I have this uneasy feeling like this is too good to be true.
Yeah, everytime they release something, it's something amazing. Course this is all concept/picture stuff and not actual in-game stuff so it can sound amazing all it wants but it doesn't move it beyond wait and see and take in information until I see all this stuff in-game before I get excited. For all we know this could just be pretty pictures, but i'm giving the benefit of the doubt for now and riding along with everyone else.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
While the game looks good, still having to pay real money for each of my lives and having Perma Death makes this game a hell no for me. If you cannot make this game a P2P game on a small budget and not have Perma Death in it players like me who like the looks will not get into a P2W game. Sorry buying in game lives with real money is fucking stupid. I have better things to spend my money on as well as invest it. I can part ways with $15 a month for a sub but again buying lives at $1 or so a pop no.
Sorry buying in game lives with real money is fucking stupid. I have better things to spend my money on as well as invest it. I can part ways with $15 a month for a sub but again buying lives at $1 or so a pop no.
There are a few misunderstandings about the business model
here I wanted to correct.
Firstly perma-death is not the same as a hardcore mode. This
game does not kill your character every time you ‘die’ so you are going to be
paying for lives far less frequently than you might have thought. There is
incapacitation (the most common form of death) which has no effect on your life
span. Spirit Walking which is a serious death and will decrease the overall
time you will live. And then perma-death only in very particular circumstances
or when you have decreased your life too far. There is more about those systems
in an earlier Developer Journal: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/1308/feature/10014/Design-Journal-4-Incapacitation-Spirit-Walking-and-Permadeath.html
It is estimated that depending on the risks a player takes
and their skill you are looking at 6 to 10 months of player per character. A
new life is then around $20 to $40, no price has been confirmed yet. That means
if you compare it to a subscription game you are paying less. And just like a
subscription game it is P2P just rather than paying monthly you pay at less
frequent intervals.
Ok this time i got very sceptical. You dont even talk about any of the common arguments against non-instanced housing.
How do you prevent people from building houses over the hole map?
How do you prevent people from blocking passages?
What do you plan about houses of inactive accounts?
Everybody of us is aware of the positive side effects of housing. We didnt need you to explain it again to us. You should have told us whats your solution to its downsides.
Or is your only intention to creat as much hype as possible?
Ok this time i got very sceptical. You dont even talk about any of the common arguments against non-instanced housing.
How do you prevent people from building houses over the hole map?
How do you prevent people from blocking passages?
What do you plan about houses of inactive accounts?
Everybody of us is aware of the positive side effects of housing. We didnt need you to explain it again to us. You should have told us whats your solution to its downsides.
Or is your only intention to creat as much hype as possible?
Dude your being a little too angry here,this is a VERY early stage of presenting game ideas,this is not like the other 100 games asking for money and that alone is a very big difference and a big positive...correct?
Now yes of course lots of answers will need to be had but for the time being we can speculate on ideas based on what we know about how a game map is designed.I think most wil lassume here that there will be plots as in most all games,so no you are not going to be able to build a house just anywhere,at least i would think not.
Other reasons would be water zones "if there are water zones" you would mess that all up as well as spawn points,there is no way at all that a game would mistakenly forget about it's spawn locations,so yeah yoru not building anywhere you want.Then of course there are possible npc's just wandering around or even a mob,you can';t just build on top of them either,so i think that eliminates your speculation.
As to positives and negatives,for example inactive accounts.We don't even know the pay model yet,if someone is paying a sub fee,they have every right to have a house just sitting there even if they are not login to play.Then there is a VERY good chance since housing is likely the most costly venue a developer can undergo that it will carry a cash shop with it,which i don't like but very likely to happen.This again means that if i or you paid money to have that house there,you have every right to keep it there even if not playing,think of it like a cottage in real life,some people don't visit their cottages for years.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Great, finally some good housing. There hasn't been good housing in a game since EQ2. But PvP? That's incredibly stupid. It will just ruin the experience for everyone if you aren't even safe in your own house, or you will be ganked every time you leave it.
Another refreshing take on game design in mmo's - keep 'em coming!
