I ALWAYS pay my way in life, and that goes for my entertainment as well.
You never watch broadcast tv?
You can't just turn on the tv and bam you have broadcast tv. You need to go buy an antenna in order to watch it...nothing is free in life. I really hope an mmorpg website has to teach you this valuable life lesson.
I ALWAYS pay my way in life, and that goes for my entertainment as well.
You never watch broadcast tv?
You can't just turn on the tv and bam you have broadcast tv. You need to go buy an antenna in order to watch it...nothing is free in life. I really hope an mmorpg website has to teach you this valuable life lesson.
You don't pay the companies that produce the programming, do you?
I ALWAYS pay my way in life, and that goes for my entertainment as well.
You never watch broadcast tv?
You can't just turn on the tv and bam you have broadcast tv. You need to go buy an antenna in order to watch it...nothing is free in life. I really hope an mmorpg website has to teach you this valuable life lesson.
Lets start with the simple stuff. Did you pay for your account here? Do you pay them for the site?
Most of the web works on the F2P model, the same applies to most television. If you are seeing ads, then you didnt pay your way.
I ALWAYS pay my way in life, and that goes for my entertainment as well.
You never watch broadcast tv?
You can't just turn on the tv and bam you have broadcast tv. You need to go buy an antenna in order to watch it...nothing is free in life. I really hope an mmorpg website has to teach you this valuable life lesson.
Lets start with the simple stuff. Did you pay for your account here? Do you pay them for the site?
Most of the web works on the F2P model, the same applies to most television. If you are seeing ads, then you didnt pay your way.
I want to add that the notion that nothing is free .. is old fashion and does NOT apply to everything in a modern society anymore.
For example, information used to be very expensive (you have to pay to get a stock price ticker installed in your office). Now information is free much of the time ... when is the last time you have to pay to check stock price of a company?
Somewhere, in a similar thread, I pointed out that inflation has increased prices of TV, Movies and other entertainment products by about 90-110% since a baseline of 2000. Given a similar rate of increase, would it really be unreasonable to expect games to have jumped from $15 to $30 in the same time?
And let's not hail the Subscription model as the end-all, be-all of business revenue generation. Look what is happening with newspapers and periodicals. It's not sustainable; as the cost of production increases, the revenue stream must increase proportionally to maintain the same profit level.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
15 years ago sub based games cost c. $10. This paid for the online connection only; new content was paid for.
People "accepted" that network stuff was expensive: the connection, servers, server techs etc. Search engines were not free to put things into perspective. How much would you pay for a "good" search engine with no ads? Same deal in many ways.
Network costs fell. People grumbled. NCSoft had a brainwave and decided to offer "included content" - well tbh AC was already doing this but NCSoft made a big thing of offering big content patches. That quietened things down for a while. Then NCSoft launched GW1; truly demonstrating that the sub was no longer needed for the original purpose.
Fast forward and Blizzard have absolutely demonstrated that a sub guarantees nothing. It is also - potentially - bad news for companies. They spend money on patch after patch and once in a blue moon the subscription freeloaders get onboard and play through a few years worth of patches for the price of a sub. Subscription freeloaders! And the other problem they have: people zerg content and leave.
So my preference these days is not to sub but to buy the content. And the mantra is simple: no content, no money; the flip side being no money, no content. And if you stop and think about it this is how most of the economy works. You don't pay a shop every month and hope they have something on the shelves when you go in. You don't pay Ford money so that their designer can develop and build the car you might buy in a few years time.
Kinda took the words out of my mouth.
I used to be pro-subscription for different reasons, but what Gervaise1 wrote perfectly sums up my opinion on this topic.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
If I like a game I will pay for it. Don't really care if it's F2P, B2P or sub. Whatever is best for the game is what they should go with. I usually pay about a sub's worth per month in shop monetized games too, so which system the game uses is irrelevant in terms of costs for me. (obviously the monetization methods have side effects, but that's a different topic, I sidelined it here with "if I like a game") In the end you pay anyway, if not with your wallet then with quality.
How much would you be willing to spend on a 'good' subscription based game?
Or do you think most new MMO's should use the free to play models and why?
I've had this exact conversation with thousands of Gamers and the answer mirrors my own.
A: As much as it takes. ($$)
As you grow older, you discern more and know your personal worth and the value of time and hard work acquiring the dollar. You become a consumer and have demands, singly and as a collective. Now since the market has matured (even those 14 year olds playing WoW in 2015 are now pushing 25 years of age!!) these same people now have collectively, more buying power than they did back then. Their own worth and value has gone up since back then.
Most are in the mid 30s or older now.
They want better worlds and full crafting and a challenge. whatever that is, is fine. As much as it takes.
To me, I have zero probs with a $30/month game. But me and my friends have discussed $50/month ($600/year) games too. These will be the real premium games in the next 15 years. Ones that have incredible crafting and well told worlds to get lost in.
I think subscription are going to solidify these new worlds. I see some being $4.99, while others being $21.99, etc to subscribe to.
I ALWAYS pay my way in life, and that goes for my entertainment as well.
You never watch broadcast tv?
