Although my views may generally not reflect the masses- I am not asking to take everything away from the mases and cater to me ONLY. However, people who are the opposing side of this argument seem to want that- They cannot stand that people are asking for something more and act like its a personal affront to their entire existance. How dare someone want something else. How dare someone not be happy with what the masses enjoy.
No one is against folks getting such a game,such a conclusion shows you really don't read and consider what is being said, you just take offense outright.
These arguments almost always begin with a "Why?" post... Which in large part many are just trying to offer their take on that "Why?"... They might include opinions such as finding such mechanics/designs undesirable, that doesn't mean they don't want people to have such a game. It's simply their take on that "Why?" Which is why we're here in the first place, to offer such opinions.
There's no reason to pull the victimization card, which is essentially what such a conclusion is.
Though one thing that must also be said, is you must reflect on your own delivery of your own opinions, if you're one of those folks who consistently bash every new MMO over and over. Don't be surprised when folks throw that back at you when you offer opinions on what you do want. Throwing stones from glass houses and all that.
I suppose its a good think I barely even talk about any newer MMOs. Outside of Kickstart games like greed monger and ship seller online (games that do not even exist) the only game I have "bashed" thats new is ESO for a variety of reasons.
N0 victimization card either. I certainly dont feel victimized over anything that has to do with a hobby. I feel underrepresented and whenever this is talked about the white knights come running to tell me/us that we are wrong and should go find a new hobby if we dont like it.
And if you follow this thread and who I was speaking with - Outside of generalizations- I am being told , essentially that since the majority like these games I should just quit "bitching"(papaphrased) which is what brought this entire "majority doesnt know shit" comment I have given.
that's like saying "no offense" but then following it up with something offensive! You clever dog!
God willing, some western government will go the way of the Chinese and implement some sort of time restraint for mmorpg players.
No offence is ALWAYS followed by something offensive No offence = "excuse me but I am going to shit all over you"
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Many of these posts not only ask the why question but then follow it up with a statement or entitlement belief that there should be a game out there that meets there needs simply because they want it.
Nothing works like that. Nothing is given to you simple because you want it. Sometimes you might be lucky and that thing will be available, missy times there are otherreasons abd your desires are irrelevant.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Many of these posts not only ask the why question but then follow it up with a statement or entitlement belief that there should be a game out there that meets there needs simply because they want it.
Nothing works like that. Nothing is given to you simple because you want it. Sometimes you might be lucky and that thing will be available, missy times there are otherreasons abd your desires are irrelevant.
You guys have a strange idea of what "entitlement" means.
Nobody is saying we are entitled to anything. We are not wanting something for FREE or given to us because we deserve it. We (or at least "I" since I'm not wanting to speak for anyone) am saying that these games are not entitled to MY money as they currently are. I am making it clear that I want to PAY for a game that fits my needs and if there isnt one, I will continue to express MY dissatisfaction and will continue to vote with MY wallet by not buying what I consider trash games.
Expressing dissatisfaction with the current state of things and wanting change is NOT entitlement. Its expressing dissatisfaction. It saying "I love(d) this genre and right now there is nothing worth playing for me and noting for me to spend MONEY on. "
I also complain about barak Obamas policies. I (a former Democrat) have expressed to my reps that unless the democratic party changes to a more moderate stance they have lost my vote.This isnt entitlement. This is life.Not to be political but its essentially the same thing.
So we are acting entitled for wanting games we would like to play and spend money on? By that line of thinking everyone is entitled and the word has lost its meaning.
-So...To take this quote of yours
"Many of these posts not only ask the why question but then follow it up with a statement or entitlement belief that there should be a game out there that meets there needs simply because they want it."
Considering this is a hobby and these are GAMES- There is no NEED in any part of this (or any other topic) and we should just close the forum down and quit talking about things that all are wants.
EDIT- Im would alsoadd that the only entitlement I am seeing are from the folks thinking they are entitled to complain about other peoples dissatisfaction.YOU are not entitled to control the conversation on this forum. You are not ENTITLED to have a forum free from complaining. So grow up. Quit acting entitled.
