So back and forth about fun now, and so on. The thing is GW2 progression is, I think by design, the same as the fun factor. In that to say it is what you make of it. The developers have said in interviews before, they enjoy the fact that gw2 is a game where you, and your friends make the game fun in your way. I don't think they will admit, but GW2 is not a great game played solo. It is for groups of friends, or friendly guilds with daily activities being done. This is why you can be in more than one guild. Some guilds are 100% rep others aren't, there's a guild for every game flavor imaginable though. You can also join guilds cross server and do anything with them besides WvW.
As other comments have pointed out there is no clear cut progression, nothing saying you must do anything. You can just log in and enjoy a few hours with friends, and go back to life or other games. This is what Arena Net preached when they launched, and it still holds true.
Some players are just so used to having a clear cut way of doing it, they expect it in every game. I've played through them all as well, EQ, Daoc, Shadowbane, WoW, Warhammer, Aion, FFXIV launch, and ARR, Rift, Archeage; and countless smaller titles in between. I know what other games have offered. GW2 has just as much to offer, but unlike some of those other titles which can be gone through solo, gw2 falls a bit short in some areas. The thing that most of those other titles have in common is, clear cut tasks given to you by the game, GW2 doesn't really have this. It focuses on things you can do, rather than what you need to do. The style of progression isn't for everyone, but it's there in abundance if you want it. Same with the fun.
So back and forth about fun now, and so on. The thing is GW2 progression is, I think by design, the same as the fun factor. In that to say it is what you make of it. The developers have said in interviews before, they enjoy the fact that gw2 is a game where you, and your friends make the game fun in your way. I don't think they will admit, but GW2 is not a great game played solo. It is for groups of friends, or friendly guilds with daily activities being done. This is why you can be in more than one guild. Some guilds are 100% rep others aren't, there's a guild for every game flavor imaginable though. You can also join guilds cross server and do anything with them besides WvW.
As other comments have pointed out there is no clear cut progression, nothing saying you must do anything. You can just log in and enjoy a few hours with friends, and go back to life or other games. This is what Arena Net preached when they launched, and it still holds true.
Some players are just so used to having a clear cut way of doing it, they expect it in every game. I've played through them all as well, EQ, Daoc, Shadowbane, WoW, Warhammer, Aion, FFXIV launch, and ARR, Rift, Archeage; and countless smaller titles in between. I know what other games have offered. GW2 has just as much to offer, but unlike some of those other titles which can be gone through solo, gw2 falls a bit short in some areas. The thing that most of those other titles have in common is, clear cut tasks given to you by the game, GW2 doesn't really have this. It focuses on things you can do, rather than what you need to do. The style of progression isn't for everyone, but it's there in abundance if you want it. Same with the fun.
There's a lot of truth here.
I don't really know anyone who will claim that GW2 is a perfect game, nor for everyone. However, the game to this day gets demonized and criticized for things based on misinformation.
What a lot of people fail to understand about this game are the intentions it has with it's design, and the types of gameplay this game caters to.
The status quo for MMORPGs, for more than a decade, have been games based around chasing better and better gear (which invalidates your previous gear). We've also had games based around more and more linear gameplay (ever since WoW).
The problem is, that while a lot of people like this type of gameplay (and indeed many are hooked on it), there are a good amount of people who are tired of it. They like having more freedom in their games, and that's what GW2 offers a ton of. You have the freedom to play as you want, but the cost of that freedom is that there isn't as much directed incentive to do any one thing. This is where most people miss the mark on this game.
I decided to take up tennis, so I went and bought a tennis racket and some tennis balls and even a full tennis outfit. I walked on to the court hit the ball forehand and backhand and realized there was nothing left for me to add or do so I quit. Wow, tennis sucks.
Haha, this is one of the best posts I have read.
OP if you only play a game to get new skills and aren't interested in the exploration, spvp, WvW, story, various dungeons, collectibles, crafting, finding people to group with, or discovering the intricacies of your class or the other classes then I am not sure if there is much GW2 has to offer you from here.
So back and forth about fun now, and so on. The thing is GW2 progression is, I think by design, the same as the fun factor. In that to say it is what you make of it. The developers have said in interviews before, they enjoy the fact that gw2 is a game where you, and your friends make the game fun in your way. I don't think they will admit, but GW2 is not a great game played solo. It is for groups of friends, or friendly guilds with daily activities being done. This is why you can be in more than one guild. Some guilds are 100% rep others aren't, there's a guild for every game flavor imaginable though. You can also join guilds cross server and do anything with them besides WvW.
