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XP camps in Pantheon
Curt2013
Member UncommonPosts: 66
From the limited amount of information I have seen it doesn't look likely that they go in, but if they did would you do some grouping at some of these camps as an alternative to say dungeon runs or questing?
I for one think it would be great fun to explore some desert region to stumble upon a camp of Deathfirst Citadel Orcs in the middle of no where or w/e but only if it wasn't the main way to level a toon.
Or is this type of thing that's just to old and out dated for a game like Panthon.
If you feel your part of the designated niche group they are targeting isn't that for us?
Thanks for you Thoughts
Comments
I have asked it as a question for the Roundtable discussions (Camp vs Crawl) type dungeon (Think EQ vs WoW). I know I and many other supporters of Pantheon want camp style dungeons and many want a healthy mixture of both - so let's hope so... at this time, I'm just waiting and watching - there's many questions from the previous thread that still will be answered (I hope) on future Roundtables. Once a new roundtable has been announced, another round of questions will be taken.
Here's the link to the Roundtable thread over on the Pantheonrotf site. Most likely you will have to be logged in/a member of the site to follow the link though:
https://www.pantheonrotf.com/forums/topic/1564/round-table-discussion-questions
*Edit. Reread your post and saw that I missed your point a bit. But, I do want outdoor style camps like EQ as well such as Kobold/Bandit/Orc camps. It wouldn't be a bad question to pose still on the next Roundtable.
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
Played Vanguard and loved it, One of my favorite things to do was camp out in sod with a solid group on 5 dots / named.
Pantheon could have a mixture of that type of gameplay to go along with the epic dungeons that were available at all levels. And the
camps could be made more immersive im sure as well then sod.
Exciting Suff!!
We are going to address this question in more detail in an upcoming Round Table, but I want to officially set the record straight:
Pantheon will primarily be a camp-based game, both overland and dungeon, very similar to what you remember from EverQuest 1.
There will be a handful of meaningful exceptions, but overall we are choosing to embrace camping for all the right reasons. That being said, you can expect us to spice things up a bit - you never know what we might have up our sleeves to keep you on your toes
Creative Director, Lead Game Designer | Visionary Realms, Inc.
Visit the official website of Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen at www.pantheonmmo.com!
That is awesome to hear! Loved camps with rare mobs and rare spawns
I don't typically post on forums but I have been browsing for years. I am a longtime fan of Everquest and Vanguard because the type of experience those games delivered. If this in fact true I will be pledging towards development. I have played everything out there to end game but the only games that have any real replay value, are camp styled games.
Hail the guild known as Pain!
Might be the best update I've seen you release so far - thanks Joppa
This is going to be awesome( what Joppa said ), really great news. With peeps who have never had an experience like this before its really a nice change from linear questing to level up. I'ts personal preference I know, but questing with absolutely no challenge puts me to sleep. At least with xp camps / dungeon crawl's they can be challenging, and you can bet will be.
I can really see this being a big hit compared to whats out now. There hasn't been anything like it in so long (besides eq wich alot of gamers were to young to get into) so i can see this taking off in a big way possibly.
Glad to see yall changed your viewpoint. Next up Right of Passage.
Sitting around for hours on end grind mobs isn't mind numbing at all. May as well be playing a Korean game if this is the case.
Will we be able to pull one mob at a time like in EQ, which was very fun and exciting, as you from time to time pulled a whole camp accidently when you were not careful enough?
I really dislike what they did in other games (including EQ2) with chained feets, so when you pulled one mob, automatically the whole camp came after you and your group. I really hope all mobs can be pulled one at a time, so you can carefully pick your target (challange) and successfully pull just him, as we could in EQ. 
Yes, instead, let's run through the same instanced dungeon every 20-25 minutes on repeat.
... as they do in WoW more or less (maybe takes slightly longer time there).
I rather prefer it takes quite long time to go through a dungeon and I want us not be able to go through a whole dungeon unless you are really high level, because the level range in the dungeon should be wide (like level 6 to 50). So you have a reason to come back to the dungeon and beat the mob which you feared so much before. It's the challange which creates memories.
People seem to be missing the point of an open world mmo. Heading out to kill things is designed as viable content. What makes it a grind is bad game development. It doesn't have to be. Mobs can be made smarter and xp awarded depending on difficulty if the designers bothered to make a good game.
There are far too many players who have become use to modern mmos that have all but made open world meaningless. It doesn't have to be easy and certainly can be rewarding. New games seem to be about "get to the dungeon and level!" ... and those dungeons are short with often a single path to end, kill boss, profit. Yay?
Open world can have mobs camps that defend themselves, have lookouts and call upon allies to assist against any size of intruder. It can easily be done but why hasn't it? Because their game engines sucked and can't handle the load so they divide their game up into instanced chunks. Players are so accustomed to this that they completely lack the imagination required to think of how it could be done differently.
