well He can design a game. He can't run a business.
That's my assessment. ......
Brad took Chris Rowan (who is the Chairman and Chief Executive Officer) on board to run the business side of VRI.
As to the topic of this thread: "This is the only game that counts" I have to agree that I feel that this is the only game on my radar now too. Currently, It is the only game I am looking forward to. Everything else that had me excited is turning out to be P2W.
So far the number of crowd funded MMORPGs that actually matter are? (Hint: zero)
When this game releases........IF this game releases......THEN we will see how much it matters.And it's not just this game, It's all of them. MMORPGs are just too dam big to be crowd funded properly. And on top of that, it's by a guy with a history of not being able to manage a vision.
Too many things have to happen between now and "matters". Like 1. releasigthe game. 2. releasing the game that actually works. 3. Releasing a game that actually delivers what was promised.
Fully funded studios can't seem to manage that......how's a guy with limited funding and a bad track record going to fare?
I think your assessment of Brads history and ability in the industry is a bit biased to a given position.
well He can design a game. He can't run a business.
That's my assessment.
I have my doubts about this game as well as Star Citizen. I'd love to play both of those dreams as pitched. Unfortunately, I'm too damned cynical to believe we will ever get those dreams. Oh sure, I've no doubt we'll get to play a space sim called Star Citizen and maybe even an MMORPG called Pantheon. But I doubt they will be the games as they are currently hyped.
He is designing the game, he is not running the business (VR).
I understand your concerns, if you have read my discussions with people here, then you know I am very quick to cut down mainstream appeal and suggestions. I too share some cynicism, but I am also practical and understand that this can work, providing they stick to the goals. Time will tell, all we can do is wait.
As for SC, I followed it early on, but I despise the PTW crap they have in the game. The only thing I look forward to is the single player game and the possibility of hosting my own server. Past that, I could care less about the monetized gimmick that the persistent world has become. You can already see the game is being pushed by the EvE crowd. No interest in that type of game or that community. More power to them though, as long as I don't have to deal with them, I don't care.
I couldn't agree more delete5230, PVE is the way to go, its far more popular.
I disagree - MOBAs and arena fps shooters are all PvP games and are FAR more popular than all MMORPGa put together.
The key difference is short session gameplay which both MOBAs and FPS arena shooters nail in a huge way.
The feature that old vets want the most (spending 100's of hours in a virtual world) is exactly what masses don't want. This is what's keeping mmorpgs niche.
"keeping"? They always were, and probably always will be. What we have seen and labeld as a failure in the genre, is games being marked to the wrong crowd and the "exodus" that followed was nothing more than a "normalization" With very few exceptions. And selling millions of boxes doesn't count if players weren't retained. It just means a niche game was able to capitalize on hype.
Exactly! MMORPGs and PC gaming were always a niche crowd. WoWs millions of subs was a fad anomaly formed of the console crowd and the "oh, you can play a game on the internetz with other people? That's fancy!" Now that crowd is moving on to the next fad and the market is starting to fall back to its previous numbers (thankfully).
This. This is what it always was. WoW is the exception not the rule. MMOs survived as niche suites where nerds congregated and fapped together over exp grinding and pixelated lootz and ToDs not some jaunt from quest hub to quest hub solo like near everything to have grown out of the burned and salted wasteland that WoW left of the landscape. Hell if people are still playing through games like EQ and FFXI and their broken ass mechanics and worlds where bugs that have existed since launch still plague the games there's no reason to think those nerds wouldn't congregate at a freshly realized version of such a world with better working systems and updated toolsets.
So far the number of crowd funded MMORPGs that actually matter are? (Hint: zero)
When this game releases........IF this game releases......THEN we will see how much it matters.And it's not just this game, It's all of them. MMORPGs are just too dam big to be crowd funded properly. And on top of that, it's by a guy with a history of not being able to manage a vision.
Too many things have to happen between now and "matters". Like 1. releasigthe game. 2. releasing the game that actually works. 3. Releasing a game that actually delivers what was promised.
Fully funded studios can't seem to manage that......how's a guy with limited funding and a bad track record going to fare?
I think your assessment of Brads history and ability in the industry is a bit biased to a given position.
