@ you Blizzard, now that its costing you a lot of money you want restitution? Hope you lose, culminating to the same hopeless fruition that probably tens of thousands of your Customers have been through.
Well good news... At least the farmers will be dealt with in Leagion since nodes will be insranced.
As for PvP... Yeah.. If you solve the bot issue in PvP you will be a millionair selling that solution. Because no company so far have found a good solution that does not also impact the honest users.
Yes, there have always been hackers, botters and cheaters in MMOs. But it's only recently that some have gotten brazen and have started selling their cheats in slick packages advertised openly. They've been thumbing their noses saying "just try to stop us"... well, they're getting their wish.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
As Asm0deus post above shows it seems Blizzard sued Bossland GmbH and lost; in the regional court, the higher court and the court of appeal. However odious our gut reaction if they had won would Blizzard's next targets have been Corsair, Raptor and Logitech?
So now they are suing a distributor in a different court; for selling a legal product. And that will probably be their defence: the product I am selling is non illegal; I am registered to sell it and pay taxes.
I do not use / have never used bots. Instead of suing though why hasn't Blizzard done more e.g. put botters on their own servers (Respawn's approach), use auto-logout (WarnerBros). Eventually they banned some but - I cannot help feel - that whilst the bot accounts were paying a sub the game expeience of non-botters was secondary.
Going to court is like saying I wish it will all go away. Doing something takes effort and resources.
Either stop making ridiculous legal assumptions or don't waste people's time posting nonsense. According to your definition, anyone making hacking software is legal. The software they write is only intended to interfere with other players enjoyment of the game, hence just like hacking software which is illegal.
Next time don't waste people's time writing all that nonsense.
ROFL! Blizzard acting up as if the massive drop in subscribers is due to botting, than on their abysmal lack of care and content for its game.
Ha! *points finger meme*
Botting has kept me from playing many games. So, yeah I can see how a paid subscriber decided to quit over this issue that has plagued many games.
It's not Blizzards first rodeo, they have the funding to squash a shitty small business owner.
I am ok with a shitty owner getting what he/she deserves.
I absolutely agree. Botting was the reason I quit Lineage. It was rampant and affected the game dramatically. It's the sole reason we have to deal with anti-cheat/hack software which is a nasty piece of work we have to deal with.
This guy isn't running some benevolent wiki or plug-in. He's selling bot software to cheaters at the expense of the honest players. He doesn't care for the game or the community. He's selfish and hopefully his bot career will be ending soon.
The question really is should the people making these bots be responsible for the actions of those using them?
Really a bot is software that in of itself isn't illegal.
For example Hi-Point Firearms is the manufacturer that makes the model C-9 handgun.
It is commonly used in crimes so should Hi-Point be responsible and sued each time a crime is committed using these weapons or should the people using them be sued/held responsible?
They should be held responsible, but not solely to blame. The users of the software are culpable as well.
The botting software isn't bad in and of itself. Selling it for use to cheat at the expense of other paying customers and the possible financial loss to the company is, or should be. I'm not a lawyer so that would be an interesting answer to find out.
Sometimes the creator of something used to do harm is partly responsible and sometimes they are not. Maybe intent has a lot to do with that.
I think the gun analogy doesn't fit well here. For one they have non-criminal uses. Another point is that some people believe the manufacturer should be held partly responsible. Finally a merchant irresponsibly providing that firearm could be held responsible. In the case of this software and how it's sold is on shaky legal ground at best, if not outright illegal.
While your entitled to your opinion it's very clear legally companies making guns are not being held accountable for the actions of people using the guns otherwise they would all be bankrupt right now.
Another example.... Cheat Engine is software that allows you to hack games, so why are they still running? Why have they not been sued due to action of people using the software?
Dunno but shouldn't the people using the bots be held accountable for the monetary losses of blizzard since well they are the ones using the bots?
Yes guns and software are legally made, only one of them can be used sgainst TOS/EULA. Name s game you can legally use Honorbuddy that doesn't go against EULA or TOS?
Even Honorbuddy acknowledges
"This website is not associated with Activision Blizzard Inc. and Honorbuddy may be against their TOS/EULA?"
