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[Column] General: 5 Things MMOs Could Learn from Pillars of Eternity
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
Pillars of Eternity is a game that does a lot of things right for not only its genre, but in general. MMOs and other types of games across our industry could learn a thing or two from what Obsidian has delivered to use in 2015. It’s a game that’s equal parts nostalgic and fresh, both approachable and challenging, and above all else, immensely engaging.
Read more of David Jagneaux's The List: 5 Things MMOs Could Learn from Pillars of Eternity.
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2) Make Them Challenging Again
if only one mmorpg do that im playing it
tired of play mmorpg because they are easy, im kinda casual but not brain dead ( like you can be playing the mmorpg we got curently ) and im enjoying a challenge and not only in raid plz !! that never bad to die in a game and honestly im playing most new release since alot of year and in many of them i have gone to max level and die only 2-3 time and some of them ZERO TIME !! ZERO !!
also let player pick their skill, make build ect !!
yeah if they do that im playing again
hell i dont even know why they make them so easy casual player love hard game too... look at this ps4 game who just release or the other one...
that just fun to have challenge, why they removed challenge ??!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"If more MMOs would incorporate at least a couple of the things discussed here, we would be well on our way of having much better games to play. I love MMOs and I love single player games and the more they learn from one another and adapt to improve, the better off all of us gamers will be in the long run."
I think we are finally on the uphill climb. The last year and a half has introduced us to some brave Indie developers who are trying, some with success, which will hopefully revitalize the industry. Perhaps hitting bottom was the best thing that could have happened.
Single player RPGs are mostly about the story. MMOs are mostly about gameplay and interaction...next
Pillars of Eternity is not inherently challenging unless you're playing a gimped build. It creates challenge in the same way mmos creates challenge, raise the numbers...next
Compare the number of npcs in Pillars of Eternity with the number of npcs even a small mmorpg has. Yea...the difference is staggering. You obviously can't make every npc intriguing in an mmo because there's many magnitude more. But that doesn't mean mmos don't have intriguing npcs. Look at Thrall, Deathwing's son, Arthas, there's dozens of great intriguing npcs in WoW..next
Your example of depth with the Chanter is a bad example to use if you want to prop it up and say "Why can't mmos do this?!". That type of skill would never work in an mmorpg because it would simply be used for griefing. That aside, i agree mmo's could stand to get back some of their depth that they've discarded over the years.
Making nostalgia approachable? What? You think Pillars of Eternity is good because its nostalgic? No, it's good because it's a good game. This is the problem with people who use the N-word in a desiring manner. Nostalgia does not make games good, it is simply a feeling, a sort of mix of emotions that makes one feel good and reminiscent.
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Thanks for this article I agree with all of it! Lastly what happened to the good depth of lore in mmos? POE has this in spades and with diversity at that (Borian Dwarves = Eskimos, Vailians = Black Venetians - which really did exist, ie: Alessandro Medicci) instead there has been a major effort to whitewash worlds, dumb down the lore and write terribly shallow stories.
What is happening in the industry?
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
Single player RPGs strongest point has always been the story/lore because thats the main point of playing them.
MMOs strongest point has always been about interactive gameplay systems within the game itself and others in the game with you.
This has not changed recently, it has always been this way.
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I have to agree with most of what you say there. Want a good story, play a single-player RPG. Want interaction, play a MMO. But in the past (a decade ago and more), even MMOs had a pretty decent story. It's been only lately that the story has become less important for MMOs and insta-gratification and PvP more important.
Strong, assertive generalizations. You must be correct.
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Back to David's article: I agree. Less watery homogenization and more deep, intelligent gameplay.
Wouldn't it be good to have both
Never said MMOs had bad stories, just that it wasn't their strongest point. There simply will never be an mmo with a better story than the best(subjective, i know) single player RPG's story. Just like a Car will never be more green-efficient(couldn't think of a better way to put it) than say riding a bike.
Glad you agree. /s
Next time, prove me wrong. You will never find the best story-wise MMO with a better story than the best story-wise single player RPG. There's another strong, assertive generalization for you. I am correct.
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There's no need to prove someone wrong when their entire point is a subjective one. I find the overall story in TOR to be a better story than many RPG series have offered, look at FO3 as an example horribly cliched story, same could be said about Skyrim even though the game is great, the story is overly cliche.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Again, i never said MMOs couldn't have good stories. I said Single Player rpgs main focus is always on the story/lore and an MMOs main focus is always on gameplay and interaction with others.
I then went on to say you will never find an MMO with a better story than THE BEST single player RPG.
I never said you won't find an MMO with a better story than a single player RPG.
Point me to what part of that is subjective.
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A true mmo with true rpg. Yes please, no chains
Quality of story is a subjective point in and of itself.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Doesn't change the fact you will never find an mmo with a better story than the best single player rpg.
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You are speaking in absolutes, about every game out there. That by definition makes you wrong. However, I'm not here to indulge your narcissism, or belabor your need to dominate this thread with your absurd assertions.
Show me one instance where i'm wrong and i'll change my absolutes. Until then i'll continue to do so.
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The story is the story, presentation is something else entirely. Hence the problem with approaching the topic in any form of absolute best. You can offer great story telling in an MMO environment, you can offer it in any form really. WIll MMO's suffer from bloat in this regard? IE quantity over quantity? Maybe... But this is about the Story, not the filler that fills out a game. The best story is subjective as subjective gets. It's in the eye of the beholder.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think it has been proved time and time again that the masses aren't interested in difficult MMOs, let alone difficult games.
Dark Souls isn't a difficult game before anyone pops up.
Waiting for:
The Repopulation
Albion Online
Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.
I think the combat is the most offputting aspect of this game, its clunky, its tedious and the micromanagement is not fun for everyone.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
And the entire point players who like specific games have been YELLING for years that they do NOT want a game made for the masses. That waters down concepts.
When players ask for a specific game designed for a narrow genre they are completely happy to get a well designed game that attracts the 100-250k players that share the same mindset when it comes to it's development.
The MASSES are NOT wanted.
You stay sassy!
QFMFT
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Actually, not really at all.
A Niche by definition is just a subsection of the market. If the Single Player RPG market is 20 million people, PC gamers are a niche of that and players wanting group based round based combat for CRPG is definitely a niche. Just Google it, too lazy to do your research for you.
But more practically when the developers sit down in front of the money men and they say "We think we'll sell 250K units", the money men say "Oh, it's a niche game."
Farmville and it's 50 million (or whatever) players is a niche game.