Unfortunately this is an uphill argument. I'd just leave it. What I see is a visionary who is trying to create a dream game. He's doing it on a shoestring budget and they're pushing stuff out....slowly. Pantheon will likely suffer from SCitis where doom and gloom will hang over it until it's ultimately released. Why? Well, it's crowdfunded, so there's a heightened sense of entitlement, it is/was run by a visionary in the genre, so expectations will be completely unrealistic, and BM made some bad choices after their initial funding which immediately validated any and all concerns that doomers and gloomers had about his past. Ultimately, it'll get made but it'll be a road filled with gigantic pot holes and booby traps.
So far the number of crowd funded MMORPGs that actually matter are? (Hint: zero)
When this game releases........IF this game releases......THEN we will see how much it matters.And it's not just this game, It's all of them. MMORPGs are just too dam big to be crowd funded properly. And on top of that, it's by a guy with a history of not being able to manage a vision.
Too many things have to happen between now and "matters". Like 1. releasigthe game. 2. releasing the game that actually works. 3. Releasing a game that actually delivers what was promised.
Fully funded studios can't seem to manage that......how's a guy with limited funding and a bad track record going to fare?
I think your assessment of Brads history and ability in the industry is a bit biased to a given position.
well He can design a game. He can't run a business.
That's my assessment.
I have my doubts about this game as well as Star Citizen. I'd love to play both of those dreams as pitched. Unfortunately, I'm too damned cynical to believe we will ever get those dreams. Oh sure, I've no doubt we'll get to play a space sim called Star Citizen and maybe even an MMORPG called Pantheon. But I doubt they will be the games as they are currently hyped.
He is designing the game, he is not running the business (VR).
I understand your concerns, if you have read my discussions with people here, then you know I am very quick to cut down mainstream appeal and suggestions. I too share some cynicism, but I am also practical and understand that this can work, providing they stick to the goals. Time will tell, all we can do is wait.
As for SC, I followed it early on, but I despise the PTW crap they have in the game. The only thing I look forward to is the single player game and the possibility of hosting my own server. Past that, I could care less about the monetized gimmick that the persistent world has become. You can already see the game is being pushed by the EvE crowd. No interest in that type of game or that community. More power to them though, as long as I don't have to deal with them, I don't care.
If I had to say one thing to Brad, it would be this: Please, Brad, debunk my cynicism. Prove me wrong!
Unfortunately this is an uphill argument. I'd just leave it. What I see is a visionary who is trying to create a dream game. He's doing it on a shoestring budget and they're pushing stuff out....slowly. Pantheon will likely suffer from SCitis where doom and gloom will hang over it until it's ultimately released. Why? Well, it's crowdfunded, so there's a heightened sense of entitlement, it is/was run by a visionary in the genre, so expectations will be completely unrealistic, and BM made some bad choices after their initial funding which immediately validated any and all concerns that doomers and gloomers had about his past. Ultimately, it'll get made but it'll be a road filled with gigantic pot holes and booby traps.
Pantheon is actually not only crowdfunded now. They have an investor and those who were previously donating their time are on payroll.
Usually I find @delete5230 posts to be a little out there, but other than a few exaggerations, he is on the money. If it wasn't for Pantheon, I wouldn't even log in to these forums. While I am happy to see that indie developers other than Visionary Realms (VR) are breaking away from the mainstream to create something they're passionate about, many of them are promising pie in the sky or clearly lack the tools and understanding to deliver. VR (Pantheon), on the other hand, are sticking to what works, building on a good foundation rather than hope and unproven mechanics.
I wouldn't say this is the only game that counts, but I am certainly looking forward to it. Also keeping an eye on Crowfall, that's about it for me. I think it will be back to pre 2004 timeline on the amount of mmorpgs released in a given year. Big money is moving towards MOBAs and shooters. Most likely the major crowd that came in with World of Warcraft will head out with them in the next 5 years. Games like Pantheon are the future from what I can see (Small projects without insane budgets and graphics) but it's not the only game that matters.
So far the number of crowd funded MMORPGs that actually matter are? (Hint: zero)
When this game releases........IF this game releases......THEN we will see how much it matters.And it's not just this game, It's all of them. MMORPGs are just too dam big to be crowd funded properly. And on top of that, it's by a guy with a history of not being able to manage a vision.
Too many things have to happen between now and "matters". Like 1. releasigthe game. 2. releasing the game that actually works. 3. Releasing a game that actually delivers what was promised.
