Because it lacks significant end game pve content. However it will take longer than 2-3 weeks before you start seeing a real drop off in population... I'd say around 2 months. That said it won't be deserted, he's just an angry child. I just don't understand why people insist on spreading their negativity as much as possible.
BDO is not a PvE game. It's an open world PvP sandbox. Why would you ever come here for PvE content? It will last a long time because it's the PvP game that many of us have been waiting for and this genre lacking for a long time, and it's non-PvP sandboxy elements are complex and varied and attract another crowd lacking in a good game right now. No, it's not for the PvE crowd because every other game out there is for the PvE crowd.
Actually more and more games that are coming out seem to be leaning more toward pvp centric or sandboxy...
*easy gameplay *action button mashing *no community *game is deserted after 2 weeks
I see all the telltale signs of a very bad MMO in Black Desert.
As opposed to a Tank holding aggro, getting healed so there is no worry about dying and the damage dealers burning down the mobs before the tank loses aggro.
Yup that's "oh so complex".
Actually it is... I mean what's the alternative everyone is DPS and just zerg down the mob?
And it's not conceivable to have a no trinity game where every player is responsible for utilizing multiple skills in order to achieve whatever objective?
Taking out the tank means that anyone and everyone has a role to play and anyone and everyone can be a major part of the success or failure and just in complete specific ways like "I'm tank, I'm healer, I'm damage dealer".
It's just the game design that needs to be clever.
This is not to say I'm against trinity games but saying that Trinity is superior seems really silly to me. Or complex just because there is a tank, healer and damage dealers seems silly to me.
A bad company could literally have one button for the tank, one button for the healer an done button for the damage dealers and it being "Trinity" would not make it complex. It's what everyone does in the group, no matter whether it's Trinity or no Trinity that matters.
Seriously give it up.
Give what up? Everything he's saying makes perfect sense. I like both trinity and no trinity games. However, saying that one is easier then the other is pure stupidity.
What Kyoris is saying is dumb in it's own. You're saying EQ's trinity is harder because you stood in one spot and button mashed 30 skills. First, having 30 skills for you to use in a game is fucking stupid. That's way most games don't do it anymore. It's a thing of the past and was stupid then. Second, you are literally just standing there mashing buttons. How is that hard or requires skill? It doesn't! It doesn't require you to have a better understanding of how to play your character. It just means that you can read what they skills do. Congrats! You're literate.
Either of these play styles are hard or more rewarding then the other. They are just different. Shit people this is gaming really who gives a shit? As long as you're having fun that's all that matters.
no healers, seems to be the newest trend in MMO nowadays. i think the holy Trinity worked great. but by doing so the game becomes more casual. and less group oriented. no wonder why people gets bored so quick.
The problem is when you replace the trinity group dynamics with no group dynamics. Anoyone who think a MMO must have trinity group dynamics have no imagination, group dynamics is all about having a combat system which means that timing things together is the key to succeed.
If you have someone constantly healing all other players or if there is zero healing in combat and you need to defend eachother to not die really doesn't matter as long it is fun. Group dynamics is all about working together for a greater purpose.
The problem with MMO players is that we tend to be far too traditional and afraid to try out new things but that just leads to the tired clones of games we already played. I am not saying that Black desert is doing a good job here though, I havn't tried it yet but the future of MMOs is new kinds of group dynamics, something that offer a fun and co-operative experience we havn't already experienced for many years.
So far are the none trinity combat we seen a bit lacking, about where the trinity was when Meridian 59 released but sooner or later we will get at least one system good enough and that will be when we finally get a true next generation MMO. That is a must to get MMORPGs to survive for another 20 years. You can add all amazing features you want to a trinity game but you will still just have a polished up improved version of M59.
The holy trinity was a great idea but you can only base so many games on the same great idea. That is at least my opinion.
Devs figured out that can make a single player rpg and call it a MMORPG
and charge a monthly fee on top of the box price. Most of the people who
champion the anti-trinity cause just want people around to stroke their
epeen, for the most part everyone else in game is viewed as a NPC they
have to deal with to enjoy their "solo but look at me go" play style.
