If he would've said that six years ago, I'd be impressed. But this is the equivalent of predicting rain in the middle of a monsoon.
and some here thought that virtual world MMO is still the future of gaming. Now would that be equivalent of thinking they are in a drought in the middle of your monsoon?
Smed is clueless as usual.. All he is doing is saying what his bosses want to hear and believe.. If Columbus Nova went off the deep end and wanted to bring back "PONG", Smed would quickly discuss how old school gaming from the Nitendo era is great , blah blah blah.. AND, what the hell is WoW style? Does he mean linear themepark from A to Z.. or does he mean end game instance grinding? I swear the man just says shit to keep his name in the press..
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Actually virtually all the so called wow clones have been profitable in the long term. It was the short term where they were not profitable.
Profitable in that they were eventually able to pay off investors, but by then half their playerbase was gone and they were struggling to pull numbers and a level of profitability that Everquest had at the turn of the century.
If he would've said that six years ago, I'd be impressed. But this is the equivalent of predicting rain in the middle of a monsoon.
and some here thought that virtual world MMO is still the future of gaming. Now would that be equivalent of thinking they are in a drought in the middle of your monsoon?
No, that would be more like the inventors of television thinking it would bring a future of enlightened entertainment and instead we get reality TV, Dancing with the Stars, and nicknames for it like idiot box and the boob tube.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The huge segment of gamers that so-called mmorpgs are targeting these days are the 15 minutes attention span players, so in that sense he is absolutely correct. As is Blizzard with their YetAnotherCard game and YetAnotherArena/Moba game.
Where he and well many others in the mmorpg industri are wrong, is not considering that gamers are more specialized in taste now, they know what they like and they play the type of games suiting them. That means you must decide what kind of game you are making, and which gamer seqment to reach.
There is still a market for Themepark mmorpgs (wow,gw2,eso..), there is a market for Hardcore PvP sandbox (Darkfall, EVE), there is a market for Fantasy world/lore based games, untapped for now (oldschool mmorpgs, upcomming pantheon), there is a market for non violent sandbox builder games (minecraft, landmark), and so on.
What all complaints on this site for the last 10 years has been about, is that this and that game aren't fitting "my" gamer seqment, "I" thought it was going to be a mmorpg by my definition, but then it weren't. Developers who make games for their target audience will have a better chance of success.
That said, Smedley sits on a huge pile of bad decisions and bull build up over 20 years, so don't take his word for anything but advertising their games. Itdoes raise concerns about what kind of game EqNext will be, or if it even has a future.. but hardly any news there I guess.
Honestly I look forward to our genre returning to the geeky roots we started with. I never had more fun than before MMORPG's became mainstream. Back when 200k was living high on the hog, because our niche market was just that small.
Saga of Lucimia is just yet another indy dev team trying to return us to our roots. While the game doesn't appeal to the vast majority of the current MMORPG market, that's ok! I'd rather see 200 mmorpgs that all cater to small niche audiences, and do what they do extremely well, than have 10-20 AAA mmo's trying to appeal to the mass market.
Who really takes this seriously. He says the Days of WoW-style MMOs are over, and in literally the same line says online gaming is about conforming to a more casual model, ie. the model that WoW popularized. Not sure if serious.
Originally posted by Dullahan Who really takes this seriously. He says the Days of WoW-style MMOs are over, and in literally the same line says online gaming is about conforming to a more casual model, ie. the model that WoW popularized. Not sure if serious.
Basically he's the guy in charge of a failing company with some serious problems ahead of him, he's got to do something after all to explain away this singular lack of success, after all, his company has made a point of chasing after the WoW demographic and failing, consistently.
Originally posted by Dullahan Who really takes this seriously. He says the Days of WoW-style MMOs are over, and in literally the same line says online gaming is about conforming to a more casual model, ie. the model that WoW popularized. Not sure if serious.
Basically he's the guy in charge of a failing company with some serious problems ahead of him, he's got to do something after all to explain away this singular lack of success, after all, his company has made a point of chasing after the WoW demographic and failing, consistently.
I think more than anyone else Smedley should have felt the sting of WoW because Everquest released before WoW and against WoW came up mightily short. EQ 2 was in direct competition with WoW .
You all speak with hindsight and having 20/20 vision but if you were developing a game after WoW's success why would you not try to make a game like that. Which company would not want to ride that gravy train ? It does not make any sense when you're speaking to your investors from whom you're trying to get money to say "Oh yeah WoW is doing well but we're thinking of trying another model ,yes it may not be as successful as WoW."" Try pitching that to your money source and see how far you get.
Yes his company made it a point of chasing the WoW demograph . Which responsible president would not chase after that demograph. You all criticize him and other developers only because you're aware of the current results of that model. I doubt they knew that at the time. Why are so many MOBAs being developed now? Trends are not a bad way to run a business in fact that is how many companies make their money because they spend less trying to make the public aware of what they are selling by riding the coattails and advertisement of other more successful models. It's business.
Clearly with all of his experience in the MMOSphere, he knows better than us.
I don't believe he's doing anything more than stating his opinion, based on launching a couple of failed WoW clones himself as well as the failure of every single WoW clone that has ever been released.
I agree - the genre has to evolve to whatever the next step is.
Players want MMO game where they can play 45 minutes a day. or 45 minutes per year and still be equally powerfull with a chance to win like everyone else. People do not have time to play all day and night. Not the new genereations not the ones after that. People want speed, people want everything right off the start, People want to win.
Originally posted by Vutar This is why EQnext will be a failure. When the guy at the top makes statements like this, it is clear he has no idea what is going on. Saying people only want to play games for 45 minutes is one of the stupidest things I have heard in a long time.
-.- I want to play 45 minutes a day ..... Kids want 45 minutes a day. People who work all the time want 45 minutes a day. Everyone i know wants 45 minutes a day. The real people outside of your community want 45 minutes to play.
Originally posted by Xxerox Players want MMO game where they can play 45 minutes a day. or 45 minutes per year and still be equally powerfull with a chance to win like everyone else. People do not have time to play all day and night. Not the new genereations not the ones after that. People want speed, people want everything right off the start, People want to win.
I blame PvP and competition. Everyone wants to be the top of the leader boards, top guild, highest rating, have the flashy gear to show off. MMO's are no longer about doing your own thing and finding fun...they are now about comparing yourself to others and being better.
Originally posted by Vutar This is why EQnext will be a failure. When the guy at the top makes statements like this, it is clear he has no idea what is going on. Saying people only want to play games for 45 minutes is one of the stupidest things I have heard in a long time.
-.- I want to play 45 minutes a day ..... Kids want 45 minutes a day. People who work all the time want 45 minutes a day. Everyone i know wants 45 minutes a day. The real people outside of your community want 45 minutes to play.
It is the most truthfull thing i have ever heard.
I would probably change it to most people want to feel like they accomplish something if they play 45 minutes a day. You might play more, but I would think most people want to look back and say they did something to progress in those 45 minutes.
Originally posted by Vutar This is why EQnext will be a failure. When the guy at the top makes statements like this, it is clear he has no idea what is going on. Saying people only want to play games for 45 minutes is one of the stupidest things I have heard in a long time.
-.- I want to play 45 minutes a day ..... Kids want 45 minutes a day. People who work all the time want 45 minutes a day. Everyone i know wants 45 minutes a day. The real people outside of your community want 45 minutes to play.
It is the most truthfull thing i have ever heard.
I would probably change it to most people want to feel like they accomplish something if they play 45 minutes a day. You might play more, but I would think most people want to look back and say they did something to progress in those 45 minutes.
The only problem with that is that the core population will consume that content in days instead of months (currently) and not years (as it was and still should be).
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire: Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Originally posted by Vutar This is why EQnext will be a failure. When the guy at the top makes statements like this, it is clear he has no idea what is going on. Saying people only want to play games for 45 minutes is one of the stupidest things I have heard in a long time.
-.- I want to play 45 minutes a day ..... Kids want 45 minutes a day. People who work all the time want 45 minutes a day. Everyone i know wants 45 minutes a day. The real people outside of your community want 45 minutes to play.
It is the most truthfull thing i have ever heard.
I would probably change it to most people want to feel like they accomplish something if they play 45 minutes a day. You might play more, but I would think most people want to look back and say they did something to progress in those 45 minutes.
The only problem with that is that the core population will consume that content in days instead of months (currently) and not years (as it was and still should be).
