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I need some diagnosis help

TribeofOneTribeofOne Member UncommonPosts: 1,006
in Hardware

Ive been having a strange new problem with my pc for the last few months. Im not very technical, so I'll try to explain as best I can.

basically its a restart problem.

when i start my pc from complete shutdown it works fine, no problems at all. However if i have to restart for any reason this is where it goes weird. Ok say I click restart or a program install etc requires a restart the pc shuts down, comes back up 3 times and on the 3 time all the lights come on the fans run it appears on but i get a message on the monitor saying its not receiving a signal.

if i force shutdown of the pc at this point make sure its off a few secs then click the power button its comes on and works fine.

only happens with restarts

 

any help or insight would be appreciated.

«1

Comments

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332

    I had a problem very similar to that on a PC about 4-5 years ago and stifled me for a long time.I finally decided to take it into a tech guy and he said my Windows files were corrupted,so that was basically all it took was a reinstall of Windows.

    Another similar problem i had on one computer was one of the  plug  connections had a weak connection,so sometimes it would run properly and other times it would not.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • MMOVet74MMOVet74 Member UncommonPosts: 76
    It's reboot looping, Could be a loose connection on your mobo or something as simple as updating your bios. Try posting your issue on tomshardware forum, they know their stuff.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719

    Which Windows version and what CPU? Separate GPU as well? Which?

     

    If you're running Windows 8 a restart from UI is now a shutdown followed immediately by a cold boot. In older versions there was a difference and a restart would do a special case of hibernate (saving some of the contents of memory to disk and then reloading off disk rather than loading all the drivers fresh) to reload itself faster but I think XP (or maybe 7) was the last one to do it that way.

     

    So if it's happening with 8 the problem probably is in the BIOS version or settings and probably beyond your technical expertise since BIOS flashing is not a trivial thing. If it's an earlier version, your video driver would be my first suspect followed by any odd drivers (as in uncommon) you might be using for some of your HW.

     

    Since it started a few months ago, you'd probably have hard time remembering what HW or software you added just before it started doing this making it much harder to troubleshoot

    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • TribeofOneTribeofOne Member UncommonPosts: 1,006

    Which Windows version and what CPU? Separate GPU as well? Which?

     

    windows 7 64  

    Intel i5 3570k

    AMD Radeon 7900 series

    I was trying to upgrade to win 10 but the installation requires multiple RESTARTS which hangs the process forcing me to do a hard shutdown that then results in an auto rollback to win 7

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Originally posted by TribeofOne

    Which Windows version and what CPU? Separate GPU as well? Which?

     

    windows 7 64  

    Intel i5 3570k

    AMD Radeon 7900 series

    I was trying to upgrade to win 10 but the installation requires multiple RESTARTS which hangs the process forcing me to do a hard shutdown that then results in an auto rollback to win 7

    Try installing the latest AMD driver (15.7.1) for Win7 64 for your card first and see if that fixes the restart problem.

     

    If that doesn't fix it, run MSconfig and take a look at what programs are loading when Windows starts and disable everything there and see if that fixes it.

     

    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • HyperpsycrowHyperpsycrow Member RarePosts: 954

    Try another psu...or update ur bios on the motherboard  or try to swicth cables  ect hdd cable or power cable or try disable the cables to the fans beside the cpu fan..maybe ur psu is to low volt or broken..maybe ur motherboard has a "brain damage"..could be any chip that has gone broken..but try these things i mentioned....disable all the extra things like cd rom drive and extra HDD that dont runs windows and fan cables and other usb port cables so you ONLY have the basic hardware running...ect  try reinstall ur windows...or try take out ram blocks and only use 1 block at the time...hope something helps.

     

     





  • TribeofOneTribeofOne Member UncommonPosts: 1,006
    thank for the advice all. I've tried everything mentioned except replacing the gfx card or psu and I'm still having the issues. I guess I'm going to have to take it in a repair shop or something. Best Buy Geek Squad a good place for something like this? I've never had to take a PC in for service before.
  • ThaneThane Member EpicPosts: 3,534
    edited August 2015
    yep, i'd guess on the mobo too, had quite the similiar prob once (in my case, the mobo was broken tho... worst case scenario)

    either try by just reinstalling windows on the same device, or go for another device.
    both approaches should give you some kind of answer :proud: 

    first approach gives you a bigger chance on an answer 2nd a bigger chance on a fix :pleased: 

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • GruntyGrunty Member EpicPosts: 8,657
    edited August 2015
    You won't walk out of Best Buy without at least a $100.00 bill plus trying to sell you a service contract.  A PSU tester costs between $20 and $50 and is a one time puchase.  Google PSU tester search

    FurMark is a free GPU tester that will push the GPU to it's limit. If the GPU runs Furmark for 10 minutes or so without issue then it should be good enough.  Be careful with FurMark because it stresses the GPU a lot.  http://www.ozone3d.net/benchmarks/fur/
    "I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone.  It's not.  The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone."  Robin Williams
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    TribeofOne said:
    thank for the advice all. I've tried everything mentioned except replacing the gfx card or psu and I'm still having the issues. I guess I'm going to have to take it in a repair shop or something. Best Buy Geek Squad a good place for something like this? I've never had to take a PC in for service before.

    I don't know about Geek Squad - never used them.


    But try one other thing first. When you boot from a cold boot and your BIOS goes through its normal POST, you say everything woks fine. It's only when you do a Restart through the Windows OS that you see the problem right?


    That makes me think that your MB and other HW is fine and the problems is software - either a corrupt OS file or some other problem.

    Your next step should be to back-up any files you need to back-up, documents, pictures, email, etc., and then try to do a Windows 7 repair. Try method 1 on this guide: http://www.wikihow.com/Reinstall-Windows-7
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,383
    yeah Geek Squad is awful. 

    I had a computer once upon a time that did the exact same thing. A BIOS update eventually fixed it, but until then, I just did a cold start every time, rather than trying to sleep or reboot.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    It seems to start perfectly but the monitor gets no signal? That means it is the graphics card, either is it overheating or the PSU can't  give it enough power.
    Try to put in a different powerconnector, that could help.
    Also, try to take of the sides of the case and place it so it have plenty of air all around it and see if the problem remain.

    You never get the same thing when running a GFX heavy game or benchmark tester?

    What PSU do you have (watt and model)?
  • GestankfaustGestankfaust Member UncommonPosts: 1,989
    TribeofOne said:

    I was trying to upgrade to win 10 but the installation requires multiple RESTARTS which hangs the process forcing me to do a hard shutdown that then results in an auto rollback to win 7

    Might be that you are doing an upgrade to Win 10 instead of a fresh install of Win 10. I have read that the fresh install has less problems. The upgrade doesn't like installed drivers from say Win7. Just what I have read. Sounds like it's the upgrade that is the problem to me though

    "This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."

  • TribeofOneTribeofOne Member UncommonPosts: 1,006
    Loke666 said:
    It seems to start perfectly but the monitor gets no signal? That means it is the graphics card, either is it overheating or the PSU can't  give it enough power.
    Try to put in a different powerconnector, that could help.
    Also, try to take of the sides of the case and place it so it have plenty of air all around it and see if the problem remain.

    You never get the same thing when running a GFX heavy game or benchmark tester?

    What PSU do you have (watt and model)?
    it starts fine from a complete shutdown but on any reboot/restart  the machine comes up then shuts down twice and on the third time it comes up the pc appears on but there is a message on the screen saying the monitor isn't receiving a signal at which point I have to hold down the power button, shutdown the pc completely then start it up again and all works fine.
    the gfx card a AMD Radeon HD 7950 and Ive never had issues using it.
    the psu is a Seasonic 850w


    if geek squad isnt recommended is there another national pc repair type place?
  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Member UncommonPosts: 1,082
    Sounds like a vid card issue to me. Did you try a different card or if you do not have one try to do a full software wipe for your vid card and reboot and let win set a base driver. Try to let it update to win 10 that way on base windows vid driver see if it happens. 

    http://www.guru3d.com/files-details/display-driver-uninstaller-download.html

    Program to help make sure your vid card drivers are really gone if needed.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    TribeofOne said:
    Loke666 said:
    It seems to start perfectly but the monitor gets no signal? That means it is the graphics card, either is it overheating or the PSU can't  give it enough power.
    Try to put in a different powerconnector, that could help.
    Also, try to take of the sides of the case and place it so it have plenty of air all around it and see if the problem remain.

    You never get the same thing when running a GFX heavy game or benchmark tester?

    What PSU do you have (watt and model)?
    it starts fine from a complete shutdown but on any reboot/restart  the machine comes up then shuts down twice and on the third time it comes up the pc appears on but there is a message on the screen saying the monitor isn't receiving a signal at which point I have to hold down the power button, shutdown the pc completely then start it up again and all works fine.
    the gfx card a AMD Radeon HD 7950 and Ive never had issues using it.
    the psu is a Seasonic 850w
    if geek squad isnt recommended is there another national pc repair type place?
    Odd, the PSU is well over the 500w you need and Seasonic is an acceptable brand.
    And if it shuts down by itself instead of starting with no signal it ain't the graphics card.

    Since it starts perfectly from cold it probably ain't Windows or the resolution that gets set higher than you monitor can handle.

    Do the windows log (control panel/adminstrative tools) give you any error from the times whne you failed to boot?
    If you physically check the motherboard, does it look like it have leaked any brown gunk on it?

    It sounds like it is something with the motherboard and it is worrying in that case because if it is it will get worse.

    As for PC repairer, can't help you there. I do alll that stuff myself, and with some time and physical access I would find your problem but it is way harder to solve over a forum.

    You don't get any beeping sounds when you fail to restart? You should possibly get a single beep, anything besides that could tell us something.

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,771
    TribeofOne said:

    Ive been having a strange new problem with my pc for the last few months. Im not very technical, so I'll try to explain as best I can.

    basically its a restart problem.

    when i start my pc from complete shutdown it works fine, no problems at all. However if i have to restart for any reason this is where it goes weird. Ok say I click restart or a program install etc requires a restart the pc shuts down, comes back up 3 times and on the 3 time all the lights come on the fans run it appears on but i get a message on the monitor saying its not receiving a signal.

    if i force shutdown of the pc at this point make sure its off a few secs then click the power button its comes on and works fine.

    only happens with restarts

     

    any help or insight would be appreciated.


    You say this new problem over the last few months.   Have you made any changes to your system (including hardware)?  For example, you replaced your RAM or GPU.   It is obviously a state the system is in that gets "cleared" when the power is off.

    It can be a lot of things.  Like incompatible RAM.

    What is the history of this PC? 
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    waynejr2 said:

    You say this new problem over the last few months.   Have you made any changes to your system (including hardware)?  For example, you replaced your RAM or GPU.   It is obviously a state the system is in that gets "cleared" when the power is off.

    It can be a lot of things.  Like incompatible RAM.

    What is the history of this PC? 
    Ram is very unlikely. However are that one easy to test. Run a memtester like this free one http://www.memtest86.com/ There are plenty of other free ones as well that are good.
    I think the likeliest thing is a leaking capacitor, probably in the motherboard but it could be in the GFX card even if that is pretty unlikely.
  • ReaperUkReaperUk Member UncommonPosts: 760
    edited August 2015
    My first thought is it's down to a failing power supply. The PSU puts out two voltages: 12V and 5V. The fans and lights use the 12V supply and the motherboard, processor use the 5V. If the 5V supply starts dropping, you can get the symptom described where the lights and fans will run but the machine won't boot. The only way to tell for sure though is to buy a dedicated PSU tester as already suggested.