If there is no community, there is no MMO....it's just a single player RPG with a show off my gear lobby. Game after game after game fails because of lack of community. The most successful games have community. This action combat every man for himself simply kills community. Bring back niche roles and group dependency and you will see an emergence of community again. Community is what makes games successful in this genre. This is what developers are missing. I don't want to be the most bad ass twitch guy that runs around by myself, I want to have a group of friends that I develop badass chemistry and synergy with, becoming a wrecking crew TOGETHER. This is why we play MMOs
*easy gameplay *action button mashing *no community *game is deserted after 2 weeks
I see all the telltale signs of a very bad MMO in Black Desert.
As opposed to a Tank holding aggro, getting healed so there is no worry about dying and the damage dealers burning down the mobs before the tank loses aggro.
Yup that's "oh so complex".
Actually it is... I mean what's the alternative everyone is DPS and just zerg down the mob?
And it's not conceivable to have a no trinity game where every player is responsible for utilizing multiple skills in order to achieve whatever objective?
Taking out the tank means that anyone and everyone has a role to play and anyone and everyone can be a major part of the success or failure and just in complete specific ways like "I'm tank, I'm healer, I'm damage dealer".
It's just the game design that needs to be clever.
This is not to say I'm against trinity games but saying that Trinity is superior seems really silly to me. Or complex just because there is a tank, healer and damage dealers seems silly to me.
A bad company could literally have one button for the tank, one button for the healer an done button for the damage dealers and it being "Trinity" would not make it complex. It's what everyone does in the group, no matter whether it's Trinity or no Trinity that matters.
Seriously give it up.
Give what up? Everything he's saying makes perfect sense. I like both trinity and no trinity games. However, saying that one is easier then the other is pure stupidity.
What Kyoris is saying is dumb in it's own. You're saying EQ's trinity is harder because you stood in one spot and button mashed 30 skills. First, having 30 skills for you to use in a game is fucking stupid. That's way most games don't do it anymore. It's a thing of the past and was stupid then. Second, you are literally just standing there mashing buttons. How is that hard or requires skill? It doesn't! It doesn't require you to have a better understanding of how to play your character. It just means that you can read what they skills do. Congrats! You're literate.
Either of these play styles are hard or more rewarding then the other. They are just different. Shit people this is gaming really who gives a shit? As long as you're having fun that's all that matters.
Thank you sir, you got it.
Also Loke666 makes good points.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Because it lacks significant end game pve content. However it will take longer than 2-3 weeks before you start seeing a real drop off in population... I'd say around 2 months. That said it won't be deserted, he's just an angry child. I just don't understand why people insist on spreading their negativity as much as possible.
BDO is not a PvE game. It's an open world PvP sandbox. Why would you ever come here for PvE content? It will last a long time because it's the PvP game that many of us have been waiting for and this genre lacking for a long time, and it's non-PvP sandboxy elements are complex and varied and attract another crowd lacking in a good game right now. No, it's not for the PvE crowd because every other game out there is for the PvE crowd.
its a pvp game with soo many restrictions and punishment for killing other players its not even worth to do pvp, if you thinking about gvg forget it becouse it costs insane amount of money
*easy gameplay *action button mashing *no community *game is deserted after 2 weeks
I see all the telltale signs of a very bad MMO in Black Desert.
As opposed to a Tank holding aggro, getting healed so there is no worry about dying and the damage dealers burning down the mobs before the tank loses aggro.
*easy gameplay *action button mashing *no community *game is deserted after 2 weeks
I see all the telltale signs of a very bad MMO in Black Desert.
As opposed to a Tank holding aggro, getting healed so there is no worry about dying and the damage dealers burning down the mobs before the tank loses aggro.
Yup that's "oh so complex".
Actually it is... I mean what's the alternative everyone is DPS and just zerg down the mob?
Yes this is what its boiled down to. Every class is just another flavor of DPS and you zerg to win. Maybe BD is the first to get the no trinity game down right. To this point I have yet to play an action combat game that was not about pure zerging. Up till now, only place that complex battle plans are the norm were trinity games. And its not Tank, Heal and DPS burn. Its Tank, Off Tank, CC, different type of healer being used for their class skills, HoT, Splash heals a buffs. DPS needing to burn and stop DPS when its called for. I have yet to see an action combat MMO have the depth of any trinity game I have played. My hope is one day they get its not mutually exclusive. Parts of action combat and trinity class system can be married.