As other comments have pointed out there is no clear cut progression, nothing saying you must do anything. You can just log in and enjoy a few hours with friends, and go back to life or other games. This is what Arena Net preached when they launched, and it still holds true.
Some players are just so used to having a clear cut way of doing it, they expect it in every game. I've played through them all as well, EQ, Daoc, Shadowbane, WoW, Warhammer, Aion, FFXIV launch, and ARR, Rift, Archeage; and countless smaller titles in between. I know what other games have offered. GW2 has just as much to offer, but unlike some of those other titles which can be gone through solo, gw2 falls a bit short in some areas. The thing that most of those other titles have in common is, clear cut tasks given to you by the game, GW2 doesn't really have this. It focuses on things you can do, rather than what you need to do. The style of progression isn't for everyone, but it's there in abundance if you want it. Same with the fun.
There's a lot of truth here.
I don't really know anyone who will claim that GW2 is a perfect game, nor for everyone. However, the game to this day gets demonized and criticized for things based on misinformation.
What a lot of people fail to understand about this game are the intentions it has with it's design, and the types of gameplay this game caters to.
The status quo for MMORPGs, for more than a decade, have been games based around chasing better and better gear (which invalidates your previous gear). We've also had games based around more and more linear gameplay (ever since WoW).
The problem is, that while a lot of people like this type of gameplay (and indeed many are hooked on it), there are a good amount of people who are tired of it. They like having more freedom in their games, and that's what GW2 offers a ton of. You have the freedom to play as you want, but the cost of that freedom is that there isn't as much directed incentive to do any one thing. This is where most people miss the mark on this game.
I think it really has to do with your interests. If what drives you and motivates you in game is "progression", as in the gradual unlocking of more powerful or unique items and skill, then yes, GW2 doesn't have much to offer beyond level 31. Sure, you can unlock some more specs or get some slightly more powerful gear, but that's tame compared to most other MMOs.
On the other hand, the way some of the specs are in game, there can potentially be a high skill ceiling for someone to play well. Unfortunately, you can get through much of the game simply button mashing, so while the potential to find some interesting ways of using your skills is there, most of the game doesn't require it.
Just so you know, I felt the same way half way through leveling my character and am still wishing there was a way to customize weapon skills, but I found that I enjoy playing GW2 for other reasons so I am still playing. It's just not where I get my "progression" fix.
GW2 is very good game, but there is absolutely no reason to play it. No progression. You can reach lvl 80 in 3 days. And then there is absolutely no progression. No new skills , no better equipment...nothing - Only thing you can continue playing for is cosmetic items
So the only reason you play MMOs is progress?
I play games because it's fun, not because the game bribes me.
As for no better equipment that is just rubbish. You might get lvled up to 80 when you enter WvW but beating someone in ascended gear with green lvl 31 rubbish takes extreme skill.
One of the reasons I play mmoRPGs is progress. From pnp to crpgs character progression was always one on the core pillars of the genre.
There is merit to games with little to no progression, I mean people are playing and enjoying CounterStrike and the likes but as you can see in the recent years even games like CoD and Battlefield introduced rpg elements (levels, unlocks, perks) simply because people like them. They give a sense of accomplishment, a target to "work" towards, a carrot on a stick if you like. Ultimately, they make people come back.
It's perfectly ok to like a MMO game with minimal progression like GW2, but personally I prefer MMORPGs.
Nope, character progression was never pillar, it was side dish.
Only MMOs tried to define RPG as character progression because they werent RPGs and had nothing else but character progression.
MMOs were NEVER RPGs.
Ummm since D&D progression was a pillar of RPGs. GW2 is the only mmo(rpg) that believes it's a bad thing... I love character development, not just gear, but skills and combinations of skills. This has been a thing since rpgs were rpgs man.
edit- mmos were never rpgs? wut? O.o
Nope, STORY is pillar of RPG and D&D, CHOICE is pillar of RPG and D&D, stats are just means AND you can do without stats alltogether. In fact you can do without combat alltogether. Combat is NOT requirement for RPG. Stats are NOT requirement for RPG. NEITHER of those are pillars of RPG, stats are just tools, convenience.
If youre still confused, and need PRACTICAL proof, just look at disaster that was 4e (shortest lived e in D&D history) which went you route. And, not by coincedence, people like me were right once again. 5e, otoh, tried to rectify that.
You dont love RPG, you love seeing bigger and bigger numbrz. And thats ALL MMOs were offering. And GW2 doesnt so theres a short circuit to conditioned people.
GW2/SWTOR/ESO have actually more RPGs than any MMO (sans few honorable exceptions like ultima/SWG) before. Its still far far away from RPG, but at least they did some effort, opposed to "old school" which was particularly bad, EQ was barren game with only stats and bigger and bigger numbrz and nothing else. Just mobs sprinkled against scenery to be farmed and endless grinds in service of payment model. And WoW built on and perfected that.
