Serious question here. How many video game kickstarters have advertised on gaming sites with paid ads?
I was under the impression that kickstarter was the advertising and gaming sites covered games because of the kickstarter campaign.
This is the first I have seen of this practice and I hope it ends up being the last.
Gaming companies started asking gamers to pay to develop their games, too, at one point. It's still a pretty big thing.
I'm still blown away at the number of people who are so surprised that a gaming COMPANY is advertising for their game. Who knew? A business should care about getting their product out there and being successful; advertising is a big part of that. Crowfall seems to care if they succeed on Kickstarter -- I'm sure they'll care even more once it does.
None of what u advise to do instead would give me the awesome game that invokes nostalgia that i want to play. None of it has in a kickstarter or two here and there famous game industry names attached to it.
Just the release of Divine Divinity
Ok, let's go with Divine Divinity since I think it will allow me to get my opinion accross more easily I think.
It's a game from developer Larian Studios. A developer that has existed for years, they have always had some success, never massive success. They always had to look for investors and publishers.
Now that there is something such as Kickstarter, they no longer have to find an investor, the users are the investors.
That means that all risks are now instead of on them, on the players. If the game failed in the past, Larian Studios was responsible for it, the bank or investor would ask for their money back with interest.
Larian studios said they would have made the game either way, but they went to Kickstarter because hey can develop a game without any financial risk whatsoever, because regardless if the game fails or not, they are in the clear. You who invested money in the Kickstarter project, are not. You gave your money away and didn't get anything in return.
Luckily Divine Divinity worked out, many Kickstarter projects do not.
Maybe money is more valuable to me than to someone else, but as a Kickstarter backer, you are on the losing end of the equation. The backer who has the money has no rights and legal means to defend their investment like a bank, and the project developer has shifted ALL risk onto you.
How did i give my money away and didn't get anything in return ?, i basically pre-ordered the kickstarter game at a discount, by backing the lowest option that gives the actual game, and i basically pre-ordered a collector's edition, by backing up to $200. Backing anything higher is equal to charity, u pre-order a collection's edition u donate the rest of the money, and hang out with the team.
So again personally, i've gotten multiple amounts of my money's worth, for 4 games already. How did i give money away and didn't get anything in return ?
Also how am i on the losing side and financially irresponsible as u mention, if i for instance, avoid eating out for a month, and avoid spending too much money, on stuff everyone wastes money every day, and instead save that money for kickstarter ?
Spending money on dream games, projects i waited for years and years, hobby is a small price, compared to what i get in the end.
Only spending money to get more money, more power, more fame, and absolutely nothing else is a slippery slope and not a fun way to live your life.
It's completely imbalanced, you're supposed to save the majority of your money, but if u don't waste and/or risk small amounts of it relative to your wealth now and then what's the point of it anyway ?
Serious question here. How many video game kickstarters have advertised on gaming sites with paid ads?
I was under the impression that kickstarter was the advertising and gaming sites covered games because of the kickstarter campaign.
This is the first I have seen of this practice and I hope it ends up being the last.
Gaming companies started asking gamers to pay to develop their games, too, at one point. It's still a pretty big thing.
I'm still blown away at the number of people who are so surprised that a gaming COMPANY is advertising for their game. Who knew? A business should care about getting their product out there. Crowfall seems to care if they succeed on Kickstarter, I'm sure they'll care even more once it does.
Note:
none of them are backers. And, for some reason, they want LESS successful campaign.
But then, they all seem to have a big problem with KS to start with.
Serious question here. How many video game kickstarters have advertised on gaming sites with paid ads?
I was under the impression that kickstarter was the advertising and gaming sites covered games because of the kickstarter campaign.
This is the first I have seen of this practice and I hope it ends up being the last.
It looks like a pyramid scheme.
In a pyramid scheme, the goal is to recruit more backers to sustain the cost of the pyramid, and instead of doing something with the money, the pyramid just uses those funds to get more backers.
With the kickstarter game, the money from the backers is used to sustain the advertising, which fuels the kickstarter, most of the money ends up in the hands of the Developers and Kickstarter, some of it goes to the advertisers, none of it goes to the bottom of the pyramid, the large group of backers.
In a pyramid scheme, the goal is to recruit more backers to sustain the cost of the pyramid, and instead of doing something with the money, the pyramid just uses those funds to get more backers.
With the kickstarter game, the money from the backers is used to sustain the advertising, which fuels the kickstarter.
Actual pyramid schemes are called that because they're actually shaped like pyramids with someone at the top selling to people below them, who sell to a broader group, who sell to a broader group. When enough people below you buy into the system, the people at the higher tiers break even or profit. Eventually the system cannot attract new members though, and a very large portion of the low tiers are stuck at a loss.
You can't just take any situation involving risk or investment, sketch out the factors in a pyramid shape, and call it a pyramid scheme. The pyramid shape is not remotely related to the relationships you're trying to convey here.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
In a pyramid scheme, the goal is to recruit more backers to sustain the cost of the pyramid, and instead of doing something with the money, the pyramid just uses those funds to get more backers.
With the kickstarter game, the money from the backers is used to sustain the advertising, which fuels the kickstarter.
The link only reinforces my point that this is a pyramid scheme.
"A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying sale of products"
The developers promise participants services. the money is used to enroll other people into the scheme with advertising for Kickstarter, rather than supplying sale of products.
The link only reinforces my point that this is a pyramid scheme.
"A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying sale of products"
The developers promise participants services. the money is used to enroll other people into the scheme with advertising for Kickstarter, rather than supplying sale of products.
Reading comprehension, please: the key trait of a pyramid scheme that makes it a pyramid scheme is the participants enroll other people. One person enrolls five people, and each of them enroll five people, and with enough people below them, the people at the top make money.
There is only one person enticing others in a kickstarter campaign: the company.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
There is only one person enticing others in a kickstarter campaign: the company.
No, the advertisment on the top of this page fuels the kickstarter. One of many ads that have been all across gaming sites in the last couple of days, all linking to the kickstarter page.
You have many individuals paying money, the company uses that money to buy adds, which entices others to fund the kickstarter, and just like in a pyramid, instead of that money being used to produce and set up a sustainable business, it is used to entice more people to join the pyramid with more advertising.
There is only one person enticing others in a kickstarter campaign: the company.
No, the advertisment on the top of this page fuels the pyramid. One of many ads that have been all across gaming sites in the last couple of days, all linking to the kickstarter page.
You have many individuals paying money, the company uses that money to buy adds, which entices others to fund the kickstarter, and just like in a pyramid, instead of that money being used to produce and set up a sustainable business, it is used to entice more people to join the pyramid with more advertising.
It is a pyramid.
A pyramid scheme involves recruiting others that pay you directly so that you may pay those above you.
Pyramid schemes do not need to involve paying recruiters or paying those above you.
Someone mentioned Scientology, everyone knows it's a pyramid scheme, they have been convicted in France for it. It never involved financial benefits for the participants, it offered spiritual enligthenment, only the very top of the pyramid received money, yet it's still a pyramid scheme.
What a pyramid system does is build up a large base, though money that is funneled from the bottom, and it uses this money to grow the pyramid instead of sustaining a business, that's what this company is doing through Kickstarter.
It's a good thing all these game devs are benevelont creatures that would never advertise day and night like so many tv preachers, promising something fantastic if you will only plant a seed (give them money). The only thing you ever get from a tv preacher is promises and a crappy prayer rag in the mail. This is a totally different situation thank god, I could plant a seed and maybe get a sweet starship or a tavern with my name on it if everything pans out!
No, the advertisment on the top of this page fuels the pyramid. One of many ads that have been all across gaming sites in the last couple of days, all linking to the kickstarter page.