Originally posted by NightHaveN In my line of work, I allways said about the users these 3: 1. They don't know what they want. 2. They don't know what the problem is. 3. They are never right.
And considering those 3 is why (ignoring bugs for a min) some games have failed. Developers have a vision based on users comments, then they drop the game, and players said... That's not what I was expecting.
So I complain about people reposting the same over and over, complain about buggy games, complain about users (players) in general, complain about companies that want to milk you with cash shops, etc, etc.
Its your RIGHT to complain. Just as its the other sides right.
At least you are coming at things from a realistic position and not claiming that someone is acting entitled for wanting a game to spend money on while bitching on a FREE FORUM. And not being satisfied with the current generation of what is being produced.
To those who who want to debate against the complainers (like yourself) I say- Awesome. Moast people donot want an echo chamber with only one opinion being allowed. Nobody is entitled to use a free forum and try to hinder dissenting opinions. THOSE people (not you) should either
a) Start paying money to Bill M. so they have a vested interest and a right to have a voice on what discussion is allowed
b) Find a Forum that is an echo chamber and only represents opinions they agree with
c) start their own forum
-Those on the opposing spectrum are not demanding that games be made for FREE to suit their tastes. Entitlement is when you think you are owed something for nothing...Like people trying to control a conversation on a free forum that they are using for free. Acting as if they are owed peace of mind by not hearing other opinions they do not like.
Debate and disagreement is awesome . Especially with people who are acting like adults. There are good points AND dumb points being made on both sides. Some people will never be satisfied. Some people are complaining just to complain (on both sides) and some make good , solid and fair points.
Entitlement doesn't mean that you get something for free. It is a belief that you have a right it that you deserve something and that is absolutely the sentiment expressed by many. That they deserve a game simply because they want it and all these devs are crap and terrible because they are not getting what they want.
That is entitlement.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Complaining is fine. Many do that. But stating or implying that a game should be made with your tastes for no more reason than you want it.
Thst id entitlement.
You are incorrect. Saying you DESERVE a game would be an entitled attitude.
Webster defines it as saying you have a RIGHT to something. Nobody is saying that at all except for those thinking they have a RIGHT to not hear complaining. Nobody is wanting special privilege or demanding that they be given special privilege..Except... The other side.
Special snowflakes not wanting to hear complaining on a free forum. Unless its their complaining which evidently is fine.
en·ti·tle·ment
in?t?dlm?nt,en?t?dlm?nt/
noun
entitlement to fees and maintenance should be offered"
the amount to which a person has a right.
"annual leave entitlement"
the belief that one is inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Then you agree with me because that's what i stated inthe post above tthat. They feel they deserve a game.
Who feels that way? Who said they deserve anything? Not me.
EDIT- If you can show me a post where someone says they "deserve" a game, (EDIT- OR to go with the Webster definition,that they have a RIGHT to a certain type of game) I would concur. That is stupid. Asking for something and thinking you deserve it,complaining and thinking they HAVE to listen would be an attitude of entitlement.
If the market does not represent me and I complain- This is NOT entitlement. Its feedback and dissatisfaction/.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Then you agree with me because that's what i stated inthe post above tthat. They feel they deserve a game.
Who feels that way? Who said they deserve anything? Not me.
EDIT- If you can show me a post where someone says they "deserve" a game, (EDIT- OR to go with the Webster definition,that they have a RIGHT to a certain type of game) I would concur. That is stupid. Asking for something and thinking you deserve it,complaining and thinking they HAVE to listen would be an attitude of entitlement.
If the market does not represent me and I complain- This is NOT entitlement. Its feedback and dissatisfaction/.
Forget it. No one is going to utter the word "deserve". What you can see is people who are endlessly complaining why they don't have an AAA game when their niche cannot support an AAA title. Complain and bash the games that don't cater to their niche and their players.
It's a very nasty spiral.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I didnt say you felt that way. I have seen that sentiment many times on these boards. I want a game, why can't i have this, devs are stupid for mot giving me this...
Many many many times.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Then you agree with me because that's what i stated inthe post above tthat. They feel they deserve a game.
Who feels that way? Who said they deserve anything? Not me.
EDIT- If you can show me a post where someone says they "deserve" a game, (EDIT- OR to go with the Webster definition,that they have a RIGHT to a certain type of game) I would concur. That is stupid. Asking for something and thinking you deserve it,complaining and thinking they HAVE to listen would be an attitude of entitlement.
If the market does not represent me and I complain- This is NOT entitlement. Its feedback and dissatisfaction/.
Forget it. No one is going to utter the word "deserve". What you can see is people who are endlessly complaining why they don't have an AAA game when their niche cannot support an AAA title. Complain and bash the games that don't cater to their niche and their players.
It's a very nasty spiral.
I agree 100%. However, its the use of "entitlement" I find insulting.
There are some who are...Crazy. I saw a post the other day where someone said(paraphrase..) "This game is awesome,has every feature I ever wanted, good graphics, runs well,...BUT , its Tab targeting so I wont play"- That imho, is a very stupid reason to not play a game that has everything you want- Still, it isnt entitlement. hes not saying "I have a RIGHT..." but rather, "Change this and I will give you my money"
-Its a dumb opinion , but not an entitled one.
Other (like myself) have a certain type of game we want (not going to rehash my desire) and I would gladly pay whatever the cost is if they can even cater to 50% of my wants... And I will continue to express this. I would pay $50/month for a game I like and it would still save me money. I also play all types of games and know"the perfect game" will never happen.
-Now we have complaining about the complainers who are complaining lol. This too is a never ending cycle.
If the market does not represent me and I complain- This is NOT entitlement. Its feedback and dissatisfaction/.
No, it's called ranting because you are not even attempting to speak to actual parties involved. Game developers website is over there >>>
I would agree with "Ranting" to a degree.
This is an MMORPG forum. This is the place to rant.
Dont like it? Your own forum that you create is over there >>>>>
Until the owners of this site say otherwise, Ranting is permissible. This is private property . there are no "Rights" here. Sothe owners are evidently okay with ranting.
Yes, OP. Now, let us hold hands and sing kumbaya once more. We need but propose the site admins and all them dissenters receive a nice hot spanking.
Kumbaya my lord~
(On a little bit more serious note, it's true that many, myself included, could at times try to articulate and reason their posts better without resorting to insults, generalizations or absolutes, but what can you do. After all, this is a pub where practically anything goes. Of course there are rules for conduct, but I've never seen a thread locked or removed on the basis of insufficient argumentation - or for being simply ridiculous. I'm happy I haven't.)
Originally posted by NightHaveN In my line of work, I allways said about the users these 3: 1. They don't know what they want. 2. They don't know what the problem is. 3. They are never right.
And considering those 3 is why (ignoring bugs for a min) some games have failed. Developers have a vision based on users comments, then they drop the game, and players said... That's not what I was expecting.
So I complain about people reposting the same over and over, complain about buggy games, complain about users (players) in general, complain about companies that want to milk you with cash shops, etc, etc.
Its your RIGHT to complain. Just as its the other sides right.
At least you are coming at things from a realistic position and not claiming that someone is acting entitled for wanting a game to spend money on while bitching on a FREE FORUM. And not being satisfied with the current generation of what is being produced.
To those who who want to debate against the complainers (like yourself) I say- Awesome. Moast people donot want an echo chamber with only one opinion being allowed. Nobody is entitled to use a free forum and try to hinder dissenting opinions. THOSE people (not you) should either
a) Start paying money to Bill M. so they have a vested interest and a right to have a voice on what discussion is allowed
b) Find a Forum that is an echo chamber and only represents opinions they agree with
c) start their own forum
-Those on the opposing spectrum are not demanding that games be made for FREE to suit their tastes. Entitlement is when you think you are owed something for nothing...Like people trying to control a conversation on a free forum that they are using for free. Acting as if they are owed peace of mind by not hearing other opinions they do not like.
