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once again another example of Developers causing confusion in marketing a non-MMO as a MMO.

MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,400

at the 0:24 mark the developers say so.

but this is a ARPG like Diablo.
This creates more confusion when trying to get info on games out there to play that are MMOs.

if I want to play ARPG/CORPG I would like these games to have the correct term, so I can easily find these kind of games when I want to play them. But calling them MMOs, just adds more non-MMOs to the list of games I may be trying to search for and now have to filter through, especially how Developers now days are very vague and secretive, the filtering duty can be harder..

And now there is becoming a negative sigma for pointing out this false advertisement I have notice from the MMO community.

Where do we go from here on this concern?

Philosophy of MMO Game Design

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Comments

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    They are not developers, developer is Bluhole Zinno; korean company. And devilian is mmo in a sense that it has large open areas unlike instanced arpg we see. But if we really wanna nitpick, no it is not mmo, heck the only, one and only mmo in market currently is WoW.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601
    They are not developers, developer is Bluhole Zinno; korean company. And devilian is mmo in a sense that it has large open areas unlike instanced arpg we see. But if we really wanna nitpick, no it is not mmo, heck the only, one and only mmo in market currently is WoW.

    Everything about this post was both funny and sad
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    They are not developers, developer is Bluhole Zinno; korean company. And devilian is mmo in a sense that it has large open areas unlike instanced arpg we see. But if we really wanna nitpick, no it is not mmo, heck the only, one and only mmo in market currently is WoW.

    Everything about this post was both funny and sad
    its all about context, hopefully i am not the only one who understood him to be saying that if you limit the criteria so exactly, then you can end up with a single game like WoW for instance, that fullfills all the checkboxes of being an MMO, and that if a game doesn't fill all the exact same checkboxes as WoW then its not an MMO, while it will always be a point of dispute as to what does constitute an MMO, its not that simple after all.
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601
    edited December 2015
    Actually it is pretty simple, the words have been defined in the English language for many decades. Richard Garriot did redefine the words, or invent new words, he used words that are already in the language with meanings (marketing or not), to describe his game.

    And it has never meant large open areas. And if he believes WoW is the only true mmo, ignoring the one that arguably first defined MMO, well that is just sad.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Actually it is pretty simple, the words have been defined in the English language for many decades. Richard Garriot did redefine the words, or invent new words, he used words that are already in the language with meanings (marketing or not), to describe his game.

    And it has never meant large open areas. And if he believes WoW is the only true mmo, ignoring the one that arguably first defined MMO, well that is just sad.
    MMO = Massively Multiplayer Online, massively multiplayer afaik means we are literally talking about hundreds of players, thousdands even, playing at the same time, able to interact with each other in the same game, and being Online obviously, if a game can provide that, then technically it is an MMO, what we do have quite often is MMO's that have other features included, that seperate it into different categories of MMO's like Planetside 2 which is an MMOFPS, not sure what category Eve is, other than it is an MMO, and of course WoW which is an MMORPG, the first defined MMO however, was that Meridian 59? or UO, that Meridian 59 was released in 1995/96 probably means it is the earliest definition considering UO didn't release until 1997. That Meridian 59 alongside The Realm Online (1996) also heavily influenced Everquest is probably no coincidence, considering that game is reputed to have begun development also in 1996.
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601
    edited December 2015
    I'm not disputing whether the game is or is not an MMO, I don't know anything about it and it doesn't look interesting enough for me to bother finding out. I'm disputing his claim that an MMO is defined as having large open spaces and that WoW is the only true MMO.

    If his definition of an MMO is large open spaces and claims WoW is the only real MMO that is both funny and sad.

    And yes that is what MMO means - I completely agree.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • FdzzaiglFdzzaigl Member UncommonPosts: 2,433
    From what I gather this game has a persistent world and isn't just a series of instanced rooms connected to a hub. 

    So I'd say that's a pretty good fit for the classic MMO definition.

    Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    They are not developers, developer is Bluhole Zinno; korean company. And devilian is mmo in a sense that it has large open areas unlike instanced arpg we see. But if we really wanna nitpick, no it is not mmo, heck the only, one and only mmo in market currently is WoW.
    I don't see how Wow is more a massive multiplayer online roleplaying game than EQ2, GW2, Rift or a bunch of others on the market.

    Devillian is a MMO, maybe not a very good one (depending on what you like) but that have nothing to do with it.

    CORPGs have only instances and no open world like DDO, GW, STO and similar games, they have graphical hubs with other players though.

    I get the impression you don't actually know what a MMO is, Meridian 59, UO and EQ are the classical examples and they all have servers still up and running. I could understand if you stated that only UO was a MMO. That would be wrong but still have some logic to it because at least the term was coined for that game and if any game must therefor be a MMO it is UO.
  • DibdabsDibdabs Member RarePosts: 3,238
    It's a really run of the mill, game, considering all the publicity.  I played Beta for an hour or so and just abandoned it.  I felt like I'd played it for months, it was all so familiar and predictable.
  • AntiquatedAntiquated Member RarePosts: 1,415
    My constitutional right to not research and not be confused has been abridged! Alert the BBB!
  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    edited December 2015
    in before nariusseldon
  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    the game has rosie o'donnel mounts



  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,975
    Kiyoris said:
    in before nariusseldon
    Shh..."never let the devil know you are listening"

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    edited December 2015
    Loke666 said:
    They are not developers, developer is Bluhole Zinno; korean company. And devilian is mmo in a sense that it has large open areas unlike instanced arpg we see. But if we really wanna nitpick, no it is not mmo, heck the only, one and only mmo in market currently is WoW.
    I don't see how Wow is more a massive multiplayer online roleplaying game than EQ2, GW2, Rift or a bunch of others on the market.

    Devillian is a MMO, maybe not a very good one (depending on what you like) but that have nothing to do with it.

    CORPGs have only instances and no open world like DDO, GW, STO and similar games, they have graphical hubs with other players though.

    I get the impression you don't actually know what a MMO is, Meridian 59, UO and EQ are the classical examples and they all have servers still up and running. I could understand if you stated that only UO was a MMO. That would be wrong but still have some logic to it because at least the term was coined for that game and if any game must therefor be a MMO it is UO.
    Ohh i know what "MMO" is and means but if we are nitpicking then the only one would be WoW. Let's face it, does any of the mmo you mention have as vast world as WoW do? Or vast number of players all over world? Vast amount of group content? And so on and forth?

    UO was as much mmo as is any of the modern ones, rose tinted glass is not really a logical thing.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    Phry said:
    They are not developers, developer is Bluhole Zinno; korean company. And devilian is mmo in a sense that it has large open areas unlike instanced arpg we see. But if we really wanna nitpick, no it is not mmo, heck the only, one and only mmo in market currently is WoW.

    Everything about this post was both funny and sad
    its all about context, hopefully i am not the only one who understood him to be saying that if you limit the criteria so exactly, then you can end up with a single game like WoW for instance, that fullfills all the checkboxes of being an MMO, and that if a game doesn't fill all the exact same checkboxes as WoW then its not an MMO, while it will always be a point of dispute as to what does constitute an MMO, its not that simple after all.
    You describe the situation perfectly.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,227
    Ok... historically (if we can speak of history in this case) the massive part came as they supported more than the 24-48 simultaneous players that the online shooters (the then kings of online gaming) had. So it did not really dictate how many those where beyond "significantly more than a online shooter match" the other two words are self explanatory. =P 

    But there you go. =) 


    This have been a good conversation

  • PalaPala Member UncommonPosts: 360
    It is quiet simple, many players in a persistent world playing together. ie massively multiplayer online. 

    While Hearthstone is an online game and many people play it it is not an MMO, if you expand matches to 4v4, 8v8, 16v16 it still isnt an MMO, if you put 10 people in a room to kill a monster its still not an MMO.

    Really it is simple for anyone with a brain.

    There are many many MMOs with these features and WOW is not a definition of anything. 