You have many individuals paying money, the company uses that money to buy adds, which entices others to fund the kickstarter, and just like in a pyramid, instead of that money being used to produce and set up a sustainable business, it is used to entice more people to join the pyramid with more advertising.
It is a pyramid.
You are wrong.
The evidence proves it. "In a pyramid scheme, an organization compels individuals to make a payment and join. In exchange, the organization promises its new members a share of the money taken from every additional member that they recruit" (from wikipedia) Pyramid schemes are about members which recruit other members.
What could you possibly hope to gain by ignoring evidence? I'm only trying to educate you with the truth. You're only hurting yourself by remaining ignorant.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Pyramid schemes are about members which recruit other members.
That's what all the gaming sites are who recruit new people to Kickstarter through advertisments are. They're the members.
With money from the bottom of the pyramid, the backers.
As far as the argument, "backers don't benefit financially, so it's not a pyramid scheme". Many sects and religions like scientology are pyramid schemes, and have been convicted for being pyramid schemes, financial gain isn't a requirement, some pyramid schemes use religious enlightenment as incentive, others use blackmail, it doesn't need to be financial.
Pyramid schemes are about members which recruit other members.
That's what all the gaming sites are who recruit new people to Kickstarter through advertisments are. They're the members.
With money from the bottom of the pyramid, the backers.
As far as the argument, "backers don't benefit financially, so it's not a pyramid scheme". Many sects and religions like scientology are pyramid schemes, and have been convicted for being pyramid schemes, financial gain isn't a requirement.
You still don't understand:
Pyramid scheme would mean that you have a recruiter recruiting more recruiters, who in turn recruit more recruiters, who recruit even more recruiters. Crowfall is not a pyramid scheme because those recruited by MMORPG.com are not asked to recruit any more people.
Crowfall might be a scam, and the money could flow exactly as your pyramid described, but it wouldn't be a pyramid scheme.
That decision was based on the organization not being recognized as a religion by that country.
The decision was based on their fraudulent pyramid scheme of selling books to their members. The only thing your link says is that it didn't have legal protection from tax avoidance because it's not regarded as a religion in France, which is true, but that's not why they got convicted.
Anyway, I don't like the way kickstarter does business, and the advertisments are no different from pyramid and other ponzi schemes, I don't want to take up too many posts, that's all I wanted to say.
You don't seem to agree, that's fine, as for me, I'm not using Kickstarter and won't be doing so in the future.
With the lack of accountability involved with kickstarter - ANYTHING could be going on.
Company X might contact their top backers and tell them that they can receive a portion of their donation back, or receive special unadvertised perks in game - for say... often posting on a gaming site about how great X game is going to be.
Definitely not a pyramid scheme by definition, but definitely room for shady deals
It appears I have entered the discussion at it's conclusion.
Advertising = Advertising Whether its for B2P or F2P or B2P+cashshop or Post launch or Preorder or Early Acess or Kickstart funding
In Crowfall's case they have already spent 1mil in preparation for Kickstarter(said in an QA interview). They are asking for funding for developing the core deliverables outlined in their kickstarter plus all the stretch goals. It's not for paying to advertise, they already spent their own money on that.
It appears I have entered the discussion at it's conclusion.Advertising = Advertising Whether its for B2P or F2P or B2P+cashshop or Post launch or Preorder or Early Acess or Kickstart fundingIn Crowfall's case they have already spent 1mil in preparation for Kickstarter(said in an QA interview). They are asking for funding for developing the core deliverables outlined in their kickstarter plus all the stretch goals. It's not for paying to advertise, they already spent their own money on that.
but were they to be lying about that - are they legally accountable?
Originally posted by superstarman22 With the lack of accountability involved with kickstarter - ANYTHING could be going on. Company X might contact their top backers and tell them that they can receive a portion of their donation back, or receive special unadvertised perks in game - for say... often posting on a gaming site about how great X game is going to be.