Debate and disagreement is awesome . Especially with people who are acting like adults. There are good points AND dumb points being made on both sides. Some people will never be satisfied. Some people are complaining just to complain (on both sides) and some make good , solid and fair points.
The point was not to suppress other people's opinion. It was more to stop the flood of identical threads. Having A billion topics on the same matter is pointless and redundant.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Originally posted by Jacxolope Originally posted by NightHaveN In my line of work, I allways said about the users these 3: 1. They don't know what they want. 2. They don't know what the problem is. 3. They are never right.
And considering those 3 is why (ignoring bugs for a min) some games have failed. Developers have a vision based on users comments, then they drop the game, and players said... That's not what I was expecting.
So I complain about people reposting the same over and over, complain about buggy games, complain about users (players) in general, complain about companies that want to milk you with cash shops, etc, etc.
Its your RIGHT to complain. Just as its the other sides right.
At least you are coming at things from a realistic position and not claiming that someone is acting entitled for wanting a game to spend money on while bitching on a FREE FORUM. And not being satisfied with the current generation of what is being produced.
To those who who want to debate against the complainers (like yourself) I say- Awesome. Moast people donot want an echo chamber with only one opinion being allowed. Nobody is entitled to use a free forum and try to hinder dissenting opinions. THOSE people (not you) should either
a) Start paying money to Bill M. so they have a vested interest and a right to have a voice on what discussion is allowed
b) Find a Forum that is an echo chamber and only represents opinions they agree with
c) start their own forum
-Those on the opposing spectrum are not demanding that games be made for FREE to suit their tastes. Entitlement is when you think you are owed something for nothing...Like people trying to control a conversation on a free forum that they are using for free. Acting as if they are owed peace of mind by not hearing other opinions they do not like.
Debate and disagreement is awesome . Especially with people who are acting like adults. There are good points AND dumb points being made on both sides. Some people will never be satisfied. Some people are complaining just to complain (on both sides) and some make good , solid and fair points.
The point was not to suppress other people's opinion. It was more to stop the flood of identical threads. Having A billion topics on the same matter is pointless and redundant.
I agree guys! We need debate around here, discussions even! A free exchange of ideas maybe? If we had that, the forums would not be stagnating at the alarming pace they have been
Yes, OP. Now, let us hold hands and sing kumbaya once more. We need but propose the site admins and all them dissenters receive a nice hot spanking.Kumbaya my lord~(On a little bit more serious note, it's true that many, myself included, could at times try to articulate and reason their posts better without resorting to insults, generalizations or absolutes, but what can you do. After all, this is a pub where practically anything goes. Of course there are rules for conduct, but I've never seen a thread locked or removed on the basis of insufficient argumentation - or for being simply ridiculous. I'm happy I haven't.)
I have seen a handful of locked posts that are curious
Originally posted by Jacxolope Originally posted by NightHaveN In my line of work, I allways said about the users these 3: 1. They don't know what they want. 2. They don't know what the problem is. 3. They are never right.
And considering those 3 is why (ignoring bugs for a min) some games have failed. Developers have a vision based on users comments, then they drop the game, and players said... That's not what I was expecting.
So I complain about people reposting the same over and over, complain about buggy games, complain about users (players) in general, complain about companies that want to milk you with cash shops, etc, etc.
Its your RIGHT to complain. Just as its the other sides right.
At least you are coming at things from a realistic position and not claiming that someone is acting entitled for wanting a game to spend money on while bitching on a FREE FORUM. And not being satisfied with the current generation of what is being produced.
