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Guild Wars 2 did something right

24

Comments

  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,759

    Yes DE is a great idea with great potential to make mmorpg worlds come alive. It was a nice first attempt in gw2 it did add something, although when you played awhile the mechanics become very obvious and after awhile it is just another kill 10 rats system. There is huge potential in DE systems to help create true living breathing worlds, but it needs more work, fresh ideas, more randomness, and some clever way to create it without a huge development overhead.

    For me gw2 is too deeply invested in the themepark formula (themed scripted stories to consume with little freedom) to ever offer a real world feeling, and it is a shame too because they have some of the basic components for that.. Beatiful world, good lore, evolving story, dynamic event system. Everything else is done bad for my taste, point system for gear, poor coop and virtually role less, content scaling, boring combat, insta travel, zero rng or moments of excitement, no consequence.

    Anyways, that is my taste, but as for DE to evolve from its current state in gw2 it needs to be done in a new game with more freedom, and I really hope some other game will pick up the torch. EqNext hinted of something similar, but at the moment it looks unlikely to happen. But how to break out of the themepark formula, offer pve freedom, avoid becomming pvp centric, and combine this with dynamic events, and STILL have mass appeal (because such a game will undoubtly be costly to de elop) ?

  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,860

    Well this genre is always about "immersion", and although GW2 system is far from perfect, it gives future developers something to think about. If nothing else, you have to appreciate the effort that ANet has put into developing this title.

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081

    My take on GW2 :

    It's a fun and alive game, but the Dynamic Events make it a solo game where you don't need anyone.  It's just another game that has you run left to right or top to bottom of your screen to progress.  If you were to split the meaning of mmorpg into categories, GW2 would be in the "solo with people around you" group.

    I personally don't like the weapon swap to change abilities, and you basically run out of change around level 20.

    Graphics are nice, it's well coded, PvP is nice,  Best of all its Buy-to-play.

     

    I find it's a game to comeback to when you run out of others. HOWEVER after you play every class to 20, you don't even have that.

     

     

    What GW2 did right :

    -  Good solid engine and coding

    -  Graphics

    -  BTP

  • ghorgosghorgos Member UncommonPosts: 191
    Originally posted by MisterZebub

    Rift did the same thing with, well, Rifts.

    While being way more trivial i think Rifts had a much better potential because it wasn't the same event in a 10min timeloop.

    Just rift didn't go far enough with the impact of Rifts and Invasion and the build up once they established a foothold.

     

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977

    GW2 gives the best impression of living/dynamic world to date.

    Oh yeah, people expecting to have AI creating content on the fly were dissapointed, but then, GW2 is better off without those.

    ANet delivered exactly what it said it would, those imagining something else - next time dont let your imagination run wild, i know its fun but it isnt real.

  • MalaboogaMalabooga Member UncommonPosts: 2,977
    Originally posted by ghorgos
    Originally posted by MisterZebub

    Rift did the same thing with, well, Rifts.

    While being way more trivial i think Rifts had a much better potential because it wasn't the same event in a 10min timeloop.

    Just rift didn't go far enough with the impact of Rifts and Invasion and the build up once they established a foothold.

     

    Rifts are static quests on a timer, and invasions were exactly same every time. Ona timer. Rifts/invasions are distant retarded cousin of GW2 events. Hell, even ESO has something like rifts. Its just a static quest with monsters spawning on longer timer, nothing else.

    Its like saying Model T is same as Tesla. With one difference that in this case Model T and Tesla released at similar time and not over century apart.

    They went too far with invasions and had to make considerable changes to it because at first it wouldnt revert on its own and if you stumbled upon invaded zone and not enough players, gg/quit for the day.

  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,860
    Originally posted by delete5230

    My take on GW2 :

    It's a fun and alive game, but the Dynamic Events make it a solo game where you don't need anyone.  It's just another game that has you run left to right or top to bottom of your screen to progress.  If you were to split the meaning of mmorpg into categories, GW2 would be in the " solo with people around you " group.

    I personally don't like the weapon swap to change abilities, and you basically run out of change around level 20.

    Graphics are nice, it's well coded, PvP is nice,  Best of all its Buy-to-play.

     

    I find it's a game to comeback to when you run out of others. HOWEVER after you play every class you don't even have that.

     

     

    What GW2 did right :

    -  Good solid engine and coding

    -  Graphics

    -  BTP

    Honestly most of the games out right now you don't "need" anyone to progress. If you want company just ask around. 

    If you can break away from the traditional way of having to clear out a zone, and just try exploring, GW2 is the best. The stigma was set years ago that you need to complete a quest chain to receive the best gear at the end of the chain. So of course everyone tries clearing out an area before advancing anywhere else. You don't have to run left to right top to bottom unless you really feel the need. /shrug

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • MaurgrimMaurgrim Member RarePosts: 1,327
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    I almost fell over with laughter because the OP did not see the obvious in his statement.

    They did things right.......ooook  i understand that part.

    "Things happen even if your not there"  falls out of chair lol.

    You know i don't even need to buy the game to have those things happen ,i can not be there and not spend a dime doing it.

    Also there is no better movie than seeing the movie i have not seen ....:P

    The best food i could ever eat is the food i cannot be there to taste :P

     

     I think you catch the drift?

    BTW i feel sad that soooo many people have not seen through the smokescreen,Arena Net built their entire game around one premise>>>to support f2p and for no other reason.

    I have no idea what you rambling on about.

  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,386
    I loved GW 2 as a casual game to play and I enjoyed it quite a bit. The DE was fun if there were people around. When I last played month and months ago I was playing at an unusually lull period where most zones were empty so I did not enjoy myself as much as I would have had there been more people. It is a great looking game and definitely improved the questing format and so did Warhammer with their public quest and Rift.
    Garrus Signature
  • Gaia_HunterGaia_Hunter Member UncommonPosts: 3,066
    Originally posted by MisterZebub
     

    Honestly I found GW2's way of doing things great the first couple of times. And then after helping some farm hands fight off the same exact invasion of bandits, or kill a troll, or some harpies, or centaurs, for about the tenth time I realized the world was just as stale and static as every "on rails" game I've ever played. Everything just resets, nothing ever actually changes. My participation in the grand scheme of things amounted to exactly fuck all.

    It is not realistic at this time to believe one single person will change the landscape of a MMORPG world in a permanent fashion.

    The difference between a quest "kill 10 orcs because they are raiding the farm" and a DE "kill centaurs because they are raiding the farm" is that in the DE you see the centaurs set fire to the farm, kidnap farmers, etc, and when it is done there are no more centaurs doing that (for 5 minutes or 10 minutes). In the other one the orcs are standing around and they will be standing around when you done.

    You aren't supposed to keep doing the same event over and over or keep playing in the same zone.

    Where the DE failed so far is to promote an end game which, where players would push against AI and Ai would push back against players.

    Orr had a tiny bit of that but something like Silverwastes has it much more fleshed out.

    Hopefully HoT builds and improves upon that.

    Currently playing: GW2
    Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders

  • LudwikLudwik Member UncommonPosts: 407
    GW2's core game was sensational especially the PvE. The first 3 months are still the best experience I've ever had in gaming of any genre.

    I loved the questing, the dungeons, the combat, it was all just awesome. But the one thing that has become clear over the last 3 years is that it must take forever to program.

    I wish they understood that the reason the triple head wurm, aetherblade path, and new fractals flopped was because they required a level of coordination most players just aren't willing to give to a game. It's not that the content was bad, it was really, really good especially the combat mechanics. They were just asking too much of players for what is consider a casual friendly MMO.
  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Member UncommonPosts: 1,636
    Originally posted by hallucigenocide
    Originally posted by azurrei
    I disagree - is the GW2 DE system better than "go kill 10 rats?" Sure.  Is it innovative and "questing" done right? No.  After you do a DE once, you have done it 100 times - I think someone said it is more a a repeatable quest and that is exactly what it is...all sugar coated by calling it "Dynamic."  If you want story that is actually good and engaging ...go play FF14 - the main Main Story Quest line and even some of the side quests are awesome - the game is not without it's bad fetch/kill x quests (it has plenty) but the story and meaning to the main quest line is leaps and bounds better than any of the garbage I have wasted my time on in GW2.  I don't get that whole GW universe - GW1 must have been really good because GW2 is pretty awful on many levels (story/lore presentation being #1).  Its rabid fan base (much like a certain computer company with a fruit for its logo) somehow hypes it up enough to sustainable levels of new player churn to keep it afloat.

    uhh really? FFXIV has horrible questing and the story is sleep inducing.. nothing "awesome" about it at all.

    GW2 atleast tries to do questing in a different way. these days most people dislike the traditional way of questing so when someone tries to change it i think they deserve some recognition.

    Can you provide your Character name and Server in XIV, please? For you to have such a strong opinion of the game, and its story, I'm assuming you have at least one level 60.

    Also, how much did you follow it? Did you actually read the dialog and follow the cut-scenes, or did you just skip through it all?

  • dllddlld Member UncommonPosts: 615

    Well, everquest next appears to be picking up where GW2 left of in that department.

    HoT also seems to be expanding on the event system significantly instead of just being single short reset looped events that populate the majority of the current GW2 world.

    I'm sure I've seen some of the  'indie' kickstarter games sporting similar dynamic content to a degree. PFO with escalations? Crowfall with encroaching end of the world? 

    I think I've said the same thing multiple times but perhaps with different wording. GW2 took a decently big step in the right direction when it comes to making MMO worlds come to life, but it didn't fully make it there hopefully with HoT and future expacks/patches it may get even closer but I don't think the design/engine of the game allows for at least my 'vision' of what a truly alive mmo (within somewhat realistic boundaries of todays technology) would be.

  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,100
    Originally posted by Pratt2112
    Originally posted by hallucigenocide
    Originally posted by azurrei
    I disagree - is the GW2 DE system better than "go kill 10 rats?" Sure.  Is it innovative and "questing" done right? No.  After you do a DE once, you have done it 100 times - I think someone said it is more a a repeatable quest and that is exactly what it is...all sugar coated by calling it "Dynamic."  If you want story that is actually good and engaging ...go play FF14 - the main Main Story Quest line and even some of the side quests are awesome - the game is not without it's bad fetch/kill x quests (it has plenty) but the story and meaning to the main quest line is leaps and bounds better than any of the garbage I have wasted my time on in GW2.  I don't get that whole GW universe - GW1 must have been really good because GW2 is pretty awful on many levels (story/lore presentation being #1).  Its rabid fan base (much like a certain computer company with a fruit for its logo) somehow hypes it up enough to sustainable levels of new player churn to keep it afloat.

    uhh really? FFXIV has horrible questing and the story is sleep inducing.. nothing "awesome" about it at all.

    GW2 atleast tries to do questing in a different way. these days most people dislike the traditional way of questing so when someone tries to change it i think they deserve some recognition.

    Can you provide your Character name and Server in XIV, please? For you to have such a strong opinion of the game, and its story, I'm assuming you have at least one level 60.

    Also, how much did you follow it? Did you actually read the dialog and follow the cut-scenes, or did you just skip through it all?

    Its OK for people to bash GW2 and claim its is only kept afloat by its "rabid" fanbase, but be ready with your ID card and credentials if any of you dare speak ill of FF14ARR! 

    ....
  • moravamorava Member UncommonPosts: 31
    Yup, GW2 did something right ... whole game.
  • hallucigenocidehallucigenocide Member RarePosts: 1,015
    Originally posted by Pratt2112
    Originally posted by hallucigenocide
    Originally posted by azurrei
    I disagree - is the GW2 DE system better than "go kill 10 rats?" Sure.  Is it innovative and "questing" done right? No.  After you do a DE once, you have done it 100 times - I think someone said it is more a a repeatable quest and that is exactly what it is...all sugar coated by calling it "Dynamic."  If you want story that is actually good and engaging ...go play FF14 - the main Main Story Quest line and even some of the side quests are awesome - the game is not without it's bad fetch/kill x quests (it has plenty) but the story and meaning to the main quest line is leaps and bounds better than any of the garbage I have wasted my time on in GW2.  I don't get that whole GW universe - GW1 must have been really good because GW2 is pretty awful on many levels (story/lore presentation being #1).  Its rabid fan base (much like a certain computer company with a fruit for its logo) somehow hypes it up enough to sustainable levels of new player churn to keep it afloat.

    uhh really? FFXIV has horrible questing and the story is sleep inducing.. nothing "awesome" about it at all.

    GW2 atleast tries to do questing in a different way. these days most people dislike the traditional way of questing so when someone tries to change it i think they deserve some recognition.

    Can you provide your Character name and Server in XIV, please? For you to have such a strong opinion of the game, and its story, I'm assuming you have at least one level 60.

    Also, how much did you follow it? Did you actually read the dialog and follow the cut-scenes, or did you just skip through it all?

    you really think i'd buy the expansion for a game i dont enjoy? 

    man i dont remember either character name or server name it's been over a year since i played it.. i did actually play through the game though since people insisted on it getting better later on.. but all i can remember from the story was talking to some crystal.. and i think there was some kind of demon alien dude at the end.

    I had fun once, it was terrible.

  • sagewisdomsagewisdom Member UncommonPosts: 87
    Originally posted by YashaX
    Originally posted by Pratt2112
    Originally posted by hallucigenocide
    Originally posted by azurrei
    I disagree - is the GW2 DE system better than "go kill 10 rats?" Sure.  Is it innovative and "questing" done right? No.  After you do a DE once, you have done it 100 times - I think someone said it is more a a repeatable quest and that is exactly what it is...all sugar coated by calling it "Dynamic."  If you want story that is actually good and engaging ...go play FF14 - the main Main Story Quest line and even some of the side quests are awesome - the game is not without it's bad fetch/kill x quests (it has plenty) but the story and meaning to the main quest line is leaps and bounds better than any of the garbage I have wasted my time on in GW2.  I don't get that whole GW universe - GW1 must have been really good because GW2 is pretty awful on many levels (story/lore presentation being #1).  Its rabid fan base (much like a certain computer company with a fruit for its logo) somehow hypes it up enough to sustainable levels of new player churn to keep it afloat.

    uhh really? FFXIV has horrible questing and the story is sleep inducing.. nothing "awesome" about it at all.

    GW2 atleast tries to do questing in a different way. these days most people dislike the traditional way of questing so when someone tries to change it i think they deserve some recognition.

    Can you provide your Character name and Server in XIV, please? For you to have such a strong opinion of the game, and its story, I'm assuming you have at least one level 60.

    Also, how much did you follow it? Did you actually read the dialog and follow the cut-scenes, or did you just skip through it all?

    Its OK for people to bash GW2 and claim its is only kept afloat by its "rabid" fanbase, but be ready with your ID card and credentials if any of you dare speak ill of FF14ARR! 

    That's because most bash the whole game based on the first zone and don't experience anything. Most are also too stupid to follow the main storyline, getting caught up in side quests - even though one is called the main scenario and you are told you have to do the main scenario to progress - to realize that you have like three main quests in the city at the start: go talk to person at start, go talk to advenerturer's guild to go around city, get job outside city. The very next quest is a big boss battle.

    You have people whining about this and saying the whole game is awful or the story is awful, but what have they experienced? Nothing.  This is such a common occurance that is has become standard to see if you have at least gotten past 2.0's story.

    There's a difference between saying "FFXIV's opening questlines were so boring it made me not want to push further" to "FFXIV's story questline was so boring". How? It tells us where the game lost you and it doesn't generalize you to saying the whole story is bad - just that you didn't enjoy what you did and it didn't motivate you to continue.

    I couldn't get past the first chapter of Twilight thus I don't say it's awful, just that the first chapter did not inspire me to continue and Bella is extremely unlikeable. Reviews say that she does not get better so I'm not going to read it.

    And before you say "well, it's my opinion!", you are on a forum that will attract discussion based on that opinion so you will get feedback. The forum is not an echo chamber. It being your opinion does not mean people will not pick it apart or ask clarification or proof to show that you are making an informed opinion. That's how a forum works.

  • PurutzilPurutzil Member UncommonPosts: 3,048

    I highly disagree. How it functioned was far too static and practically forced on you. It wasn't at all a 'living' feeling world as much as a 'wait for this to pop' kind of experience. Its partially why the leveling experience for me was so poor and not very interesting. Games like Rift really felt more alive with its events functioning (which I do feel is no where near ultimately where it could be brought). Heck FF14 fates feel more dynamic and create a sense of liviness to the world for me and its really NOT that great of an example.

     

    Worst off all, itsacrifices a sense of story for it. Linear quests (while they can be boring) at least can build up to you accomplishing something. Static events in GW2 just repeat and its just a game of repetition. It only makes things that much more grindy even if you aren't going to some static quest hub, its static events you find what is up and go to it. There are some great events around, don't get me wrong, but even they lose their appeal after the 2nd or 3rd time doing it.

     

    Could the expansion change this and do the events right? Its possible, but how it is now they failed on achieving that end. I know some like it, but for me having the rather poor combat combined with a grindy 'repeat these static events when they pop up multiple times otherwise suffer through the horrors of a heart quest' made the over-all experience one of my most despised. 

