Derek Smart is claiming that they promised to refund his money, but then did not. It this is an accurate claim, it is a very legitimate reason for a lawsuit. If he can show that this is a pattern, then it is a very legitimate reason for a class action suit. The simple defense is to provide anyone promised a refund their money, and show this to the courts. If they do not want to/ can not do this, then there really is an issue, and the lawsuit will go forward.
I thought he himself said they gave him his money back, as that was in his own words... their answer to his original accusations/demands. Hell it was a major news story all over gaming sites at the time...
He is making a legal claim otherwise (as stated in the documents served). He is now stating that they promised to refund him, but did not. I am sure that as a legal basis, it has to be verifiable either way. I would expect RSI to clear this up pretty quick.
Yeah just read it myself, their (RSI) statements on the matter are every where on the net (We refunded DS)... so if what he says is true, that will not look good.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Haha, oh man let me get the popcorn. This guy's internet hissy fit has been an outstanding show.
Seriously, his internet exploits have been the best game he ever created and I can't get enough of it.
6 months of bullshit letters and replies going back and forth. Then most likely a hearing as I don't believe Derek listen's advice very well. Hopefully.... realistically... RSI will be able to recover legal costs from Derek.
Derek Smart is claiming that they promised to refund his money, but then did not. It this is an accurate claim, it is a very legitimate reason for a lawsuit. If he can show that this is a pattern, then it is a very legitimate reason for a class action suit. The simple defense is to provide anyone promised a refund their money, and show this to the courts. If they do not want to/ can not do this, then there really is an issue, and the lawsuit will go forward.
I thought he himself said they gave him his money back, as that was in his own words... their answer to his original accusations/demands. Hell it was a major news story all over gaming sites at the time...
He is making a legal claim otherwise (as stated in the documents served). He is now stating that they promised to refund him, but did not. I am sure that as a legal basis, it has to be verifiable either way. I would expect RSI to clear this up pretty quick.
Yeah just read it myself, their (RSI) statements on the matter are every where on the net (We refunded DS)... so if what he says is true, that will not look good.
It is important to remember, that this is the only actual issue here. Derek has made the following claims:
1. You took my money. 2. You didnt deliver as promised. 3. You didnt give my money back.
If they can show that #3 was done (money refunded), then #2 is a mute point (unless he can prove gross fraud, which would require internal documents showing the intent to mislead). The whole bulk of the letter, and the public drama is about #2, which is only ever an issue, if they refuse #3.
Been watching this crowd funding from the side line. There is more drama in this then game. I have always said this will jade people and it will be rare we see a project really be backed when time passes. Its just so easy for people to feel overly invested when they front money. Games development cycles change so much depending on so many thing that often what a game started out as can change. So many ways for people to feel ripped off or lied to. When in fact its just business and normal.
To many scammers jumping into this as well only give bad names to other games that should be funded only making things worse. Making people jump on games that should be left to do what they can. IMO, this is a fad that will pass and one day only rare gems will get funded. Welcome to the hick up of crowd funded games.
Yeah just read it myself, their (RSI) statements on the matter are every where on the net (We refunded DS)... so if what he says is true, that will not look good.
It is important to remember, that this is the only actual issue here. Derek has made the following claims:
1. You took my money. 2. You didnt deliver as promised. 3. You didnt give my money back.
If they can show that #3 was done (money refunded), then #2 is a mute point (unless he can prove gross fraud, which would require internal documents showing the intent to mislead). The whole bulk of the letter, and the public drama is about #2, which is only ever an issue, if they refuse #3.
Believe me I get all of that, I was just affirming your original point. Point number 2 is hard to prove either way, until they walk away without completing a game. Or someone steps in and finds they have not put forth such effort.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If they do not want to/ can not do this, then there really is an issue, and the lawsuit will go forward.
Key part being if they cannot provide refunds. If they cannot, then this suit will start the end of RSI and SC.
If they still have cash, and can provide refunds when asked even though they do not legally have to, this suit is a non-issue.
And we should stop giving Derek Smart a platform on this site. Seeing as I can't even speak out about games that I have actually purchased and played without being censored and banned on this site! That's far more than can be said about D Smart who gets to rant about a game no one has played and he has been refunded for.