To those who who want to debate against the complainers (like yourself) I say- Awesome. Moast people donot want an echo chamber with only one opinion being allowed. Nobody is entitled to use a free forum and try to hinder dissenting opinions. THOSE people (not you) should either
a) Start paying money to Bill M. so they have a vested interest and a right to have a voice on what discussion is allowed
b) Find a Forum that is an echo chamber and only represents opinions they agree with
c) start their own forum
-Those on the opposing spectrum are not demanding that games be made for FREE to suit their tastes. Entitlement is when you think you are owed something for nothing...Like people trying to control a conversation on a free forum that they are using for free. Acting as if they are owed peace of mind by not hearing other opinions they do not like.
Debate and disagreement is awesome . Especially with people who are acting like adults. There are good points AND dumb points being made on both sides. Some people will never be satisfied. Some people are complaining just to complain (on both sides) and some make good , solid and fair points.
The point was not to suppress other people's opinion. It was more to stop the flood of identical threads. Having A billion topics on the same matter is pointless and redundant.
I keep trying to start conversations here, but they keep banning me. It is very peculiar.
I don't post here too often, but on forums and community driven media in general I've always noticed that my positive posts seem to be ignored more often, people only seem to care about criticizing games or criticizing the person whos putting down a game they like / have high hopes for.
Sometimes I've even deleted ignored positive posts and given them a negative spin that results in the exact same statement, and the latter will get more attention, it really sucks.
If theres anything to bash, people will gladly join in.
This is very true. POst something positive and you probably will get very few posts and the topic will disappear within an hour or two. Post a negative topic and you get 100 pages of replies.
I've noticed that as well. I've started several posts of "Hey, let's come up with ideas for [gamemechanic]" and they got nowhere, but when I reworded it to complain about said mechanic, the traffic rolled in.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by ReallyNow10 Anyone who is truly "sick of all this moaning" would be in a game right now instead of in these forums
Unless they're on a machine they can't run an MMO on, they're at work or a place where they aren't allowed to run an MMO, they're here for a different type of entertainment or objective than an MMO offers, or any number of other reasons.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The problem with debating game mechanics is it can not go anywhere. Once the debate is over then what? It's not like that game is going to get made or even if it is made, that it will be produced and survive. Everyone on this site (myself included) is an "armchair quarterback", we aren't in the industry and nothing we say will affect it in anyway.
How many years have we all played and pitched ideas in forums to no avail? The one thing I have learned , for better or worse, those in the industry don't care what the masses think of their product. All the feedback I have seen from the industry, back to the fanbase, has been contempt for any and all criticism. So all that's left is bashing them.
Also remember that there will be far more you disagree with other people on than you will ever agree on. Lots of people hated SWG the NGE, but not all those who hated it liked SWG CU or even SWG pre-CU. The reasons someone else hated something may be very different from why you hated it, they may have hated what you liked and vice versa.
I have been reading these forums for a while and we get the same arguments regurgitated over and over again.
However, recently I noticed that this has become unbearable. Have you guys noticed how many threads we have got on oldschool MMOs, EQ, nostalgia, "what current MMOs are missing", "this was then and this is now" etc. All these are 5 billion ways of phrasing the same thing and discussing the same stuff over and over again.
At the moment there are 5-6 topics going on at the same time and they have 50 billion pages of the same stuff being regurgitated over and over again.
All these topics start with some "sudden realisation" when the OP "started to think about" "the current state" of MMOs and then proceeds to list about 10 things which you have heard a billion times. This is getting to a point where you don't even need to see the main body of the topic to know EVERYTHING that person is going to say.
Is there a reason why all these 5 topics are separate and we are having the same discussion in 5 different topics at the same time!
Are we really going to see 1 thread per every person who loved oldschool MMOs? Just in case right? In case all those 5 other topics going on at the moment with 60 billion pages fail to miss something.
Have people become so jaded they fail to see the good things? So much focus on all the negative and you never have any meaningful discussion on a individual game basis. It's all about the old games and trashtalking new games. Makes you wonder if people who visit these forums can move on from the 1980s or something. Ok, 1990s! When was the last time we had a meaningful discussion on game X, Y, Z where people assess things critically. By critical I don't mean to focus on the bad. You need a balanced view. X was good, Y was bad. Being all good and being all bad is not balanced. And if those that can't see anything good in games of the last 10 years then I am really sad for those people.