I think the most importance in games people enjoy lately is that there is no Endgame. the games never end, and thats why people enjoy them more and are willing to play them for 45 minutes. Because it would not matter if they play more or less.
Originally posted by Vutar This is why EQnext will be a failure. When the guy at the top makes statements like this, it is clear he has no idea what is going on. Saying people only want to play games for 45 minutes is one of the stupidest things I have heard in a long time.
-.- I want to play 45 minutes a day ..... Kids want 45 minutes a day. People who work all the time want 45 minutes a day. Everyone i know wants 45 minutes a day. The real people outside of your community want 45 minutes to play.
It is the most truthfull thing i have ever heard.
I would probably change it to most people want to feel like they accomplish something if they play 45 minutes a day. You might play more, but I would think most people want to look back and say they did something to progress in those 45 minutes.
The only problem with that is that the core population will consume that content in days instead of months (currently) and not years (as it was and still should be).
Accomplishment can be simple stat change, item enchancement, new shiney...does not have to be completion of quests or raids or etc.
Originally posted by Vutar This is why EQnext will be a failure. When the guy at the top makes statements like this, it is clear he has no idea what is going on. Saying people only want to play games for 45 minutes is one of the stupidest things I have heard in a long time.
-.- I want to play 45 minutes a day ..... Kids want 45 minutes a day. People who work all the time want 45 minutes a day. Everyone i know wants 45 minutes a day. The real people outside of your community want 45 minutes to play.
It is the most truthfull thing i have ever heard.
So basically, because you aren't a gamer, everyone should be like you. Got it, just needed to make sure the world revolved around you.
Who say's i am not gamer? I want to play 45 minutes. Doesnt mean i do it. I play for 10 hours stright every time i log in a game. You definetly do not know people, or what they are really interested in....
Originally posted by amoiy I do not think so. WoW-style MMO created many good time and memory for gamers. It is meaningful for our generation.
Well Your Generation is not the only one around here.
I believe MMO's must have a sense of progression. Maybe not the WoW style of progression that repeats itself over and over.
But maybe the Dynamic World (or Sandbox) progression is what people want now. If I play for a long duration or short duration I want to set my mark on the world. Playing during a world event and able to defeat the evil Orcs in say 30 mins, and then call it a day. But knowing my group and myself has changed that bit of the world.
Of course I hope to learn new skills(classes) and maybe obtain nice looking cosmetic gear to distinguish myself a bit from others.
Thats my hope for EQ Next.
You know when you play too much MMO's when your partners pants have become a rare drop.
Originally posted by Vutar This is why EQnext will be a failure. When the guy at the top makes statements like this, it is clear he has no idea what is going on. Saying people only want to play games for 45 minutes is one of the stupidest things I have heard in a long time.
-.- I want to play 45 minutes a day ..... Kids want 45 minutes a day. People who work all the time want 45 minutes a day. Everyone i know wants 45 minutes a day. The real people outside of your community want 45 minutes to play.
It is the most truthfull thing i have ever heard.
I would probably change it to most people want to feel like they accomplish something if they play 45 minutes a day. You might play more, but I would think most people want to look back and say they did something to progress in those 45 minutes.
The only problem with that is that the core population will consume that content in days instead of months (currently) and not years (as it was and still should be).
I think the most importance in games people enjoy lately is that there is no Endgame. the games never end, and thats why people enjoy them more and are willing to play them for 45 minutes. Because it would not matter if they play more or less.
There's a lot of truth in this statement. Look at some of the most popular games being played right now and we'll see that they are games that focus little on endgame and more on moment to moment gameplay. Hell, right now the top three games that are being watched on Twitch are LoL, DotA2 and Hearthstone. What people are watching could be a good trending mechanic on what people are playing or wanting to play.
You can get in a good match for a MOBA within about 45 min. You can probably get in 2-3 games of Hearthstone in 45 min as well. Those are types of games that are being played for pure enjoyment and not because of some progression mechanic, since each new game is a complete reset. The only thing that is persistent in those games is individual learning (and skill), and the cards in your deck for HS.
If you look at your average mmo including the most current WoW xpack, a good majority of the new content is consumed within a month or two before you hit the repetitive stages. At which point you can go back on a new character and repeat the same content, or obtain any small amount of progression on your current main character in the form of gear upgrades. Everything else is more or less repetitive content. In your typical mmo in 45 minutes worth of play you're going to accomplish getting your dailies done and that's about it. Whereas in other genres you can complete and entire match or two in the same amount of time frame and feel like you've actually accomplished something since you reached some type of an end state.
This is where we are seeing the biggest apparent shift in gaming market. People seemingly want to feel like they can accomplish something while they are playing, and not just making small moves towards an overall goal. People also are seemingly wanting a more off-the-rails approach to their games, which is why Minecraft, DayZ, H1Z1, 7 Days to Die, etc are so popular. Those games, the fun is literally what you make of it.
I feel like we're going to come back full circle in the near future and probably start the cycle over in many regards. With each iteration of the cycle bringing in old ideas with new tech for a better delivery method.
Originally posted by Vutar This is why EQnext will be a failure. When the guy at the top makes statements like this, it is clear he has no idea what is going on. Saying people only want to play games for 45 minutes is one of the stupidest things I have heard in a long time.
I'm not saying EQN is going to succeed, but would you be less concerned if he said something like: "The day of the WoW-Styled MMO has still only just begun?" The WoW model really only worked for WoW - anyone who tried to clone it had mostly failures with only a handful of noteworthy standouts that were profitable.
The fact he acknowledges the WoW model is going the way of the dodo is an acknowledgement industry experts would have been glad to have seen back in 2008. It would have spared us all the string of inane, cash-grab WoW clones that came out, game after game.
Comments
EQ Next is/was supposed to be a sandbox, so I would say no.
and some here thought that virtual world MMO is still the future of gaming. Now would that be equivalent of thinking they are in a drought in the middle of your monsoon?
No, it really isn't tbh.
Profitable in that they were eventually able to pay off investors, but by then half their playerbase was gone and they were struggling to pull numbers and a level of profitability that Everquest had at the turn of the century.
Grats.
No, that would be more like the inventors of television thinking it would bring a future of enlightened entertainment and instead we get reality TV, Dancing with the Stars, and nicknames for it like idiot box and the boob tube.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
He is right and he is wrong.
The huge segment of gamers that so-called mmorpgs are targeting these days are the 15 minutes attention span players, so in that sense he is absolutely correct. As is Blizzard with their YetAnotherCard game and YetAnotherArena/Moba game.
Where he and well many others in the mmorpg industri are wrong, is not considering that gamers are more specialized in taste now, they know what they like and they play the type of games suiting them. That means you must decide what kind of game you are making, and which gamer seqment to reach.
There is still a market for Themepark mmorpgs (wow,gw2,eso..), there is a market for Hardcore PvP sandbox (Darkfall, EVE), there is a market for Fantasy world/lore based games, untapped for now (oldschool mmorpgs, upcomming pantheon), there is a market for non violent sandbox builder games (minecraft, landmark), and so on.
What all complaints on this site for the last 10 years has been about, is that this and that game aren't fitting "my" gamer seqment, "I" thought it was going to be a mmorpg by my definition, but then it weren't. Developers who make games for their target audience will have a better chance of success.
That said, Smedley sits on a huge pile of bad decisions and bull build up over 20 years, so don't take his word for anything but advertising their games. Itdoes raise concerns about what kind of game EqNext will be, or if it even has a future.. but hardly any news there I guess.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
Problem with those numbers is getting investment cash to add the features people want in the games.
Basically he's the guy in charge of a failing company with some serious problems ahead of him, he's got to do something after all to explain away this singular lack of success, after all, his company has made a point of chasing after the WoW demographic and failing, consistently.
I think more than anyone else Smedley should have felt the sting of WoW because Everquest released before WoW and against WoW came up mightily short. EQ 2 was in direct competition with WoW .
You all speak with hindsight and having 20/20 vision but if you were developing a game after WoW's success why would you not try to make a game like that. Which company would not want to ride that gravy train ? It does not make any sense when you're speaking to your investors from whom you're trying to get money to say "Oh yeah WoW is doing well but we're thinking of trying another model ,yes it may not be as successful as WoW."" Try pitching that to your money source and see how far you get.
Yes his company made it a point of chasing the WoW demograph . Which responsible president would not chase after that demograph. You all criticize him and other developers only because you're aware of the current results of that model. I doubt they knew that at the time. Why are so many MOBAs being developed now? Trends are not a bad way to run a business in fact that is how many companies make their money because they spend less trying to make the public aware of what they are selling by riding the coattails and advertisement of other more successful models. It's business.