In the latest salvo fired across the bow of the Roberts Space Industries ship, Derek Smart has hired the legal firm of De La Pena & Holiday LLP that has sent a letter demanding, among other things, immediate refunds to all parties requesting them regardless of Terms of Service restriction, a forensic accounting of the fund-raising activities of RSI along with a completion date for Star Citizen. All these are demanded via the letter "to avoid legal action" on behalf of Derek Smart.
Derek Smart, keeping us gaming nerds entertained with his constant greed and jealousy. It's just a shame it will take away funding from Star Citizen to be spent on legal fees. Just plain silly the lengths people will go to for money. Silly and sad.
In the latest salvo fired across the bow of the Roberts Space Industries ship, Derek Smart has hired the legal firm of De La Pena & Holiday LLP that has sent a letter demanding, among other things, immediate refunds to all parties requesting them regardless of Terms of Service restriction, a forensic accounting of the fund-raising activities of RSI along with a completion date for Star Citizen. All these are demanded via the letter "to avoid legal action" on behalf of Derek Smart.
Derek Smart, keeping us gaming nerds entertained with his constant greed and jealousy. It's just a shame it will take away funding from Star Citizen to be spent on legal fees. Just plain silly the lengths people will go to for money. Silly and sad.
here is the thing, they don't even need to prove they refunded his money, derek already declared over the internet and on forums they refunded his money so he can stop talking about the game as a backer, he can on the otehr hand say other backers want that refund and they did not provide, since they still need the money to make the vaporware they claim to be making.
thing is I need more popcorn for all this drama , a annoying moron trying to generate fame and some spotlight for his bugged game against a dev who just had several ship skins sell to raise even more money and did not deliver a basic game yet, and there is no time frame for one yet.
I think I would have a better case if I wrote Smart a letter with the help of a legal team that stated "Please voluntarily remove yourself from the development of any and all video games and never so much as play one for the rest of your life or I will sue you for being the Uwe Boll of video game developers". And then proceeded to actually sue him on those charges.
The facts are as follows. In or about October, 2012, You launched a crowd-funding
campaign to raise money from consumers purportedly to produce the Star Citizen video game.
In connection with the crowd-funding campaign, You represented that You would deliver the
game the consumers expected. Where Derek Smart is concerned, You promised a reward of a
finished game for PC with top-of-the-line RSI Constellation spaceship ready to fly + 10,000
Galactic Credits + Exclusive access to the Alpha and Beta + Spaceship shaped USB stick with
the game and all digital elements + CD of game soundtrack + Fold-up glossy full color map of
the game universe + Set of 5 Ship blueprints + 3-inch physical model of your in-game ship +Hardcover copy of 'The Making of Star Citizen' including loads of behind the scenes images
and info, prelim concept art, development stories + Silver Citizens Card.
Derek Smart continues to await these deliverables, having only received the Silver
Citizens Card to date. Further, You represented that You would provide regular updates about the
progress of the game, and that You would "show and tell" each milestone. You represented that
the consumers' voices would be heard. And that You would treat consumers with "the respect
[they] deserve" rather than spending money on public relations. Thereafter, You raised over
$2,000,000.00 on Kickstarter alone. Instead of producing the game or providing the reward
deliverables to consumers, however, You instead resumed the funding campaign on Your Roberts
Space Industries website, while significantly increasing the scope of the game, engaging in
various expenditures – including public relations and various worldwide media events, personal
expenditures - which are not attributed to the game’s material development. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4497650/dsmart_demand_letter_to_rsi-final.pdf
Maybe I am not reading it right....but weren't those items meant as rewards for when the game would be finished and released? I have seen/read that stretch goals gave out rewards of ingame items, but apart from the exclusive alpha/beta acces in above copy-paste everything else just seems release day items/rewards......
Overall intrested in how it will work out for DS, he must really feel confident to pursue this for his 250$ into SC. Though do agree with certain things as the game has too little to show , reading the stretch goals page: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals there should be allot of gameplay already but isn't made public? as in actually gameplay video's and most what is might aswell be small tech demo's.
Derek Smart is working for Chris Roberts. When he takes them to court and wins CR will claim he can't finish the game. CR and DS will retire in the bahamas with all the backers cash.
Just kidding.......OR AM I!!!?????
The facts are as follows. In or about October, 2012, You launched a crowd-funding
campaign to raise money from consumers purportedly to produce the Star Citizen video game.
