As a female gamer, I don't really agree with censorship and am not against hyper-sexualization of characters, I never really cared, I would prefer though that if women are sexualized that the males are too. To me changing what I consider to be the iconic art style of the artist who designed this game and many other games/shows/etc is shitty, because I think it's beautiful and that's part of the appeal. It always really irritates me when the vocal minority of exteme feminist gamers succeed at changing things and speaking on behalf of all women when really they're just speaking for themselves.
She is entirely incorrect. The problem with these people is they dont make their own games, they hijack and "thought police" the work of others. They are nothing more than social parasites pushing their own agenda and activism on everyone else. They went after all forms of media and entertainment, from comics, movies and games. They are now trying to remove the classic Princess Leia outfit that Jabba put on her because its considered bad.
Since when has puritanism been ok when it comes to censoring entertainment? These very same people flipped out when Jack Thomson did it, now they are doing it in an even more fascist manner. Its absurd!
The worst part is, its NOT american to censor and change. The "american audience" is far more open to a variety of content made as is. Its this minority of activist and non gamers who make this noise and hire their own to enforce the noise. If content creators keep this up, they will not succeed... gamers will vote with their wallet and we will be called misogynist for it.
As I see it, adding some "sexy" clothes for the guys and some sensible for ladies would solve the entire problem instead of taking stuff away. This really isn't a problem unless the game forces yu to wear clthes you are uncomfortable with.
None gamers might still whine but I honestly don't care for none gamers. Forcing female gamers to run around and showing their panties is bad though, it should be a choice.
And Asian MMOs tend to have a very limited choices for gear, the more the better.
Feminism has almost taken over the gaming industry. It's only a matter of time. Studios are feeling the pressure of outside groups more than ever. They don't want to get hit with lawsuits that will cripple their companies. Not to get too political, but remember when it used to be the right-wing groups trying to censor? Now it's the left and Social Justice Warriors. They don't want customers to have choices.
She is entirely incorrect. The problem with these people is they dont make their own games, they hijack and "thought police" the work of others. They are nothing more than social parasites pushing their own agenda and activism on everyone else. They went after all forms of media and entertainment, from comics, movies and games. They are now trying to remove the classic Princess Leia outfit that Jabba put on her because its considered bad.
Since when has puritanism been ok when it comes to censoring entertainment? These very same people flipped out when Jack Thomson did it, now they are doing it in an even more fascist manner. Its absurd!
The worst part is, its NOT american to censor and change. The "american audience" is far more open to a variety of content made as is. Its this minority of activist and non gamers who make this noise and hire their own to enforce the noise. If content creators keep this up, they will not succeed... gamers will vote with their wallet and we will be called misogynist for it.
Perhaps I'm biased having spent most of my life in the Midwest but puritanism has always been an incredibly strong force in America, I just never expected that feminists would pick up the banner when conservative religious leaders started to falter.
I wish I could believe you that they will fail, but alas social media makes me believe that they will win. Now that there are tools where like minded people can come together to share anything they may have encountered that they disapprove of and then leverage their numbers to try and influence individuals and corporations.
Several months ago I was listening to a TED talk that highlighted one of the more shocking developments in social media is that has become an incredibly conformist tool. Something that people thought was originally going to be used to increase expression is in fact being and likely will be used even more in the future to suppress dissenting or unpopular views/expression.
So, if you mean censoring that they tailoring their game to fit their players (potential players) to make their money. Then I guess you can use the word. However, I won't let my kids draw things on my walls, so I must also be censoring.
Problem here if they think there potential players base same age as your kids. People are hype up over the game but starting censoring not knowing where they will end may not end up just in cloths can be game play, models, story and much more then slowly bringing down what made people like the game in the first place.
it has been said a million times they are not going to censor any costumes, please do a clear comparison between our ones and the Chinese censor version before posting any crap like please.
stop spreading misinformation/ bullshit if you never bother to play the game nor if you have played in the Alpha/ Beta.
and please stop talking about feminism, they are only censoring a bunch of texts.
So, if you mean censoring that they tailoring their game to fit their players (potential players) to make their money. Then I guess you can use the word. However, I won't let my kids draw things on my walls, so I must also be censoring.
Problem here if they think there potential players base same age as your kids. People are hype up over the game but starting censoring not knowing where they will end may not end up just in cloths can be game play, models, story and much more then slowly bringing down what made people like the game in the first place.
Can't disagree with you. They definitely need to take a critical look at their player base and make realistic decisions. My main point is these bombastic statements that people make like 'censorship.' It sounds good and gets people to rally around a cause, but they aren't acurate reflections of whats going on. Just kinda pushes my buttons. I guess I've gotta get over that. Something for me to work on for the new year.
I still don't see how the pictures presented in the OP are censoring anything. In one picture the model is in underwear in the other the model is in underwear... is it the poses that are censored? is it because YOU think one version of the underwear is sexy and the other is not?
I just don't think it's censoring it is merely artistic preference.
Stop acting like a pedant.
Also the game has quite a few costumes for women that are bulky and cover pretty much everything "sexy". It's not all sexy lingerie. So there already is choice.
And if you don't think the men have sexy clothes you're not playing the game or your idea of sexy is your own.