Common arguments which we have heard a billion times:
1. All the topics start with a "sudden realisation" and people contemplating the whole of the genre in the same way someone may contemplate the meaning life.
2. Throw in EQ or some other old school MMO and say that those developers only really cared about their game and developers now only care about your money.
3. Throw in some "mini" joke like mini maps or mini games
4. Sense of community was way better.
5. And of course we need to throw in the handholding thing.
6. Dont fail to mention that in old MMOs you had to no life a game to get to max level.
7. Death penalty of course!
8. Depth and some random understanding of meaningful choices
9. Throw in insane time sinks.
10 And of course, lobby gaming! Show utter contempt for anything which is instanced and any mechanics which faciliate group formation.
There is a few more arguments but that's usually the gist of it.
Edit: reading some of the posts, I want to make it clear that I don't want people to stop sharing their views, feelings, wants etc. I just think all this discussion which relates to the same thing should be in one place. No need for 5 topics being active at the same time. The only thing that that achieves is flooding the forums. One thread on this is fine. 5 active at one time is ridiculous.
Do you try to force us to like what we don't like or what are you ranting about? this was the most booring thread ever in 5 years, i hope they lock it. You are a delusional person living in a dream world. Do you think if we would have an awesome game we would spend time reading complains?
Comments
No offence is ALWAYS followed by something offensive
No offence = "excuse me but I am going to shit all over you" 
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Nothing works like that. Nothing is given to you simple because you want it. Sometimes you might be lucky and that thing will be available, missy times there are otherreasons abd your desires are irrelevant.
You guys have a strange idea of what "entitlement" means.
Nobody is saying we are entitled to anything. We are not wanting something for FREE or given to us because we deserve it. We (or at least "I" since I'm not wanting to speak for anyone) am saying that these games are not entitled to MY money as they currently are. I am making it clear that I want to PAY for a game that fits my needs and if there isnt one, I will continue to express MY dissatisfaction and will continue to vote with MY wallet by not buying what I consider trash games.
Expressing dissatisfaction with the current state of things and wanting change is NOT entitlement. Its expressing dissatisfaction. It saying "I love(d) this genre and right now there is nothing worth playing for me and noting for me to spend MONEY on. "
I also complain about barak Obamas policies. I (a former Democrat) have expressed to my reps that unless the democratic party changes to a more moderate stance they have lost my vote.This isnt entitlement. This is life.Not to be political but its essentially the same thing.
So we are acting entitled for wanting games we would like to play and spend money on? By that line of thinking everyone is entitled and the word has lost its meaning.
-So...To take this quote of yours
"Many of these posts not only ask the why question but then follow it up with a statement or entitlement belief that there should be a game out there that meets there needs simply because they want it."
Considering this is a hobby and these are GAMES- There is no NEED in any part of this (or any other topic) and we should just close the forum down and quit talking about things that all are wants.
EDIT- Im would alsoadd that the only entitlement I am seeing are from the folks thinking they are entitled to complain about other peoples dissatisfaction.YOU are not entitled to control the conversation on this forum. You are not ENTITLED to have a forum free from complaining. So grow up. Quit acting entitled.
Its your RIGHT to complain. Just as its the other sides right.
At least you are coming at things from a realistic position and not claiming that someone is acting entitled for wanting a game to spend money on while bitching on a FREE FORUM. And not being satisfied with the current generation of what is being produced.
To those who who want to debate against the complainers (like yourself) I say- Awesome. Moast people donot want an echo chamber with only one opinion being allowed. Nobody is entitled to use a free forum and try to hinder dissenting opinions. THOSE people (not you) should either
a) Start paying money to Bill M. so they have a vested interest and a right to have a voice on what discussion is allowed
b) Find a Forum that is an echo chamber and only represents opinions they agree with
c) start their own forum
-Those on the opposing spectrum are not demanding that games be made for FREE to suit their tastes. Entitlement is when you think you are owed something for nothing...Like people trying to control a conversation on a free forum that they are using for free. Acting as if they are owed peace of mind by not hearing other opinions they do not like.
