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Dont Force PVP Players Do PVE
nerovergil
Member UncommonPosts: 680
Example in TESO, you need level 10 to go to pvp map, and in order to be strong in PVP, u need to grind PVE...this is a bad design
Example in Archeage, same with teso, you need to grind PVE, in order to be strong in PVP.
See how GW2 allow PVP players to do PVP in Structural PVP map and gain Levels!!! And since level 2 you can enter WVW!!!!!!!
I like PVE if playing single player offline, but when online, i like to interact, fight with other players!! i do like pve once in a blue moon, but many AAA MMMORPG nowadays like TESO and Archeage, force PVP players do PVE in order to be strong. THIS IS BAD DESIGN!!
Example in Archeage, same with teso, you need to grind PVE, in order to be strong in PVP.
See how GW2 allow PVP players to do PVP in Structural PVP map and gain Levels!!! And since level 2 you can enter WVW!!!!!!!
I like PVE if playing single player offline, but when online, i like to interact, fight with other players!! i do like pve once in a blue moon, but many AAA MMMORPG nowadays like TESO and Archeage, force PVP players do PVE in order to be strong. THIS IS BAD DESIGN!!
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MMORPGs are online extensions of RPGs therefore are heavily PvE focused (Leveling a Character/Skills is an RPG core mechanic).
If you want only PVP why do you want to go through a leveling game?
Moba are perfect, there is no leveling, the characters are balanced and the player make the real difference.
GW2 PvP is good (in your opinion) because basically is a MOBA.
It is a big battleground where you get to fight other factions with a pre-made character with standard gear for everyone.
These MMOs are actually a great design, since massive PvP only worlds have already been proven failures.
Take MAG for example (on PS3). It was an FPS that pitted 128 players against another 128 players per battle. It was huge, and it was fun, but that excitement only lasted so long. Eventually people stopped playing and they shut the servers down.
Smaller matches that don't require as many players per battle, such as MOBAs (League of Legends, World of Tanks, etc.) can survive because it only takes a couple dozen players to make a match.
PvP players simply can't support a massive, persistent world. An MMO has to have more, catering to people who enjoy PvE, socializing, crafting, etc. So, if you want it to be an MMO, then yeah, you have to also deal with those aspects of the game.
It's a solution more devs could pay attention to, the option to grab a max-leveled toon and hop in to PVP (or advance your own if you wanna). That option wasn't actually very popular, but a few folks did it.
But I do lean, generally, toward the "if you want it badly enough, you'll do the work--if not, try the game next door" faction. OP just needs a game with a short cap time.
It just sounds like you need to figure out the type of MMO you want to play and then find the one that offers the structure you're looking for instead of playing games that are set up in certain ways then complaining they are not set up the way you want them to be.
I think it is because in a FPS game any fight can go either way while in MMOs a lot of fights are win and lost due to gear and level no matter how good or bad you play.
I think we do need a few good PvP focused MMOs but most of the ones we seen so far are just not good enough. Eve and to some extent DaoC and SWG did a better job than the rest though for different reasons but none of them are enough to compete with PvE games.
I do think GW2 have the largest PvP community at the moment but PvE there is still far more popular so it is clearly not doing a good enough job either.
You need specific PvP mechanics that still go into the RPG part without messing up the games balance so much that any combat is pre-determined due to the powergap.
In PvE you never have to go into a fight you can't possibly win. So far have we seen really crappy tries to fix that with instancing the PvP away from the PvE or just ignoring it but there must be better ways to fix that. The first thing I would do is seriously restricting the power you gain as a player when you level up/gain XP. Then you must also have a far better balance with the gear.
I think the perfect powergap would be when a really great new player could barely defeat a badly playing vet with good gear.
Like my case with Archeage, i bought the early access alpha pack (i get really hyped!! the game graphic is amazing, women is sexy as pancake), i paid usd 100 or something like that, then i do the quest leveling unti reach lv 20++
Problem begin when the game launch, it reset everything, i need to redo all that PVE quest again!!!!! heck no!!! then i quit Archeage
This is the problem with PVE, all fun and game but has no repeat value. same goes with TESO, i would like to do 2nd character but im not willing to waste my time doing same quest all over again!!!..
differnt with guild war 2!!! i level up to lv 80 from lv 2 only playing wvw and spvp!!!! super fun!!! i can kill other high level player, even stomping them!!!! thats what fun!!!
i agree there must be pve, i play pve once a while, when i has no mood to fight, i play dungeon, fractual in gw2....
what i want is the developer to follow guild war 2 in term of pvp aspect in the future, who knows they will be Archeage 2!!! Teso 2!!!! even guild war 3 to continue its awesome tradiition
I get you like GW2 design, and I wish as well there were more games like GW2 (for people like you).
But when you start comparing GW2 with Archeage is when you lose the argument IMO.
Those 2 games are like Apples and Oranges, really.
Archeage has a World PvP, GW2 has an instanced PvP.
GW2 is basically 2 games in 1, a MOBA and a MMORPG in one, that kind of design allows for PvP to be completely independent from PvE.
Another thing is implementing your ideas to a game like Archeage.
You cannot separate PvE from PvP in an open world game it is just no possible.
Of course you can try to make a full open word PvP where you level just by killing other players, but I am not sure about its longevity.
Once the top PvPers will start getting the upper hand and will have their character many levels above everyone else, the rest will feel they would never be able to catch up and quit.
PvE leveling, give the chance to the average PvPer to grind some PvE and catch up with a more developed PvP character, so they can be more competitive and they are not going to be humiliated by the huge gap between the characters.
On another note if you suggest to completely scrap the leveling all together, than you cannot label that game a MMORPG and your best option is either a MOBA or an hybrid like GW2.
But you cannot have an open world game like Archeage with the kind of features you are suggesting.
PS
Games like EvE are ofc evil ;]
Though I can understand your frustration though(As someone who likes crafting), It's just different playing a game that is designed to be MMO, compared to a game that is just multiplayer (Minecraft compared to WurmOnline).
It's sadly going to be about choosing games that are smaller/indy and different for you. Even then you're still gonna be stuck with D&D mechanics as the devs try to cast a net to capture those players as well.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
Sure there are some hybrids trying to appeal to those in the middle ... but again, if you are not those in the middle, why bother with those hybrid pve/pvp games. There are so many games to choose from.
PvP base probably isn't thrilled with PvE, and the other side of that coin would be PvE not being thrilled with PvP.
Perhaps the two styles shouldn't be forced to be together. In an unpleasant digital abomination of a balance nightmare.
Lol, WoT and lots of other games are pvp only.
Warframe, marvel heroes (and even D3 .. whether we are talking about games, or MMO) are pve only.
There are choices if you don't want to mix them.
If I call you all a bunch of assholes I get the infraction though. =\
OP, I suggest keeping up with Crowfall. Right now it seems to be what you're looking for. I feel your pain on TESO and Archeage though. I myself am a hybrid. I like PVE and PVP, but I don't like being REQUIRED to grind PVE to have a fair fight in conflict situations. It's annoying.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