I don't believe he's doing anything more than stating his opinion, based on launching a couple of failed WoW clones himself as well as the failure of every single WoW clone that has ever been released.
I agree - the genre has to evolve to whatever the next step is.
-.- I want to play 45 minutes a day ..... Kids want 45 minutes a day. People who work all the time want 45 minutes a day. Everyone i know wants 45 minutes a day. The real people outside of your community want 45 minutes to play.
It is the most truthfull thing i have ever heard.
I blame PvP and competition. Everyone wants to be the top of the leader boards, top guild, highest rating, have the flashy gear to show off. MMO's are no longer about doing your own thing and finding fun...they are now about comparing yourself to others and being better.
I would probably change it to most people want to feel like they accomplish something if they play 45 minutes a day. You might play more, but I would think most people want to look back and say they did something to progress in those 45 minutes.
The only problem with that is that the core population will consume that content in days instead of months (currently) and not years (as it was and still should be).
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
I think the most importance in games people enjoy lately is that there is no Endgame. the games never end, and thats why people enjoy them more and are willing to play them for 45 minutes. Because it would not matter if they play more or less.
Accomplishment can be simple stat change, item enchancement, new shiney...does not have to be completion of quests or raids or etc.
Who say's i am not gamer? I want to play 45 minutes. Doesnt mean i do it. I play for 10 hours stright every time i log in a game. You definetly do not know people, or what they are really interested in....
Well Your Generation is not the only one around here.I believe MMO's must have a sense of progression. Maybe not the WoW style of progression that repeats itself over and over.
But maybe the Dynamic World (or Sandbox) progression is what people want now. If I play for a long duration or short duration I want to set my mark on the world. Playing during a world event and able to defeat the evil Orcs in say 30 mins, and then call it a day. But knowing my group and myself has changed that bit of the world.
Of course I hope to learn new skills(classes) and maybe obtain nice looking cosmetic gear to distinguish myself a bit from others.
Thats my hope for EQ Next.
You know when you play too much MMO's when your partners pants have become a rare drop.
There's a lot of truth in this statement. Look at some of the most popular games being played right now and we'll see that they are games that focus little on endgame and more on moment to moment gameplay. Hell, right now the top three games that are being watched on Twitch are LoL, DotA2 and Hearthstone. What people are watching could be a good trending mechanic on what people are playing or wanting to play.
You can get in a good match for a MOBA within about 45 min. You can probably get in 2-3 games of Hearthstone in 45 min as well. Those are types of games that are being played for pure enjoyment and not because of some progression mechanic, since each new game is a complete reset. The only thing that is persistent in those games is individual learning (and skill), and the cards in your deck for HS.
If you look at your average mmo including the most current WoW xpack, a good majority of the new content is consumed within a month or two before you hit the repetitive stages. At which point you can go back on a new character and repeat the same content, or obtain any small amount of progression on your current main character in the form of gear upgrades. Everything else is more or less repetitive content. In your typical mmo in 45 minutes worth of play you're going to accomplish getting your dailies done and that's about it. Whereas in other genres you can complete and entire match or two in the same amount of time frame and feel like you've actually accomplished something since you reached some type of an end state.
This is where we are seeing the biggest apparent shift in gaming market. People seemingly want to feel like they can accomplish something while they are playing, and not just making small moves towards an overall goal. People also are seemingly wanting a more off-the-rails approach to their games, which is why Minecraft, DayZ, H1Z1, 7 Days to Die, etc are so popular. Those games, the fun is literally what you make of it.
I feel like we're going to come back full circle in the near future and probably start the cycle over in many regards. With each iteration of the cycle bringing in old ideas with new tech for a better delivery method.
I'm not saying EQN is going to succeed, but would you be less concerned if he said something like: "The day of the WoW-Styled MMO has still only just begun?" The WoW model really only worked for WoW - anyone who tried to clone it had mostly failures with only a handful of noteworthy standouts that were profitable.
The fact he acknowledges the WoW model is going the way of the dodo is an acknowledgement industry experts would have been glad to have seen back in 2008. It would have spared us all the string of inane, cash-grab WoW clones that came out, game after game.