MMOs are as much RPGs as shooters. Theyre their own genre that borrowed irrelevant mechanical thingy from RPG.
Unfortunately, this discussion has been held, but on this forum memory span is on amoeba level.
EQ/WoW was a thing for a while. But even in WoW small minority actually did "character progresion" route (<5% in vanilla, and around that later). MMOs need to move away from that. And PROPERLY use "charcter progression" in service of story, or they will decline even more.
GW2 is best effort and it shows - most successful western MMO since WoW. And theres no contender to that to this day.
GW2 is very good game, but there is absolutely no reason to play it. No progression. You can reach lvl 80 in 3 days. And then there is absolutely no progression. No new skills , no better equipment...nothing - Only thing you can continue playing for is cosmetic items
So the only reason you play MMOs is progress?
I play games because it's fun, not because the game bribes me.
As for no better equipment that is just rubbish. You might get lvled up to 80 when you enter WvW but beating someone in ascended gear with green lvl 31 rubbish takes extreme skill.
One of the reasons I play mmoRPGs is progress. From pnp to crpgs character progression was always one on the core pillars of the genre.
There is merit to games with little to no progression, I mean people are playing and enjoying CounterStrike and the likes but as you can see in the recent years even games like CoD and Battlefield introduced rpg elements (levels, unlocks, perks) simply because people like them. They give a sense of accomplishment, a target to "work" towards, a carrot on a stick if you like. Ultimately, they make people come back.
It's perfectly ok to like a MMO game with minimal progression like GW2, but personally I prefer MMORPGs.
Nope, character progression was never pillar, it was side dish.
Only MMOs tried to define RPG as character progression because they werent RPGs and had nothing else but character progression.
MMOs were NEVER RPGs.
Ummm since D&D progression was a pillar of RPGs. GW2 is the only mmo(rpg) that believes it's a bad thing... I love character development, not just gear, but skills and combinations of skills. This has been a thing since rpgs were rpgs man.
edit- mmos were never rpgs? wut? O.o
Nope, STORY is pillar of RPG and D&D, CHOICE is pillar of RPG and D&D, stats are just means AND you can do without stats alltogether. In fact you can do without combat alltogether. Combat is NOT requirement for RPG. Stats are NOT requirement for RPG. NEITHER of those are pillars of RPG, stats are just tools, convenience.
If youre still confused, and need PRACTICAL proof, just look at disaster that was 4e (shortest lived e in D&D history) which went you route. And, not by coincedence, people like me were right once again. 5e, otoh, tried to rectify that.
You dont love RPG, you love seeing bigger and bigger numbrz. And thats ALL MMOs were offering. And GW2 doesnt so theres a short circuit to conditioned people.
GW2/SWTOR/ESO have actually more RPGs than any MMO (sans few honorable exceptions like ultima/SWG) before. Its still far far away from RPG, but at least they did some effort, opposed to "old school" which was particularly bad, EQ was barren game with only stats and bigger and bigger numbrz and nothing else. Just mobs sprinkled against scenery to be farmed and endless grinds in service of payment model. And WoW built on and perfected that.
MMOs are as much RPGs as shooters. Theyre their own genre that borrowed irrelevant mechanical thingy from RPG.
Unfortunately, this discussion has been held, but on this forum memory span is on amoeba level.
EQ/WoW was a thing for a while. But even in WoW small minority actually did "character progresion" route (<5% in vanilla, and around that later). MMOs need to move away from that. And PROPERLY use "charcter progression" in service of story, or they will decline even more.
GW2 is best effort and it shows - most successful western MMO since WoW. And theres no contender to that to this day.
I am all for guild wars 2 but you have no idea what dnd is, dnd is literally based around building characters stats and more the very first dnd was based on tolkeins work look it up, yes campaigns are a big part of it, but you have no idea what you are talking about when you say rpgs do not need more then story and are rpgs without the key elements of an rpg.
That is like me saying an adventure game is an adventure game with pure story and no climbing, action, or any character movement at all. And I played eq a little bit after its start and you are wrong, eq was about the journey not the endgame, you could raid for your epic weapons but most people did that and rerolled, the game was based around group mechanics not solo.
OP not every game is for everyone. Just because Guild wars 2 is an MMORPG doesn't mean it is an MMORPG for you. After Aion I accepted that I don't hate myself enough to bother with stat based progression, you obviously like it and that is fine.
Guild wars 2 was created with the belief that you never have to chase the carot on the stick. Obviously,they deviated a little from that ideal but it still holds mostly.
