there is a major point that needs to be addressed here. is it pay to win? is it free to play? the answer is yes and no.........
its pay to win because if you dont pay to subscribe, you are likely never to catch up to the people that are subscribing and dumping as many hours into the game as you.. they will forever have almost double your progression speed.
is it free to play? yes..
now with both of those being said, as a free player, or a paying player, if you both have made it to lets say 15k prestige, one got there in 30 hours play time, the other 45-60 hours..... are both of the p2w and f2p characters on par with eachother? the answer is yes.. this game is weird because even if you arent p2w, it doesnt fucking matter.. you will likely never see the premium players. the only way you are going to group with the premium members, is 1. you hardcore grind your f2p ass off.. or 2.. the p2w players are not logging enough hours to keep way ahead of the curve. .
THAT IS HOW THIS GAME WORKS.
It's absolutely NOT pay to win actually. A subscriber gets a +50% bonus to sparks , credits and other currencies, but we all have the same cap. Premium will simply get you to that cap faster than a free to player will reach it. But if you started your character at the exact time as a subscriber started theirs, they will hit the cap sooner, but you will both have the same caps. Even if you don't reach your spark caps, it will carry over so you will forever be able to advance JUST as much as the subscriber. Basically being a subscriber just means you can put in less time to reach the cap.
THIS IS HOW THIS GAME REALLY WORKS.
Not true. When you pay you get a ton of argents. Argents are used to pay for slots on some of the atlas to make your character more powerful. They are used in other places as well with more on the way.
THAT IS LITERALLY P2W
Argents literally cannot be used in either Atlas. So don't know what you're trying to refer to here. Clearly you haven't played this game. The only way argents could boost your character's prestige is by buying Holy Texts with them and using those to strengthen your Provinces, which non subscribers could just run dungeons for AND holy texts share a cap with currency for the week. So those have a cap as well. Hence my previous statement still stands. I'm not saying this game is everyone's cup of tea, it definitely isn't, but saying it's P2W in it's current state is 100% wrong.
Argents are used to apply Coph, Ether and a third type of core. Clearly you haven't played this game. You must feel kind of silly right now I bet.
The P2W argument was completely irrelevant with how the game was functioning before. Now that PvP is operating on the prestige scaling system, it might actually be a relevant issue.
I really wish they would completely scrap pvp and start over. The scaling makes for better queue times but going up against players with all their talents and abilities is not fun, and with major class balance issues on top of that it can be downright miserable. With bugs in the pvp maps letting people hide with the flag in nearly unreachable spots, bizarre delays on picking up/returning flags, getting certain mounts past some spots but not others, weird design choices like not letting flag carriers use abilities, and the occasional performance seizure, there is a lot left to be desired.
/end rant, I am just getting really sick of them trying to force pvp with okki tablets and rings when the pvp clearly hasn't been polished even a little.
why is paying to progress faster not considered pay 2 win in this, progression only game? even after both the non payer and the payer hit all their caps. the guy that hit his caps first, will have more opportunities to stock up on the non limited items that are also used for your prestige. im so fucking lost as to how ppl can claim this isnt a pay2win game..
even if everything and i mean everything is achieved by both the payer and the non payer, the payer has had HOWEVER MANY months, and days of grinding and stocking up on items that will be used as soon as the next update comes, and that non payer will have JUST hit those limits. soon as update comes, bam, payer is ahead.
From where I stand. You have a magnitude of players that like to talk about p2w ideologies and a similar size amount of ppl that love to talk about circle jerks. Your the latter
I want to like it. I really do! I played cbt a few times and then when it went open I played again...briefly. Costumes were limited. Sorry, but they were. You had access to entire suits, not individual pieces and you also had limited customization on the actual physical look of your character. It wasn't bad for what it was at the time though and at least you don't have to equip stupid armor that looks dorky just to keep up stats.
I found it difficult to team...even in open beta. When I did team, the archetype combos played weird with each other. Basically, I played solo a lot.
My biggest beef! That damn mouse button power. It's a pain to have to sit there and try to keep track of how many clicks you've done to execute some power or combo. I'd rather just have it tied to a button. That way I know what I'm getting and when. Lots of running around too!
However, the actual animations are great. I really like the animations for the powers. Great job! I found the combat challenging at times also. I died quite a few times.
