Well your ability to affect the world doesn't seem that appealing, if those changes aren't persistent. And they aren't persistent because the world will most certainly die and there isn't a damn thing you can do to stop it.
I still think the concept is very interesting, but having nothing left to remind you of the great deeds you accomplished in those worlds those achievements don't feel very important.
Originally posted by Shadanwolf Crowfall has already gotten the majority of its funding needs from private investors. Kickstarter was for additional money over and above the sizable private investment from private investors.
Ah, so they couldn't raise that last $800K from private investors ? Presumably the private investors were only prepared to give them $28.2M, and not the full $30M that they needed ?
Let's face it, when it comes to MMO development costs, any $800K KS project is just a PR stunt.
Games looks to be promising....but what's with the 30k threads promoting it by MMORPG? As well as others...but gimme a break on the spotlight. Kinda making me wonder
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
During Red Thomas' interview with Coleman, the discussion turned to the possibility for a player to gimp themselves. This type of learning has always excited me as I get increasingly frustrated with games that hold your hand. "If you want to be a chef, you probably shouldn’t go for that computer science degree," Red pointed out in his article. "Most games would prevent you from doing something that silly, but then they also would prevent you from finding a cool way to use that computer science degree to make your chef completely unique from every other one out there. The freedom to fail is an incredibly powerful, and often overlooked, tool. I’m really glad to see these guys are taking advantage of it."
Very exciting.
It's not like 90% of today's players don't Google a build and copy paste it or anything. =P
Even on games like ESO, SWTOR and WoW you see people asking for builds, or Googling them.
You and the writer are totally bass ackwards on this. It's the ability to fail a build that makes people google search for the best builds.
Basically what they're saying is "we're not going to balance every build". That's fine, but when you do that, you're building a system that pushes the power gamers (and since this seems to be a competitive PVP type game, that's 99% of the players) into the most powerful - or ungimped builds.
Now, if respeccing or changing your build has a relatively low cost, it's not a big deal. If you have to flush 100 hours of gameplay down the toilet to do so, then you'll wind up with a game that has 2,000,000 possible character builds of which 7 are used.
Originally posted by Shadanwolf Crowfall has already gotten the majority of its funding needs from private investors. Kickstarter was for additional money over and above the sizable private investment from private investors.
Ah, so they couldn't raise that last $800K from private investors ? Presumably the private investors were only prepared to give them $28.2M, and not the full $30M that they needed ?
Let's face it, when it comes to MMO development costs, any $800K KS project is just a PR stunt.
No, not really. Even if the plan is to use primarily external funding, what the Kickstarter shows to investors is that there is a real demand for the game design with real people willing to pay real money. So, you could call it market research, but it's a lot of hassle setting up a Kickstarter just for a publicity stunt.
I seriously doubt the budget is $30 million, by the way. Rule of thumb is about $100K annually per team member.
Well your ability to affect the world doesn't seem that appealing, if those changes aren't persistent. And they aren't persistent because the world will most certainly die and there isn't a damn thing you can do to stop it.
I still think the concept is very interesting, but having nothing left to remind you of the great deeds you accomplished in those worlds those achievements don't feel very important.
My dream MMO design has a similar concept. Basically each cycle of the world builds until the power mad create a cataclysmic effect, shattering the world and resetting everything... but in the new world, the dungeons and ruins are the keeps and cities of the previous world (or two). Still, eventually, your contributions do go away, but you do get more of that aspect of a lasting contribution.
Regardless, comparing Crowfall to the majority of current design, where players don't impact the world whatsoever, no matter how long a server goes on makes it a moot point.
Point 1 annoys me to no end in MMO's. Being able to gimp yourself because the game lacks ingame documentation about skills or some skills were nerfed into oblivion, is hardly a player's fault. This is just bad gamedesign. If some gamer decides to become, I don't know, a stealthy lasershooting fisherman, then the skills to chose to support that playstyle should be obvious after reading skill descriptions.
Also, a game can be designed with any restriction, so it should not be the job of the player to find out after rolling a toon, that being a stealthy lasershooting fisherman is not possible without being bad in all three skills. It should be clear from the start that this particular game advises you to chose two main skilllines instead of 3 or more. But so often these basics are not even told,
Anyway, the moment a player feels forced to look up guides outside the game, because of vague skill descriptions or possible heavily nerfed skills, or simply lack of any information about the game's 1000 skills, the devs did the job poorly! (apart from the case where the player is just plain stupid ofc)
"These worlds are not only living and dying all around us, but they're procedurally generated and unique."
