of real good times. And if you are a lifer, like a lot of us are, it might even be good for a lot longer as only now are SOME of the players actually figuring out how things REALLY work.
Also, for the record. I pay for patron monthly in credits. $20 a month. Nothing more. Yeah it's a little more expensive than I am used to but I am in no way whaling my way through the game and yet I can still hang out with, be respected by, and on many an occasion, beat the crap out of a whale.
And that's good stuff.
I give the game an A+ Rating and wonder seriously how anything else is going to pull the people who are really playing it out.
Trion would have to shoot its own self in the foot I think.