Can you buy Honorbuddy and use it as a stand alone like you would buy a gun just to shoot some cans?
Blame the person creating bots or blame the company for not providing adequate regulation and protection against bots?
... seriously, is there really a question which is right? Billion dollar company going after an individual is disgusting and perpetuates corporate control over what is "right" and what is "wrong." I guess all of you have never used a torrent program or any other program that allows you to download illegal software? Derp.
Use the tissue in your skulls, people.
I bet if it were your pocket they were taking the money from your attitude would be a bit different, and yes I have never used a program to download illegal software or anything else.
It makes no difference if it is a Billion dollar company or a 100k dollar one right is right and you have to take what ever action necessary to control your intellectual property.
Give me back SWG at sunset and keep adding to it and I would pay twice what it was costing.
The big question is what is blizzard doing while these legal proceedings are taking place? Are they actively banning these 100s 1000s of accounts making them allegedly lose 10s of millions, that they know are botting in there games? You know, they ones what get reported and are still doing them same thing for weeks/months on end.
Or are they just keep ignoring them, leaving them to play their games while these botters keep paying them money, like they have for years?
Why isn't blizzard along side this legal proceeding, putting every resource they have into cleaning up their games (guess they would lose to much money) and why did the last ban wave only last 6 months (because they want those accounts to sub again).
Seems like a ploy to make money out of the situation while not doing much to combat/clean up the bigger issue. Do you think people will keep buying these botting software if blizzard kept actively banning bots instead of little waves once in a blue moon.
Blizzard show us you care about your legit customers experience, show us you actively cleaning up your games.. not just once in a blue moon. Then maybe we'll care about you'r alleged 10s of million is lose revenue.
This business of banning in big waves months/year apart isn't working... people buying the bots find value in them because they freely use them for months. By the time their accounts been banned, they have probably move onto another game anyway or they a farmer for gold selling sites. Start banning within days and that value they find in botting will soon go away and quickly become an expensive hobby they wont want to continue. Start banning all the account they horde all the mass piles of gold on within days of each other so their prices go so high people wont buy from them.. they will buy from YOU.
I'm a bit surprised how many people say Blizzard should have gone after bot makers faster. That it's their own fault.
Well i don't know how much you guys know about legal systems, but most bots and goldsellers came from China. Blizzard couldn't do a thing about it, China isn't gonna hand over their own people to other nations. They couldn't start any case against these companies cause they had no legal rights there.
That is a problem Blizzard and many MMORPG devs face, that those botters/goldseller companies are Chinees. All companies can do is try to hunt it down actively ingame or take extreem measures to prevent even worse like Aion did with not able to whisper till a few lvls higher. It pissed players off cause they couldn't chat with friends, but during the beta the chats were flooded with goldspammers.
I guess this company is stupid enough to be in the States or a European country that has a agreement with the states so Blizzard can sue them.
People should also not make any appologies for botters and be so harsh on Blizzard, infact its finally a company who succeeds in sueing them. What the court will do we will see, but hopefully it opens gateways for others too to sue the living daylight out of these game destroyers.
And many people could have left due to botters, if PvP truelly becomes unplayable cause of bots then PvPers will find another game where it is fun to PvP. I remember we had a lot of botters in the old days in WoW, just sitting idle in AV or what ever that BG was called. Back then the servers weren't in a bloodgroup yet so it was just on your own server. You sometimes had to wait 8+ hours to get in and one round could take over 20 hours (no exacuration old WoW players might reconize it). Waiting so long just to find out a bunch of bots were there sitting back making sure the user wouldn't go afk but didn't contribute to battle either and keeping the spot taken while someone willing to play for real had to wait so damn long. No I'm glad they sue these people and i don't care if these people will be bankrupt for the rest of their lives, they allow games to get broken like that.
Dev's can't do a thing against it, there hasn't been any effective way to block bots and goldsellers, it's imposible.
What is a game? It's something "humans" do to test themselves physically or mentally against a specific scenario or human opposition. If you use a machine to play for you, then you're not gaming, just cheating. What satisfaction do these botters actually get? Can't see why, unless you're an entirely inadequate person, anyone would want to do it.
