Edit my reply: That sounds great as far as it goes, and it's part of what I'm interested in. But buying game stuff for cash pretty much removes me from the world. Literally.
It's rare for companies to avoid that in modern times. Revival sells houses. Chronicles of Elyria plans to sell in-game gold for cash just like Perfect World Entertainment sell their zen. I can look past all that as long as they can deliver what they promise.
I keep hearing people complain about not feeling as if they are "part of the world". I agree with that statement. What honestly would make you feel like you're part of the game / inside your character?
I remember my experiences with Darkfall and Mortal Online. While there were no "hold my hand quests", the games were just so damn boring...
I remember my experienced with WoW, SWTOR, AoC, WAR, etc... The "quest hub to quest hub" progression was just so damn boring...
Imagine that when you logged off your character carries on in the world doing such things as street performing or patrolling your guild, working in an inn sweeping or selling your wares on a stall.
For all these things you actually earn money, i walk into a city and actually see other players acting like npc's but they are offline. Now with all this comes danger of also being kidnapped and sold to another merchant, you log back on and you are half way across the world in another town/city.
If this is not immersive then i don't know what is at this point.
Edit my reply: That sounds great as far as it goes, and it's part of what I'm interested in. But buying game stuff for cash pretty much removes me from the world. Literally.
You get what you pay for.
Really? Can I see screen shots?
MMO Indies like this are selling stuff before it's made on the assumption it will be made. But the money isn't even close to enough to carry through.
Edit my reply: That sounds great as far as it goes, and it's part of what I'm interested in. But buying game stuff for cash pretty much removes me from the world. Literally.
You get what you pay for.
Really? Can I see screen shots?
MMO Indies like this are selling stuff before it's made on the assumption it will be made. But the money isn't even close to enough to carry through.
Not only can you see screenshots, you can already download a game client and walk inside your house. You can watch some player inside his house in this YouTube video.
The money isn't even close because revenue from house sales is only a minor portion of the game's total budget. Most part of the budget comes from their company's other endeavours.
Edit my reply: That sounds great as far as it goes, and it's part of what I'm interested in. But buying game stuff for cash pretty much removes me from the world. Literally.
You get what you pay for.
Really? Can I see screen shots?
MMO Indies like this are selling stuff before it's made on the assumption it will be made. But the money isn't even close to enough to carry through.
Not only can you see screenshots, you can already download a game client and walk inside your house. You can watch some player inside his house in this YouTube video.
The money isn't even close because revenue from house sales is only a minor portion of the game's total budget. Most part of the budget comes from their company's other endeavours.
Ok, that's pretty cool. I stand corrected.
But it's pay to win so I'm out, as I said before. There's possibly other things that would keep me away too, but that's another story.
Our current server plans (subject to change): 1) Gold Servers - Subscription Required - Live Storytelling - SP can be purchased - Protection plans available 2) Regular Servers - No Subscription - No Live Storytelling - SP can be purchased - Protection plans available 3)
Hardcore Server - No Subscription - No Live Storytelling - SP cannot be
purchased - No Protection Plans - Limited Respawn - No blessings
The only time I've ever felt like I was "part of the game world" was in Star Wars Galaxies.
Why? Because we really did forge our own destinies. For instance, everyone knew who the best weaponsmiths / armorsmiths / tailors were, as their shop locations were always filled with eager and waiting players.
For me it would be having the option to actually just live in a city or specific area, never having to leave if i dont want to, in order to participate in the game. Or finding hunting areas and just living there, experience the spawns and whatever happened in that area, getting to know other people in that area, living a routine in that part of the world. SWG could work this way pretty well. EQ you could do it but it was all rp on the part of the players, not part of the main game. AO was sorta like that sometimes in the beginning. Muds still work this way pretty easily. Camps were a place where you got to know people and would often see them again the next day.
with eso and gw2 especially its all about the running around and doing all of this and keep up with the storyline and complete all these zones and everyones in a race to go somewhere. Would be more fun if there were just regular event areas that people would sit the fuck down and enjoy being in the game and seeing each other day after day.
I really felt a part of the game world in Face of Mankind, at least during the period in 2005-2007.
Every player had to choose a faction during character creation. There were three corporations, three government factions and three clan factions. I made my character for one of the government factions, the Law Enforcement Department. I went from my little apartment to work as a police man. Higher ranking officers in the faction sent us to patrol streets and some shopping mall in New York. We walked around, scanning people for posession of drugs and trying to keep law and order. Police officers had a special function that allowed to arrest stunned criminals and send them to a prison planet. Some members of Law Enforcement Department worked at the prison as guards and wards. If some player was sent to a prison, they had to complete some prison objectives like searching for soap, doing a certain number of push-ups or walking in the prison yard.