The division of labor between architects and builders is promising and i can already picture in-game chat & forum conversations where peeps are looking for recommendations on a good contractor
Crews specialized in clearing lots, preparing building sites/foundations, carving gargoyles or dungeon stonework and fixturing, who maybe do a bit of 'extra' work on the side, at night, under cover of darkness.....
My biggest question for the devs is in regard to controlling building placement in an open world. At a guess i would say the most natural way to do this in CoE is through contracts with landowners and ultimately the crown, as it provides great immersion and player-generated content.
On the other hand let's think about a group of ne'r-o-wells squatting/building so as to cut off access to the town square, houses, shops or diverting the highway to a good ambush site. What is the game design in these cases? Is it a free-for-all? Probably not, that's pretty awful design. Will the devs be hand-specifying land that can/cannot be developed on? Will miscreant building be impossible on public lands or possible but discouraged by in-game mechanics?
The ability to squat/build/defend is interesting for sure, is there a balancing game mechanic that would provide a pack of architectural trolls with a fair bit of Dwarf Fortress-like 'fun'?
raynforce said:
rodarin said:
"As always open world housing sounds great until it isnt and that doesnt take long. It does work in ARK mostly because no one plays on official servers anymore and private ones are more civilized. But with open world housing in open world servers I suspect some major issues."
It is open world housing, but with a twist that prevents players from putting houses down just anywhere. Don't forget that in CoE, all land (even unexplored land) is owned by someone. To build a house you need permission from whoever has the authority to assign that land. Smart rulers will not let people build just anywhere, they will have civil engineers of sorts plan out their cities.
While you can build without permission, you must be able to defend your land (likely from that land's owner) or you will lose your property. Better have an army or be too far away for the ruler/owner to bother dealing with you.
Then of course that raises the question of who owns land and how? Then of course the usual arguments of "'no lifers' own everything blah blah blah blah blah".
So again open world housing sounds awesome until it isnt which is when you start losing what you built.
So an in depth 'awesome' building mechanic is a waste if you have to constantly rebuilt everything all the time due to loss.
People simply look at the nice pictures and assume if you build it you will keep it. Should probably be that way but highly unlikely it will be the case. If you spend dozens to hundreds of hours learning everything then another hundred plus hours building stuff and it is destroyed in a matter of minutes that kills people right there. Again using ARK as an example. Thats why the official servers are dead.
Obviously cart is way before the horse here because first they have to deliver what the screen shots evoke, then the system has to 'work', on every level.
If you have wallet warriors or hackers owning all the land it kills the game. If you play 3-4 hours a week and cant keep a house built or find land to own that hurts the game. If you play 20-30 hours a week and have problems keeping land or houses that kills the game.
Thats why I said it should be a phased/instanced 'safe' housing area. People that build houses are more RP geeks than they are griefers or PvPers. So having a housing system that opens up all sorts of opportunities for others outside their orbit just causes problems and is a bad idea. Always has been, always will be. Its better to start off one way than to shift to that after the fact (which many if not all games have done).
So while you trade of the "hey look at my awesome house everyone'' that walks down this road. You also have ''hey look what this guy spent weeks building let's burn it to the ground''.
Obviously you cant have stuff last forever and guys hwo go inactive or stop playing shouldnt be keeping land. But there are about a dozen ways to set up in game mechanics to address those issues.
Like I said theyre pulling on all the right strings, problem is there isnt any actual in game world verification yet.
Rebornc said: Ok this time i got very sceptical. You dont even talk about any of the common arguments against non-instanced housing. You should have told us whats your solution to its downsides.
One of the drawbacks of non-instanced housing is that a house filled with lots of objects can impact performance. People familiar with Archeage have sometimes complained about this. One solution to the problem is either to create sparse housing or have a limit on how many objects can be placed inside a house.
Like I said theyre pulling on all the right strings, problem is there isnt any actual in game world verification yet.
The game is a lot further along than people think. We frequently share screenshots, behind-the-scenes pictures, and even videos with those who regularly hang out in our IRC channel.
Here's a screenshot from a recent video we shared.
We haven't released any official videos yet because we want our first impression to really excite people. Once we do, we're pretty sure we're going to put to bed everyone's concerns.
