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Pay2Win - discussing it is a bannable offense.
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It is very interesting reading your post, but you are factually incorrect on a number of points, and the biggest one is that you can "never" catch up.
Here is the deal. Credits can only be used for certain specific kinds of progression(provinces/temples/adepts, and upgrading weapons/shields/rings).
Upgrades have a max level of 20. Provinces have a max level of 8. Assuming that they ONLY need credits, they can buy credits to max out their provinces and their upgrades sooner, they will hit the max level on them and then never progress and you will eventually catch up. Fortunately for you, they don't JUST need credits. For the provinces/temples/etc they need holy objects and holy texts. They can buy some on the market, but only as much as other people sell (marketplace is handled like a consignment system) and the price will scale based on availability. So they are gated by what OTHER people are willing to give up. Same thing for upgrading their gear. You need upgrade stones and there are a finite number of them available, and to get more you need to farm gear and break it down... and the marketplace does not sell gear that can be broken down for upgrade stones...
Ok, so you can't instantly upgrade your temples/provinces or your gear... But you can still upgrade it faster! Yeah, and so what? You can get EVERYTHING they get as a f2p player, it will just take you a bit longer. That is the tradeoff of f2p, time vs. money. How is that different from xp boosts or lvl 90 boost in WoW? I don't hear you talking about how that is P2W... The system is P2Fast, and even that is debatable given that upgrades require items that are limited supply...
Yeah, no P2W as far as I am concerned...
Exactly people are panicking for no reason.
I really recommend for you to read this guide to get yourself more familiarized with the monetization in the game
http://www.excessum-gaming.com/forum/m/10248673/viewthread/22820506-skyforge-monetization-explained
And about credits that you can buy over the cap, yes you can, but you really dont need it for anything else than Pantheon/Guild upgrades. Developers need to make money from somewhere.
But to be honest i would never buy credits, conversion rate is pretty high and i really dont need them as you will have more than enough as you progress. You cant trade money or items with players so there are no gold sellers. Economy will be reasonably stable. Why would you use credits for when 90% of the stuff on market you cant even buy for credits but instead a special farmable tokens or argents (for costumes)
And if you look on the market this is least intrusive F2P game yet, so i recommend all whiners should stop complaining and get a job. Nothing is really free in life.
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Back on topic I was just looking into this game and I am glad I read this thread, I played allods and liked it but gods awful cash shop IMO and looks like this game is going the same route sadly.
Might give it a spin on the 16th but not going to buy that 20$ founders thing after reading this.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Actually, I think Path of Exile is less intrusive. ;p
Can you give us three or four F2P MMOs where you can pay to have everything?
Trying to get a better point of reference on this statement of yours.
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OP I really doubt you know what pay 2 win is. Your knowledge of the game is also lacking at best. Can you turn Ardents into credits allowing you to progress faster. Yes, a minor part of your characters growth can be progressed that way. But that very progress comes at a cost. As you are gimping yourself. Skyforge breaks up just about everything into the game into a Prestige bracket. Yes PvE and PvP. So going ahead and pump up your prestige using ardents, but you will find the road rougher then someone that levels naturally. Because you will lack the Talents and Abilities to keep your character alive. Because there exist no way to purchase skills or talents. The only way to get them is by earning sparks which you CAN NOT do with credits, ardents, or cash. Just try to do anything rated at your current prestige level without the talents and abilities. You will either A) have to be carried or
start grinding out sparks with a severely ill equipped character.
A character leveled naturally will always outclass one that uses credits/ardents to boost their character via Temple/Chapel upgrades, slot upgrading. The only place your P2W comment might have any validity is in the Pantheon Wars.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
As long as you can have reasonable progress while playing it actually for free, i don't care what they offer in the shop.
Reasonable progress is obviously subjective, but generally it means levelling etc. shouldn't be slowed to a crawl compared to other games, you should have access to *most* content, the content shouldn't be distributed like swiss cheese (I'm looking at you DDO), and of course you should have access to the same level of equipment. So you can sell some cool skins or even the whole weapon as long as you can acquire it reasonably without buying it.