There was a clan faction called Brotherhood of Shadows that specialised in gangster and drug production activities. It was one of the main anti-factions for L.E.D. Our main ally was Freedom Defense Corps, which was the government army. Those guys even had their own starship. If things got really bad on a planet, the government would issue martial law and send in the marines to help restore the situation.
Every faction had its own elaborate hierarchy. In L.E.D there were patrol officers, prison wards, detectives and internal affairs division who investigated corrupted cops. Detectives investigated criminal activities and created missions for patrolling police officers. The faction was led by commissioners who had links to the government and politicians.
For a world to feel alive it has to make some sense. Perfectly placed roaming mobs walking in the same path all the time doesn't do that. A city also have to feel like a city instead of a few random cardboard houses, a working city have several things like marketplaces, stores, taverns and a graveyard (could be outside town) to mention a few.
A wood also need to seem a bit alive, with animals and plants, small details like that. Maybe a few old stones who once have been a house in a spot, a megailith standing somewhere.
Now, making the character to fit in isn't always easy either. Your character should have some kind of motivation for doing what he or she does. And other small thing, like an npc saying hello when you pass by, or sneering at you for that matter.
Player housing also helps. I did like in EQ2 when I finally learned to speak gnoll the first thing the gnolls shouted instead of grunting was "A healer, kill him".
Mostly for me it is small details that makes the game feel more real than a murder simular where you kill everything you see for just XP and loot.
Edit my reply: That sounds great as far as it goes, and it's part of what I'm interested in. But buying game stuff for cash pretty much removes me from the world. Literally.
You get what you pay for.
Really? Can I see screen shots?
MMO Indies like this are selling stuff before it's made on the assumption it will be made. But the money isn't even close to enough to carry through.
Not only can you see screenshots, you can already download a game client and walk inside your house. You can watch some player inside his house in this YouTube video.
The money isn't even close because revenue from house sales is only a minor portion of the game's total budget. Most part of the budget comes from their company's other endeavours.
Ok, that's pretty cool. I stand corrected.
But it's pay to win so I'm out, as I said before. There's possibly other things that would keep me away too, but that's another story.
Please give examples how its play to win please. You don't need a house in Revival, and you can always buy a tenement for less than 40 dollars. Homes are for political influence mainly and for certain types of guilds. Not all types of guilds need them. Why not read all the information on the site before making hasty judgements? In some of the blogs the devs even give an example as to why it might be bad to buy a house in a city as cities can be taken over by evil factions. Also houses can be destroyed by in game events.
How bout we do some reading yes?
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
I really felt a part of the game world in Face of Mankind, at least during the period in 2005-2007.
Every player had to choose a faction during character creation. There were three corporations, three government factions and three clan factions. I made my character for one of the government factions, the Law Enforcement Department. I went from my little apartment to work as a police man. Higher ranking officers in the faction sent us to patrol streets and some shopping mall in New York. We walked around, scanning people for posession of drugs and trying to keep law and order. Police officers had a special function that allowed to arrest stunned criminals and send them to a prison planet. Some members of Law Enforcement Department worked at the prison as guards and wards. If some player was sent to a prison, they had to complete some prison objectives like searching for soap, doing a certain number of push-ups or walking in the prison yard.
There was a clan faction called Brotherhood of Shadows that specialised in gangster and drug production activities. It was one of the main anti-factions for L.E.D. Our main ally was Freedom Defense Corps, which was the government army. Those guys even had their own starship. If things got really bad on a planet, the government would issue martial law and send in the marines to help restore the situation.
Every faction had its own elaborate hierarchy. In L.E.D there were patrol officers, prison wards, detectives and internal affairs division who investigated corrupted cops. Detectives investigated criminal activities and created missions for patrolling police officers. The faction was led by commissioners who had links to the government and politicians.
Good old FoM. I usually don't touch crappy ffa titles like mo or df, but FoM was different, it had so much potential and could've been an awesome game - without that bullpoo ow-ffa-loot pvp which killed off the game every time they relaunched it. (btw never was in the police, since those were the most corrupted mo-fo bunch among the factions - at least those times I've played )
As I wrote after the latest closure not long ago (but before the mmorpg forum change, and sadly it seems under the new forum there's no Face of Mankind subforum, so can't find that post...*), they should relaunch the game without any changes, with all the mechanics already in there - just leaving out the pvp, and it'd be a hit and a roleplayer's heaven. So many great ideas, all went down the drain because of that lame "if there's shooting, we'll shoot, screw the rest of the game, let's gank, pew pew". On top of that, the engine was way behind that toxic mindset as well - meaning there were every kinda cheatprogs you can imagine. (maybe it was changed, I played with the 2010-ish version, and then a second time a few years later, so I'm not familiar with the last version which they closed recently)
For different people it will mean different things, but I think there is some common ground we all share.