1.I think that depends on what house you want to build, and how big you want it. You'll be able to build a house alone, but it's not meant to be a solo experience. So building the house will probably require an architeciner or lumberjack to make room for the house, carpenter, masonry and probably also a few others like glass maker etc.
2. Yes and no. If you start as a ward of the state you'll be an orphan (without family and house). If you pick to start as a child in a family you'll start with a house, since houses are a family thing, the bigger the house the bigger the family. Which is said and written a few times, and the first is from some of the first journals, which you of course have read. ;>
3. Crafting works a lot differently than other games, so you'll probably be able to start of right from the bat. You'll get better at it as you process, but if the first thing you want to do is design houses, you'll be able to do that. But I sould read the crafting journal that was released not that long ago, and maybe go on the forums and look at some of the live Q and A, I know you would be able to find your answers there !
Typical Timberhick ;9 you have the opportunity to find out the answers, aka. The substance you think CoE is missing
@Wizardry we do know the payment method, It's pay per life. @Rebornc there's no map, so they won't be able to know how the whole map lays out. Houses also needs more than 1 person to build if it's a proper house, materials in the area will also dictate of what you can build your house out off. And you won't be able to carry as much as in other mmos, so you won't carry all the materials needed i one go. 2. Blocking passages might be a bit hard, remember you'll need toblease the land from the count and if you're blocking off things, the count isn't doing his job properly. Besides, I it'll create some interesting scenarios, maybe they'll build a bridge over or maybe a tunnel. Anyway pvp is a thing, so if you get the whole town against you they might chase you out of town and destroy your house, since houses aren't invulnerable. 3. Remember houses is a family home, family is not 1 person. But since your player character never leaves the gameworld he'll probably look like a npc until the day he'll die if the player never want to play him anymore. So either the house will go down to the next in line or it'll begin to crumble and maybe even become haunted or sold off ;9
@Moirae your count/duke or king is in charge of protecting you if you live in their kingdom, so it won't be a free for all strongest survive, there'll be politics etc. And the count will most likely do his to keep his lands attractive or people might move.
@yanocchi that's an awful reason not to do it just because it hasn't been done right, doesn't mean it's not possible and shouldn't be tried. A lot of things were wrong with archeage, but there isn't just 1 way to fix it, and I know jeromy knows what he's doing, but let's wait and see on the performance. But a lot of things have never been tried before in this game, so dismissing them and comparing them to wow won't push the technology to be able to handle new things.
Ok this time i got very sceptical. You dont even talk about any of the common arguments against non-instanced housing.
How do you prevent people from building houses over the hole map?
How do you prevent people from blocking passages?
What do you plan about houses of inactive accounts?
Everybody of us is aware of the positive side effects of housing. We didnt need you to explain it again to us. You should have told us whats your solution to its downsides.
Or is your only intention to creat as much hype as possible?
There will be decay in the game... for your building to last properly, you need to own the parcel of land. That two weeks of building and squatting... to build all over, you need the actual materials and you cannot lug that around in your virtual inventory. You will need a cart, with all the materials and outside a basic hut for yourself. You will need more than 1 person to be able to build a small house in any reasonable amount of time.
So that's more than a 30minute run around with a mammoth or other dino mounts loading up buckets of materials to make stone foundations / pillars and plaster them all over the land.
Visit the Chronicles of Elyria official site and the Official Wiki... an upcoming MMO from Soulbound Studios with real consequences to your actions. Finite Resources, WYSIWYG looting to player created and maintained maps and a deep modular crafting system. So much more that hasn't been said, ask questions! Post your thoughts! Spread the word of COE!
If you haven't yet, register with my referrer code on the official website: B0E240
liva98989 said: @Wizardry we do know the payment method, It's pay per life. @Rebornc there's no map, so they won't be able to know how the whole map lays out. Houses also needs more than 1 person to build if it's a proper house, materials in the area will also dictate of what you can build your house out off. And you won't be able to carry as much as in other mmos, so you won't carry all the materials needed i one go.
2. Blocking passages might be a bit hard, remember you'll need toblease the land from the count and if you're blocking off things, the count isn't doing his job properly. Besides, I it'll create some interesting scenarios, maybe they'll build a bridge over or maybe a tunnel. Anyway pvp is a thing, so if you get the whole town against you they might chase you out of town and destroy your house, since houses aren't invulnerable.
3. Remember houses is a family home, family is not 1 person. But since your player character never leaves the gameworld he'll probably look like a npc until the day he'll die if the player never want to play him anymore. So either the house will go down to the next in line or it'll begin to crumble and maybe even become haunted or sold off ;9
--------------------------------
My primary concern is from organized groups coming into the game and min/maxing the mechanics. A recent case in point would be The Imperium(rebranded goons from EVE) moving into H1Z1.
When games have multiple layers of interacting systems, it is very hard for the devs or anyone else to see all the loopholes in advance. If we're depending on players to oppose organized trolling we're probably going to fail because that would require the same investment of time/money that an organized group of intelligent trolls can bring to the table. The pay-per-soul mechanic will screen out the casual trolls but may not keep out the organized ones. The price for entry into CoE isn't that high, after all.
Maybe there's a clever game mechanics answer to this that doesn't require a patchwork of arbitrary non-immersive rules, here's to hoping that Soulbound Studios has got it all figured out.
Or maybe these concerns are the wrong way to look at our story because in the end, isn't the King/Queen the biggest troll of them all?
Comments
Though I wouldn't like my precious house to be demolished, I really want to know more about that.
I have this uneasy feeling like this is too good to be true.
Exactly my thoughts...
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
There are a few misunderstandings about the business model here I wanted to correct.
Firstly perma-death is not the same as a hardcore mode. This game does not kill your character every time you ‘die’ so you are going to be paying for lives far less frequently than you might have thought. There is incapacitation (the most common form of death) which has no effect on your life span. Spirit Walking which is a serious death and will decrease the overall time you will live. And then perma-death only in very particular circumstances or when you have decreased your life too far. There is more about those systems in an earlier Developer Journal: http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/1308/feature/10014/Design-Journal-4-Incapacitation-Spirit-Walking-and-Permadeath.html
It is estimated that depending on the risks a player takes and their skill you are looking at 6 to 10 months of player per character. A new life is then around $20 to $40, no price has been confirmed yet. That means if you compare it to a subscription game you are paying less. And just like a subscription game it is P2P just rather than paying monthly you pay at less frequent intervals.
How do you prevent people from building houses over the hole map?
How do you prevent people from blocking passages?
What do you plan about houses of inactive accounts?
Everybody of us is aware of the positive side effects of housing. We didnt need you to explain it again to us. You should have told us whats your solution to its downsides.
Or is your only intention to creat as much hype as possible?
Now yes of course lots of answers will need to be had but for the time being we can speculate on ideas based on what we know about how a game map is designed.I think most wil lassume here that there will be plots as in most all games,so no you are not going to be able to build a house just anywhere,at least i would think not.
Other reasons would be water zones "if there are water zones" you would mess that all up as well as spawn points,there is no way at all that a game would mistakenly forget about it's spawn locations,so yeah yoru not building anywhere you want.Then of course there are possible npc's just wandering around or even a mob,you can';t just build on top of them either,so i think that eliminates your speculation.
As to positives and negatives,for example inactive accounts.We don't even know the pay model yet,if someone is paying a sub fee,they have every right to have a house just sitting there even if they are not login to play.Then there is a VERY good chance since housing is likely the most costly venue a developer can undergo that it will carry a cash shop with it,which i don't like but very likely to happen.This again means that if i or you paid money to have that house there,you have every right to keep it there even if not playing,think of it like a cottage in real life,some people don't visit their cottages for years.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
The division of labor between architects and builders is promising and i can already picture in-game chat & forum conversations where peeps are looking for recommendations on a good contractor
Crews specialized in clearing lots, preparing building sites/foundations, carving gargoyles or dungeon stonework and fixturing, who maybe do a bit of 'extra' work on the side, at night, under cover of darkness.....