In the end, my thoughts are mixed. I might pick it up again if I continue to be bored with what's out there now.
there is a major point that needs to be addressed here. is it pay to win? is it free to play? the answer is yes and no.........
its pay to win because if you dont pay to subscribe, you are likely never to catch up to the people that are subscribing and dumping as many hours into the game as you.. they will forever have almost double your progression speed.
is it free to play? yes..
now with both of those being said, as a free player, or a paying player, if you both have made it to lets say 15k prestige, one got there in 30 hours play time, the other 45-60 hours..... are both of the p2w and f2p characters on par with eachother? the answer is yes.. this game is weird because even if you arent p2w, it doesnt fucking matter.. you will likely never see the premium players. the only way you are going to group with the premium members, is 1. you hardcore grind your f2p ass off.. or 2.. the p2w players are not logging enough hours to keep way ahead of the curve. .
THAT IS HOW THIS GAME WORKS.
It's absolutely NOT pay to win actually. A subscriber gets a +50% bonus to sparks , credits and other currencies, but we all have the same cap. Premium will simply get you to that cap faster than a free to player will reach it. But if you started your character at the exact time as a subscriber started theirs, they will hit the cap sooner, but you will both have the same caps. Even if you don't reach your spark caps, it will carry over so you will forever be able to advance JUST as much as the subscriber. Basically being a subscriber just means you can put in less time to reach the cap.
THIS IS HOW THIS GAME REALLY WORKS.
Not true. When you pay you get a ton of argents. Argents are used to pay for slots on some of the atlas to make your character more powerful. They are used in other places as well with more on the way.
THAT IS LITERALLY P2W
Argents literally cannot be used in either Atlas. So don't know what you're trying to refer to here. Clearly you haven't played this game. The only way argents could boost your character's prestige is by buying Holy Texts with them and using those to strengthen your Provinces, which non subscribers could just run dungeons for AND holy texts share a cap with currency for the week. So those have a cap as well. Hence my previous statement still stands. I'm not saying this game is everyone's cup of tea, it definitely isn't, but saying it's P2W in it's current state is 100% wrong.
Argents are used to apply Coph, Ether and a third type of core. Clearly you haven't played this game. You must feel kind of silly right now I bet.
Oooo my oversight. You're absolutely right they can be spent on those slots. But those slots have caps to every stat so eventually F2P players would hit that same cap. So again, you're paying for convenience.
when you pay for the convenience this game offers, you are paying to win.. even in the games where you believe true "pay 2 win" is present, eventually those payers quit and the non payers surpass them.. i guess they werent paying to win after all. or was it, they were paying 2 win during the time they were playing? mind = blown mate??? convenient pay 2 progress faster is a pay 2 win model.
I've been playing for a couple of days and I'm not sure how I feel about it. I would not hesitate to sink more time into it if I knew where it was leading. Do you literally have to grind the same exact instances over and over to get sparks for the different classes?
I started with a paladin and got him up to 699 prestige and they're telling me I need 700 for the next quest area. So I need to go back to Isola Digs again? Once in that place was enough. I was thinking about starting Cryomancer and found that was the only place I could go. So I have to level that through Isola Digs? Maybe I can just kill stuff? The combat is fun, but the "adventure" seemed to take a long time of just doing the same thing over and over again. Is that what I have to look forward, too?
Also, I read you can mess up your character if you don't know what you're doing. I don't know what I'm doing. Any good guides that explain this stuff?
When I said the combat is fun, it's because I find that it can get a bit more challenging than most other mmorpgs you start off in. You have to fight bosses and pay attention to what they do. But sometimes, after you figure out the mechanics, it just feels tedious. It takes a long time to kill this boss, even when you know the song and dance. I did roll a tank class, so the trade off for my survivability is low dps, so maybe that's the problem. When the bosses scale (is that what happens when you repeat content?) do they just get more HP and do the same attacks?
I've been playing for a couple of days and I'm not sure how I feel about it. I would not hesitate to sink more time into it if I knew where it was leading. Do you literally have to grind the same exact instances over and over to get sparks for the different classes?
I started with a paladin and got him up to 699 prestige and they're telling me I need 700 for the next quest area. So I need to go back to Isola Digs again? Once in that place was enough. I was thinking about starting Cryomancer and found that was the only place I could go. So I have to level that through Isola Digs? Maybe I can just kill stuff? The combat is fun, but the "adventure" seemed to take a long time of just doing the same thing over and over again. Is that what I have to look forward, too?
Also, I read you can mess up your character if you don't know what you're doing. I don't know what I'm doing. Any good guides that explain this stuff?