Tiny MMO's with rat run strips of landscape are not immersive. Having gameplay stripped to the bare bones, levelling and hitting things is not immersive. Reducing interaction between players until it is non-existent is not immersive.
More is immersive, more landscape, more types of gameplay and more interaction make you feel part of a living world.
We will differ on what part of "the more" we want, but that's what we want.
For me to feel part of a world, there needs to be two things:
1) Connection to other players 2) In game consequences for my actions
For the connection to other players, this is about both making friends in game (outside of the guild) as well as there being recognisable characters on the server. Most importantly, I need to be able to see these people in the game world organically.
For example, in vanilla LotRO, there were a number of people on our server who became known as great pug leaders, there were known great pvpers, raiders etc. You'd see these people in the chat channels, but then most importantly you'd see them out and about in the game world. The pvpers were obvious, you'd see them out in the ettenmoors (pvp zone) but then it'd be fun to try and take them out. The raiders, you'd hear their names on the forums or in game chat, but then you'd see them hanging out in the auction houses, waiting outside raid entrances etc.
I have found that with quick travel, lobbies, instanced pvp etc, you might recognise a few names but you never see them about in the game so you don't make that connection.
As for in game consequences, this is about building player cities, having solid player economies, taking over keeps in pvp etc. Basically, the core sandbox features.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
I find the Witcher games to be very immersive. I also found the mass effect games to be immersive. It's a combination of the graphics, story, music, characters, interaction, and how it's all used together.
MMOs are a different beast. They usually have far more simple graphics, gameplay, music, cinematics, and combat. The big draw for me was always being able to escape in a fantasy world that I liked with other people. The entertainment was often just wandering around and listening to what other people were saying in general chat. Many times it was nonsense, but sometimes that is amusing (for me). The solo experience, fractured world, lack of meaningful interaction, and overall elimination of potential for bad behavior effecting others makes the games lose a lot of their appeal to me. Generally they just feel like a really poorly done single player game with some fairly repetitive PvP, group PvE, and raiding tacked on. In the end I'd rather play by myself in a more immersive world then play in an MMO that is a poor replica of a single player experience with a few additions. Most single player games are adding large worlds to explore that only MMOs had in the past. I often wonder what appeals to so many people with current MMOs. They have no real purpose. You just complete almost the same simple task over and over again through most of the game. There are a few challenges at endgame, but that's it. Most people quit by that point anyway.
Comments
It's rare for companies to avoid that in modern times. Revival sells houses. Chronicles of Elyria plans to sell in-game gold for cash just like Perfect World Entertainment sell their zen. I can look past all that as long as they can deliver what they promise.
* more info, screenshots and videos here
For all these things you actually earn money, i walk into a city and actually see other players acting like npc's but they are offline. Now with all this comes danger of also being kidnapped and sold to another merchant, you log back on and you are half way across the world in another town/city.
If this is not immersive then i don't know what is at this point.
* more info, screenshots and videos here
MMO Indies like this are selling stuff before it's made on the assumption it will be made. But the money isn't even close to enough to carry through.
Once upon a time....
Not only can you see screenshots, you can already download a game client and walk inside your house. You can watch some player inside his house in this YouTube video.
The money isn't even close because revenue from house sales is only a minor portion of the game's total budget. Most part of the budget comes from their company's other endeavours.
* more info, screenshots and videos here
But it's pay to win so I'm out, as I said before.
There's possibly other things that would keep me away too, but that's another story.
Once upon a time....
https://www.revivalgame.com/forum#/discussion/comment/1199
Our current server plans (subject to change):
1) Gold Servers - Subscription Required - Live Storytelling - SP can be purchased - Protection plans available
2) Regular Servers - No Subscription - No Live Storytelling - SP can be purchased - Protection plans available
3) Hardcore Server - No Subscription - No Live Storytelling - SP cannot be purchased - No Protection Plans - Limited Respawn - No blessings
* more info, screenshots and videos here
Why? Because we really did forge our own destinies. For instance, everyone knew who the best weaponsmiths / armorsmiths / tailors were, as their shop locations were always filled with eager and waiting players.
with eso and gw2 especially its all about the running around and doing all of this and keep up with the storyline and complete all these zones and everyones in a race to go somewhere. Would be more fun if there were just regular event areas that people would sit the fuck down and enjoy being in the game and seeing each other day after day.