Definitely wont be buying this game if I cant get into beta to see this first. The worst part of SWG was this very thing that destroyed the X/Y 3D axis, allowed for shooting through hills to hit whats on the other side, didn't allow for jumping and provided a ditch every 10-12 feet. The randomness of it all created a great many bugs that they could never fix as well like the random placement of missions that placed the objective in the doorways of homes so not only could you not destroy it, the owner couldn't get into his home until a server reset.
These types of things are great for single player games for a map generator or a game like Mount and Blade to create mods with...for MMOs though, hasn't been done correctly yet.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Originally posted by NightHaveN Also is how are you going to fix wrong builds. If is a simple gui Or talk to npc and pay a small or zero charge, or it involves what sometimes Korean and Chinesse games do, a reset item from a cshop.
This point is moot because everyone is going to use whatever build wiki says is the most OP. You could make crap builds in any game... funny how most everyone doesn't.
Kind of upset and disappointed that they are adding better aesthetics and mounts for the game as stretch goals first instead of adding more core mechanics by making more Campaign Worlds available on launch... I have to admit.
------------------------- "Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
I like how they are linking rogue like (procedural level creation) with mmorpg racing (2-3 month cycle).
My real concern is the leveling between cycles. If I'm level 50 at the beginning of a new cycle, how much of the new procedural content am I looking at?
I like how they are linking rogue like (procedural level creation) with mmorpg racing (2-3 month cycle).
My real concern is the leveling between cycles. If I'm level 50 at the beginning of a new cycle, how much of the new procedural content am I looking at?
There aren't levels. Progression is skilled based (active & passive), allowing the gap between new/vet players to not be extremely wide or at least not hard to close relatively quickly. With "maxing" taking a long time.
I was excited when I heard an MMO was coming that seemed to get that the genre was stale, and it was being headed up by some guys from old mmo's that got it. Unfortunately, what I'm seeing here is not attractive at all. The persistent world is instanced and non pvp??? They don't get anything unfortunately. I mean sure they came up with a new idea, but it doesnt sound meaningful or immersive whatsoever. This home world or eternal kingdom will not interest me at all...more boring instanced garbage. The campaigns are player decided on rule sets?? Bad idea...Don't make a game that is basically an extended length arena conquest pvp queue and call it an mmorpg. This has failed to miss the mark in most aspects. I'm guessing the crafting will likely be disappointing also considering the world really has very little persistence. To have meaningful crafting you need constant interaction in the world to make a real difference and impact in a world along with complexity, but without the first complexity is pointless. Blah...another MMO that just doesn't quite get it.
Yes, the first ruleset is the Dregs, and stated promise of the kickstarter is to build the core + the first ruleset. Our intention, however, is to build the entire game vision.
Thanks for the quote. Seems like I'll be passing on the game at launch after all.
The Dregs (gankfest) is the ruleset I'm least interested in, and with having that as the only option I'll settle for playing something else until the others see the light of day.
Ah well, MMOs are generally better a couple of months after release anyway.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
When Camelot Unchained was in kickstarter it received a good reception from the media outlets, as far as I am aware there has been little news in the two years between the kickstarter and now. When I mean little news I mean stories that aren't newsworthy. When Guild Wars 2 does a feature pack that is newsworthy or releases an expansion it is newsworthy and will receive numerous articles every time a new feature of the expansion pack is announced. You can't expect Camelot Unchained to receive so much new coverage.
Crowfall was announced Q4 last year and went into kickstarter the end of last month, it's as fresh as it comes. Nobody cares about the weekly updates from CU about how they've delayed the alpha again.
It's not just MMORPG, Gamespot, PCGamer, Kotaku and others are all reporting on Crowfall because it's news , it's recent and relevant.
It's not just MMORPG, Gamespot, PCGamer, Kotaku and others are all reporting on Crowfall because it's news , it's recent and relevant.
And it's original, which is something that makes people want to learn more about it.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Comments
Well your ability to affect the world doesn't seem that appealing, if those changes aren't persistent. And they aren't persistent because the world will most certainly die and there isn't a damn thing you can do to stop it.
I still think the concept is very interesting, but having nothing left to remind you of the great deeds you accomplished in those worlds those achievements don't feel very important.