When I said the combat is fun, it's because I find that it can get a bit more challenging than most other mmorpgs you start off in. You have to fight bosses and pay attention to what they do. But sometimes, after you figure out the mechanics, it just feels tedious. It takes a long time to kill this boss, even when you know the song and dance. I did roll a tank class, so the trade off for my survivability is low dps, so maybe that's the problem. When the bosses scale (is that what happens when you repeat content?) do they just get more HP and do the same attacks?
There are many maps not part of the story line that are down right fun. Go do some of them and you will find less repeat. As for some repeating of maps. MMOs have been doing that for years with quest hubs. Getting all the quest done in a hub only to unlock a new set of quests that get you to go back to the same area killing the same mobs with different objectives.
At your prestige level you are now just getting a small picture of what the game is. If you dont like it by 1500+ you wont like it at all. Just remember dont stick to just the story quests, thats gona get old fast. Do the other maps as well. There are lots of them.
I tried it for 5 hours Boooring it's nothing but a grindfest ,pay to win,repetitive game with no pvp - takes forever to get enough to start pvp match. No healers it's dps and tanking i like healers no healers game gets deleted.
There has to be gates or the f2p riff raff that game hop without spending a dollar on a game would get to max and be the usual content locusts that they are.
You don't need precognitive powers to realise that in the first hour you've played exactly what you'll be playing in your 1,000 hour. If someone wants to pay for "more content" (AKA more of the same) they can knock themselves out as far as I'm concerned. In the meantime I'll save myself 999 hours of mind-numbing instance grinding and keep looking for a game with some depth. One day it might happen!
Except that they said they'll take every aspect of WoW and instance it. This is open beta. They just barely started the god-mode pvp form.
Vanilla wow was garbage for the first year or so. Level 40 and 60 mounts. Non-linked battlegrounds. No battleground reward other then exp. No pvp stat. Etc., etc.
Vanilla wow was garbage for the first year? Did you even play it? The level 40 and 60 mounts was changed much much later in WOTLK or MOP.
Vanilla WoW at launch had probably 1000 times the content this game has.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Worst feature of the game is LOADING Please Wait.... loading screens half the time you are waiting for loading screens more than any other game i have ever played very annoying.
I'm a noob at just over 2k prestige but still having fun. For me, it's in the category of a game like War Thunder/World of Tanks and Diablo 3. I can drop in and do some pve for while. I can pay to get something faster if I want to. My own criteria for pay to win is if you need to pay more than a box price to enjoy the game. I know the devs need to make some money, so if the game is fun, am I willing to pay for it?
I don't mind paying for premium time in games like War Thunder or Skyforge. I can drop in and play. WT is for my pvp and Skyforge for pve, kind of replacing D3 for me at the moment.
I thought I would hate this game. I don't like grinding, I like sandboxes games, I like open world pvp.
This game as none of it. Yet I have been playing since OBT and I just can't stop. Didn't have that much fun in a MMO since a long time.
Don't listen to the negatives peoples saying to not try it, because you should really try it. Even if you think you won't like it, give it a try. I actually had to try it twice, I gave up after 4 hours the first time.
Maybe you won't like it, but you might also be surprised and love it like me!
About some point talked in this thread
- it's not open world, only some map called adventure are open world, but only PvE.
- It is not P2W, well not in my book. Those saying P2Progress faster is pay to win in a progression game probably didn't play the game. I played both subscriber and free, and both rechead the cap each week. Cause you know there is a cap right? Even if you progress faster, you will cap after 3 days. The free player will cap after 5 day. You'll be equal in term of power.
And to be honest, prestige doesn't exactly mean stronger/more fun, as you are scaled in pvp. I'm actually stalling at 26k prestige to stay in lower bracket where I have more fun.
- Argent (the premium currency) is not P2W. You can get it with normal currency, and there is only one specific argent only buy that only argent can do : Some Atlas node. But those are useless and getting change in the next patch. If you invest in them you lost power as you also have to pay credit with your argent, and losing credit mean less equipement upgrade. And equipement upgrade are better then those useless node. At 26k prestige I got 0 of those nodes.
- The game change as you progress. It's not always the same grind as people said.
But the game is far from perfect, like any MMO
- Balance is shit. Some class are just way too strong right now. Knight and Slayer as an example. But next patch they should change that.
- Lot of bugs. Still in "open beta" (yeah right) so they have a lot of bugs going on, especially with physic and geometry.
- Progression caps aren't for everyone. I don't mind because I'm not hardcore enough, but some player will hate it.