If you get more for less, like it seems with Skyforge ($7.50 for money that doesn't count against the cap vs. limitations on subscribers) that's actually good. I know many here still believe a subscription is somehow automatically superior, no matter the game or the devs behind it and no matter how much you actually play and pay, but for me, less money spent is still less money spent.
The cash shop is no different from any other - "real" - shop, so if you can't resist the cash shop, it's not the cash shops fault, but yours. If it's not fun when not paying, but it's not fun enough to pay - well, it was a good time while it lasted.
Not that they should care, they got enough other players, many who pay. But not that i should care, got enough other games, many for which i don't have to pay (that much) to have fun.
Like with any investment, you have to try your best to figure out if it's worth it, and if you're not sure, it's probably better to walk away from it.
I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore
This game has been yet another game proving to me that I shouldn't bother listening to people wailing on various forums. The game is a lot of fun, the cash shop is in no way intrusive, I've not been spammed with any BUY CURRENCY NOW ads, etc...
From what I have seen, the only thing being a premium member really gets you is the ability to reach the weekly caps faster, which some would argue is actually a bad thing. Everything can be earned easily in game (so far).
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I think people have been lowering the bar as to what constitutes p2w. There's certainly a pay to advance faster component but I really don't see anything wrong with that. I suspect the biggest complainers are young people without much money and/or jaded older gamers, also possibly with no money. They expect to be able to have access to everything instantly, just like paying customers. Paying money should offer some sort of benefit but it has to be balanced and measured to avoid true p2w.
Most of the f2p type games I play like World of Tanks, Marvel Heroes, SWTOR and TERA offer good options to advance and enjoy the game. I see nothing in Skyforge that indicates it's p2w. For me, the business model seems fair. For others, maybe not. Different strokes I guess.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
If "pay to win" now extends to convenience a.k.a. "pay so that playing 20h a week is still enough to be at the same level as a 60h a week player", then yes, it is P2W.
Also, 100% of items available with cash-credits (argents) are available with credits.
So...errr...yeah. Can you use in-game credits to progress? Yes.
Can you therefore use Argents to progress? Yes
Playing the SAME amount of time AND spending $$ means you're further ahead? Yes
If you want to be Nr.1 in Prestige, you need to spend $$$. But...why would you care? PvP is based on Prestige brackets...so you'll never fight against Mr.Nr.1 who spent $1000...
Lazy leaches are the ones that consider paying for convenience P2W.
'leach' as defined in the urban dictionary http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=leach
Actually the ones that dont think this game is P2W are the young generation of players used to this crap and dont know better.
If you can buy yourself to progress at 300% faster rate then normal subscribers, thats pay to win.
What newer generation f2p players seems to think is that P2W is only items that only can be bought in item shop, which is wrong.
Just becouse you CAN get to the same place by grinding your eyes out for months for free, does not make it less P2W.
You still won the race for first max level, first server kills, first to get achievements, first to get rare pets and rare costumes, first max level crafter etc, just by paying.
Theres no skill invovled, and devalues any effort of the players actually playing the game.
Those things are impornant to massive part of the older mmorpg community.
In Skyforge it will take you over a year to get to max level temples, wheras you can pay for it in a couple of weeks with real life cash.
You will never catch up, the developers will see to that by adding new content to pay for.
I wish same policy applied here
P2W topics are nothing more than trolling.
Is this whole discussion based on conjecture?
I can't seem to figure out how buying "Credits" in this game give you infinite power...skill ranking relies on these nodes that are activated with not credits. What is the P2W argument? You can bypass these "caps" by paying some cash to get some ingame money that can't purchase much anyway?
[mod edit]
First of all u DONT NEED to pay anything at all
2nd of all u can subscribe to get 50% more credits and 50% more sparks etc which DOES NOT give u advantage how? because this game requires multiple people later on.
3rd there is nothing in this game that has P2W elements and dont say people are a young generation u idiot.
i have lived since we had no internet and i was born the day we got Personal Computers aka PC.
this is far from P2W
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