Ah, so they couldn't raise that last $800K from private investors ? Presumably the private investors were only prepared to give them $28.2M, and not the full $30M that they needed ?
Let's face it, when it comes to MMO development costs, any $800K KS project is just a PR stunt.
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
You and the writer are totally bass ackwards on this. It's the ability to fail a build that makes people google search for the best builds.
Basically what they're saying is "we're not going to balance every build". That's fine, but when you do that, you're building a system that pushes the power gamers (and since this seems to be a competitive PVP type game, that's 99% of the players) into the most powerful - or ungimped builds.
Now, if respeccing or changing your build has a relatively low cost, it's not a big deal. If you have to flush 100 hours of gameplay down the toilet to do so, then you'll wind up with a game that has 2,000,000 possible character builds of which 7 are used.
No, not really. Even if the plan is to use primarily external funding, what the Kickstarter shows to investors is that there is a real demand for the game design with real people willing to pay real money. So, you could call it market research, but it's a lot of hassle setting up a Kickstarter just for a publicity stunt.
I seriously doubt the budget is $30 million, by the way. Rule of thumb is about $100K annually per team member.
My dream MMO design has a similar concept. Basically each cycle of the world builds until the power mad create a cataclysmic effect, shattering the world and resetting everything... but in the new world, the dungeons and ruins are the keeps and cities of the previous world (or two). Still, eventually, your contributions do go away, but you do get more of that aspect of a lasting contribution.
Regardless, comparing Crowfall to the majority of current design, where players don't impact the world whatsoever, no matter how long a server goes on makes it a moot point.
Point 1 annoys me to no end in MMO's. Being able to gimp yourself because the game lacks ingame documentation about skills or some skills were nerfed into oblivion, is hardly a player's fault. This is just bad gamedesign. If some gamer decides to become, I don't know, a stealthy lasershooting fisherman, then the skills to chose to support that playstyle should be obvious after reading skill descriptions.
Also, a game can be designed with any restriction, so it should not be the job of the player to find out after rolling a toon, that being a stealthy lasershooting fisherman is not possible without being bad in all three skills. It should be clear from the start that this particular game advises you to chose two main skilllines instead of 3 or more. But so often these basics are not even told,
Anyway, the moment a player feels forced to look up guides outside the game, because of vague skill descriptions or possible heavily nerfed skills, or simply lack of any information about the game's 1000 skills, the devs did the job poorly! (apart from the case where the player is just plain stupid ofc)
"These worlds are not only living and dying all around us, but they're procedurally generated and unique."
Definitely wont be buying this game if I cant get into beta to see this first. The worst part of SWG was this very thing that destroyed the X/Y 3D axis, allowed for shooting through hills to hit whats on the other side, didn't allow for jumping and provided a ditch every 10-12 feet. The randomness of it all created a great many bugs that they could never fix as well like the random placement of missions that placed the objective in the doorways of homes so not only could you not destroy it, the owner couldn't get into his home until a server reset.
These types of things are great for single player games for a map generator or a game like Mount and Blade to create mods with...for MMOs though, hasn't been done correctly yet.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
This point is moot because everyone is going to use whatever build wiki says is the most OP. You could make crap builds in any game... funny how most everyone doesn't.
-------------------------
"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
Member Since March 2004
I like how they are linking rogue like (procedural level creation) with mmorpg racing (2-3 month cycle).
My real concern is the leveling between cycles. If I'm level 50 at the beginning of a new cycle, how much of the new procedural content am I looking at?
Werewolf Online(R) - Lead Developer
There aren't levels. Progression is skilled based (active & passive), allowing the gap between new/vet players to not be extremely wide or at least not hard to close relatively quickly. With "maxing" taking a long time.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
When Camelot Unchained was in kickstarter it received a good reception from the media outlets, as far as I am aware there has been little news in the two years between the kickstarter and now. When I mean little news I mean stories that aren't newsworthy. When Guild Wars 2 does a feature pack that is newsworthy or releases an expansion it is newsworthy and will receive numerous articles every time a new feature of the expansion pack is announced. You can't expect Camelot Unchained to receive so much new coverage.
Crowfall was announced Q4 last year and went into kickstarter the end of last month, it's as fresh as it comes. Nobody cares about the weekly updates from CU about how they've delayed the alpha again.
It's not just MMORPG, Gamespot, PCGamer, Kotaku and others are all reporting on Crowfall because it's news , it's recent and relevant.
And it's original, which is something that makes people want to learn more about it.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999