Let's set this straight. They lost 1 million subscribers in 6 months. The bot has been around for years. You don't suddenly lose 1M players because of something which hasn't changed, you lose them because you're doing something wrong. Blaming a bot company for the loss of revenue, is bull. Think about it. When the players get banned for cheating, they go out and buy more CDKeys and pay more monthly fees. Do I not play WoW because of bots? No, I don't play it because it's gone all care bear. They made the game easier and easier, might as well call it "Club Panda". They dumbed down the game, hoping to make it less skill based, to attract more players like Candy Crush did. So all the players who wanted to be challenged, left the game.
Let's set this straight. They lost 1 million subscribers in 6 months. The bot has been around for years. You don't suddenly lose 1M players because of something which hasn't changed, you lose them because you're doing something wrong. Blaming a bot company for the loss of revenue, is bull. Think about it. When the players get banned for cheating, they go out and buy more CDKeys and pay more monthly fees. Do I not play WoW because of bots? No, I don't play it because it's gone all care bear. They made the game easier and easier, might as well call it "Club Panda". They dumbed down the game, hoping to make it less skill based, to attract more players like Candy Crush did. So all the players who wanted to be challenged, left the game.
So.... You have no real clue what you talk about since you do not play the game anymore but you are keyd in to Blizz financials... I do envy your position.
On the other hand the main complaint in both PvP and Crafting since... well.. day 1 have been bots. So i feel very confident in saying that bots are contributing to the churn of customers, it does not represent the sole reason... heck it is probably not even the main contributor. But it is absolutely a factor. So why not try to strike it down when you can (and since you can not stop them from making the software, it is a rare opportunity when they can be targeted for other things.) since it will not really hurt the bottom dollar and generate a lot of positive press. Otoh not going after them generate a lot of negative press.
Blizzard Files Suit Against Alleged Bot Creator | World of Warcraft | MMORPG.com
Blizzard has filed a new lawsuit in California that alleges that James "Apoc" Enright, creator of HonorBuddy, StormBuddy and DemonBuddy, has cost the gaming giant millions of dollars in lost revenue as a result of bot sales and use in World of Warcraft, Heroes of the Storm and Diablo III. The suit seeks an order to stop all sales and distribution of the bot programs and financial compensation that could total tens of millions of dollars if successful.
This is technically incorrect. Apoc is not the creator or owner of Honorbuddy. He created some stuff a long time ago that was used to make honorbuddy. Honorbuddy is owned and operated by a company in Germany that Blizzard lost a lawsuit against. In fact, that company is now sueing blizzard.
so to be up-to-date the title shoudl read "Bot-maker sues Blizzard". And because this is taking place in germany and they are using the legal precedent set by blizzard itself, they will probably win. TLDR: honnorbuddy's owners are sueing blizzard because blizzard reverse engineered honorbuddy to ban its users which is a violation of copyright law.
TLDR: honnorbuddy's owners are sueing blizzard because blizzard reverse engineered honorbuddy to ban its users which is a violation of copyright law.
That's the kicker right... Since they had to reverse engineer Blizzard's programs to do what they do... They would then be arguing that their own programs were illegal to begin with. Nothing like filing a lawsuit which makes you admit guilt.
US courts had already kicked the ball around that simply using these programs was also a violation of copyright law... So at some point you'd expect players using 3rd party programs in the correct geographical locations to start being sued as well. Along with notices being sent to ISP's about AUP (acceptable use policy) violations so the net cords can start being cut.
Blizzard Files Suit Against Alleged Bot Creator | World of Warcraft | MMORPG.com
Blizzard has filed a new lawsuit in California that alleges that James "Apoc" Enright, creator of HonorBuddy, StormBuddy and DemonBuddy, has cost the gaming giant millions of dollars in lost revenue as a result of bot sales and use in World of Warcraft, Heroes of the Storm and Diablo III. The suit seeks an order to stop all sales and distribution of the bot programs and financial compensation that could total tens of millions of dollars if successful.