Fully funded studios can't seem to manage that......how's a guy with limited funding and a bad track record going to fare?
I'm really not sure that's true. If you look at EQ, it took roughly 3 million for the initial development. Even accounting for inflation, that's not that much. Also, they didn't have the content creation tools that we have now. Things like Unity and Unreal engine and such make content generation SO MUCH faster/cheaper/easier than back in those days.
This idea that MMO's have to be these 100 million dollar 200 person team affairs is literally just a result of Blizzard and more recently Bioware being extremely inefficient and extremely wasteful with development resources, such as in the case of Bioware putting stupid amounts of voice acting into the game. Which overall really add very little to the game, however took an exorbitant amount of time and money to do.
Another part of the issue with development costs is they have to create SO MUCH content because the modern MMO game design revolves around this content locust single player mentality where a person logs in and just burns through a bunch of quests and shit without ever talking to another person. So if you're having to create enough quest chains and quest hubs and such for people to level from 1 to 50, etc, that's yet more development resources you're wasting on content that will (basically) get used 1 time and never again.
By going back to a more "old school" ideology and actually requiring and promoting group content to advance your character's levels/gear/etc, you are being much much more efficient with the content you are making, and not wasting significant development resources and time on for what is all intents and purposes bullshit fluff. Its like paying $20 for a huge bag of candy or $20 for a bunch of ground beef. One is wasteful and doesn't do much as far as satiating you, the other can be used in a myriad of dishes, is satiating and provides nutrients and protein that your body needs.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
So far the number of crowd funded MMORPGs that actually matter are? (Hint: zero)
When this game releases........IF this game releases......THEN we will see how much it matters.And it's not just this game, It's all of them. MMORPGs are just too dam big to be crowd funded properly. And on top of that, it's by a guy with a history of not being able to manage a vision.
Too many things have to happen between now and "matters". Like 1. releasigthe game. 2. releasing the game that actually works. 3. Releasing a game that actually delivers what was promised.
Fully funded studios can't seem to manage that......how's a guy with limited funding and a bad track record going to fare?
I think your assessment of Brads history and ability in the industry is a bit biased to a given position.
I love how one "failed" project means someone has a "bad track record". You know cus the massive success that EQ was and subsequent expansions, etc, is totally wiped out by Vanguard, which wasn't nearly as bad as everyone acts like it was. Let's not mention Brad has been very candid and honest about his failings on that and overall what caused Vanguard to release in the state that it was.
Its not like Brad made some massive POS like APB or SWTOR (relative to the amount of money spent on development, and relative reception of the game by people who weren't blinded by the Star Wars IP and willing to forgive anything)
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
So despite the presence of many extremely strong P2P, F2P, and B2P titles in the market today, the game being developed at a snail's pace by a washed up has-been who has one success and a string of failures to his name, is the only one that 'counts'.
Okay, good luck with that I suppose.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
So despite the presence of many extremely strong P2P, F2P, and B2P titles in the market today, the game being developed at a snail's pace by a washed up has-been who has one success and a string of failures to his name, is the only one that 'counts'.
Okay, good luck with that I suppose.
Then you should have no care or concern about it then. Move along!
So despite the presence of many extremely strong P2P, F2P, and B2P titles in the market today, the game being developed at a snail's pace by a washed up has-been who has one success and a string of failures to his name, is the only one that 'counts'.
Okay, good luck with that I suppose.
Care to list those "Extremely strong" MMORPGs you are taliking about, maybe the right term you were looking for was "Mediocre" (as in, not too bad, not too good) All I can see are some games doing OK, I don't see any publishers boasting big numbers though, they all look quite sheepish about it.
Also regarding McQuaid, what are those "strings" of failures? Maybe Vanguard? That would be one, were is the rest of the string? And even Vanguard wasn't a failure in design, it was a failure in management and McQuaid paid in first person by being forced to take a long break of several years after that. He made a mistake and paid the consequences, hopefully he learnt from it, maybe he didn't, time will tell. Never than less he deserves a second chance, like everyone else.
You don't like Pantheon design? You are entitled to. But this BS about McQuaid is getting old now.
So despite the presence of many extremely strong P2P, F2P, and B2P titles in the market today, the game being developed at a snail's pace by a washed up has-been who has one success and a string of failures to his name, is the only one that 'counts'.
Okay, good luck with that I suppose.
