I like the rock, paper, scissors system in MMORPG classes. I can see the argument against it for sportsman competition.
One that I play has a couple OP heroes. It's not a secret. It's all about levels and outside gained advantage. They call it an RPG-MOBA hybrid, but from what I've learned today, it's not very MOBA like.
I seldom get opportunity to have human conversation with someone well informed.
Can you throw me a yes / no at this? I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but oblige me if you will.
"for me the point of PVP is skillful competition" Is that a significantly different player mindset than "gear up and splatter the noobs" ???
Thanks again.
Rock/paper/scissors classes actually can work great in PVP games, but it's similar to the progression thing. It's reliant on whether decisions (ie skill) can be used to adapt mid-match.
In TF2 if I die to a Pyro I have the option of switching classes to Heavy (which soft-counters Pyro). I'll do this if I'm smart (assuming countering the Pyro is more important than the reasons I was playing my previous class.)
In MMORPGs if I die to a Mage as a Warrior I don't have any options really. For the rest of the match I'm stuck either dying or avoiding the Mage and no amount of skill (decisions) can change that. The match might be over the moment it started, making the entire ordeal just a waste of time.
So for class design, my personal preference is that you can adapt mid-fight somehow. (Doesn't have to be class-switching; maybe I can simply respec my Warrior to a Mage-Slayer spec during the respawn.)
If "gear up" means gaining progression outside of a match that causes the match itself to be a dull, one-sided slaughter, then no I don't enjoy that.
However "gear up" could just as easily refer to pre-battle strategy planning, which I enjoy (ie setting up LoL talents that synergize well with each role I might play in the match.) And slaughtering noobs tends to happen in most games, though I only enjoy it in limited amounts (sometimes it's nice to have a feel-good match, but most of the time I want a tough epic back-and-forth fight where both sides get really good hits in and it comes down to the wire.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Twinking is a form of over compensating. It is truly sad that certain players feel the need to twink in order to feel superior to new players just trying to learn and level. Anyone who twinks in my opinion should be shot and killed. It could be the saddest practice I've ever encountered in mmorpg's. Usually the worst players twink because they feel inadequate at their normal level.
Twinking is a form of over compensating. It is truly sad that certain players feel the need to twink in order to feel superior to new players just trying to learn and level. Anyone who twinks in my opinion should be shot and killed. It could be the saddest practice I've ever encountered in mmorpg's. Usually the worst players twink because they feel inadequate at their normal level.
Why blame players if it's the game's fault?
Players can't be blamed for seeking the strongest path to victory (in fact that's exactly what they should be doing, as long as it's within the game's rules.) But the game can be blamed if the strongest path to victory results in consistently bad matches.
Post edited by Axehilt on
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
If "gear up" means gaining progression outside of a match that causes the match itself to be a dull, one-sided slaughter, then no I don't enjoy that.
*BIG GRIN*
I think what one might run into is that the twink gear advantages sort of cancel each other out when paired up against other twinks. At that point, there is some sportsmanship.
But I'd imagine one sided slaughter is a big factor.
Awesome info, thanks for sharing.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I've never even heard of twinking ever being associated with MOBAs or pvp. The first time I heard the term was in EQ, probably '99 or 2000. Twinking had nothing to do with pvp, it was just a term for a player that had better than average gear (a tank with full bronze plate and a "neeto" sword. Was kind of surprised that this was brought up regarding MOBAs. I must be getting old.
'Twinks' for both mass pvp and duels were very popular concept in Anarchy Online, and that was looong before TBC.
[edit] Now that I think about it it was important also outside of PvP. At the very beginning it was not obligatory, but very helpful in solo and team PvE. Unfortunately few years later it turned AO into a math-game where single skill point spend on "wrong skill" was considered character breaking. So as much as I liked the concept of "fine tuning" a character, I hate the result.
'Twinks' for both mass pvp and duels were very popular concept in Anarchy Online, and that was looong before TBC.
[edit] Now that I think about it it was important also outside of PvP. At the very beginning it was not obligatory, but very helpful in solo and team PvE. Unfortunately few years later it turned AO into a math-game where single skill point spend on "wrong skill" was considered character breaking. So as much as I liked the concept of "fine tuning" a character, I hate the result.
I understand what you are saying, and yeah that would be no good. My personal experience, and one I hope to enjoy again, didn't have much to do with base stats so much. It was more, the gear was solid (provided no bonus stats), was craft-able, trade-able, and not that god awful "bind on equip/loot" crap that is going on now a days. I honestly miss being able to "twink" a new toon.
Comments
- In TF2 if I die to a Pyro I have the option of switching classes to Heavy (which soft-counters Pyro). I'll do this if I'm smart (assuming countering the Pyro is more important than the reasons I was playing my previous class.)
- In MMORPGs if I die to a Mage as a Warrior I don't have any options really. For the rest of the match I'm stuck either dying or avoiding the Mage and no amount of skill (decisions) can change that. The match might be over the moment it started, making the entire ordeal just a waste of time.
So for class design, my personal preference is that you can adapt mid-fight somehow. (Doesn't have to be class-switching; maybe I can simply respec my Warrior to a Mage-Slayer spec during the respawn.)If "gear up" means gaining progression outside of a match that causes the match itself to be a dull, one-sided slaughter, then no I don't enjoy that.
However "gear up" could just as easily refer to pre-battle strategy planning, which I enjoy (ie setting up LoL talents that synergize well with each role I might play in the match.) And slaughtering noobs tends to happen in most games, though I only enjoy it in limited amounts (sometimes it's nice to have a feel-good match, but most of the time I want a tough epic back-and-forth fight where both sides get really good hits in and it comes down to the wire.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Players can't be blamed for seeking the strongest path to victory (in fact that's exactly what they should be doing, as long as it's within the game's rules.) But the game can be blamed if the strongest path to victory results in consistently bad matches.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
*BIG GRIN*
I think what one might run into is that the twink gear advantages sort of cancel each other out when paired up against other twinks. At that point, there is some sportsmanship.
But I'd imagine one sided slaughter is a big factor.
Awesome info, thanks for sharing.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
[edit]
Now that I think about it it was important also outside of PvP. At the very beginning it was not obligatory, but very helpful in solo and team PvE. Unfortunately few years later it turned AO into a math-game where single skill point spend on "wrong skill" was considered character breaking.
So as much as I liked the concept of "fine tuning" a character, I hate the result.