    edit: Just realised my post didn't make sense. I accidentally referred to the motherboard as using 12V, where my whole point was it uses a diffferent voltage to the fans and lights. It was only when I read Loke666's response I realised my mistake. I've changed it now.
    Post edited by ReaperUk on
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    edited August 2015
    ReaperUk said:
    My first thought is it's down to a failing power supply. The PSU puts out two voltages: 12V and 5V. The fans and lights use the 12V supply and the motherboard, processor use the 12V. If the 5V supply starts dropping, you can get the symptom described where the lights and fans will run but the machine won't boot. Ther only way to tell for sure though is to buy a dedicated PSU tester as already suggested.
    I considered the same thing as well but his PSU is far beyond what he needs and off an acceptable brand. You could monitor the PSU with a program like http://toverclocker.software.informer.com/ but I feel that it also would crash during gaming now and then if it was the problem. Usually a crappy PSU can loose some part of it's power when pushed hard but here we are talking about it loosing 400W and just the exact power to reboot while not enough to crash the computer when running, also it would give more power when it's been turned off.. That would be one in a million.

    A capiacitor that have leaked could also give this exact issue and it would explain why it only is a problem when rebooting but works as usual when the power been off. That I actually seen before.
  • TribeofOneTribeofOne Member UncommonPosts: 1,006
    edited August 2015
    the only thing Ive chaged in hardware is that i added a ssd but Ive already disconnected it and problem remained. I also recently replaced the keyboard but Ive reconnected my old kb and it still happens. I'll open it again and look for any brown gunk or leakage on the mobo.
    as for a psu tester is this what iwould need? http://smile.amazon.com/dp/B005UZHB6G

    thanks again
  • ReaperUkReaperUk Member UncommonPosts: 760
    TribeofOne said:
    the only thing Ive chaged in hardware is that i added a ssd but Ive already disconnected it and problem remained. I also recently replaced the keyboard but Ive reconnected my old kb and it still happens. I'll open it again and look for any brown gunk or leakage on the mobo.
    as for a psu tester is this what iwould need? http://smile.amazon.com/dp/B005UZHB6G

    thanks again
    Yes. That will do the job, they're very easy to use.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    edited August 2015
    the only thing Ive chaged in hardware is that i added a ssd but Ive already disconnected it and problem remained. I also recently replaced the keyboard but Ive reconnected my old kb and it still happens. I'll open it again and look for any brown gunk or leakage on the mobo.
    as for a psu tester is this what iwould need? http://smile.amazon.com/dp/B005UZHB6G

    thanks again
    Teah, the harddrives have nothing to do with it or you would get either a S.M.A.R.T error or it wouldn't have found the HD at all. Same thing for the keyboard.

    The only possible issues is
    Motherboard
    GFX card
    PSU

    It ain't the CPU or the computer wouldn't behave like this.
    As for the PSU, try the software I linked to first before bothering to buy anything, it ain't as good as a physical tester but it is worth a try.


  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,771
    Loke666 said:
    waynejr2 said:

    You say this new problem over the last few months.   Have you made any changes to your system (including hardware)?  For example, you replaced your RAM or GPU.   It is obviously a state the system is in that gets "cleared" when the power is off.

    It can be a lot of things.  Like incompatible RAM.

    What is the history of this PC? 
    Ram is very unlikely. However are that one easy to test. Run a memtester like this free one http://www.memtest86.com/ There are plenty of other free ones as well that are good.
    I think the likeliest thing is a leaking capacitor, probably in the motherboard but it could be in the GFX card even if that is pretty unlikely.

    I have seen incompatible memory cause this problem.
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • TribeofOneTribeofOne Member UncommonPosts: 1,006
    edited August 2015
    ok an update.
    I read that my  motherboard was a Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H Dual Bios and how I could swap the backup bios for the present one. So I did that I also unplugged my gfx card and all the plugs to my psu and replugged them, making sure they were firmly inserted  and it appears to have solved one of my problems. When I restart my pc no longer comes up and back down 3 times, it only does it once.
    However the other issues still remains. Upon restart(only) I get no signal from the pc. Doing a complete shutdown still works properly with the pc coming up and working normally.

    thanks again for help
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