This is technically incorrect. Apoc is not the creator or owner of Honorbuddy. He created some stuff a long time ago that was used to make honorbuddy. Honorbuddy is owned and operated by a company in Germany that Blizzard lost a lawsuit against. In fact, that company is now sueing blizzard.
so to be up-to-date the title shoudl read "Bot-maker sues Blizzard". And because this is taking place in germany and they are using the legal precedent set by blizzard itself, they will probably win. TLDR: honnorbuddy's owners are sueing blizzard because blizzard reverse engineered honorbuddy to ban its users which is a violation of copyright law.
So they reverse engineered WoW and D3 and it is perfectly alright for them to do but it is a great crime when Blizzard reverse engineer their cheat program to ban cheaters it becomes a crime? What kind of country germany has become when their court rule in the favor of cheaters and hackers? Blue bloods have fallen indeed.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Botting is not a crime according to law. #DealWithIt
Yeah but when they are botting they are breaking ToU and ToS of Blizzard and many other companies that provide online game service, that breach of conduct is punishable in court of law and it seems like now it is time for companies to start picking the players who bot and sue them one by one and send them to jail, time to lay down the law.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Not sure where all you legal eagles get all your bad information, but there is legal precedent for this. Several developers have sued bot makers and won, including Blizzard.
Anyone trying to defend a bot maker is about as low as you can go.
More power to Blizzard! I hope they get every dime they ask for and then a criminal case gets filed in which every person accused is immediately thrown in jail, allowed a bond at the maximum legal rate, and get 25 years in jail when convicted.
I also hope their records are used to go after any and every person that bought the botting programs. Maybe if their parents have to pay $5000 fines and the kid has to spend a month in jail the message will get across.
Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall
A comment about big Blizzard picking on the little guy was made but that little guy and his fellow cheaters are spoiling the game for everyone else. Its one of the reasons I don't raid much any more or do pvp. They can't create anything constructive but love to create destructive bots to completely rule the game. Hope Blizzard goes after all, individual or corp. whoever or wherever you breathe or exist. Grats to Blizzard for this. Can't come any too soon. Nab them all!!
A comment about big Blizzard picking on the little guy was made but that little guy and his fellow cheaters are spoiling the game for everyone else. Its one of the reasons I don't raid much any more or do pvp. They can't create anything constructive but love to create destructive bots to completely rule the game. Hope Blizzard goes after all, individual or corp. whoever or wherever you breathe or exist. Grats to Blizzard for this. Can't come any too soon. Nab them all!!
That's not even a "little guy" they're going after: it's a commercial enterprise selling their cheats.
Even though it's still cheating, I could see myself cutting some slack for an individual hacker that programs and uses his own bot. But the brazen for profit groups that code a cheat and set-up shop with a slick website to sell it? No, no slack whatsoever.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
As Asm0deus post above shows it seems Blizzard sued Bossland GmbH and lost; in the regional court, the higher court and the court of appeal. However odious our gut reaction if they had won would Blizzard's next targets have been Corsair, Raptor and Logitech?
So now they are suing a distributor in a different court; for selling a legal product. And that will probably be their defence: the product I am selling is non illegal; I am registered to sell it and pay taxes.
I do not use / have never used bots. Instead of suing though why hasn't Blizzard done more e.g. put botters on their own servers (Respawn's approach), use auto-logout (WarnerBros). Eventually they banned some but - I cannot help feel - that whilst the bot accounts were paying a sub the game expeience of non-botters was secondary.
Going to court is like saying I wish it will all go away. Doing something takes effort and resources.
Either stop making ridiculous legal assumptions or don't waste people's time posting nonsense. According to your definition, anyone making hacking software is legal. The software they write is only intended to interfere with other players enjoyment of the game, hence just like hacking software which is illegal.
Next time don't waste people's time writing all that nonsense.
The people who decided that Bossland GmbH's software is legal were: the German regional court; the German high court and the German court of appeal. I didn't decide.
And the rest of EU - since the judgement in the German court is in line with the EU supreme court decisions. And I suppose they would have to ban some other continents as well.
