Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
[Column] General: The Debate Over Pay to Win
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
The way we pay for games is the hot topic yet again in the blogosphere. Is “pay to win” a bad thing for MMOs, or should we just accept it as the future of the industry?
Read more of Jessica Cook's Tales from the Neighborhood: The Debate Over Pay to Win.
)
Comments
Fixed it for you.
Pay2win is just bad mechanics in any kind of game with a PvP part and horrible in something going for the E-sport market.
It is slightly better with PvE games but it is still bad and turn away many potential players.
Paying for things that makes the game easier without upsetting the balance is fine (unless the game have a subscription of kind), extra bankslots, fluff and similar stuff is good enough to get your income from, every game do need to get in cash after all.
Looking at Open-Source, CSGO/DOTA/Unreal Engine 4, the modding community.
No, I disagree completely with P2W when a more valid and integer monetization method can be applied involving both player and developer.
Sway all day, butterfly flaps all the way!
Or leave.
Sway all day, butterfly flaps all the way!
The definition of 'Pay to win' is different for every player. Not all games can be successful with DOTA's super-cosmetic-only cash shop. I could care less about fluff and I never gave that game a dime.
Archeage is an obvious offender with their labor system and P2W cash shop. That game burned me badly.
A good balance gives free players a very good, playable game while offering premium subscribers a modest boost in some areas. There's nothing wrong with getting a slight percentage increase in XP and gold drops and other convenience niceties like extra storage space and travel convenience. As long as the free players remain competitive in all game areas and keep server populations strong, I'm good.
I'm in the same boat.
I have much more money than time. Time is precious.... so why would I want to waste it playing a shitty P2W game.
If a game is worth playing it doesn't need to be P2W to make money.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Exactafrigginmundo!
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Agreed.
But I call that F2P/P2P without P2W cash shop xD... Yeah I guess your initial sentence is right haha
AKA Paying for more content (because you loved the standalone F2P) =/ paying for making content go faster.
Sway all day, butterfly flaps all the way!
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Now, which one of you will adorn me today?
Says who? I never play MMOs for the end-game. It's all about journey for me.
Sorry, hun, that didn't need to be fixed. I think you've forgotten the old adage, "The House always wins.". That remains to be the case in F2P and P2W games. The customer, no matter how big their wallet is or how deeply addicted to their (intentional) gambling design, is never the winner.
I don't either, but that doesn't change the fact that Themeparks focus on getting players to cap as quickly as possible as opposed to their sandbox counterpart that doesn't penalize you for not being max level.
In a sandbox seeing a max level player is generally a rarity. In a Themepark if you aren't max level after your first couple of days then you're a noob.
Now, which one of you will adorn me today?
I don't mind if the game implents F2P methods to acquire all said "conveniences" but if not then it is Pay to Win. Seeing how you can pay over a user for something he can't acquire.
So far i've only found Firefall does this, you can acquire all items with ingame currency or "capped with time". (Fair)
Anyone know any other MMO that do this?
Sway all day, butterfly flaps all the way!
To powergamers and those rushing to max level, yes I could see how they could refer to someone who takes their time as a 'noob'. I suspect that you are one of those players.
However, I think this whole emphasis on end-game (fueled by that same group), is cause for the decline in quality to the whole leveling process.
The problem isn't "does P2W harm games" because that's actually been well established mutliple times (like for instance the sheer lack of rewards for most players in games like GW2 and the shift from the RMTAH on Diablo III when they lost so many players because of the problems that come with gear purchasing in games that don't have enough content so the only thing they have to enjoy is the gear grind if you can enjoy such a thing I cannot) The problem is now, what constitutes a P2W.
P2W Imo is progression that's tied directly to real money. So it doesn't matter if you CAN grind to get what you want, it doesn't matter if you CAN play the game to get what you want, if your design involved paying real money at any time for in game progression then you are damaging your game. I especially despise games that have currency conversion because people often get duped into thinking that there's nothing wrong with that model when it's even more incidious then direct gear or enchantment purchases from the shop.
These articles will not help the PC mmo community. The PC MMO market is in decline directly due to the P2W models and the problem of so many who are duped because of hype to not remember the lessons of the past that this industry has already explored multiple times but seems to be repeating.
You're right, I am a powergamer but I still don't rush to cap. Before they started making MMOs easy I had only ever had 1 or 2 max players across every game I had played up until that point. I think you're being too subjective in your opinion. Themeparks get you in and out like a fast food restaurant, just admit it. It's not the way the group plays, it's the way the developers design their game. Themeparks usually have 70%+ content locked behind the level cap...it's not like people are rushing to cap for no reason they just want to experience the rest of the game.
Now, which one of you will adorn me today?
Or not even play the game at all given it's reputation. Look at ArcheAge, or even Runes of Magic for that matter. Some people view them with contempt and disgust and will never load them up to spend money in the Cash Shops.
Other people just like to play online games that give them the opportunity to let everyone know, graphically or with in-game ability, just how much disposable cash they have. It's the real life equivalent to the people that like to drive Ferrari's, or have a closet full of Sak's Fifth clothing, expect cheesier, with thinly veneered pixel awesomeness. Look at the people that have already raised their hands saying, "Look at me! I have money! I'm one of those 3%!". Except, they aren't buying a Ferrari, or a haute-couture handbag, rather a $80 flying horse with flames shooting out its arse that let's them one-shot dragons. Perception and insecurity make an interesting cocktail.
I must admit that cracked me up more then it should have.
One assflame horse please! xD
Sway all day, butterfly flaps all the way!
Fixed it for you too!
I wish publishers would learn from lot of examples. Last that it comes to mind is Tera. Just look the difference in the server population between EU and NA. EU servers are practically empty meanwhile NA is bustling with people.
Only temporary greed and shortsightedness can make a publisher to treat customers in this way.
I guess it depends on the point of view in which you are viewing it. I agree with you but only as far as gambling establishments go. There is a different dynamic at play in video games. Gambling establishments do not lose customers in the long run utilizing this business practice. Video games do. Customers paying the money will win and have fun being the top dog as long as the player base is active. Once it is not they will simply move along to another game where they will again spend money to win the game. In their mind, they will always be winners. The video game company, however, may make some money in the short term, but in the long term ... they will loose! P2W cash shops are short term money grabs. They are never winners in the long term.
Oh, and for all of you who are claiming you have more money than time so you would rather pay to achieve, the game is meant to be "played" to achieve not "pay" to achieve. There is a significant difference. I can never respect a player who needs to pay for what others have had to work for. Having no time is just an excuse for the lazy. If you have no time to do something the obvious solution is to not even begin doing it. In other words, don't start what you can't finish.
Genuine "hard-coded" P2W is rare these days.
Most developers have realised that all they need to do is make the grind for items slightly longer than the average player will endure. The average player doesn't "stay" for more than 6-8 weeks in most MMO's, so by requiring them to grind for 8 weeks to get certain things for "free" means they'll either never have them or just pay for the instant gratification. Extra bag space or a fancy mount is of no use to anyone when they've already grown tired of playing the game.
Most people swipe that card when they just can't be bothered to grind that extra week. Besides, there's all these other players who've already had that stuff since the first week after launch, because they just bought it straight away.