You can't just turn on the tv and bam you have broadcast tv. You need to go buy an antenna in order to watch it...nothing is free in life. I really hope an mmorpg website has to teach you this valuable life lesson.
Lets start with the simple stuff. Did you pay for your account here? Do you pay them for the site?
Most of the web works on the F2P model, the same applies to most television. If you are seeing ads, then you didnt pay your way.
I want to add that the notion that nothing is free .. is old fashion and does NOT apply to everything in a modern society anymore.
For example, information used to be very expensive (you have to pay to get a stock price ticker installed in your office). Now information is free much of the time ... when is the last time you have to pay to check stock price of a company?
In the old days you had to pay for a paper today you pay for the Internet for that info or some speciality cable station you paid for. As for the network tv you pay to for the electricity to turn that tv on, you paid for that tv.
No the notion appears to be gone in society because today's generations is spoiled with this entitlement mentality and showered with participation trophies.
Somewhere, in a similar thread, I pointed out that inflation has increased prices of TV, Movies and other entertainment products by about 90-110% since a baseline of 2000. Given a similar rate of increase, would it really be unreasonable to expect games to have jumped from $15 to $30 in the same time?
Yes .. because everything has a different supply and demand. For example, music does not cost as much as before for obvious reasons.
There is no increase price of tv shows (at least the broadcast ones) ... they are free.
Somewhere, in a similar thread, I pointed out that inflation has increased prices of TV, Movies and other entertainment products by about 90-110% since a baseline of 2000. Given a similar rate of increase, would it really be unreasonable to expect games to have jumped from $15 to $30 in the same time?
Yes .. because everything has a different supply and demand. For example, music does not cost as much as before for obvious reasons.
There is no increase price of tv shows (at least the broadcast ones) ... they are free.
Unless you power the TV with the electrical signals running through your body it ain't free.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Somewhere, in a similar thread, I pointed out that inflation has increased prices of TV, Movies and other entertainment products by about 90-110% since a baseline of 2000. Given a similar rate of increase, would it really be unreasonable to expect games to have jumped from $15 to $30 in the same time?
Yes .. because everything has a different supply and demand. For example, music does not cost as much as before for obvious reasons.
There is no increase price of tv shows (at least the broadcast ones) ... they are free.
Correction: Some music... does not cost as much as before.
Also, Today's music is typically sold with less fidelity & clarity than in the past. Mediocrity is mainstream. In a subscription based MMORPG, people are not typically looking for mediocrity.
I don't mind subs; I've still got an active EQ one, although not played for ages and no plans to. I'd sooner pay a sub then have a p2p system; or at least a p2p that offers a faster route to cap, or the only way to cap.
All the best mmos I have played are b2p or f2p (or ended up that way and remained good or got better). Subs seem like a rip off to me- especially if they are paired with having to buy the game and expansions.
I still play sub games from time to time, although I haven't yet found any that justify the price (every one I have played so far is worse than the b2p/ f2p games I play). I would probably feel better about it if the sub price was $10 or less a month; I hope CU isn't going to be asking for more than $15/month or else I'll have to skip it (even though it looks like it will be epic).
I like the feeling you get when you are contributing to a game you are enjoyinh and feel more engaged when I pay a sub (or the other way around). So I don't mind paying a sub. at th mo I pay for eso and wildstar, bu sometimes I stop my sub if something really pisses me off and I want a break (looking at you my weapon swap lag). Modern pay methods and f2p give a lot of fle ability which is win. I wouldn't pay more than $30 a Monh across MMO unless something really cool popped up in a cash shop.
My only issue is people who get a lot of value out of a game and are financially able to contribute but pay nothing - they are th scourg of society.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
My only issue is people who get a lot of value out of a game and are financially able to contribute but pay nothing - they are th scourg of society.
lol .. really? If the dev allows their product to be used for free, what is your problem?
You have a problem of people using DVR to watch tv and "pay nothing" (not watching ads) too?
It is a free world .. i don't see a problem .. if the owner of the property (i.e. dev) don't want players to play for free, they can always go to a B2P or sub-only model.
I have such a charming and magnetic personality that they really should pay me to participate in their online world. In fact they owe me. These game developers are acting like a bunch of freeloaders taking advantage of my overwhelming good nature.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
My only issue is people who get a lot of value out of a game and are financially able to contribute but pay nothing - they are th scourg of society.
lol .. really? If the dev allows their product to be used for free, what is your problem?
You have a problem of people using DVR to watch tv and "pay nothing" (not watching ads) too?
It is a free world .. i don't see a problem .. if the owner of the property (i.e. dev) don't want players to play for free, they can always go to a B2P or sub-only model.
The problem is those who share your opinion expect to get everything (content) for free and will cry about the restrictions applied to them because they think they are entitled to get the same as those who pay.
My only issue is people who get a lot of value out of a game and are financially able to contribute but pay nothing - they are th scourg of society.
lol .. really? If the dev allows their product to be used for free, what is your problem? You have a problem of people using DVR to watch tv and "pay nothing" (not watching ads) too? It is a free world .. i don't see a problem .. if the owner of the property (i.e. dev) don't want players to play for free, they can always go to a B2P or sub-only model.