Originally posted by superstarman22 With the lack of accountability involved with kickstarter - ANYTHING could be going on. Company X might contact their top backers and tell them that they can receive a portion of their donation back, or receive special unadvertised perks in game - for say... often posting on a gaming site about how great X game is going to be.
That's EXACTLY what seems to be going on.
shhhhhh don't tell anyone though it's a (very very veryyyy well hidden) secret!
In the LAST 30 minutes, they seem to have made an astounding $10,000. I bet some kids are going to be turning in their credit cards back to their parents tomorrow.
In the LAST 30 minutes, they seem to have made an astounding $10,000. I bet some kids are going to be turning in their credit cards back to their parents tomorrow.
It could even be possible that some companies might make a few huge donations to the kickstarter (under an alias) right after it opens, to start a sort of feeding frenzy/get the ball rolling. I'm pretty sure the first 20 people in line at the Apple store when the newest white rectangle is released are being paid to stand there.
Comments
Gaming companies started asking gamers to pay to develop their games, too, at one point. It's still a pretty big thing.
I'm still blown away at the number of people who are so surprised that a gaming COMPANY is advertising for their game. Who knew? A business should care about getting their product out there and being successful; advertising is a big part of that. Crowfall seems to care if they succeed on Kickstarter -- I'm sure they'll care even more once it does.
How did i give my money away and didn't get anything in return ?, i basically pre-ordered the kickstarter game at a discount, by backing the lowest option that gives the actual game, and i basically pre-ordered a collector's edition, by backing up to $200. Backing anything higher is equal to charity, u pre-order a collection's edition u donate the rest of the money, and hang out with the team.
So again personally, i've gotten multiple amounts of my money's worth, for 4 games already. How did i give money away and didn't get anything in return ?
Also how am i on the losing side and financially irresponsible as u mention, if i for instance, avoid eating out for a month, and avoid spending too much money, on stuff everyone wastes money every day, and instead save that money for kickstarter ?
Spending money on dream games, projects i waited for years and years, hobby is a small price, compared to what i get in the end.
Only spending money to get more money, more power, more fame, and absolutely nothing else is a slippery slope and not a fun way to live your life.
It's completely imbalanced, you're supposed to save the majority of your money, but if u don't waste and/or risk small amounts of it relative to your wealth now and then what's the point of it anyway ?
Note:
none of them are backers. And, for some reason, they want LESS successful campaign.
But then, they all seem to have a big problem with KS to start with.
It looks like a pyramid scheme.
In a pyramid scheme, the goal is to recruit more backers to sustain the cost of the pyramid, and instead of doing something with the money, the pyramid just uses those funds to get more backers.
With the kickstarter game, the money from the backers is used to sustain the advertising, which fuels the kickstarter, most of the money ends up in the hands of the Developers and Kickstarter, some of it goes to the advertisers, none of it goes to the bottom of the pyramid, the large group of backers.
I made a graph to show.
What a pyramid scheme actually is is detailed here.
Actual pyramid schemes are called that because they're actually shaped like pyramids with someone at the top selling to people below them, who sell to a broader group, who sell to a broader group. When enough people below you buy into the system, the people at the higher tiers break even or profit. Eventually the system cannot attract new members though, and a very large portion of the low tiers are stuck at a loss.
You can't just take any situation involving risk or investment, sketch out the factors in a pyramid shape, and call it a pyramid scheme. The pyramid shape is not remotely related to the relationships you're trying to convey here.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
The link only reinforces my point that this is a pyramid scheme.
"A pyramid scheme is an unsustainable business model that involves promising participants payment or services, primarily for enrolling other people into the scheme, rather than supplying sale of products"
The developers promise participants services. the money is used to enroll other people into the scheme with advertising for Kickstarter, rather than supplying sale of products.
Here advertised is being used to fund more advertised.
Reading comprehension, please: the key trait of a pyramid scheme that makes it a pyramid scheme is the participants enroll other people. One person enrolls five people, and each of them enroll five people, and with enough people below them, the people at the top make money.