Every player had to choose a faction during character creation. There were three corporations, three government factions and three clan factions. I made my character for one of the government factions, the Law Enforcement Department. I went from my little apartment to work as a police man. Higher ranking officers in the faction sent us to patrol streets and some shopping mall in New York. We walked around, scanning people for posession of drugs and trying to keep law and order. Police officers had a special function that allowed to arrest stunned criminals and send them to a prison planet. Some members of Law Enforcement Department worked at the prison as guards and wards. If some player was sent to a prison, they had to complete some prison objectives like searching for soap, doing a certain number of push-ups or walking in the prison yard.
There was a clan faction called Brotherhood of Shadows that specialised in gangster and drug production activities. It was one of the main anti-factions for L.E.D. Our main ally was Freedom Defense Corps, which was the government army. Those guys even had their own starship. If things got really bad on a planet, the government would issue martial law and send in the marines to help restore the situation.
Every faction had its own elaborate hierarchy. In L.E.D there were patrol officers, prison wards, detectives and internal affairs division who investigated corrupted cops. Detectives investigated criminal activities and created missions for patrolling police officers. The faction was led by commissioners who had links to the government and politicians.
* more info, screenshots and videos here
A wood also need to seem a bit alive, with animals and plants, small details like that. Maybe a few old stones who once have been a house in a spot, a megailith standing somewhere.
Now, making the character to fit in isn't always easy either. Your character should have some kind of motivation for doing what he or she does. And other small thing, like an npc saying hello when you pass by, or sneering at you for that matter.
Player housing also helps. I did like in EQ2 when I finally learned to speak gnoll the first thing the gnolls shouted instead of grunting was "A healer, kill him".
Mostly for me it is small details that makes the game feel more real than a murder simular where you kill everything you see for just XP and loot.
How bout we do some reading yes?
Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!
Yes it does it's called Age Of Wulin, not the bad NA version called Age Of Wushu but the European version is the one to play.
As I wrote after the latest closure not long ago (but before the mmorpg forum change, and sadly it seems under the new forum there's no Face of Mankind subforum, so can't find that post...*), they should relaunch the game without any changes, with all the mechanics already in there - just leaving out the pvp, and it'd be a hit and a roleplayer's heaven. So many great ideas, all went down the drain because of that lame "if there's shooting, we'll shoot, screw the rest of the game, let's gank, pew pew". On top of that, the engine was way behind that toxic mindset as well - meaning there were every kinda cheatprogs you can imagine. (maybe it was changed, I played with the 2010-ish version, and then a second time a few years later, so I'm not familiar with the last version which they closed recently)
*edit: found it http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/comment/6696946/#Comment_6696946
For different people it will mean different things, but I think there is some common ground we all share.
Tiny MMO's with rat run strips of landscape are not immersive. Having gameplay stripped to the bare bones, levelling and hitting things is not immersive. Reducing interaction between players until it is non-existent is not immersive.
More is immersive, more landscape, more types of gameplay and more interaction make you feel part of a living world.
We will differ on what part of "the more" we want, but that's what we want.
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
1) Connection to other players
2) In game consequences for my actions
For the connection to other players, this is about both making friends in game (outside of the guild) as well as there being recognisable characters on the server. Most importantly, I need to be able to see these people in the game world organically.
For example, in vanilla LotRO, there were a number of people on our server who became known as great pug leaders, there were known great pvpers, raiders etc. You'd see these people in the chat channels, but then most importantly you'd see them out and about in the game world. The pvpers were obvious, you'd see them out in the ettenmoors (pvp zone) but then it'd be fun to try and take them out. The raiders, you'd hear their names on the forums or in game chat, but then you'd see them hanging out in the auction houses, waiting outside raid entrances etc.
I have found that with quick travel, lobbies, instanced pvp etc, you might recognise a few names but you never see them about in the game so you don't make that connection.
As for in game consequences, this is about building player cities, having solid player economies, taking over keeps in pvp etc. Basically, the core sandbox features.
MMOs are a different beast. They usually have far more simple graphics, gameplay, music, cinematics, and combat. The big draw for me was always being able to escape in a fantasy world that I liked with other people. The entertainment was often just wandering around and listening to what other people were saying in general chat. Many times it was nonsense, but sometimes that is amusing (for me). The solo experience, fractured world, lack of meaningful interaction, and overall elimination of potential for bad behavior effecting others makes the games lose a lot of their appeal to me. Generally they just feel like a really poorly done single player game with some fairly repetitive PvP, group PvE, and raiding tacked on. In the end I'd rather play by myself in a more immersive world then play in an MMO that is a poor replica of a single player experience with a few additions. Most single player games are adding large worlds to explore that only MMOs had in the past. I often wonder what appeals to so many people with current MMOs. They have no real purpose. You just complete almost the same simple task over and over again through most of the game. There are a few challenges at endgame, but that's it. Most people quit by that point anyway.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Example: dude wears shock dog collar -