I'm not a very skilled player in most games, so you'll often ffind me playing PvP only when It's very basic or when It's with a large amount of players.
I'll have a blast in WoW's alterac valley, but I'll hate It's warsong gulch.
Similarly, recently Jagex ( Creator of Runescape ) released Darkscape with open world PvP, and because there are no extensive abilities or combat tricks to learn, i find myself enjoying PvP there a lot as well.
Yes, I pvp all the time. It's my main activity in any MMORPG that I play. I can't imagine playing an MMORPG without pvp'ing--most other content puts me to sleep after a while.
They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair. Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D Play EVE for free for 21 days
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
something I find as an irony. people wail and gnash their teeth demanding non-zerg pvp, while in the same breath, lauding dark age of camelot as "perfect PVP".
Hate to say it, but if you were fighting albies, or worse, if you -were- albies, you partook in zerg pvp
Sure you COULD have, but most of my PvP in DAoC was in a single roaming group. Either we would port to the enemy frontier and roam the countryside or maybe we would go through Darkness Falls. Then there was always Thid or Molvik...
Sure if you wanted to contest a Keep it would be army vs army, but that is how it should be.. you were fighting for a freaking Keep!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
No I do not PVP to me it is boring and just the SOS over and over. As far as it being end game ..... well it's a shame that it is becoming the go to end game for a lot of mmo's... It is easy for the Dev's to do because all the have to do is make a map with a few point to cap and may be a lord to kill and thats it! No story line to write and no new ideas for the game....... It's sad really when you think of it...
PvP needs to be built into the game from day one but also be constructed in a way that allows folks a break. DAoC was perfect for this. I have yet to see a game that integrated PvP so well, yet still allowed those who preferred to focus on PvE to do so.
Go Hibs!!
^This.
I don't understand why more developers haven't taken lessons from DAoC. Most games I don't do PvP in. I just prefer PvE. But DAoC did PvP right.
Even PVE in MMO is another kind of PVP . Of course , only in true MMO . KS also one kind of PVP in PVE . You don't need to kill player to PVP , you fight and win , that is PVP .
No I don't. And I won't either. I don't like the nasty behavior of many pvp'rs who make it their life to try to make everyone else miserable. They can't just play the game to play the game.
I do , but only for small stretches at a time. Then the people start to get to me so I turn off chat, and eventually tire of it all together, especially if there isn't any real point or accomplishments to be had. Chaotic arena battles can be fun as well, as there (usually) isn't to much at stake and its more about honing skills and such.
No I do not PVP to me it is boring and just the SOS over and over...
That's a much better description of PVE than PVP.
They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair. Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D Play EVE for free for 21 days
No I do not PVP to me it is boring and just the SOS over and over...
That's a much better description of PVE than PVP.
Not really. At least in PvE there might be some visual variety. In PvP there is no real visual variety (all player characters pretty much look alike when you're zoomed out) and there are only three types of opponents: overpowered ones (due to skill, gear, level or numbers) who ROFLSTOMP you, underpowered ones (due to lack of skill, gear, level or numbers) whom you ROFLSTOMP, and the few competent challenging ones who always do the exact same optimal actions for their class. So either you die quickly without being able to do anything about it, kill quickly without having to break a sweat or fight a challenging opponent whose actions are, if anything, even more predictable than an NPC's AI.
I honestly can't think of *any* MMO activity that bores me more than PvP.
I dislike PvP now that I am a LOT more mature, and prefer dungeon crawling. Too many people complain about nothing to do when they hit the lvl cap even though they rushed to it knowing there was nothing else to do. Plus too many Kiddies complain that the PvP is unbalanced in almost ALL MMORPG's out there. My answer to their complaints is to tell them to learn the other classes or stop complaining.
No I do not PVP to me it is boring and just the SOS over and over...
That's a much better description of PVE than PVP.
Not really......So either you die quickly without being able to do anything about it, kill quickly without having to break a sweat or fight a challenging opponent whose actions are, if anything, even more predictable than an NPC's AI...
You and I play PvP quite...differently. Your experience is the opposite of mine, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.
And you really, really lost me when you claimed that players' actions are more predictable than NPC AI.
They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair. Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D Play EVE for free for 21 days
As a genre MMORPG's just don't support PvP all that well. When you look at the roots of the genre, table top D&D and similar games, there was no PvP in those P&P games. MMO's should stick to what they do best, group PvE content, and leave the PvP for the MOBA and FPS market.
This. I'm saying the very same all the time when the annual pvp topic pops up its head
Som, "Do you PvP? What are some of your favorite PvP modes in MMOs?": I do pvp. Do it all the time in board games, TCGs, turn-based strategies, and in shooters. Especially in shooters... man, I loved my CS years But. Rpg is not the place for pvp. As @jmcdermottuk said, the very foundation of D&D was to turn the back on the truckloads of competitive games and create a cooperative one, where the goal is playing together, and not against each other.