So OP, you do not enjoy guild wars 2 and you know what? That is perfectly OK. Not every game is for everyone. Don't hold it against a game because you did not bother to research the fact that power progression is extremely limited.
Fine something that brings you enjoyment whether it is WOW or FF14. I have played guild wars 2 for 2220 hours and the lack of progression isn't affecting me. But I am me and you are you and so fine what makes you happy.
I am all for guild wars 2 but you have no idea what dnd is, dnd is literally based around building characters stats and more the very first dnd was based on tolkeins work look it up, yes campaigns are a big part of it, but you have no idea what you are talking about when you say rpgs do not need more then story and are rpgs without the key elements of an rpg.
That is like me saying an adventure game is an adventure game with pure story and no climbing, action, or any character movement at all. And I played eq a little bit after its start and you are wrong, eq was about the journey not the endgame, you could raid for your epic weapons but most people did that and rerolled, the game was based around group mechanics not solo.
rofl
By this time im convinced you didnt read what you quoted.
Why I quit as well. The game basically ends at level 30 unless you like spamming the same 5 skills for 50 more levels and then beyond. Riveting isn't it?
GW2 is very good game, but there is absolutely no reason to play it. No progression.
You can reach lvl 80 in 3 days. And then there is absolutely no progression. No new skills , no better equipment...nothing - Only thing you can continue playing for is cosmetic items
You can PvP like structured pvp and wvwvw? Complete your story, explore the new season content, can explore the zones, do jumping puzzles, do fractals, achievements, vanity/costumes.
Soon you will be able to work on your masteries and GvG!
Dare I ask what is there to do in other MMORPGs? Except raiding. Don't give me raiding please cause for me that's the definition of no life-ing a game and doing the most boring repetitive thing known to man kind for gear which will be worthless in a month anyway.
Right, or you can do the same thing over and over and get absolutely nothing for it (PvP). Wonderful choices!
Why I quit as well. The game basically ends at level 30 unless you like spamming the same 5 skills for 50 more levels and then beyond. Riveting isn't it?
There are weapon swaps, you have more than just 5 skills in a rotation on every class in gw2, some classes like elementalists have 20 skills.
Why I quit as well. The game basically ends at level 30 unless you like spamming the same 5 skills for 50 more levels and then beyond. Riveting isn't it?
There are weapon swaps, you have more than just 5 skills in a rotation on every class in gw2, some classes like elementalists have 20 skills.
What about unlocking elites/utility skills and and your specs? In wow you literally unlike the same skills over and over again with hardly any change except the few you get in your late levels and some from your skill tree.
I am all for guild wars 2 but you have no idea what dnd is, dnd is literally based around building characters stats and more the very first dnd was based on tolkeins work look it up, yes campaigns are a big part of it, but you have no idea what you are talking about when you say rpgs do not need more then story and are rpgs without the key elements of an rpg.
That is like me saying an adventure game is an adventure game with pure story and no climbing, action, or any character movement at all. And I played eq a little bit after its start and you are wrong, eq was about the journey not the endgame, you could raid for your epic weapons but most people did that and rerolled, the game was based around group mechanics not solo.
rofl
By this time im convinced you didnt read what you quoted.
I did your literally saying that the character building, and leveling elements do not matter in an rpg or dnd in which they do.
Past 2 afternoons and evenings i've been looking for a non level 80 group to do story mode instances and none pop up. The ones that do pop are either 80 only or substantially higher level req.
If you advertise for a group yourself and put something like "lowbie, watching cutscenes, taking anyone" as the title, your group will be filled within two minutes. Seriously, try it. You might even get a couple of vets who will teach you about the fights.
sPvP is 100% the most rewarding thing to do in GW2. I've got two characters to level 80 just from using the level up books I got using my warrior in sPvP... not to mention full dungeon armor sets, a ton of gold and countless other things like crafting materials, transmutation charges, luck and exotics... even a few ascended items.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
I agree with the last few points. I have been playing since launch but have just recently (1 month ago) started playing the sPVP and I am having a blast. I didn't realize how much fun it could be. I have gotten more ascended pieces of gear, an ascended loot box I haven't even opened yet, mats, armor, etc... And to top it off, the balance appears to be pretty good. I havent ran into any class that I feel I shouldn't bother engaging. I have run into a few good players that have made me look up what build they could be running to determine some counters but that is about it. It's been a blast.
Comments
As other comments have pointed out there is no clear cut progression, nothing saying you must do anything. You can just log in and enjoy a few hours with friends, and go back to life or other games. This is what Arena Net preached when they launched, and it still holds true.