At least you're consistent: exaggerate the positives, exaggerate the negatives.
Truth is, there is 1 "extremely strong" P2P MMO, and maybe 1 other that could be classified as good (financially). The rest are struggling in plain sight. The supposed has been did have a (as in one) less than successful game (that lasted 7 years), but is still pretty much responsible for catapulting this genre onto the map with EverQuest (and indirectly other things like the very forums we're posting on).
The Pub at MMORPG.COM - Majority of posters slam all games, except their favorite, assuming they even have one.
Individual game focused Forums - Are dead, or people are complaining how bad they are ( Most are about cash shops), or have fans who unequivocally stick up for the title regardless of any flaws that are pointed out.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I definitely think Pantheon has the most to offer people who enjoyed old school style mmos, or who did not have that opportunity (in their heyday) and want to try one now. That's why I keep my eye on this project. And sure, not everything Brad has touched has turned to gold. But a lot of it has - more than most.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Pantheon is the game ive been waiting for for almost 10 years now. I honestly dont care about any of the drama all I want is a game that is enjoyable to play. In fact if they can deliver on the core values of this game than i will take Brad out to the club and we can do lines off a strippers butt.
As this game appears to be designed around PVE and not around
territory and resource control it's not really a title I'm looking
forward to.
I would love to see that, too, but not at the cost of not having a great PvE game as well. PRotF will be primarily a PvE game and should be brilliant at that first and foremost.
Depending upon how much Pantheon will be a success, I expect special servers set up as well, such as:
- PvP (as in FFA/free for all PvP) - Racial PvP (maybe Humans, Elves, Halfling vs Dwarves, Gnomes, Archai vs Dark Myr, Ogres, Skar ?) - Roleplaying (more strict rules about roleplaying, such as stronger enforcement of good character names) - Hardcore (harsher environment, stronger death penalty, slower leveling, increased travel times etc)
At least initially it will be like in Vanguard - vastly unbalanced. But some people seem to massively enjoy this, so I expect a return of this. And again, if PRotF will be a success ... they will probably start implementing a better PvP system, too. At least thats what I would do.
As this game appears to be designed around PVE and not around
territory and resource control it's not really a title I'm looking
forward to.
I would love to see that, too, but not at the cost of not having a great PvE game as well. PRotF will be primarily a PvE game and should be brilliant at that first and foremost.
Depending upon how much Pantheon will be a success, I expect special servers set up as well, such as:
- PvP (as in FFA/free for all PvP) - Racial PvP (maybe Humans, Elves, Halfling vs Dwarves, Gnomes, Archai vs Dark Myr, Ogres, Skar ?) - Roleplaying (more strict rules about roleplaying, such as stronger enforcement of good character names) - Hardcore (harsher environment, stronger death penalty, slower leveling, increased travel times etc)
At least initially it will be like in Vanguard - vastly unbalanced. But some people seem to massively enjoy this, so I expect a return of this. And again, if PRotF will be a success ... they will probably start implementing a better PvP system, too. At least thats what I would do.
As I've told @Kyleran in the past, there will be PvP, but the game isn't designed around PvP (nor should it be). When games are designed for PvP first, the rest of the game is shallow and becomes boring to the average player that wants to enjoy other activities in a virtual world outside of fighting other players.
PvP in a game like Pantheon will be about resource and territory control, just as PvP in EQ was, only the resources won't be nodes of materials in the world, but content that yields the resources (items/materials) to progress. Need to get upgrades from a dungeon? You will be fighting for that territory (dungeon) or the surrounding area for rights to get those items. In guild vs guild scenarios we would often have 50+ people holding down multiple zones in order to protect our main force that was farming a dungeon or going after a raid boss. That is real PvP with a purpose.
Well, I think the main point of PvP is to have fun figthing other players, no matter which motivation, really.
And what you describe is the worst variant of PvP for me: an equivalent of ganking newbies, i.e. killing the game for other players. Thats a huge no-no to me.
Well, I think the main point of PvP is to have fun figthing other players, no matter which motivation, really.
And what you describe is the worst variant of PvP for me: an equivalent of ganking newbies, i.e. killing the game for other players. Thats a huge no-no to me.
Character creation >>> Starting zone, with tutorial >>> Quest 1 >>> Quest 2 >>> Quest 3 (use the cash shop) >>> Quest 4 >>> Quest 5 >>> Que for Dungeon >>> Quest 6 >>> Que for PvP.