I'm okay with having no healers, no tanks, or even no to both. But you have to have varied gameplay between classes. The GW2 of having everyone be a quasi hybrid class is horrid, and I really hope that's not the route they take. I'd much rather have a City of Heroes type system where you have a bunch of different character types, and can generally do almost any combination of them, but rarely or any never need certain ones.
*easy gameplay *action button mashing *no community *game is deserted after 2 weeks
I see all the telltale signs of a very bad MMO in Black Desert.
As opposed to a Tank holding aggro, getting healed so there is no worry about dying and the damage dealers burning down the mobs before the tank loses aggro.
Yup that's "oh so complex".
Ever been to Plane of Hate or Plane of Fear?
That's not really the point. There's no reason why a "Plane of Hate" or "Plane of Fear" style area couldn't be made for a non-Trinity game. Just because an area is challenging doesn't preclude another "non-trinity" system from being able to handle it.
To that end I'll point back to Kickaxe's earlier post.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I'm okay with having no healers, no tanks, or even no to both. But you have to have varied gameplay between classes. The GW2 of having everyone be a quasi hybrid class is horrid, and I really hope that's not the route they take. I'd much rather have a City of Heroes type system where you have a bunch of different character types, and can generally do almost any combination of them, but rarely or any never need certain ones.
*easy gameplay *action button mashing *no community *game is deserted after 2 weeks
I see all the telltale signs of a very bad MMO in Black Desert.
As opposed to a Tank holding aggro, getting healed so there is no worry about dying and the damage dealers burning down the mobs before the tank loses aggro.
Yup that's "oh so complex".
Ever been to Plane of Hate or Plane of Fear?
That's not really the point. There's no reason why a "Plane of Hate" or "Plane of Fear" style area couldn't be made for a non-Trinity game. Just because an area is challenging doesn't preclude another "non-trinity" system from being able to handle it.
To that end I'll point back to Kickaxe's earlier post.
*easy gameplay *action button mashing *no community *game is deserted after 2 weeks
I see all the telltale signs of a very bad MMO in Black Desert.
As opposed to a Tank holding aggro, getting healed so there is no worry about dying and the damage dealers burning down the mobs before the tank loses aggro.
Yup that's "oh so complex".
Ever been to Plane of Hate or Plane of Fear?
That's not really the point. There's no reason why a "Plane of Hate" or "Plane of Fear" style area couldn't be made for a non-Trinity game. Just because an area is challenging doesn't preclude another "non-trinity" system from being able to handle it.
To that end I'll point back to Kickaxe's earlier post.
You simple minded people are funny *thumbs up*
Your quip cannot bring me down as it's paste eating day.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I'm okay with having no healers, no tanks, or even no to both. But you have to have varied gameplay between classes. The GW2 of having everyone be a quasi hybrid class is horrid, and I really hope that's not the route they take. I'd much rather have a City of Heroes type system where you have a bunch of different character types, and can generally do almost any combination of them, but rarely or any never need certain ones.
Skyforge does pretty well with out healers in pve. I think a mmo with out heals can happen but with out some type of tank like in gw2 it is a problem for alot people to get use too trying avoiding 1 shot boss or attacks is not to much fun when human do make a error and miss a dodge.
Because it lacks significant end game pve content. However it will take longer than 2-3 weeks before you start seeing a real drop off in population... I'd say around 2 months. That said it won't be deserted, he's just an angry child. I just don't understand why people insist on spreading their negativity as much as possible.
BDO is not a PvE game. It's an open world PvP sandbox. Why would you ever come here for PvE content? It will last a long time because it's the PvP game that many of us have been waiting for and this genre lacking for a long time, and it's non-PvP sandboxy elements are complex and varied and attract another crowd lacking in a good game right now. No, it's not for the PvE crowd because every other game out there is for the PvE crowd.
its a pvp game with soo many restrictions and punishment for killing other players its not even worth to do pvp, if you thinking about gvg forget it becouse it costs insane amount of money
Actually that is no longer true. I've posted in another thread a few changes so far and we'll see more in CBT2. But as for GvG it's now cheaper to declare (just 150k silver) and there is no upkeep cost anymore.
Dunno what's up with the quote on mobile but there is def variety in classes. Warrior is sword and board with a dps focus. Valkyrie is sword and board with more defensive focus, sitting behind shield before jumping out with shield combos and other things, also has a heal and buff for group. Witch/Wizard are mage and priest hybrid. Ranger is glass cannon archer type. Sorc is melee and mid range magic brawler/assassin type with lots of movement dodge teleports, frequent smaller hits and cc while darting in and out. You get the idea. Definitely a game that uses Archetypes instead of making everyone the same.
I'm okay with having no healers, no tanks, or even no to both. But you have to have varied gameplay between classes. The GW2 of having everyone be a quasi hybrid class is horrid, and I really hope that's not the route they take. I'd much rather have a City of Heroes type system where you have a bunch of different character types, and can generally do almost any combination of them, but rarely or any never need certain ones.
Rule # I: If there's no CC, you won't find me. Rule # II: If there ain't no healer, the game has no appealer. Rule # III: If there ain't no tank, then the game has no swank. Rule # IV: If the game has a cash shop, it's crap... *plop*.
erm no holy trinity is destined to fail, my hype for this game just died
Blade and soul is the same, so is gw2 in that they have no healers or tanks.
They did it due to players hating the long waits for dungeons, the only people who should be honestly mad are people who like playing those roles...which is a minority.
It doesn't really change long waits for dungeons. That depends on population and the dungeon. Frankly, I've never enjoyed a dungeon in GW2. Feel like a free for all versus an actual group. I've run a few and everyone is just running around in what feels like a state of chaos. No one actually seems to need anyone else. You could use someone's power like ice bow, but you don't actually need nor work in coordination with the elementalist. The point of running dungeons is to accomplish something that requires teamwork and coordination or you will fail. There's nothing about that game that makes me feel connected to the game and whatever community that may exist. I could go on about that game...YUCK!
I like having options to play a tank, dps, or support toon. Personally, after a bit of gameplay, I will change toons to another class to mix things up.
Frankly, innovation is fine and the fact that you can recoup hp in BnS is nice. In CoH you had regen melee classes. They rarely needed healers and yet the game still had them and they were in demand. However, to kill a class completely when that class was one of the factors contributing to the growth of mmos? I don't think so. Providing a healer class does not mean the other classes can't continue to play as they like. It's just exclusion plain and simple.
There are healing and buff mechanics... There may not be a specific healer class, but it's certainly not needed. You can't really compare this game to anything else so all these people coming in here and completely ignoring the game simply because there is no healer really need to get a clue... They're basing their views on other games.
I prefer there be no healer class because in games that have them the healer just stands there and bombs heals on people and they usually can only be killed by a group of 3 or more people. Where's the fun in that? They are given too much power... which is why in almost every game they are nerfed into the ground in pvp scenarios.
Unless you've played the game you simply will not understand. The game doesn't need healers at all.
Seeing people call action combat "mashing" when they've been mashing buttons their entire tab target lives (while bunny hopping about for nothing) is the remedial gift that keeps on giving. Keep it up MMORPG.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Seeing people assume stuff about the game without even actually trying it is an even better gift. They think they know, but can only assume... This game is anything but mashing the 1-0 keys on a keyboard... you're actually punished for using the hotbar and if you have any amount of skill you certainly won't be mashing anything.
I like both styles of games. Nothing wrong with a trinity with tank, healer, dps and in my mind nothing wrong with games like GW2, BDO, etc that don't.
If you take an overall look at both styles, they are essentially the same......right? In my mind they are like Coke and Pepsi. The both look different on the outside, but you can expect the same end result from both. The end goal of both styles is to kill the boss, mob, player or whatever as quickly as you can.
With the trinity you have your tanks that are just buying time for the DPS to take down the boss/mob. The healers are healing the tanks and DPS for this prolonged delayed style along with the CC'ers buying time for the other three. If the trinity doesn't have enough DPS then the boss/mob encounter will fail. That is why you sometimes hear the term DPS check for some boss fights in trinity MMO's. No matter what tactic, strategy, etc you use, if your trinity doesn't meet the DPS check for some bosses then it will not succeed.
On the other side with the games that aren't trinity games you still need to kill things as fast as you can. In GW2 and BDO there are classes that can heal themselves and some that can take damage better than others.
So, I am not sure how someone can have such a dislike for one style over the other, but I guess that is even true in the sense of Pepsi and Coke. I personally like both styles, but at the core the two different styles are not much different. They are just different looking on the outside with the HOPEFULLY same expected result at the end.
Comments
Camelot Unchained, Albion Online, Blade and Soul, Sphere 3, Crowfall, COE, Gloria Victus.....
I know alot of them have yet to be released but you guys will have plenty in a couple years seems all of sudden it's a trend...........
What Kyoris is saying is dumb in it's own. You're saying EQ's trinity is harder because you stood in one spot and button mashed 30 skills. First, having 30 skills for you to use in a game is fucking stupid. That's way most games don't do it anymore. It's a thing of the past and was stupid then. Second, you are literally just standing there mashing buttons. How is that hard or requires skill? It doesn't! It doesn't require you to have a better understanding of how to play your character. It just means that you can read what they skills do. Congrats! You're literate.
Either of these play styles are hard or more rewarding then the other. They are just different. Shit people this is gaming really who gives a shit? As long as you're having fun that's all that matters.
If you have someone constantly healing all other players or if there is zero healing in combat and you need to defend eachother to not die really doesn't matter as long it is fun. Group dynamics is all about working together for a greater purpose.
The problem with MMO players is that we tend to be far too traditional and afraid to try out new things but that just leads to the tired clones of games we already played. I am not saying that Black desert is doing a good job here though, I havn't tried it yet but the future of MMOs is new kinds of group dynamics, something that offer a fun and co-operative experience we havn't already experienced for many years.
So far are the none trinity combat we seen a bit lacking, about where the trinity was when Meridian 59 released but sooner or later we will get at least one system good enough and that will be when we finally get a true next generation MMO. That is a must to get MMORPGs to survive for another 20 years. You can add all amazing features you want to a trinity game but you will still just have a polished up improved version of M59.
The holy trinity was a great idea but you can only base so many games on the same great idea. That is at least my opinion.
Also Loke666 makes good points.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
To that end I'll point back to Kickaxe's earlier post.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Rule # II: If there ain't no healer, the game has no appealer.
Rule # III: If there ain't no tank, then the game has no swank.
Rule # IV: If the game has a cash shop, it's crap... *plop*.
It doesn't really change long waits for dungeons. That depends on population and the dungeon. Frankly, I've never enjoyed a dungeon in GW2. Feel like a free for all versus an actual group. I've run a few and everyone is just running around in what feels like a state of chaos. No one actually seems to need anyone else. You could use someone's power like ice bow, but you don't actually need nor work in coordination with the elementalist. The point of running dungeons is to accomplish something that requires teamwork and coordination or you will fail. There's nothing about that game that makes me feel connected to the game and whatever community that may exist. I could go on about that game...YUCK!
I like having options to play a tank, dps, or support toon. Personally, after a bit of gameplay, I will change toons to another class to mix things up.
Frankly, innovation is fine and the fact that you can recoup hp in BnS is nice. In CoH you had regen melee classes. They rarely needed healers and yet the game still had them and they were in demand. However, to kill a class completely when that class was one of the factors contributing to the growth of mmos? I don't think so. Providing a healer class does not mean the other classes can't continue to play as they like. It's just exclusion plain and simple.
I prefer there be no healer class because in games that have them the healer just stands there and bombs heals on people and they usually can only be killed by a group of 3 or more people. Where's the fun in that? They are given too much power... which is why in almost every game they are nerfed into the ground in pvp scenarios.
Unless you've played the game you simply will not understand. The game doesn't need healers at all.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If you take an overall look at both styles, they are essentially the same......right? In my mind they are like Coke and Pepsi. The both look different on the outside, but you can expect the same end result from both. The end goal of both styles is to kill the boss, mob, player or whatever as quickly as you can.
With the trinity you have your tanks that are just buying time for the DPS to take down the boss/mob. The healers are healing the tanks and DPS for this prolonged delayed style along with the CC'ers buying time for the other three. If the trinity doesn't have enough DPS then the boss/mob encounter will fail. That is why you sometimes hear the term DPS check for some boss fights in trinity MMO's. No matter what tactic, strategy, etc you use, if your trinity doesn't meet the DPS check for some bosses then it will not succeed.
On the other side with the games that aren't trinity games you still need to kill things as fast as you can. In GW2 and BDO there are classes that can heal themselves and some that can take damage better than others.
So, I am not sure how someone can have such a dislike for one style over the other, but I guess that is even true in the sense of Pepsi and Coke. I personally like both styles, but at the core the two different styles are not much different. They are just different looking on the outside with the HOPEFULLY same expected result at the end.
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