My biggest question for the devs is in regard to controlling building placement in an open world. At a guess i would say the most natural way to do this in CoE is through contracts with landowners and ultimately the crown, as it provides great immersion and player-generated content.
On the other hand let's think about a group of ne'r-o-wells squatting/building so as to cut off access to the town square, houses, shops or diverting the highway to a good ambush site. What is the game design in these cases? Is it a free-for-all? Probably not, that's pretty awful design. Will the devs be hand-specifying land that can/cannot be developed on? Will miscreant building be impossible on public lands or possible but discouraged by in-game mechanics?
The ability to squat/build/defend is interesting for sure, is there a balancing game mechanic that would provide a pack of architectural trolls with a fair bit of Dwarf Fortress-like 'fun'?
rodarin said:
"As always open world housing sounds great until it isnt and that doesnt take long. It does work in ARK mostly because no one plays on official servers anymore and private ones are more civilized. But with open world housing in open world servers I suspect some major issues."
It is open world housing, but with a twist that prevents players from putting houses down just anywhere. Don't forget that in CoE, all land (even unexplored land) is owned by someone. To build a house you need permission from whoever has the authority to assign that land. Smart rulers will not let people build just anywhere, they will have civil engineers of sorts plan out their cities.
While you can build without permission, you must be able to defend your land (likely from that land's owner) or you will lose your property. Better have an army or be too far away for the ruler/owner to bother dealing with you.
Then of course that raises the question of who owns land and how? Then of course the usual arguments of "'no lifers' own everything blah blah blah blah blah".
So again open world housing sounds awesome until it isnt which is when you start losing what you built.
So an in depth 'awesome' building mechanic is a waste if you have to constantly rebuilt everything all the time due to loss.
People simply look at the nice pictures and assume if you build it you will keep it. Should probably be that way but highly unlikely it will be the case. If you spend dozens to hundreds of hours learning everything then another hundred plus hours building stuff and it is destroyed in a matter of minutes that kills people right there. Again using ARK as an example. Thats why the official servers are dead.
Obviously cart is way before the horse here because first they have to deliver what the screen shots evoke, then the system has to 'work', on every level.
If you have wallet warriors or hackers owning all the land it kills the game. If you play 3-4 hours a week and cant keep a house built or find land to own that hurts the game. If you play 20-30 hours a week and have problems keeping land or houses that kills the game.
Thats why I said it should be a phased/instanced 'safe' housing area. People that build houses are more RP geeks than they are griefers or PvPers. So having a housing system that opens up all sorts of opportunities for others outside their orbit just causes problems and is a bad idea. Always has been, always will be. Its better to start off one way than to shift to that after the fact (which many if not all games have done).
So while you trade of the "hey look at my awesome house everyone'' that walks down this road. You also have ''hey look what this guy spent weeks building let's burn it to the ground''.
Obviously you cant have stuff last forever and guys hwo go inactive or stop playing shouldnt be keeping land. But there are about a dozen ways to set up in game mechanics to address those issues.
Like I said theyre pulling on all the right strings, problem is there isnt any actual in game world verification yet.
Ok this time i got very sceptical. You dont even talk about any of the common arguments against non-instanced housing.
You should have told us whats your solution to its downsides.
One of the drawbacks of non-instanced housing is that a house filled with lots of objects can impact performance. People familiar with Archeage have sometimes complained about this. One solution to the problem is either to create sparse housing or have a limit on how many objects can be placed inside a house.
* more info, screenshots and videos here
Here's a screenshot from a recent video we shared.
We haven't released any official videos yet because we want our first impression to really excite people. Once we do, we're pretty sure we're going to put to bed everyone's concerns.
Owner/CEO of Soulbound Studios
ChroniclesOfElyria.com
Wonder where people start at? Do you start with a house?
What skill level does the architect need to be at before they are able to create a house?
[mod edit]
1.I think that depends on what house you want to build, and how big you want it. You'll be able to build a house alone, but it's not meant to be a solo experience. So building the house will probably require an architeciner or lumberjack to make room for the house, carpenter, masonry and probably also a few others like glass maker etc.