I work with someone who thinks that there's no point to adding toppings (pepperoni, sausage etc..) to pizza, any other topping other than cheese ruins the pizza. This person is who I think of when I see comments like the ones that are quoted above. Not that theres anything wrong with not having toppings, it's just a very limited way of thinking when you think about all the things that could be done with pizza.
D and D did a good job of getting people working together against a common enemy. I don't know why that can be done in a MMORPG in a PvP setting. I think it shows a little bit of bias to shine the light on PvP aspect and not shed any light on the issue of challenge (meaning the lack of challenge) that was actually present in old school tabletops.
Players ask for continuous PvE content (which is expensive) however, it can't be too hard or they will quit and go to another game. To add insult to injury, players would also want this game free to play lol. Why wouldn't the dev's add PvP as their end game? It's a smart move financially speaking.
I like for there to be the possibility of PvP, without it being predictable, and I like to risk just enough for it to hurt but not so much that it really delays my ability to jump back in.
I found the best balance of that to be in EvE Online. But, any game that has zone based, action caused and voluntary flagging PvP to be my favorites. Of course, a decent amount of player looting, at or near Full Loot is preferred.
I never like(d) games that through some twisting of logic, claim to be PvP focused, but then attach a penalty for PvPing often. I've used the analogy for years now, "like a cop handing out speeding tickets on a NASCAR track."
For some games, consent to PvP is logging on. If that seems forced to you, it is not the game for you.... Move along!
Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....
Personally I believe "flagging" is the bane of PvP. Again, I believe DAoC got it right here. certain areas are PvP enabled. If you are in there you are attackable by the enemy. Game should be designed so that you WANT to go there, but do not HAVE to go there.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Personally I believe "flagging" is the bane of PvP. Again, I believe DAoC got it right here. certain areas are PvP enabled. If you are in there you are attackable by the enemy. Game should be designed so that you WANT to go there, but do not HAVE to go there.
I have seen voluntary flagging work well in two MMOs, Star Wars Galaxies and Fallen Earth. Especially in Fallen Earth, where flagging became part of the social fabric of the faction based culture.
Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....
Never liked PvP, never got involved with PvP, never had any interest in PvP and if attacked in an open world game I would stand there until killed.
Nope, I don't PvP and never will as I find it a pointless function and a waste of my time. I prefer adventuring, doing quests and exploring dungeons as they are far more interesting.
PvP is nothing but two or more people smacking each other with nothing to be gained from it; aside from bragging rights I suppose.
Personally I believe "flagging" is the bane of PvP. Again, I believe DAoC got it right here. certain areas are PvP enabled. If you are in there you are attackable by the enemy. Game should be designed so that you WANT to go there, but do not HAVE to go there.
I have seen voluntary flagging work well in two MMOs, Star Wars Galaxies and Fallen Earth. Especially in Fallen Earth, where flagging became part of the social fabric of the faction based culture.
Absolutely HATED the flagging in Star Wars Galaxies. Nothing bothered me more than having some dude standing next to you that was an enemy 60 seconds prior, but because his "flag" changed you couldn't touch him.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The core of every MMO I've played is the "gear grind" which makes you stronger by accomplishing certain things, or swiping your credit card in many modern MMO's. For me, gear grind/card swiping and PvP doesn't work well together, I want PvP to be skill based and not gear based.
I did enjoy the PvP in Warhammer Online and I like the potential of PvP in a game like EvE, I just wish everyone involved had access to the same gear/ships in PvP without the "grind", in order to make skill the deciding factor. That's why I do most of my "PvP" in games like Quake, Counter Strike or Dota 2.
I don't mind the gear grind in PvE though, but ideally if the game was fun enough to play it wouldn't be needed there either.
I find it strange in a game like WoW for example where a raid has the least powerful gear the first time they do an encounter, then they keep repeating the same content they have already done while getting better and better gear. If I was going to repeat the same encounter over and over I would want more challenge each time, not less.
No I do not PVP to me it is boring and just the SOS over and over...
That's a much better description of PVE than PVP.
Not really......So either you die quickly without being able to do anything about it, kill quickly without having to break a sweat or fight a challenging opponent whose actions are, if anything, even more predictable than an NPC's AI...
You and I play PvP quite...differently. Your experience is the opposite of mine, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.
And you really, really lost me when you claimed that players' actions are more predictable than NPC AI.
*Competent* players' actions are more predictable than NPC AI in most MMOs. And incompetent players are irrelevant, so it doesn't really matter how unpredictable they are. Most MMO classes are set up so there is an optimal order in which to apply buffs, debuffs and crowd control. Once an MMO matures and the good players have learned what works and what doesn't, you can predict quite accurately what they'll do, when they'll apply CC, when they'll break CC or cleanse a DOT, etc.
This is based on my experiences in Dark Age of Camp-a-lot, Age of Conan, Rift and Neverwinter. I avoided PvP in all the other MMOs I played, since they generally had even more class and/or gear balance issues than the four I named.
No I do not PVP to me it is boring and just the SOS over and over...
That's a much better description of PVE than PVP.
Not really......So either you die quickly without being able to do anything about it, kill quickly without having to break a sweat or fight a challenging opponent whose actions are, if anything, even more predictable than an NPC's AI...
You and I play PvP quite...differently. Your experience is the opposite of mine, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.
And you really, really lost me when you claimed that players' actions are more predictable than NPC AI.
*Competent* players' actions are more predictable than NPC AI in most MMOs. And incompetent players are irrelevant, so it doesn't really matter how unpredictable they are. Most MMO classes are set up so there is an optimal order in which to apply buffs, debuffs and crowd control. Once an MMO matures and the good players have learned what works and what doesn't, you can predict quite accurately what they'll do, when they'll apply CC, when they'll break CC or cleanse a DOT, etc.
This is based on my experiences in Dark Age of Camp-a-lot, Age of Conan, Rift and Neverwinter. I avoided PvP in all the other MMOs I played, since they generally had even more class and/or gear balance issues than the four I named.
You could actually say the same thing about chess or any PvP game.
Personally I believe "flagging" is the bane of PvP. Again, I believe DAoC got it right here. certain areas are PvP enabled. If you are in there you are attackable by the enemy. Game should be designed so that you WANT to go there, but do not HAVE to go there.
I have seen voluntary flagging work well in two MMOs, Star Wars Galaxies and Fallen Earth. Especially in Fallen Earth, where flagging became part of the social fabric of the faction based culture.
Absolutely HATED the flagging in Star Wars Galaxies. Nothing bothered me more than having some dude standing next to you that was an enemy 60 seconds prior, but because his "flag" changed you couldn't touch him.
That's not voluntary flagging, that's flagging on a timer.
In Fallen Earth, for instance, we voluntarily flagged for PVP any time we were in a group of two or more. It was required by our Clan, and a person was subject to getting kicked for not following the rule.
Anyone caught not being PVP flagged when they "should" have been, including among our rivals, would be publicly (general chat) ridiculed and their clan would take on some of that humiliation as well.
There was an honor system involved, and it became part of the server social structure among the faction based clans.
Fallen Earth also had zone based PVP and FvF PvP over territory control.
I always preferred a mixed entry point for PVP, over just one kind (including PVP 24/7).
Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....
I never PvP. I get too competitive and I don't like the person I become. I am not against PvP in games I play as long as I can avoid it.
If I can't avoid it - I don't play
It seems to me that too many companies try to be all things to all people in their pursuit of profits. I don't blame them, but it has led to some crappy games in my opinion.
Comments
I'm not a very skilled player in most games, so you'll often ffind me playing PvP only when It's very basic or when It's with a large amount of players.
I'll have a blast in WoW's alterac valley, but I'll hate It's warsong gulch.
Similarly, recently Jagex ( Creator of Runescape ) released Darkscape with open world PvP, and because there are no extensive abilities or combat tricks to learn, i find myself enjoying PvP there a lot as well.
Save that, I'll always by heart be a PvE healer.
They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D
Play EVE for free for 21 days
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Sure if you wanted to contest a Keep it would be army vs army, but that is how it should be.. you were fighting for a freaking Keep!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D
Play EVE for free for 21 days
They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.
Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:D
Play EVE for free for 21 days
D and D did a good job of getting people working together against a common enemy. I don't know why that can be done in a MMORPG in a PvP setting. I think it shows a little bit of bias to shine the light on PvP aspect and not shed any light on the issue of challenge (meaning the lack of challenge) that was actually present in old school tabletops.
Players ask for continuous PvE content (which is expensive) however, it can't be too hard or they will quit and go to another game. To add insult to injury, players would also want this game free to play lol. Why wouldn't the dev's add PvP as their end game? It's a smart move financially speaking.
Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The core of every MMO I've played is the "gear grind" which makes you stronger by accomplishing certain things, or swiping your credit card in many modern MMO's. For me, gear grind/card swiping and PvP doesn't work well together, I want PvP to be skill based and not gear based.
I did enjoy the PvP in Warhammer Online and I like the potential of PvP in a game like EvE, I just wish everyone involved had access to the same gear/ships in PvP without the "grind", in order to make skill the deciding factor. That's why I do most of my "PvP" in games like Quake, Counter Strike or Dota 2.
I don't mind the gear grind in PvE though, but ideally if the game was fun enough to play it wouldn't be needed there either.
I find it strange in a game like WoW for example where a raid has the least powerful gear the first time they do an encounter, then they keep repeating the same content they have already done while getting better and better gear. If I was going to repeat the same encounter over and over I would want more challenge each time, not less.
Played: E&B, SWG, Eve, WoW, COH, WAR, POTBS, AOC, LOTRO, AUTO.A, AO, FE, TR, WWII, MWO, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, NWO, WoP, RUST, LIF, SOA, MORTAL, DFUW, AA, TF, PFO, ALBO, and many many others....
It seems to me that too many companies try to be all things to all people in their pursuit of profits. I don't blame them, but it has led to some crappy games in my opinion.