Debate and disagreement is awesome . Especially with people who are acting like adults. There are good points AND dumb points being made on both sides. Some people will never be satisfied. Some people are complaining just to complain (on both sides) and some make good , solid and fair points.
That is entitlement.
Thst id entitlement.
You are incorrect. Saying you DESERVE a game would be an entitled attitude.
Webster defines it as saying you have a RIGHT to something. Nobody is saying that at all except for those thinking they have a RIGHT to not hear complaining. Nobody is wanting special privilege or demanding that they be given special privilege..Except... The other side.
Special snowflakes not wanting to hear complaining on a free forum. Unless its their complaining which evidently is fine.
en·ti·tle·ment
entitlement to fees and maintenance should be offered"
"annual leave entitlement"
"no wonder your kids have a sense of entitlement"
Who feels that way? Who said they deserve anything? Not me.
EDIT- If you can show me a post where someone says they "deserve" a game, (EDIT- OR to go with the Webster definition,that they have a RIGHT to a certain type of game) I would concur. That is stupid. Asking for something and thinking you deserve it,complaining and thinking they HAVE to listen would be an attitude of entitlement.
If the market does not represent me and I complain- This is NOT entitlement. Its feedback and dissatisfaction/.
Forget it. No one is going to utter the word "deserve". What you can see is people who are endlessly complaining why they don't have an AAA game when their niche cannot support an AAA title. Complain and bash the games that don't cater to their niche and their players.
It's a very nasty spiral.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
No, it's called ranting because you are not even attempting to speak to actual parties involved. Game developers website is over there >>>
Many many many times.
I agree 100%. However, its the use of "entitlement" I find insulting.
There are some who are...Crazy. I saw a post the other day where someone said(paraphrase..) "This game is awesome,has every feature I ever wanted, good graphics, runs well,...BUT , its Tab targeting so I wont play"- That imho, is a very stupid reason to not play a game that has everything you want- Still, it isnt entitlement. hes not saying "I have a RIGHT..." but rather, "Change this and I will give you my money"
-Its a dumb opinion , but not an entitled one.
Other (like myself) have a certain type of game we want (not going to rehash my desire) and I would gladly pay whatever the cost is if they can even cater to 50% of my wants... And I will continue to express this. I would pay $50/month for a game I like and it would still save me money. I also play all types of games and know"the perfect game" will never happen.
-Now we have complaining about the complainers who are complaining lol. This too is a never ending cycle.
I would agree with "Ranting" to a degree.
This is an MMORPG forum. This is the place to rant.
Dont like it? Your own forum that you create is over there >>>>>
Until the owners of this site say otherwise, Ranting is permissible. This is private property . there are no "Rights" here. Sothe owners are evidently okay with ranting.
Go start your own forum.
Yes, OP. Now, let us hold hands and sing kumbaya once more. We need but propose the site admins and all them dissenters receive a nice hot spanking.
Kumbaya my lord~
(On a little bit more serious note, it's true that many, myself included, could at times try to articulate and reason their posts better without resorting to insults, generalizations or absolutes, but what can you do. After all, this is a pub where practically anything goes. Of course there are rules for conduct, but I've never seen a thread locked or removed on the basis of insufficient argumentation - or for being simply ridiculous. I'm happy I haven't.)
The point was not to suppress other people's opinion. It was more to stop the flood of identical threads. Having A billion topics on the same matter is pointless and redundant.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
which perhaps explains the broken record nature of this forum on life support
Its your RIGHT to complain. Just as its the other sides right.
At least you are coming at things from a realistic position and not claiming that someone is acting entitled for wanting a game to spend money on while bitching on a FREE FORUM. And not being satisfied with the current generation of what is being produced.