Some players are just so used to having a clear cut way of doing it, they expect it in every game. I've played through them all as well, EQ, Daoc, Shadowbane, WoW, Warhammer, Aion, FFXIV launch, and ARR, Rift, Archeage; and countless smaller titles in between. I know what other games have offered. GW2 has just as much to offer, but unlike some of those other titles which can be gone through solo, gw2 falls a bit short in some areas. The thing that most of those other titles have in common is, clear cut tasks given to you by the game, GW2 doesn't really have this. It focuses on things you can do, rather than what you need to do. The style of progression isn't for everyone, but it's there in abundance if you want it. Same with the fun.
I don't really know anyone who will claim that GW2 is a perfect game, nor for everyone. However, the game to this day gets demonized and criticized for things based on misinformation.
What a lot of people fail to understand about this game are the intentions it has with it's design, and the types of gameplay this game caters to.
The status quo for MMORPGs, for more than a decade, have been games based around chasing better and better gear (which invalidates your previous gear). We've also had games based around more and more linear gameplay (ever since WoW).
The problem is, that while a lot of people like this type of gameplay (and indeed many are hooked on it), there are a good amount of people who are tired of it. They like having more freedom in their games, and that's what GW2 offers a ton of. You have the freedom to play as you want, but the cost of that freedom is that there isn't as much directed incentive to do any one thing. This is where most people miss the mark on this game.
OP if you only play a game to get new skills and aren't interested in the exploration, spvp, WvW, story, various dungeons, collectibles, crafting, finding people to group with, or discovering the intricacies of your class or the other classes then I am not sure if there is much GW2 has to offer you from here.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
I think it really has to do with your interests. If what drives you and motivates you in game is "progression", as in the gradual unlocking of more powerful or unique items and skill, then yes, GW2 doesn't have much to offer beyond level 31. Sure, you can unlock some more specs or get some slightly more powerful gear, but that's tame compared to most other MMOs.
On the other hand, the way some of the specs are in game, there can potentially be a high skill ceiling for someone to play well. Unfortunately, you can get through much of the game simply button mashing, so while the potential to find some interesting ways of using your skills is there, most of the game doesn't require it.
Just so you know, I felt the same way half way through leveling my character and am still wishing there was a way to customize weapon skills, but I found that I enjoy playing GW2 for other reasons so I am still playing. It's just not where I get my "progression" fix.
If youre still confused, and need PRACTICAL proof, just look at disaster that was 4e (shortest lived e in D&D history) which went you route. And, not by coincedence, people like me were right once again. 5e, otoh, tried to rectify that.
You dont love RPG, you love seeing bigger and bigger numbrz. And thats ALL MMOs were offering. And GW2 doesnt so theres a short circuit to conditioned people.
GW2/SWTOR/ESO have actually more RPGs than any MMO (sans few honorable exceptions like ultima/SWG) before. Its still far far away from RPG, but at least they did some effort, opposed to "old school" which was particularly bad, EQ was barren game with only stats and bigger and bigger numbrz and nothing else. Just mobs sprinkled against scenery to be farmed and endless grinds in service of payment model. And WoW built on and perfected that.
MMOs are as much RPGs as shooters. Theyre their own genre that borrowed irrelevant mechanical thingy from RPG.
Unfortunately, this discussion has been held, but on this forum memory span is on amoeba level.
EQ/WoW was a thing for a while. But even in WoW small minority actually did "character progresion" route (<5% in vanilla, and around that later). MMOs need to move away from that. And PROPERLY use "charcter progression" in service of story, or they will decline even more.
GW2 is best effort and it shows - most successful western MMO since WoW. And theres no contender to that to this day.
That is like me saying an adventure game is an adventure game with pure story and no climbing, action, or any character movement at all. And I played eq a little bit after its start and you are wrong, eq was about the journey not the endgame, you could raid for your epic weapons but most people did that and rerolled, the game was based around group mechanics not solo.
Guild wars 2 was created with the belief that you never have to chase the carot on the stick. Obviously,they deviated a little from that ideal but it still holds mostly.
So OP, you do not enjoy guild wars 2 and you know what? That is perfectly OK. Not every game is for everyone. Don't hold it against a game because you did not bother to research the fact that power progression is extremely limited.
Fine something that brings you enjoyment whether it is WOW or FF14. I have played guild wars 2 for 2220 hours and the lack of progression isn't affecting me. But I am me and you are you and so fine what makes you happy.
By this time im convinced you didnt read what you quoted.
Right, or you can do the same thing over and over and get absolutely nothing for it (PvP). Wonderful choices!
Not to mention gear, and more gold to convert for gems for stuff in the cash shop.