In connection with the crowd-funding campaign, You represented that You would deliver the
game the consumers expected. Where Derek Smart is concerned, You promised a reward of a
finished game for PC with top-of-the-line RSI Constellation spaceship ready to fly + 10,000
Galactic Credits + Exclusive access to the Alpha and Beta + Spaceship shaped USB stick with
the game and all digital elements + CD of game soundtrack + Fold-up glossy full color map of
the game universe + Set of 5 Ship blueprints + 3-inch physical model of your in-game ship +Hardcover copy of 'The Making of Star Citizen' including loads of behind the scenes images
and info, prelim concept art, development stories + Silver Citizens Card.
Derek Smart continues to await these deliverables, having only received the Silver
Citizens Card to date. Further, You represented that You would provide regular updates about the
progress of the game, and that You would "show and tell" each milestone. You represented that
the consumers' voices would be heard. And that You would treat consumers with "the respect
[they] deserve" rather than spending money on public relations. Thereafter, You raised over
$2,000,000.00 on Kickstarter alone. Instead of producing the game or providing the reward
deliverables to consumers, however, You instead resumed the funding campaign on Your Roberts
Space Industries website, while significantly increasing the scope of the game, engaging in
various expenditures – including public relations and various worldwide media events, personal
expenditures - which are not attributed to the game’s material development. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4497650/dsmart_demand_letter_to_rsi-final.pdf
Maybe I am not reading it right....but weren't those items meant as rewards for when the game would be finished and released? I have seen/read that stretch goals gave out rewards of ingame items, but apart from the exclusive alpha/beta acces in above copy-paste everything else just seems release day items/rewards......
Overall intrested in how it will work out for DS, he must really feel confident to pursue this for his 250$ into SC. Though do agree with certain things as the game has too little to show , reading the stretch goals page: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals there should be allot of gameplay already but isn't made public? as in actually gameplay video's and most what is might aswell be small tech demo's.
By the looks of it, yes. Yes they are ingame items that Smart could only receive upon the completion/release of the game.
As for how this will work out for Smart, I have a feeling that this will all blow up in his face. He is, from what I gather in the letter, stating that he has not received stuff for a game that isn't even out yet that he couldn't possibly receive until it is released. In other words, he's trying to sue the people making the game for taking the time to make the game.
If this actually goes to court, I wouldn't be surprised if he is literally laughed out of the court and/or have the book thrown at him, both figuratively and once again literally. This wouldn't hold up even in a kangaroo court.
At the very least he has some defamation money coming his way. Guaranteed
Maybe this should be a lesson for future developers that use kick starter that it is unwise to string people along and break promises.
I kinda hope there is something to the suit. I kind of think we need to have some established laws directly related to crowdfunding.
Such as what? There are laws surrounding this. He's already indicated as such. The FTC is actually accepting complaints. Looks like they didn't find anything valid in Derek's request, so he's decided to take the law into his own hands. Don't think that Derek doesn't know his way around a courtroom, though.
Unfortunately, Derek Smart isn't helping the case for justice against crowdfunding AT ALL!!! He's essentially launched a lawsuit against a crowdfunded game that is, arguably, in better shape than his own property. Also, his efforts are entirely focused on derailing Star Citizen, for some reason. IMO, his efforts are better spent on improving his own game, which is in shambles, and working on making Alganon Online passable as an MMORPG. Instead, he's throwing money at lawyers on a witch hunt. Oh, and THIS is who QOL backed to run their company? Eff me! <-- this is what I'm sure has come out of their mouths a thousands times over since he took over.
No, this suit isn't good for crowdfunding legislation. It will NOT set a good precedent and it will NOT "fix" crowdfunding (which is arguably not broken in the first place). I mean if you want to crusade against something, why not crusade against games which delivered nothing and have gone "dark". Star Citizen releases news updates on a weekly (maybe even daily) basis. It is certainly AS agile with their updates as LOD is and it's significantly higher quality. Don't believe me, though, just have a look at this AMAZING 8 year-old particle effects: http://store.steampowered.com/app/266620/
Derek Smart is working for Chris Roberts. When he takes them to court and wins CR will claim he can't finish the game. CR and DS will retire in the bahamas with all the backers cash.
Just kidding.......OR AM I!!!?????
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Maybe I am not reading it right....but weren't those items meant as rewards for when the game would be finished and released? I have seen/read that stretch goals gave out rewards of ingame items, but apart from the exclusive alpha/beta acces in above copy-paste everything else just seems release day items/rewards......