2. Yes and no. If you start as a ward of the state you'll be an orphan (without family and house). If you pick to start as a child in a family you'll start with a house, since houses are a family thing, the bigger the house the bigger the family. Which is said and written a few times, and the first is from some of the first journals, which you of course have read. ;>
3. Crafting works a lot differently than other games, so you'll probably be able to start of right from the bat. You'll get better at it as you process, but if the first thing you want to do is design houses, you'll be able to do that. But I sould read the crafting journal that was released not that long ago, and maybe go on the forums and look at some of the live Q and A, I know you would be able to find your answers there
Typical Timberhick ;9 you have the opportunity to find out the answers, aka. The substance you think CoE is missing
@Rebornc there's no map, so they won't be able to know how the whole map lays out. Houses also needs more than 1 person to build if it's a proper house, materials in the area will also dictate of what you can build your house out off. And you won't be able to carry as much as in other mmos, so you won't carry all the materials needed i one go.
2. Blocking passages might be a bit hard, remember you'll need toblease the land from the count and if you're blocking off things, the count isn't doing his job properly. Besides, I it'll create some interesting scenarios, maybe they'll build a bridge over or maybe a tunnel. Anyway pvp is a thing, so if you get the whole town against you they might chase you out of town and destroy your house, since houses aren't invulnerable.
3. Remember houses is a family home, family is not 1 person. But since your player character never leaves the gameworld he'll probably look like a npc until the day he'll die if the player never want to play him anymore. So either the house will go down to the next in line or it'll begin to crumble and maybe even become haunted or sold off ;9
@yanocchi that's an awful reason not to do it just because it hasn't been done right, doesn't mean it's not possible and shouldn't be tried. A lot of things were wrong with archeage, but there isn't just 1 way to fix it, and I know jeromy knows what he's doing, but let's wait and see on the performance. But a lot of things have never been tried before in this game, so dismissing them and comparing them to wow won't push the technology to be able to handle new things.
So that's more than a 30minute run around with a mammoth or other dino mounts loading up buckets of materials to make stone foundations / pillars and plaster them all over the land.
Finite Resources, WYSIWYG looting to player created and maintained maps and a deep modular crafting system. So much more that hasn't been said, ask questions! Post your thoughts! Spread the word of COE!
If you haven't yet, register with my referrer code on the official website: B0E240
@Wizardry we do know the payment method, It's pay per life.
@Rebornc there's no map, so they won't be able to know how the whole map lays out. Houses also needs more than 1 person to build if it's a proper house, materials in the area will also dictate of what you can build your house out off. And you won't be able to carry as much as in other mmos, so you won't carry all the materials needed i one go.
2. Blocking passages might be a bit hard, remember you'll need toblease the land from the count and if you're blocking off things, the count isn't doing his job properly. Besides, I it'll create some interesting scenarios, maybe they'll build a bridge over or maybe a tunnel. Anyway pvp is a thing, so if you get the whole town against you they might chase you out of town and destroy your house, since houses aren't invulnerable.
3. Remember houses is a family home, family is not 1 person. But since your player character never leaves the gameworld he'll probably look like a npc until the day he'll die if the player never want to play him anymore. So either the house will go down to the next in line or it'll begin to crumble and maybe even become haunted or sold off ;9
--------------------------------
My primary concern is from organized groups coming into the game and min/maxing the mechanics. A recent case in point would be The Imperium(rebranded goons from EVE) moving into H1Z1.
When games have multiple layers of interacting systems, it is very hard for the devs or anyone else to see all the loopholes in advance. If we're depending on players to oppose organized trolling we're probably going to fail because that would require the same investment of time/money that an organized group of intelligent trolls can bring to the table. The pay-per-soul mechanic will screen out the casual trolls but may not keep out the organized ones. The price for entry into CoE isn't that high, after all.
Maybe there's a clever game mechanics answer to this that doesn't require a patchwork of arbitrary non-immersive rules, here's to hoping that Soulbound Studios has got it all figured out.
Or maybe these concerns are the wrong way to look at our story because in the end, isn't the King/Queen the biggest troll of them all?
Owner/CEO of Soulbound Studios
ChroniclesOfElyria.com