     

  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,802

    I did get a bit further in the storyline of FF.

    Sad Sylphs.. the task was doing emotes in front of Sylphs...

     

    Early quest or not but considering this was the main storyline it was an abysmal experience.

    Harbinger of Fools
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,100
    Originally posted by Purutzil

    I highly disagree. How it functioned was far too static and practically forced on you. It wasn't at all a 'living' feeling world as much as a 'wait for this to pop' kind of experience. Its partially why the leveling experience for me was so poor and not very interesting. Games like Rift really felt more alive with its events functioning (which I do feel is no where near ultimately where it could be brought). Heck FF14 fates feel more dynamic and create a sense of liviness to the world for me and its really NOT that great of an example.

     

    The rift events in Rift were awesome, especially when it escalated to major invasions and had meaningful impact on the world (killing npcs, at least for a while). I would love to see that taken to the next level, with events that have even more and longer lasting impact on the world.

    ....
  • AmjocoAmjoco Member UncommonPosts: 4,860
    Originally posted by Purutzil

    I highly disagree. How it functioned was far too static and practically forced on you. It wasn't at all a 'living' feeling world as much as a 'wait for this to pop' kind of experience. Its partially why the leveling experience for me was so poor and not very interesting. Games like Rift really felt more alive with its events functioning (which I do feel is no where near ultimately where it could be brought). Heck FF14 fates feel more dynamic and create a sense of liviness to the world for me and its really NOT that great of an example.

     

    Worst off all, itsacrifices a sense of story for it. Linear quests (while they can be boring) at least can build up to you accomplishing something. Static events in GW2 just repeat and its just a game of repetition. It only makes things that much more grindy even if you aren't going to some static quest hub, its static events you find what is up and go to it. There are some great events around, don't get me wrong, but even they lose their appeal after the 2nd or 3rd time doing it.

     

    Could the expansion change this and do the events right? Its possible, but how it is now they failed on achieving that end. I know some like it, but for me having the rather poor combat combined with a grindy 'repeat these static events when they pop up multiple times otherwise suffer through the horrors of a heart quest' made the over-all experience one of my most despised. 

     

    I had the opposite happen with my first experience. With a hub (Lion's Arch) branching all race starting areas, it was amazing imo. Typical games start you out and you complete the quest hubs and continue to the next area. GW2 has some of the best open areas to explore of any game.

    Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.

  • ghorgosghorgos Member UncommonPosts: 191
    Originally posted by Amjoco

    I had the opposite happen with my first experience. With a hub (Lion's Arch) branching all race starting areas, it was amazing imo. Typical games start you out and you complete the quest hubs and continue to the next area. GW2 has some of the best open areas to explore of any game.

    on the other hand i remember the time heading vom Freeport to Qeynos in eq2 at early levels and that experience was ten times better than the ability to instant visit all low-lvl zones without any danger or challenge

  • DknightXDknightX Member UncommonPosts: 7
    I think quite the contrary actually.

    You know there's something wrong when it is widely agreed upon that the first Guild Wars is a better game. GW2 didn't reach its full potential. Perhaps in a possible 3rd installment they will improve its shortcomings.
  • NailzzzNailzzz Member UncommonPosts: 515

     I actually have to agree with the OP. The DE's in GW2 are one of the best steps forward in this genre I have seen in a long time. I really loved the PQ's in WAR when that came out and the rift's in RIFT. But the DE's in GW2 were the next step that offered far more varied content.

     One of my biggest criticism's of Arenanet is that they focused far too much on the "living story" content, when they should have been focusing on adding to the DE's. Both in terms of adding more DE's as well as adding to more chains on existing DE's. This would have addressed what many people are complaining about in terms of the DE's feeling too much like just constantly repeating quests. With more DE's in a given area, they could have widened the timers a bit so that they don't just repeat so frequently.

     I really wish they would just scrap the "living story" where they try to shoehorn in these stories about NPC's as our content, and instead focus on a living world where it is more about us as players having our own adventures. I would have thought they would have learned from the personal (Treaherne) story being the least popular aspect of their game at launch.

     Don't get me wrong, I still like GW2. I still recommend it. I just think they took an awesome idea and sidelined it in favor of sub par content. Just my opinion.

  • QSatuQSatu Member UncommonPosts: 1,796
    I might not like current ANet but I have to say that after GW2 all other mmos feel incredibly static. And other companies should try to evolve the idea of public/dynamic events.
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