He is stating that he has not received the money back (refund) or the rewards. This is what the lawsuit is about.
Maybe I am not reading it right....but weren't those items meant as rewards for when the game would be finished and released? I have seen/read that stretch goals gave out rewards of ingame items, but apart from the exclusive alpha/beta acces in above copy-paste everything else just seems release day items/rewards......
He is stating that he has not received the money back (refund) or the rewards. This is what the lawsuit is about.
Part of it is yes....but the document goes abit deeper then just stating "no money refund"
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Maybe I am not reading it right....but weren't those items meant as rewards for when the game would be finished and released? I have seen/read that stretch goals gave out rewards of ingame items, but apart from the exclusive alpha/beta acces in above copy-paste everything else just seems release day items/rewards......
He is stating that he has not received the money back (refund) or the rewards. This is what the lawsuit is about.
Part of it is yes....but the document goes abit deeper then just stating "no money refund"
The document could quote the literary works of William Shakespeare, but that would not change the actual LEGAL complaint being made. The fact that he is including his manifesto in the document does not necessarily make it relevant to the point of law.
I imagine he doesn't want to have another project succeed where he utterly failed. There was a long winded blog post by Derek "Smart" in regards to that fact that he tried and failed. Which meant that since he couldn't do it no one could. This man needs to be silenced and I hope his claims fail followed by a counter suit for the constant mud slinging he has been doing against SC.
If they sent him a check, and he does not cash it, he can claim that he didn't receive it or such. Stuff like this can be done to stall, and to harass. I would not put this past him.
Comments
Avatars are people too
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
1. You took my money.
2. You didnt deliver as promised.
3. You didnt give my money back.
If they can show that #3 was done (money refunded), then #2 is a mute point (unless he can prove gross fraud, which would require internal documents showing the intent to mislead). The whole bulk of the letter, and the public drama is about #2, which is only ever an issue, if they refuse #3.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If they still have cash, and can provide refunds when asked even though they do not legally have to, this suit is a non-issue.
And we should stop giving Derek Smart a platform on this site. Seeing as I can't even speak out about games that I have actually purchased and played without being censored and banned on this site! That's far more than can be said about D Smart who gets to rant about a game no one has played and he has been refunded for.
Smile
That's his AIM.
thing is I need more popcorn for all this drama
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
Maybe I am not reading it right....but weren't those items meant as rewards for when the game would be finished and released?
I have seen/read that stretch goals gave out rewards of ingame items, but apart from the exclusive alpha/beta acces in above copy-paste everything else just seems release day items/rewards......
Overall intrested in how it will work out for DS, he must really feel confident to pursue this for his 250$ into SC. Though do agree with certain things as the game has too little to show , reading the stretch goals page: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals there should be allot of gameplay already but isn't made public? as in actually gameplay video's and most what is might aswell be small tech demo's.
As for how this will work out for Smart, I have a feeling that this will all blow up in his face. He is, from what I gather in the letter, stating that he has not received stuff for a game that isn't even out yet that he couldn't possibly receive until it is released. In other words, he's trying to sue the people making the game for taking the time to make the game.
If this actually goes to court, I wouldn't be surprised if he is literally laughed out of the court and/or have the book thrown at him, both figuratively and once again literally. This wouldn't hold up even in a kangaroo court.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
Unfortunately, Derek Smart isn't helping the case for justice against crowdfunding AT ALL!!! He's essentially launched a lawsuit against a crowdfunded game that is, arguably, in better shape than his own property. Also, his efforts are entirely focused on derailing Star Citizen, for some reason. IMO, his efforts are better spent on improving his own game, which is in shambles, and working on making Alganon Online passable as an MMORPG. Instead, he's throwing money at lawyers on a witch hunt. Oh, and THIS is who QOL backed to run their company? Eff me! <-- this is what I'm sure has come out of their mouths a thousands times over since he took over.
No, this suit isn't good for crowdfunding legislation. It will NOT set a good precedent and it will NOT "fix" crowdfunding (which is arguably not broken in the first place). I mean if you want to crusade against something, why not crusade against games which delivered nothing and have gone "dark". Star Citizen releases news updates on a weekly (maybe even daily) basis. It is certainly AS agile with their updates as LOD is and it's significantly higher quality. Don't believe me, though, just have a look at this AMAZING 8 year-old particle effects:
http://store.steampowered.com/app/266620/
How can they make it look so real?!?
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.