This style is cheap to make with less content than ever before. Developers found a neat little trick, stating "this is what players are asking for". How can you argue that ?....Will you invest thousands to prove them wrong ?....They know full well you can't.
This is standard, no deviation from it
Pantheon Rise of the Fallen seems to look past that by using old school. It's been so long since we had a real mmo that you can actually call it NEW SCHOOL !!!!!.......The system worked well, no one complained. Yet developers changed the formula to Quest 1 >>> Quest 2 because it's cheap.
Old School doesn't have to be old, were not talking stick figures and dotted black hallways here like the stigma suggest. This stigma is something that you posters made up !!
It's sad that Brad and his team have to use kick starters as a formula for funding. But this is the only option to keep the greedy investors from taking 80% of the pie. Leaving the game with Quest 1 >>> Quest 2.
Hats off to Brad and Visionary Realms
This has to be some of the most profoundly incorrect information I've ever seen on this site.
WoW style MMOs that fill every inch of map with quests are far more more expensive to make than oldschool EQ1 style content. WoW cost vastly more to make than any of predecessors because of that quest system, not less.
EQ at it's peak had almost half a million subscribers. WoW at it's peak had 24 times that. WoW made more money for it's investors because it had far more subscribers not because it was cheaper to make. People emulated WoW because they wanted to steal millions of subscribers from WoW not because it was cheap to make. SWTOR didn't cost $300 million because the WoW formula is super cheap.
I know this is a hard concept to understand but just because you like something less does not make it cost less to make.
Comments
The world is full of sucky things...
As to the topic of this thread: "This is the only game that counts"
I have to agree that I feel that this is the only game on my radar now too. Currently, It is the only game I am looking forward to. Everything else that had me excited is turning out to be P2W.
He is designing the game, he is not running the business (VR).
I understand your concerns, if you have read my discussions with people here, then you know I am very quick to cut down mainstream appeal and suggestions. I too share some cynicism, but I am also practical and understand that this can work, providing they stick to the goals. Time will tell, all we can do is wait.
As for SC, I followed it early on, but I despise the PTW crap they have in the game. The only thing I look forward to is the single player game and the possibility of hosting my own server. Past that, I could care less about the monetized gimmick that the persistent world has become. You can already see the game is being pushed by the EvE crowd. No interest in that type of game or that community. More power to them though, as long as I don't have to deal with them, I don't care.
Unfortunately this is an uphill argument. I'd just leave it. What I see is a visionary who is trying to create a dream game. He's doing it on a shoestring budget and they're pushing stuff out....slowly. Pantheon will likely suffer from SCitis where doom and gloom will hang over it until it's ultimately released. Why? Well, it's crowdfunded, so there's a heightened sense of entitlement, it is/was run by a visionary in the genre, so expectations will be completely unrealistic, and BM made some bad choices after their initial funding which immediately validated any and all concerns that doomers and gloomers had about his past. Ultimately, it'll get made but it'll be a road filled with gigantic pot holes and booby traps.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Please, Brad, debunk my cynicism. Prove me wrong!
Usually I find @delete5230 posts to be a little out there, but other than a few exaggerations, he is on the money. If it wasn't for Pantheon, I wouldn't even log in to these forums. While I am happy to see that indie developers other than Visionary Realms (VR) are breaking away from the mainstream to create something they're passionate about, many of them are promising pie in the sky or clearly lack the tools and understanding to deliver. VR (Pantheon), on the other hand, are sticking to what works, building on a good foundation rather than hope and unproven mechanics.
So at this point, its Pantheon or bust.
This idea that MMO's have to be these 100 million dollar 200 person team affairs is literally just a result of Blizzard and more recently Bioware being extremely inefficient and extremely wasteful with development resources, such as in the case of Bioware putting stupid amounts of voice acting into the game. Which overall really add very little to the game, however took an exorbitant amount of time and money to do.
Another part of the issue with development costs is they have to create SO MUCH content because the modern MMO game design revolves around this content locust single player mentality where a person logs in and just burns through a bunch of quests and shit without ever talking to another person. So if you're having to create enough quest chains and quest hubs and such for people to level from 1 to 50, etc, that's yet more development resources you're wasting on content that will (basically) get used 1 time and never again.