To those who who want to debate against the complainers (like yourself) I say- Awesome. Moast people donot want an echo chamber with only one opinion being allowed. Nobody is entitled to use a free forum and try to hinder dissenting opinions. THOSE people (not you) should either
a) Start paying money to Bill M. so they have a vested interest and a right to have a voice on what discussion is allowed
b) Find a Forum that is an echo chamber and only represents opinions they agree with
c) start their own forum
-Those on the opposing spectrum are not demanding that games be made for FREE to suit their tastes. Entitlement is when you think you are owed something for nothing...Like people trying to control a conversation on a free forum that they are using for free. Acting as if they are owed peace of mind by not hearing other opinions they do not like.
Debate and disagreement is awesome . Especially with people who are acting like adults. There are good points AND dumb points being made on both sides. Some people will never be satisfied. Some people are complaining just to complain (on both sides) and some make good , solid and fair points.
The point was not to suppress other people's opinion. It was more to stop the flood of identical threads. Having A billion topics on the same matter is pointless and redundant.
I agree guys! We need debate around here, discussions even! A free exchange of ideas maybe? If we had that, the forums would not be stagnating at the alarming pace they have been
I have seen a handful of locked posts that are curiousIts your RIGHT to complain. Just as its the other sides right.
At least you are coming at things from a realistic position and not claiming that someone is acting entitled for wanting a game to spend money on while bitching on a FREE FORUM. And not being satisfied with the current generation of what is being produced.
To those who who want to debate against the complainers (like yourself) I say- Awesome. Moast people donot want an echo chamber with only one opinion being allowed. Nobody is entitled to use a free forum and try to hinder dissenting opinions. THOSE people (not you) should either
a) Start paying money to Bill M. so they have a vested interest and a right to have a voice on what discussion is allowed
b) Find a Forum that is an echo chamber and only represents opinions they agree with
c) start their own forum
-Those on the opposing spectrum are not demanding that games be made for FREE to suit their tastes. Entitlement is when you think you are owed something for nothing...Like people trying to control a conversation on a free forum that they are using for free. Acting as if they are owed peace of mind by not hearing other opinions they do not like.
Debate and disagreement is awesome . Especially with people who are acting like adults. There are good points AND dumb points being made on both sides. Some people will never be satisfied. Some people are complaining just to complain (on both sides) and some make good , solid and fair points.
The point was not to suppress other people's opinion. It was more to stop the flood of identical threads. Having A billion topics on the same matter is pointless and redundant.
I keep trying to start conversations here, but they keep banning me. It is very peculiar.I've noticed that as well. I've started several posts of "Hey, let's come up with ideas for [gamemechanic]" and they got nowhere, but when I reworded it to complain about said mechanic, the traffic rolled in.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Unless they're on a machine they can't run an MMO on, they're at work or a place where they aren't allowed to run an MMO, they're here for a different type of entertainment or objective than an MMO offers, or any number of other reasons.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
At this point I'm just here for the /popcorn factor.
The problem with debating game mechanics is it can not go anywhere. Once the debate is over then what? It's not like that game is going to get made or even if it is made, that it will be produced and survive. Everyone on this site (myself included) is an "armchair quarterback", we aren't in the industry and nothing we say will affect it in anyway.
How many years have we all played and pitched ideas in forums to no avail? The one thing I have learned , for better or worse, those in the industry don't care what the masses think of their product. All the feedback I have seen from the industry, back to the fanbase, has been contempt for any and all criticism. So all that's left is bashing them.
Also remember that there will be far more you disagree with other people on than you will ever agree on. Lots of people hated SWG the NGE, but not all those who hated it liked SWG CU or even SWG pre-CU. The reasons someone else hated something may be very different from why you hated it, they may have hated what you liked and vice versa.
Do you try to force us to like what we don't like or what are you ranting about? this was the most booring thread ever in 5 years, i hope they lock it. You are a delusional person living in a dream world. Do you think if we would have an awesome game we would spend time reading complains?