The problem is those who share your opinion expect to get everything (content) for free and will cry about the restrictions applied to them because they think they are entitled to get the same as those who pay.
There isn't a problem. That doesn't mean publishers are just going to give it away. They're going to leverage what they think will generate revenue.
It's just human nature for people to want and try to get more. It's no different for people who pay wanting or demanding more.
Exactly .. why is that a problem? People just whine, and dev choose to do whatever they want.
It is not like devs have to give in. In fact, don't some of you cry bloody murder of how devs are only focusing on cash shops? It is their freedom to do so, and yours to ignore them. There is no problem. You don't have to play a single f2p game, and devs don't have to give away a single thing they don't want to.
Yes & yes. You state the most obvious. But what you fail to encompass that free comes with a price. That at the same time you could be playing a game with a cost, that is much better than a game that is free.
Free is for those who can not pay, or will not pay.
Secondly, Developers are giving away their game for free, because it was not good enough to garner a pay model. People do not play free games, they try them and then move on.
We already know that less than 10% of the player base support these types game. There reason why they exist today is because 10% of 9 million WoW refugees is a big pool of whales. But those whales are mostly harpooned out of the sea. They only bite once and done.
Comments
and btw, air is free.
Most of the web works on the F2P model, the same applies to most television. If you are seeing ads, then you didnt pay your way.
For example, information used to be very expensive (you have to pay to get a stock price ticker installed in your office). Now information is free much of the time ... when is the last time you have to pay to check stock price of a company?
And let's not hail the Subscription model as the end-all, be-all of business revenue generation. Look what is happening with newspapers and periodicals. It's not sustainable; as the cost of production increases, the revenue stream must increase proportionally to maintain the same profit level.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I used to be pro-subscription for different reasons, but what Gervaise1 wrote perfectly sums up my opinion on this topic.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I usually pay about a sub's worth per month in shop monetized games too, so which system the game uses is irrelevant in terms of costs for me. (obviously the monetization methods have side effects, but that's a different topic, I sidelined it here with "if I like a game")
In the end you pay anyway, if not with your wallet then with quality.
I've had this exact conversation with thousands of Gamers and the answer mirrors my own.
A: As much as it takes. ($$)
As you grow older, you discern more and know your personal worth and the value of time and hard work acquiring the dollar. You become a consumer and have demands, singly and as a collective. Now since the market has matured (even those 14 year olds playing WoW in 2015 are now pushing 25 years of age!!) these same people now have collectively, more buying power than they did back then. Their own worth and value has gone up since back then.
Most are in the mid 30s or older now.
They want better worlds and full crafting and a challenge. whatever that is, is fine. As much as it takes.
To me, I have zero probs with a $30/month game. But me and my friends have discussed $50/month ($600/year) games too. These will be the real premium games in the next 15 years. Ones that have incredible crafting and well told worlds to get lost in.
I think subscription are going to solidify these new worlds. I see some being $4.99, while others being $21.99, etc to subscribe to.
No the notion appears to be gone in society because today's generations is spoiled with this entitlement mentality and showered with participation trophies.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
There is no increase price of tv shows (at least the broadcast ones) ... they are free.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Also, Today's music is typically sold with less fidelity & clarity than in the past. Mediocrity is mainstream. In a subscription based MMORPG, people are not typically looking for mediocrity.
I still play sub games from time to time, although I haven't yet found any that justify the price (every one I have played so far is worse than the b2p/ f2p games I play). I would probably feel better about it if the sub price was $10 or less a month; I hope CU isn't going to be asking for more than $15/month or else I'll have to skip it (even though it looks like it will be epic).
And really? We are talking about the content here ... the content is free, the power to run it .. is not. Can you tell the difference?
Free to play. Unless it has demo
My only issue is people who get a lot of value out of a game and are financially able to contribute but pay nothing - they are th scourg of society.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
You have a problem of people using DVR to watch tv and "pay nothing" (not watching ads) too?
It is a free world .. i don't see a problem .. if the owner of the property (i.e. dev) don't want players to play for free, they can always go to a B2P or sub-only model.
I have such a charming and magnetic personality that they really should pay me to participate in their online world. In fact they owe me. These game developers are acting like a bunch of freeloaders taking advantage of my overwhelming good nature.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
It is not like devs have to give in. In fact, don't some of you cry bloody murder of how devs are only focusing on cash shops? It is their freedom to do so, and yours to ignore them. There is no problem. You don't have to play a single f2p game, and devs don't have to give away a single thing they don't want to.
Yes & yes. You state the most obvious. But what you fail to encompass that free comes with a price. That at the same time you could be playing a game with a cost, that is much better than a game that is free.
Free is for those who can not pay, or will not pay.
Secondly, Developers are giving away their game for free, because it was not good enough to garner a pay model. People do not play free games, they try them and then move on.
We already know that less than 10% of the player base support these types game. There reason why they exist today is because 10% of 9 million WoW refugees is a big pool of whales. But those whales are mostly harpooned out of the sea. They only bite once and done.