  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    Robokapp said:
    DMKano said:

    Robokapp said:
    false advertising products as MMOs is something that needs more awareness. We must educate our fellow gamers so that they too may experience actual MMOs and not be delluded into the assumption that these bait and switch titles are anywhere near what an actual MMO is.

    props, OP.

    See you after the ban.

    It is not false advertising - you and OP don't actually know that Devilian supports up to 500 players in the same channel (think EQ2, AoC, TSW or any MMO that has channels).
    500...oh my.

    I've seen more players in ironforge AH.
    I did too, so let's agree that WoW is the only proper MMORPG in market now?

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • iZakaroNiZakaroN Member UncommonPosts: 719
    They are not developers, developer is Bluhole Zinno; korean company. And devilian is mmo in a sense that it has large open areas unlike instanced arpg we see. But if we really wanna nitpick, no it is not mmo, heck the only, one and only mmo in market currently is WoW.
    For me even WoW is not a MMO with all that instances. WoW stops to be MMO with introducing of Battlegrounds. WoW is the main reason nowdays ARPG games to be named MMOs.



    image


    Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
    ______\m/_____
    LordOfDarkDesire
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,857
    edited December 2015
    OK, I went and tried to use Google to see if I could find a "True MMO", "Real MMO" and an "Actual MMO" Seems there isn't any established definition for those terms. All these years, we've been operating all this time without knowing exactly what it is we are playing.
  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    iZakaroN said:
    They are not developers, developer is Bluhole Zinno; korean company. And devilian is mmo in a sense that it has large open areas unlike instanced arpg we see. But if we really wanna nitpick, no it is not mmo, heck the only, one and only mmo in market currently is WoW.
    For me even WoW is not a MMO with all that instances. WoW stops to be MMO with introducing of Battlegrounds. WoW is the main reason nowdays ARPG games to be named MMOs.
    Instanced battlground make a mmo "not mmo"? But battlegorunds are group content played by lots of players, some are even played by 40 on each side, tell me in your "real mmo" how many times did you actually have a battle where you saw 80 players fighting to victory?

    It is really a pointless argument, what is real mmo or true mmo or what is not. People who talk about this shit are usually suffering from "old days were the better days" syndrome.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    iZakaroN said:
    They are not developers, developer is Bluhole Zinno; korean company. And devilian is mmo in a sense that it has large open areas unlike instanced arpg we see. But if we really wanna nitpick, no it is not mmo, heck the only, one and only mmo in market currently is WoW.
    For me even WoW is not a MMO with all that instances. WoW stops to be MMO with introducing of Battlegrounds. WoW is the main reason nowdays ARPG games to be named MMOs.
    You need to read what @tawess posted, when in "golden" days people brought the term mmo, they were actually saying "hey look, we have a game where more people can play online than shooters". MMO never had any kind of definition but basic idea always was that an online game where a lot of people can play and communicate without being disintegrated from each other.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Robokapp said:
    false advertising products as MMOs is something that needs more awareness. 
    lol .. it is only false advertising if they use YOUR way of classifying MMOs.

    If they use the more common way (for example, the classification on THIS site), it is not. 

    It is not like most players CARE one way or the other. And I doubt the devs would care enough about the MMO police on an internet forum. 
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775


    I did too, so let's agree that WoW is the only proper MMORPG in market now?
    hmm ... the OP said MMO ... not MMORPG. Some here who are ultra sensitive to the literal interpretation of every word in a label will tell you they are not the same.


  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,198

    OK, I went and tried to use Google to see if I could find a "True MMO", "Real MMO" and an "Actual MMO" Seems there isn't any established definition for those terms. All these years, we've been operating all this time without knowing exactly what it is we are playing.
    Its been consistent... multiple players on a hosted persistent world server.  The number of players isn't defined but logistics almost always are going to have large numbers to justify having the persistent server. Logistics also defines that its not practical to have thousands of players playing in one matched base game.  .  The term MMORPG was linked with Persistent World Online if I remember correctly by Richard Garrett.    
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