Comments
As for PvP... Yeah.. If you solve the bot issue in PvP you will be a millionair selling that solution. Because no company so far have found a good solution that does not also impact the honest users.
This have been a good conversation
Yes, there have always been hackers, botters and cheaters in MMOs. But it's only recently that some have gotten brazen and have started selling their cheats in slick packages advertised openly. They've been thumbing their noses saying "just try to stop us"... well, they're getting their wish.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Next time don't waste people's time writing all that nonsense.
Even Honorbuddy acknowledges
"This website is not associated with Activision Blizzard Inc. and Honorbuddy may be against their TOS/EULA?"
Can you buy Honorbuddy and use it as a stand alone like you would buy a gun just to shoot some cans?
Give me back SWG at sunset and keep adding to it and I would pay twice what it was costing.
Or are they just keep ignoring them, leaving them to play their games while these botters keep paying them money, like they have for years?
Why isn't blizzard along side this legal proceeding, putting every resource they have into cleaning up their games (guess they would lose to much money) and why did the last ban wave only last 6 months (because they want those accounts to sub again).
Seems like a ploy to make money out of the situation while not doing much to combat/clean up the bigger issue. Do you think people will keep buying these botting software if blizzard kept actively banning bots instead of little waves once in a blue moon.
Blizzard show us you care about your legit customers experience, show us you actively cleaning up your games.. not just once in a blue moon. Then maybe we'll care about you'r alleged 10s of million is lose revenue.
This business of banning in big waves months/year apart isn't working... people buying the bots find value in them because they freely use them for months. By the time their accounts been banned, they have probably move onto another game anyway or they a farmer for gold selling sites. Start banning within days and that value they find in botting will soon go away and quickly become an expensive hobby they wont want to continue. Start banning all the account they horde all the mass piles of gold on within days of each other so their prices go so high people wont buy from them.. they will buy from YOU.
Spitt
Uber100.com - Add your MMO site today!
On the other hand the main complaint in both PvP and Crafting since... well.. day 1 have been bots. So i feel very confident in saying that bots are contributing to the churn of customers, it does not represent the sole reason... heck it is probably not even the main contributor. But it is absolutely a factor. So why not try to strike it down when you can (and since you can not stop them from making the software, it is a rare opportunity when they can be targeted for other things.) since it will not really hurt the bottom dollar and generate a lot of positive press. Otoh not going after them generate a lot of negative press.
This have been a good conversation
Apoc is not the creator or owner of Honorbuddy.
He created some stuff a long time ago that was used to make honorbuddy.
Honorbuddy is owned and operated by a company in Germany that Blizzard lost a lawsuit against.
In fact, that company is now sueing blizzard.
so to be up-to-date the title shoudl read "Bot-maker sues Blizzard".
And because this is taking place in germany and they are using the legal precedent set by blizzard itself, they will probably win.
TLDR: honnorbuddy's owners are sueing blizzard because blizzard reverse engineered honorbuddy to ban its users which is a violation of copyright law.
Uh, how did this doublepost happen???
That's the kicker right... Since they had to reverse engineer Blizzard's programs to do what they do... They would then be arguing that their own programs were illegal to begin with. Nothing like filing a lawsuit which makes you admit guilt.
US courts had already kicked the ball around that simply using these programs was also a violation of copyright law... So at some point you'd expect players using 3rd party programs in the correct geographical locations to start being sued as well. Along with notices being sent to ISP's about AUP (acceptable use policy) violations so the net cords can start being cut.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Anyone trying to defend a bot maker is about as low as you can go.
Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall
Even though it's still cheating, I could see myself cutting some slack for an individual hacker that programs and uses his own bot. But the brazen for profit groups that code a cheat and set-up shop with a slick website to sell it? No, no slack whatsoever.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
The people who decided that Bossland GmbH's software is legal were: the German regional court; the German high court and the German court of appeal. I didn't decide.
Next time try reading before posting.
And the rest of EU - since the judgement in the German court is in line with the EU supreme court decisions. And I suppose they would have to ban some other continents as well.
That would just leave US players who bot ........