There is only one person enticing others in a kickstarter campaign: the company.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
No, the advertisment on the top of this page fuels the kickstarter. One of many ads that have been all across gaming sites in the last couple of days, all linking to the kickstarter page.
You have many individuals paying money, the company uses that money to buy adds, which entices others to fund the kickstarter, and just like in a pyramid, instead of that money being used to produce and set up a sustainable business, it is used to entice more people to join the pyramid with more advertising.
It is a pyramid.
Pyramid schemes do not need to involve paying recruiters or paying those above you.
Someone mentioned Scientology, everyone knows it's a pyramid scheme, they have been convicted in France for it. It never involved financial benefits for the participants, it offered spiritual enligthenment, only the very top of the pyramid received money, yet it's still a pyramid scheme.
What a pyramid system does is build up a large base, though money that is funneled from the bottom, and it uses this money to grow the pyramid instead of sustaining a business, that's what this company is doing through Kickstarter.
You are wrong.
The evidence proves it. "In a pyramid scheme, an organization compels individuals to make a payment and join. In exchange, the organization promises its new members a share of the money taken from every additional member that they recruit" (from wikipedia) Pyramid schemes are about members which recruit other members.
What could you possibly hope to gain by ignoring evidence? I'm only trying to educate you with the truth. You're only hurting yourself by remaining ignorant.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
That's what all the gaming sites are who recruit new people to Kickstarter through advertisments are. They're the members.
With money from the bottom of the pyramid, the backers.
As far as the argument, "backers don't benefit financially, so it's not a pyramid scheme". Many sects and religions like scientology are pyramid schemes, and have been convicted for being pyramid schemes, financial gain isn't a requirement, some pyramid schemes use religious enlightenment as incentive, others use blackmail, it doesn't need to be financial.
You still don't understand:
Pyramid scheme would mean that you have a recruiter recruiting more recruiters, who in turn recruit more recruiters, who recruit even more recruiters. Crowfall is not a pyramid scheme because those recruited by MMORPG.com are not asked to recruit any more people.
Crowfall might be a scam, and the money could flow exactly as your pyramid described, but it wouldn't be a pyramid scheme.
EDIT: I found a picture explaining what is a pyramid scheme: http://survivingaftercollege.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/pyramid-scheme.jpg /EDIT
The decision was based on their fraudulent pyramid scheme of selling books to their members. The only thing your link says is that it didn't have legal protection from tax avoidance because it's not regarded as a religion in France, which is true, but that's not why they got convicted.
Anyway, I don't like the way kickstarter does business, and the advertisments are no different from pyramid and other ponzi schemes, I don't want to take up too many posts, that's all I wanted to say.
You don't seem to agree, that's fine, as for me, I'm not using Kickstarter and won't be doing so in the future.
Company X might contact their top backers and tell them that they can receive a portion of their donation back, or receive special unadvertised perks in game - for say... often posting on a gaming site about how great X game is going to be.
Definitely not a pyramid scheme by definition, but definitely room for shady deals
It appears I have entered the discussion at it's conclusion.
Advertising = Advertising Whether its for B2P or F2P or B2P+cashshop or Post launch or Preorder or Early Acess or Kickstart funding
In Crowfall's case they have already spent 1mil in preparation for Kickstarter(said in an QA interview). They are asking for funding for developing the core deliverables outlined in their kickstarter plus all the stretch goals. It's not for paying to advertise, they already spent their own money on that.
but were they to be lying about that - are they legally accountable?That's EXACTLY what seems to be going on.
That's EXACTLY what seems to be going on.
That is true, but - If they skate away with $30m for delivering vaporware, the only career they have to worry about is golf :P
It could even be possible that some companies might make a few huge donations to the kickstarter (under an alias) right after it opens, to start a sort of feeding frenzy/get the ball rolling. I'm pretty sure the first 20 people in line at the Apple store when the newest white rectangle is released are being paid to stand there.