By going back to a more "old school" ideology and actually requiring and promoting group content to advance your character's levels/gear/etc, you are being much much more efficient with the content you are making, and not wasting significant development resources and time on for what is all intents and purposes bullshit fluff. Its like paying $20 for a huge bag of candy or $20 for a bunch of ground beef. One is wasteful and doesn't do much as far as satiating you, the other can be used in a myriad of dishes, is satiating and provides nutrients and protein that your body needs.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
Its not like Brad made some massive POS like APB or SWTOR (relative to the amount of money spent on development, and relative reception of the game by people who weren't blinded by the Star Wars IP and willing to forgive anything)
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
"This may hurt a little, but it's something you'll get used to. Relax....."
Okay, good luck with that I suppose.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
All I can see are some games doing OK, I don't see any publishers boasting big numbers though, they all look quite sheepish about it.
Also regarding McQuaid, what are those "strings" of failures?
Maybe Vanguard? That would be one, were is the rest of the string?
And even Vanguard wasn't a failure in design, it was a failure in management and McQuaid paid in first person by being forced to take a long break of several years after that.
He made a mistake and paid the consequences, hopefully he learnt from it, maybe he didn't, time will tell.
Never than less he deserves a second chance, like everyone else.
You don't like Pantheon design?
You are entitled to.
But this BS about McQuaid is getting old now.
Truth is, there is 1 "extremely strong" P2P MMO, and maybe 1 other that could be classified as good (financially). The rest are struggling in plain sight. The supposed has been did have a (as in one) less than successful game (that lasted 7 years), but is still pretty much responsible for catapulting this genre onto the map with EverQuest (and indirectly other things like the very forums we're posting on).
Now is a good time to get a grip on reality.
Observation:
The Pub at MMORPG.COM - Majority of posters stick up for all games.
Individual game focused Forums - Are dead, or people are complaining how bad they are ( Most are about cash shops).
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I would love to see that, too, but not at the cost of not having a great PvE game as well. PRotF will be primarily a PvE game and should be brilliant at that first and foremost.
Depending upon how much Pantheon will be a success, I expect special servers set up as well, such as:
- PvP (as in FFA/free for all PvP)
- Racial PvP (maybe Humans, Elves, Halfling vs Dwarves, Gnomes, Archai vs Dark Myr, Ogres, Skar ?)
- Roleplaying (more strict rules about roleplaying, such as stronger enforcement of good character names)
- Hardcore (harsher environment, stronger death penalty, slower leveling, increased travel times etc)
And, depending upon even more success, also:
- Hardcore PvP
- Hardcore Racial PvP
- Roleplaying PvP
- Roleplaying Racial PvP
- Roleplaying Hardcore
- Roleplaying Hardcore PvP
- Roleplaying Hardcore Racial PvP
At least initially it will be like in Vanguard - vastly unbalanced. But some people seem to massively enjoy this, so I expect a return of this. And again, if PRotF will be a success ... they will probably start implementing a better PvP system, too. At least thats what I would do.
PvP in a game like Pantheon will be about resource and territory control, just as PvP in EQ was, only the resources won't be nodes of materials in the world, but content that yields the resources (items/materials) to progress. Need to get upgrades from a dungeon? You will be fighting for that territory (dungeon) or the surrounding area for rights to get those items. In guild vs guild scenarios we would often have 50+ people holding down multiple zones in order to protect our main force that was farming a dungeon or going after a raid boss. That is real PvP with a purpose.
And what you describe is the worst variant of PvP for me: an equivalent of ganking newbies, i.e. killing the game for other players. Thats a huge no-no to me.
And what you describe is the worst variant of PvP for me: an equivalent of ganking newbies, i.e. killing the game for other players. Thats a huge no-no to me.
WoW style MMOs that fill every inch of map with quests are far more more expensive to make than oldschool EQ1 style content. WoW cost vastly more to make than any of predecessors because of that quest system, not less.
EQ at it's peak had almost half a million subscribers. WoW at it's peak had 24 times that. WoW made more money for it's investors because it had far more subscribers not because it was cheaper to make. People emulated WoW because they wanted to steal millions of subscribers from WoW not because it was cheap to make. SWTOR didn't cost $300 million because the WoW formula is super cheap.
I know this is a hard concept to understand but just because you like something less does not make it cost less to make.