Comments
I really wish they would completely scrap pvp and start over. The scaling makes for better queue times but going up against players with all their talents and abilities is not fun, and with major class balance issues on top of that it can be downright miserable. With bugs in the pvp maps letting people hide with the flag in nearly unreachable spots, bizarre delays on picking up/returning flags, getting certain mounts past some spots but not others, weird design choices like not letting flag carriers use abilities, and the occasional performance seizure, there is a lot left to be desired.
/end rant, I am just getting really sick of them trying to force pvp with okki tablets and rings when the pvp clearly hasn't been polished even a little.
I love being able to bank my resets and then pay for one or two days when I get the urge to grind in me. It's nice being catered to.
I'm a MUDder. I play MUDs.
Current: Dragonrealms
I found it difficult to team...even in open beta. When I did team, the archetype combos played weird with each other. Basically, I played solo a lot.
My biggest beef! That damn mouse button power. It's a pain to have to sit there and try to keep track of how many clicks you've done to execute some power or combo. I'd rather just have it tied to a button. That way I know what I'm getting and when. Lots of running around too!
However, the actual animations are great. I really like the animations for the powers. Great job! I found the combat challenging at times also. I died quite a few times.
In the end, my thoughts are mixed. I might pick it up again if I continue to be bored with what's out there now.
I started with a paladin and got him up to 699 prestige and they're telling me I need 700 for the next quest area. So I need to go back to Isola Digs again? Once in that place was enough. I was thinking about starting Cryomancer and found that was the only place I could go. So I have to level that through Isola Digs? Maybe I can just kill stuff? The combat is fun, but the "adventure" seemed to take a long time of just doing the same thing over and over again. Is that what I have to look forward, too?
Also, I read you can mess up your character if you don't know what you're doing. I don't know what I'm doing. Any good guides that explain this stuff?
When I said the combat is fun, it's because I find that it can get a bit more challenging than most other mmorpgs you start off in. You have to fight bosses and pay attention to what they do. But sometimes, after you figure out the mechanics, it just feels tedious. It takes a long time to kill this boss, even when you know the song and dance. I did roll a tank class, so the trade off for my survivability is low dps, so maybe that's the problem. When the bosses scale (is that what happens when you repeat content?) do they just get more HP and do the same attacks?
At your prestige level you are now just getting a small picture of what the game is. If you dont like it by 1500+ you wont like it at all. Just remember dont stick to just the story quests, thats gona get old fast. Do the other maps as well. There are lots of them.
No healers it's dps and tanking i like healers no healers game gets deleted.
Vanilla WoW at launch had probably 1000 times the content this game has.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I don't mind paying for premium time in games like War Thunder or Skyforge. I can drop in and play. WT is for my pvp and Skyforge for pve, kind of replacing D3 for me at the moment.
This game as none of it. Yet I have been playing since OBT and I just can't stop. Didn't have that much fun in a MMO since a long time.
Don't listen to the negatives peoples saying to not try it, because you should really try it. Even if you think you won't like it, give it a try. I actually had to try it twice, I gave up after 4 hours the first time.
Maybe you won't like it, but you might also be surprised and love it like me!
About some point talked in this thread
- it's not open world, only some map called adventure are open world, but only PvE.
- It is not P2W, well not in my book. Those saying P2Progress faster is pay to win in a progression game probably didn't play the game. I played both subscriber and free, and both rechead the cap each week. Cause you know there is a cap right? Even if you progress faster, you will cap after 3 days. The free player will cap after 5 day. You'll be equal in term of power.
And to be honest, prestige doesn't exactly mean stronger/more fun, as you are scaled in pvp. I'm actually stalling at 26k prestige to stay in lower bracket where I have more fun.
- Argent (the premium currency) is not P2W. You can get it with normal currency, and there is only one specific argent only buy that only argent can do : Some Atlas node. But those are useless and getting change in the next patch. If you invest in them you lost power as you also have to pay credit with your argent, and losing credit mean less equipement upgrade. And equipement upgrade are better then those useless node. At 26k prestige I got 0 of those nodes.
- The game change as you progress. It's not always the same grind as people said.
But the game is far from perfect, like any MMO
- Balance is shit. Some class are just way too strong right now. Knight and Slayer as an example. But next patch they should change that.
- Lot of bugs. Still in "open beta" (yeah right) so they have a lot of bugs going on, especially with physic and geometry.
- Progression caps aren't for everyone. I don't mind because I'm not hardcore enough, but some player will hate it.
TL;DR : Just try it, you could be surprised!