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Do you think leveling is still viable this days ?
Alamonzoro
Member UncommonPosts: 120
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Post edited by Alamonzoro on
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slow/fast really depends on the above issue. if it is done right, slow leveling all the way.
Countless successful level-based games exist.
How could anyone seriously imply they're not viable?
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
People don't want to play these games... they just want to win. There's a big difference between playing a game and merely winning. It's been a long time since people have played these games. A very long time. They're too used to instant win to know any better.
But what we really need is devs who tries out different new ways of progression. The EQ/WoW mechanics have been taken as far as they can by now and it is time for new systems.
Those systems can be with or without levels. Pen and player games like R.I.F.T.S have levels but they make far less impact there then in MMOs (partly bacause of the setting, it really doesn't matter how many hitpoints you have when a missile hit you, the only thing that can save you then is a powerarmor).
There are many options, you could gain specific skills and bonuses every time you unlock an achivement. You could use a system close to Warhammer fantasys with you instead of levels progress through a few classes. You could use something like Shadowrun when you gain Karma for doing challenging content and then buy upgrades for it.
You could also mix levels with other types of progression, EQ already did this with AA points but you surely could do that a lot better.
My point anyways: levels can stay or go, the important thing is that the MMOs stop being exact cardboard copies of eachother. Yeah, not all MMOs are that but most certainly is.
Level-less progression has more room for experimentation, progression choices, variety in general.
But just like other things, if everyone starts doing the same thing, variety and choices die. We just need different mmos doing different things. Lets see some level-less mmos for a change. TSW removed character levels but still kept character progression tied to an experience bar so they didnt really change much. Lets do away with that and create something different and better.
In a WoW like mmo levels move the game forward.
In a skill based mmo with varying choices you dont need levels, you get better by doing things right instead of just hitting X level in order to use a specific peace of gear.
Thats how i see it, anyway.
I think the best way is to look on pen and paper systems and be inspired by them, that is where levelmechanics comes from as well and there are plenty of other mechanics that could be revamped for MMOs as well.
Anything that just feels like hidden levels is pointless.
There is a big difference between playing a game and merely reaching max level. It seems many players don't realize there's more journey to be had, and fixate on an arbitrary destination, ending their journey early.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
- Albert Einstein
Think of chess, do people rush to get to the endgame, because that is where it becomes fun? No, there is just one game, and when it is over, you are done. MMO's used to be that way, and as such the leveling process was to slow it down, so you didn't finish right away (which made it more enjoyable).
This way we could enjoy a game full of endgame-content that doesn't become obsolete within a day or two.
And as we're on it, get rid of the gear-progression aswell. All gear should be crafted with the materials we harvested, gathered, salvaged or looted. Some materials would only be available by running dungeons, some would only be available from PvP-areas, etc. Something for everyone and all content has the same meaning... to feed the economy and keep the world alive.
To guarantee constant demand of materials and crafted items, all items should decay over time or by heavily using them. Repairs do work, but only so far before an item is totally broken.
I want to roleplay - i.e. play a role within the game - and not be forced to level through meaningless content.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
And if you compare the content before and on levelcap most of the content is for leveling, far more then the endgame stuff. So I would say that new games generally aren't really made that way either, the experience points are just so buffed that you pass by most of the game in 2-3 weeks.
New games still have about as many zones at any given level as the older games had, they do have somewhat more for people who reached the levelcap but nowhere near what really is needed.
Roleplaying really isn't about gear or levels, it is about walking in someone elses shoes, experience wonders and adventure, about interacting with others and about telling a tory, together with others or alone.
Crafting your own gear isn't less or more roleplaying than looting the gear or just use the same gear the entire game. I played long pen and paper RPG campaigns without adding a single piece of gear to my character, stuff like that is optional.
What makes it a RPG is that you create a character and interact with the game as he or she would.
Sorry don't have much else to add. It's just been a while since i have had any outlet for my inner R.I.F.T.S nerd. Otherwise i completely agree. I think we both have a huge respect for Guild Wars 1 for the way it handled level's and horizontal progression. I also liked how games like TSW handled them, even if the game suffered from other problems that hampered the design of the skills themselves. Or even to step outside of mmo's, look at games like Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines which adhered very closely to the RPG itself.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver