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Magiknight · April 2015

If anyone thought that FFXI was at its height during the COP expansion send me a PM.

Wizardry · April 2015

I am lost here,i feel it was at it's height during COP.Those were the days i had the most fun in any game.

I still try to play it a bit but my health has made me struggle to get much time in.It has changed a lot but the change is needed and imo even more change is needed.

I see some players still enjoying the game but most of the players i watch are sticking to one class and grinding end game level stuff.It is like every Thief feels they are not having enough fun unless they get Mandau.

It is fine to have goals in any aspect in life but if you force your self to grind stuff like that every single day you miss out on a lot of fun with other players.

Back in the COP era it was actually crazy fun and a challenge to win just the early 3 crag fights,let alone the tough battles that came after.

Rise of Zilart was a good expansion but the most fun aspect of the game has always been Besieged to me,even though i was not a huge fan of that expansion.

WontoonRoo · April 2015

I mostly agree with you there, as I did enjoy the storyline and content the in Chains of Promathia (as well as that sweet, sweet soundtrack). However I honestly thought Wings of the Goddess was the pinnacle of FFXI. My story is a bit weird here, since when I got the expansion I was nuts about the Campaign system. It was extremely fun and I wound up being close to maxing out the medal rank before I took a long break.

Later, I returned to finish up the story (from the mission "Purple, the New Black"). It reinforced my belief that WotG is the best expansion for FFXI. Though in the end, both CoP and WotG come REALLY close since they did what they do extremely well: CoP had surreal areas, an amazing story, and a re-imagining of "Sky" (Al'tieu), and a kickass soundtrack; while WotG was surreal in the fact that you visited another time, the Campaign system, and an amazing story.

Magiknight · April 2015

bump bump bump

Don't reply in this forum. Just send me a PM.

Deathofsage · October 2015

@Magiknight (name drop for forum points, lol)

Gonna reply here, and necro..

There was a lot of good about CoP days but there was A LOT more about CoP. There was practically no way to talk to the devs during those days. I remember in early WotG days when a dev signed up for an unofficial forum to unofficially comment on something related to Absolute Virtue (or maybe it was all a BG hoax, but if it was, they never gave it up).

In a lot of ways I think WotG was the peak of XI. That's the era that introduced level sync, expanded on adventuring fellows, and introduced Campaign. Campaign had its failings, but it was finally a way that people could exp by themselves at a decent rate even on the jobs noone liked. It also introduced Scholar and Dancer which were game changing. I made so much exp as sch/thf (Reraise, Accession->Cure 4 on an NPC and FLEE), but my pride was always in pld/dnc.

And XI has the honor of being a game that was so dependent on (illegal) third-party tools that people didn't bat an eye about talking about them, even sometimes on the later-created official forums. I've played several MMOs, and know there are always cheaters but usually the community regards these people with public disdain (even if they're 'tweaking' themselves).

nbtscan · October 2015

I know it's an old thread but I felt like commenting.

My experience with FFXI was kind of eye opening because it was the first MMO I played. I sadly never finished any of the main story for any of the expansions I played. (I did finish the city missions though) Maybe this was just me being a victim of being in a very relaxed linkshell, and as far as CoP goes I only got as far as the aqueducts while it was relevant.

CoP was difficult for people for a few reasons. The first was the fact you pretty much needed a static party of the six same people to get through it. If you lost a member you had to go and catch another person up which was a pain in the ass.

The second reason CoP was difficult was the fact that they went back and level capped this content after people were already level 70+. The first content in CoP was capped at level 30, meaning you had to have a set of gear for that level tier, and every other tier of capped content thereafter. Inventory space was limited in that game, meaning you'd have to purchase (at $1 a pop) extra characters just to store old gear and shuffle it around whenever you hit a new tier in the content.

The third reason, although not as severe as the other two but kind of does tie-in with the other two points, was the fact that you had to have multiple jobs leveled up to complete the content. The job system in FFXI encouraged leveling multiple things, but there were certain fights that required a pretty strict party setup and this commonly made it to where someone had to level something they didn't have leveled up already so the group could continue to progress through the content.

I had a lot of fond memories in FFXI, but I think most of them were based on the people I played with more so than the actual game itself. The story, what little bit of it I was able to complete, was good, but it was behind such wall of relying upon other people (which was the nature of the game I guess) that it was difficult to complete, I guess especially with people in my linkshell that weren't as motivated to complete content as others. Maybe had I been in a different situation I would have accomplished more in the game, but it was a pretty interesting experience as my first MMO. Not to point out anyone in particular, but unlike some people I was able to adapt and play other games instead of basing all of my future MMO decisions on the first one I played.

Pratt2112 · November 2015

Deathofsage said:

@Magiknight (name drop for forum points, lol)

In a lot of ways I think WotG was the peak of XI. That's the era that introduced level sync, expanded on adventuring fellows, and introduced Campaign. Campaign had its failings, but it was finally a way that people could exp by themselves at a decent rate even on the jobs noone liked. It also introduced Scholar and Dancer which were game changing. I made so much exp as sch/thf (Reraise, Accession->Cure 4 on an NPC and FLEE), but my pride was always in pld/dnc.

WoTG is when SE started taking the game in the wrong direction, away from being the kind of experience they'd consistently and demonstrably designed it to be.

The thing is, FFXI earned, and maintained the following that kept it at 500k players for so long, and became SE's most profitable title for so many years, because - not despite - being the kind of experience it was, as most strongly represented during the CoP era.

That it could be so unforgiving, demanded so much of its players, and relied so much on interaction and cooperation (warts and all) is the very thing that makes that period of FFXI so precious to so many, and the true pinnacle of its existence. It was at its best, because it embodied the kind of experience FFXI was intended to be, by design, and is what drew so many to it and kept them there in the first place; even while more streamlined and "accessible" MMOs blew up around it.

To many, WoTG is when SE started moving away from what made FFXI their home for so many years. And of course, Abyssea is when they lost the plot completely, and irreparably undermined what they'd spent almost a decade building. Even SE later admitted they'd screwed up and gone too far with Abyssea. They set about trying to correct the blunder, but that genie was already out of the bottle. They'd already lost most of the long-time, loyal players they'd earned and kept up through WoTG, while spoiling those who stuck around or came post-WoTG.

The people who swear Abyssea is when FFXI finally "got it right" never seem to look beyond their own nose when giving reasons. Almost without exception, the the arguments are always about how they are able to level more quickly, how they are able to solo more effectively, how they don't have to rely on other players, etc. It's the textbook post-WoW "me me me, more easier faster" mindset at work, almost without exception.

These people demonstrably have no concept of the damage SE's changes did to the game overall. Worse still, nor do they care. After all, they're able to go from 1-99 inside of a day, can do most of the content solo, and that's all that matters to them (and many have shared that exact sentiment, so this isn't me putting words in anyone's mouth).

And XI has the honor of being a game that was so dependent on (illegal) third-party tools that people didn't bat an eye about talking about them, even sometimes on the later-created official forums. I've played several MMOs, and know there are always cheaters but usually the community regards these people with public disdain (even if they're 'tweaking' themselves).

Addons are never necessary in a game. People don't have to use them. They choose to use them. Regardless the reasons or rationalizations they give (to justify it to themselves)... it's a choice. 100%. Every time.

FFXI was never "dependent on third party tools". Every piece of content released for FFXI is first tested internally, without the use of third-party addons. That's how they determine if it's acceptable for release, or still needs more work.

The video SE released giving clues on how to defeat Absolute Virtue was done using a strategy based and executed entirely without add-ons, using only clues/cues provided directly by the game, during the fight.

So, why do so many people insist that add-ons are absolutely necessary?
(No, it isn't "because clueless devs").

I'll answer with a question...

Why have things like Game Genies, Cheat Codes, Walk-through Guides and such, been so popular with gamers, going way back to the early consoles? All those games have been complete-able without them. So why have so many people been so drawn to using them?

The answer is because people will always go for the path of least resistance. The less they have to figure out on their own, and the more quickly they can get to that "reward", the better. If it means cheating to do so.. then so be it. The end justifies the means for them.

That boss giving you too hard of a time? Can't figure out its pattern and keep dying? Is a level giving you too much trouble? Well, hey look, there's a nifty code for 'God Mode'! Now you can ignore the mechanics, and faceroll your way through it unchallenged! As a bonus, you can then tell your friends how quickly you finished the game (leaving out that "cheat code" bit of course... that was totally necessary).

That's why people use add-ons in FFXI, and other MMOs. They're trying to make the path to the reward as easy as possible. They're trying to eliminate as much of the challenge, and reduce the amount of attention or effort they have to put in, as they can.

Why do they then turn around and say "the addons are necessary", or "you need addons to play this game"?

Short Answer:
Ego/pride.

Long Answer:
As readily as many will cheat or employ training-wheels to get their prize more easily/quickly, they don't want to admit that such helpers were required due to any lack of skill, or effort on their part. I mean, they got all this awesome looking gear! So, it can't be a lack of anything on their part. No no... that can't be it.

It must be that the game required it! Yeah, that's it! Those crappy developers made encounters that require those addons to be possible! They, the player, were just doing what's necessary to get around the developers' lousy coding! If the developers didn't want people using addons, then they shouldn't have made the content impossible without them!! Yeah... that's a much better conclusion. That's much easier for their pride/ego to digest. They get to have their reward, and still feel good about it.

Bottom Line: Addons aren't "necessary" because the game requires them. They're "necessary" because players lack the tenacity and/or skill to succeed without them. They want the reward without all the effort.

Final thought...
You say people would freely discuss using addons for FFXI. There's a difference between "discussing addons" and "using addons". SE wouldn't ban someone for talking about something like that, because merely stating something isn't proof of wrong-doing. However, they absolutely would and did ban accounts when they were caught using them.

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