Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Every Dev Team Should have an Economist
Nitan66
Member UncommonPosts: 16
One of the fundamental principles of economics is that people respond to incentive. This is an obvious concept, and yet often times I feel that Dev teams add in features and changes to their games without analyzing the consequences.
Being able to manipulate the wants and needs of players becomes more important in sand box games especially. Although the devs and the player base do not want strict rules and instructions about what players can and cannot do, it is important that behavior that enriches gameplay for the individual and the community is rewarded.
Why should I raid if the gear I earn is taken by a griefer in the next ten minutes? (FFA PVP)
Why should I be a crafter if the gear I make is replaceable at the next level?
Why should I invest in player housing if the house is on the other side of the map and adds no benefit to the rest of my gameplay?
All of these are issues we have seen in one game or another, and each deals with incentive. I believe a dedicated individual with a background in economics would help not only in the design of each system, but more importantly in their integration with one another.
What are your opinions? Waste of money or not?
Comments
This ---^
MMO devs started bringing them on the team back in 2007. It's now, as Dullahan said, common for one to be onhand, even if just as a consultant.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
FFA PvP. Because you want to become skilled at PvP and want to be the best geared possible so you can hybrid. Otherwise because you rekt someone in BIS gear with your not so BIS gear and are better then that guy LOLOL
Why should I raid for gear when some griefer come crash me?
Because its the best you can craft for your level at that moment, I like being self-sufficient.
I don't understand housing either.
I don't buy it that you need millions of players to make DOTA/LOL/UnrealEngine 4 monetization work. That works because people are greedy and it's not nearly as hard as people make it out to be to make a hat.
Instead developers are greedy and that shit just don't fly with a lot of people looking at the market nowadays.
Yeah they should hire an integer and smart economist.
Sway all day, butterfly flaps all the way!
waste of money. Just don't let people interacts as much, and you won't have griefing and stuff like that.
And games are selling fun. In fact, it probably makes more sense to have psychologists rather than economists.
Think you hit some interesting points (1,2,3)
Though I don't really think you need an economist to realize that. but more that it might need some input from a economist aswell a full team of different expertise in different fields.
^Yep.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
You have become the epitome of a broken record. You harp on all the people "beating a dead horse" when they talk about old school games and community driven content yet you come over here and do the same thing pushing your little agenda. You sir, are a hypocrite.
I would love to see what a psychologist would have to say about you if they ever got a chance to have a sit down. As for the other comment about the Sociologist by the other poster, well that would be a complete waste according to you since social interaction is the bane of fun and should be clearly stricken from these boards.
I just had an idea! Maybe we could rename "social interaction" to MMORPG because you know, that term's meaning is being broadened to include everything.
Anyways, I gotta go. Stomach is not feeling so good. I think I gotta go take an MMORPG on my toilet.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
Dev teams hire advisers with an economy background. What these economist lack, however, is a good understanding of how MMORPGs work and the psychology of players making up that community. That is, IMHO, the lacking component.
Lol..... just what I want.....
A shrink in my game
There has been a lot of boneheaded advice from both professions.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Why do you feel that way?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Economists are not needed and except in a few cases they wouldn't bring much to the table for game devs trying to make good games. I say this being someone who majored in economics.
What is really needed is devs with an open mind willing to listen to others and willing to put themselves in the shoes of the gamers playing their game. Any reasonably smart gamer can point out quite clearly in good detail the flaws in the incentives models of many games. Getting the devs to actually listen and make those changes is a different matter.
Those reasonably smart gamers would always have contradictory advice based on their own personal bias... as would economists.
Decision makers typically only act on advice from people they trust that points them in the direction they are already leaning. And those same advisers will be scapegoated when the shit hits the fan to be replaced by the next set of advisers... welcome to management 101.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The 1980's
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I disagree. Players don't complete objectives in games because it's a rational solution, they do it much more because it's an emotional solution. Someone with expertise on how to get people hooked into a game is much better for designing incentives than someone who tries to make playing the game a rational solution.
EDIT: Ofc if there's big enough budged then also an economist looking into things would be a good. I just don't think it's that important outside of games with complex virtual economies /EDIT
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Yup likely important.
What is WAY more important? Having an A.I. expert AND a sociologist. No real mmorpg will be created with economy alone. It is the human management element that is more important and is what is all but abandoned in modern mmos. An mmo must have the proper tools for community building, management and even can be injected into A.I. control to make it more realistic.
You stay sassy!
It's a good thing that game's economy wasn't your job. I mean, the botters would build a shrine in your name - you'd be their hero.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Eh, a lot of people are just randomly jumping to the conclusion that games have economists. Why?
Don't have time to look up a lot of evidence, but the ESO credits here seem to support my assumptions (as someone who has long worked on non-MMORPGs.) Basically in games I've worked on it's a combination of systems designers or product managers who work on the game economy, rather than a specialist whose only job is economy. So my assumption was that MMORPGs probably aren't much different (and ESO's credits are at least one piece of evidence supporting that.)
Working through the questions/answers:
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Trust me, they wouldn't. The combine time wouldn't be instant to 2 minutes for starters.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Either economists or people with related degrees. Is this like the skill cap thread where we're going to get all obtuse and literal about this?
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
So your design approach would be to build the economy around vendoring crafted items? To be clear, I'm not saying it's a good, bad or otherwise idea right now, just wondering what approach you are considering that would support what you're advocating.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre