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Is this Art?
noname12345
Member Posts: 2,267
So check out the photo then read the Q&A. Tell me what you think.
http://www.tate.org.uk/collection/L/L02/L02262_9.jpg
Q. To begin with, could you describe this work?
A. Yes, of course. What I've done is change a glass of water into a full-grown oak tree without altering the accidents of the glass of water.
Q. The accidents?
A. Yes. The colour, feel, weight, size ...
Q. Do you mean that the glass of water is a symbol of an oak tree?
A. No. It's not a symbol. I've changed the physical substance of the glass of water into that of an oak tree.
Q. It looks like a glass of water.
A. Of course it does. I didn't change its appearance. But it's not a glass of water, it's an oak tree.
Q. Can you prove what you've claimed to have done?
A. Well, yes and no. I claim to have maintained the physical form of the glass of water and, as you can see, I have. However, as one normally looks for evidence of physical change in terms of altered form, no such proof exists.
Q. Haven't you simply called this glass of water an oak tree?
A. Absolutely not. It is not a glass of water anymore. I have changed its actual substance. It would no longer be accurate to call it a glass of water. One could call it anything one wished but that would not alter the fact that it is an oak tree.
Q. Isn't this just a case of the emperor's new clothes?
A. No. With the emperor's new clothes people claimed to see something that wasn't there because they felt they should. I would be very surprised if anyone told me they saw an oak tree.
Q. Was it difficult to effect the change?
A. No effort at all. But it took me years of work before I realised I could do it.
Q. When precisely did the glass of water become an oak tree?
A. When I put the water in the glass.
Q. Does this happen every time you fill a glass with water?
A. No, of course not. Only when I intend to change it into an oak tree.
Q. Then intention causes the change?
A. I would say it precipitates the change.
Q. You don't know how you do it?
A. It contradicts what I feel I know about cause and effect.
Q. It seems to me that you are claiming to have worked a miracle. Isn't that the case?
A. I'm flattered that you think so.
Q. But aren't you the only person who can do something like this?
A. How could I know?
Q. Could you teach others to do it?
A. No, it's not something one can teach.
Q. Do you consider that changing the glass of water into an oak tree constitutes an art work?
A. Yes.
Q. What precisely is the art work? The glass of water?
A. There is no glass of water anymore.
Q. The process of change?
A. There is no process involved in the change.
Q. The oak tree?
A. Yes. The oak tree.
Q. But the oak tree only exists in the mind.
A. No. The actual oak tree is physically present but in the form of the glass of water. As the glass of water was a particular glass of water, the oak tree is also a particular oak tree. To conceive the category 'oak tree' or to picture a particular oak tree is not to understand and experience what appears to be a glass of water as an oak tree. Just as it is imperceivable it also inconceivable.
Q. Did the particular oak tree exist somewhere else before it took the form of a glass of water?
A. No. This particular oak tree did not exist previously. I should also point out that it does not and will not ever have any other form than that of a glass of water.
Q. How long will it continue to be an oak tree?
A. Until I change it.
------------------------------------------------------------------
I have my own theory on what this is all about. I would like to hear what you all think of this though.
______________________________
"When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!"
-cheer leading, flag waving American
Comments
Althogh I consider some forms of layout or juxtaposition(sp) art untu themselves...this isn't to me. The only variables in this "piece" is the hight and orientation to other near by pieces, but according to the Q&A these are not variables that affect the "art" so that leaves nothing. [He said it became the tree when the water entered the glass, not when it was placed on the shelf.]
Now if there were more glasses, or orientations that were variables that affected the piece I suppose you could argue it is "art" in some form, but the "creator" bluntly states this is not the case. So, the "artist" is just full of themselves, to put it politely.
Wow! Thats deep. . .
The guy/girl who ever made this is full of lightly featherd bald headed blue jays. It is amazing what people will call art but personally that doesnt fal into any category Imitationalism Formalism or Emotionalism falls under none it a glass of water.
On Time? On Target? Never Quit?
A Work in Progress.
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I think the "artist" may be on to something, seriously. I believe that it is possible that there is an oak tree in that picture but it is so beyond anything that I have heard of before, it is so radical that I cannot percieve it.
There is a story, that when columbus' fleet arrived on the Carribean, when the natives saw the ships coming, they couldn't see them at all because it was so beyond anything that they had known. But the shaman went out and he could see these ripples out in the water but no ships. He couldn't see the ships because he had no knowledge that clipper ships existed. So anyways he starts wondering what's causing the ripples, what's causing the effect- so everyday he goes out and he looks and looks and looks and eventually he see's the ships. Then the shaman begins telling the rest of his people about the ships and they could then see the ships too because everyone there trusted and believed in the shaman.
I think that there could be an oak tree in the picture. Remember in the matrix? "There is no spoon"
Click on my eyes to read more about this kind of stuff.
Sounds to me like this guy is trying to be existential (or perhaps philosophical?) and failing badly.
The art is very boring and bland, to be honest.
I think it's the objective of your past self to make you cringe.
-In memory of Laura "Taera" Genender. Passed away on Aug/13/08-
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RISING DRAGOON ~AION US ONLINE LEGION for Elyos
What are you all babbling about? I totally see an oak tree. Theres some squirrels in it and everything. And a tiny man with a crooked nose keeps reshaping himself and appearing in the bark of the tree.
He says there's candy at the top of the tree and I should climb it. . . Sweet! ByE All!
-- I need a nerf --
Riki those aren't my questions. Those questions are right below the glass of water in the picture...
btw the glass of water was filled up and transformed into an oak tree by Michael Craig-Martin in 1973.
...way before I was born.
______________________________
"When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!"
-cheer leading, flag waving American
this seems very much like a wind up to me.. the qa's are far too comical, even a modern artist isnt THAT out of touch with the world.
That's not art that's just a stupid fad.
Professor Hubert Farnsworth - That question is less stupid but, you asked it in a profoundly stupid way.
So if aliens landed on the earth then we wouldn't be able to see them because it's so beyond anything we know off?
Post edited to be nice.
So if aliens landed on the earth then we wouldn't be able to see them because it's so beyond anything we know off?
Do you even read what you write? Actually aliens ARE NOT beyond any of our imaginations because you specifically mentioned them along with thousands of others who have talked and put up documentaries. Aliens are VERY common knowledge here on earth, whether they exist or not (this is a whole different debate).
There is a difference between BoozBaz's story and thats because the Shaman didn't even know of ships, it never even registered in his brain that something existed. We know of aliens.
______________________________
"When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!"
-cheer leading, flag waving American
This is not art. this is junk. Someone that tries to convey "emotion" through random placement of objects is a very non-creative person trying to get attention. A 3 yr old has more imagination to create works of art that have more merit then this crap.
Before he explained it, it looked like a glass of water.
The explanation killed the magic for me
So if aliens landed on the earth then we wouldn't be able to see them because it's so beyond anything we know off?
Do you even read what you write? Actually aliens ARE NOT beyond any of our imaginations because you specifically mentioned them along with thousands of others who have talked and put up documentaries. Aliens are VERY common knowledge here on earth, whether they exist or not (this is a whole different debate).
There is a difference between BoozBaz's story and thats because the Shaman didn't even know of ships, it never even registered in his brain that something existed. We know of aliens.
Okay that was a bad example.
But if something far beyond our imagination appeared infront of us we wouldn't be able to see it, unless someone "wiser" who know what it is tells us it's there?
Anyways... it's just a story...
Actually they did have boats. They were small reed boats; however, nothing the size of a ship. Boozbaz's story is a myth. He and his people knew of boats. If you put it in todays context, it would be along the lines of someone who has only seen a mini cooper their entire lives sees, for the first time, a Hummer Limo.
I think simply based on the fact that the work is still being talked about, there is indeed a level of artistic achievement.
-- I need a nerf --
Well maybe the story of the shaman is myth but it does have a deeper meaning IMO. For example why do people smoke? If people could see their insides and actually see at a cellular level what was happening do you think they would quit? Maybe, maybe not, but most people instead just see the "ripples" or symptoms of their habit which is coughing and multiple health issues.
So there is my analogy of that.
______________________________
"When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!"
-cheer leading, flag waving American
It does have a deeper meaning to the right person, but at the same time it is based on cliches. Someone mentioned the a view fo somethong you can not percieve because you ahve no knowledge well that wo9uld distort the image a lot in a person eyes. If i were to say that looks like a Gnoinjasdf (random pressings of keys) and some one said "does that look kinda like an earth tree?" Then the issue would be different.
But as long as you are representing somethign others know to exist, if if doesn't get percieveed that way be a decent % (like 25%+) something failed in communication.
Vyava, I couldn't decipher everything you said but I was mostly talking about the shaman myth to just give an example of what it meant to me. Lots of people do know of the harmful effects in smoking but they ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist and so after years their perception becomes flawed, infact its probably flawed the second they start smoking. I don't know what goes on in a smokers head, but they don't see what they are really doing or else it would scare them enough to stop and if it doesn't then they must be...masochistic.
Its kinda funny, I know this guy who smokes and he heard of this father on the news (smoker is a father too) commiting suicide and taking the easy way out and the smoker started getting all mad, and he didn't even realize he was commiting suicide himself only slower....like torture.
So this is my perception on this subject and others will probably disagree. In my opinion perception can be so different that one person will see nothing while another will. Heck there are drawings that one person sees an old woman while some other spectator will see something entirely different. I have seen the drawings but there is usually a title and a description saying that there are two pictures in the drawings and so it challenges people to see both objects.
Bottom line is perception is neither right nor wrong.
This also touches up on the whole subject on what is "reality" and thats a very philosophical discussion also very Matrix-like.
______________________________
"When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!"
-cheer leading, flag waving American
Yeah this entire subject is very similar to the matrix movies.
I agree that perception is a very dynamic thing in that what one person may see as real, another person may see as unreal. It doesn't make either one of the opinions more truthfull then the other, they are just two different levels of truth.
well art is what you make it... if it sparkes any emotion at all in you its considered art
-a college student at SCU art school takes off her clothes turns around and pees in a cup, slightly after that she drinks the piss. is it art??
-another college student takes off his shirt and puts it on a rope which he then hangs above the auditoriam, he hauls back the ropeand the shirt. he takes a knife out and slashes open his chest and mops up the blood with the shirt and then hangs it above the audience again and says "I have AIDS" every one freaks out getting as far away from the shirt as possible. he then tells them that he indeed does not have AIDS and he wanted them to know what it was like being a homo sexual during the 1980's
Is that art?
art1 Audio pronunciation of "art" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (
I hope some day we can all put aside our racisms and prejudices and just laugh at people