These devs have some serious work ahead of them. Large open world games designed to KEEP players in that open world are rare these days. Progression has been stripped from it. In order to get players back into the open many technical and game design changes must take place. I certainly hope Unity 5 can handle it. Mob AI will need improvement. Mob camps may need to be able to move or setup elsewhere once it is cleared to reflect reality and solve camping problems. This is all for one main purpose: to make the game feel alive and real even if in a fantasy setting. That is the entire point of a game like this. It is their driving goal.
When a developer decides they want to make a game strictly based on concept with no plans to alter it, they will have to solve the issues most developers have skipped entirely over by re-engineering they games into instanced lobby games with questing as a means to divide the populace. It all starts by not thinking of mob grinding as a negative occurrence but as an opportunity to create a game enhancing experience. It is a curious anomaly in mmo gaming that large worlds are created in order to emulate a realistic fantasy setting allowing players to explore vast distances yet players are funneled into instanced areas or quest hubs designed to split the population up and eliminate choice in order to level effectively.
I have no idea what success will come out of this game but I hope the devs have balls and stick with their plan. Previous developers obviously didn't and caved against each problem discovered in the past. Instead of resolving these issues in order to maintain the original game vision they bypassed them entirely by abandoning or corrupting their vision. Worse still, games began to be created to avoid these issues entirely. I even see players complaining about developers going back instead of forward. I submit that devs failed to move forward to begin with. They abandoned nearly every conceptual idea they once attempted to tackle. They now must go back in time to resolve what has never been resolved in order to make the games they once wanted to make.
Good on them ... but with a budget a fraction of what big developers failed to do with far more, Pantheon has a rough road ahead.
You stay sassy!
A shaman runs past your camp, a half dozen mobs in tow, shouting "Snares are for wussies."
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Some really good points, I wouldn't expect them to pull off some of what your suggesting but if they do huge bonus. Also if they don't to me at least I think it will be more enjoyable then doing the go to quest hub pick up 3-6 quests by myself rinse and repeat.
Just guessing here but I would be willing to bet that most of the peeps apposed to the type of gameplay have never tried it out. If I'm wrong on that I just cant wrap my head around the fact that questing similar to games like wow or rift is more enjoyable then hanging out at a camp or even a dungeon crawl. Speaking of Rift imo it was more enjoyable to grind out actually rifts then there quest hubs.
WOOHOO
So excited for this game! Thank you guys
I agree with you - sarcasm doesn't come through to well in text.
I would imagine, by not having thousands of quests/hubs, even though it's a small team, more time can be dedicated to other more meaningful gameplay elements rather than creating pages of text for each quest that no one reads, clicks accept, and moves on to the next wall of text.
I am hoping for few, more meaningful quests, widely distributed through the world.
I am also hoping those quests are marginal sources of XP at best, being primarily tied to equipment, factions, and lore.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
Writing and programming thousands of quests takes a lot of time and resources.
Sure, it's "content" but is it good content?
I don't think so.
If you were to analyze the time players spend in game, the activities they perform, and extend that timeline well past the point players reach whatever "cap" you place on their progression, you'll almost always find the vast majority of their playtime goes into activities that are designed from the get go to be repeatable.
It isn't rocket science.
One and done content takes forever and a day to write and code, and the ratio of "time spent creating" vs. "time spent playing" is way, way off.
Now a really well designed dungeon, or PvP battleground, etc. might take 100x times as long to create as a single quest, but you'll get 1000x times the play time out of it...
So instead of making 100 quests, make 1 good dungeon instead and increase your create to play ratio ten fold.
Systems based game play, which leads to emergent game play, has the potential to create infinite play time.
If you can make the systems behind "camping mobs for XP" engaging and fun, you can create ample variety and nearly endless play time. It's why people play 100's of hours on the same 8-10 maps in an FPS game, or thousands of hours on the SAME map in a MOBA.
Make the core gameplay systems solid, add a bit of variety (location, objectives etc.) and your content consumption will not have a ceiling.
That's where you miss the point. Most quests have faceroll ez mobs with the occasional hard boss. EQ camps had much harder mobs, ones you need a full group just to take down unnamed mobs (assuming in area with same lvl/higher lvl mobs-which was case to get higher xp). And you couldn't control the area with add on mobs or bad pulls threat to wipe group, random wandering named mobs, other groups trying to pull similar mobs, death penalties, dangerous travel, trains, mobs running when low hp and bringing back help, etc. Was much more exciting and fun (IMO), than easy quests with no group teamwork, no unknown/random challenges, no risk, etc.
I'm not saying EQ was perfect. There was plenty of annoying, time-wasting parts, but those have mostly been eliminated in modern mmos. It seems you are purposely making camping seem worse to make a point about your preference in gaming.