Here is what the average american audience watches
I don't see why censorship is needed, but them doing it won't stop me playing.
What I don't get though, is at a time where Music and Film is becoming more sexual, Games are being criticized for being too sexual. And all of this is coming from America.
As a European, I'm a little tired of Global, International or Western games and press coverage, which essentially caters to the lowest common denominator of American acceptance. It isn't even like the American market is the biggest any more, it sits behind China and Europe in terms of revenue for gaming these days, but it still dictates so much policy.
I think it's less about preference than it is about the weighing of selling potential. Are the changes going to make someone not buy the game that would have with less clothes and sexy stances? Probably not. Is the fact they are doing this going to gain additional sales because they are "doing the right thing" from a political standpoint? More likely. More power to them for it honestly, NC are the ones employing n employees and have a far greater stake in B&S's success than any single player.
It would be hard to gauge the overall preference of either sexes honestly. When I played Aion I actually played with more females than males and they loved the sexy outfits/posing.
Anyone else find that the "censored" versions are sexier? At least in the link in the OP, I've never really been into nighttime lingerie, the other outfit is better imo
I think it's less about preference than it is about the weighing of selling potential. Are the changes going to make someone not buy the game that would have with less clothes and sexy stances? Probably not. Is the fact they are doing this going to gain additional sales because they are "doing the right thing" from a political standpoint? More likely. More power to them for it honestly, NC are the ones employing n employees and have a far greater stake in B&S's success than any single player.
It would be hard to gauge the overall preference of either sexes honestly. When I played Aion I actually played with more females than males and they loved the sexy outfits/posing.
I was turned into a "feminist" by exposure of having mainly female friends and dating those who would ask me to watch videos and go to events with them. Was a pleasant activity to spend with your loved one, in truth.
But when asked what they think of the latest feminism craze -- or "internet feminism" -- whereby faceless people (who might even be trolls) rely on outrage culture... the only response I've received is that they think they're evil.
With regards to this topic, it's essentially just teaching one to be ashamed of their bodies. Which isn't what feminism should be about -- that was the pressure of the patriarch long ago. Feminism used to be about the breaking down of stereotypes and having equality and not exacerbating differences. To not take anything away from anyone, but rather to educate people of the negativity of social constructs and stereotypes.
The image in the original post reminds me of the worst example of this: 1980s fashion whereby women would put shoulder-pads in their clothing to look more masculine and thus feel "empowered". This is just shaming and forsaking a woman's body and feministic nature just because the opposite sex finds it attractive. But news flash to those people: Men are supposed to find women attractive. Is biology now the enemy of Internet Feminism and outrage culture?
My take is that this is more so about taking advantage of said outrage culture and those who don't understand where the roots of feminism are. In addition to parents potentially wanting video games to raise their children just as their generation had television do such. It's so much easier to change everything than to be a good parent. Though if they actually got together and decided to not buy something or deny access to children by watching them or apply parental settings (which should absolutely exist if the original game's concept is rated teen) -- heaven forbid -- then the need wouldn't be there (and companies would genuinely change in the children's entertainment industry to follow the money instead of relying on lazy parenting). The whole "baby steps" to change things into it being alright to shame any semblance of being attractive or body language.
It would be much better if the new stances and emotes were put in with the old, so that people can choose one or the other and not be hounded by the corporate entity or people saying they're sexist or against feminism for appreciating the bodies of both men and women. We must be careful not to limit our own options when seeking change -- as well as to not limit the options of others. A core founding principle of the Feminism I was taught.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Anyone else find that the "censored" versions are sexier? At least in the link in the OP, I've never really been into nighttime lingerie, the other outfit is better imo
No not really, I prefer lingerie by a long shot myself in the way of what I consider "sexier", but honestly I don't really care what the character is wearing in the way of "underwear" that I'll never see because it's a game full of costumes that cover whatever the underwear is in the first place. I don't want costumes themselves altered, I like the way they are originally. Aside from that I don't really care.
Now I understand.... It's NOT censorship. It's just NCSoft not being stupid.
What do you mean? I don't think any of those are changed in our version.
It's not about censorship. It's about appealing to a demographic. The video doesn't highlight what is being changed. But it does give some insight into the fundamental differences in regional "entertainment".
Only reason people bring this up is because it's controversial... they have intelligence enough to know what is acceptable for them and what is not and conduct themselves accordingly. The argument is moot because they aren't looking for a change but controversy.
Merry Christmas is politically incorrect... Happy Holidays is politically correct. In the end, people are still celebrating the same holiday. It's really a moot argument.
Why is it a problem? Are people really upset because they can't see virtual T&A flapping around on screen? That's what it comes down to in the end. I wish more companies would stop catering to the LCD when it comes to crap like this. Anyways Happy new year!
Sadly those of you who keep going on about feminism are just wasting your time. you are better off posting it on official forums since none of the Ncsoft Staff is going to read this thread.
controversial? who cares, anyone is wasting their time if they bother to post in here
we already know costumes in NA/EU won't be censored that should be the end of discussion
Why is it a problem? Are people really upset because they can't see virtual T&A flapping around on screen? That's what it comes down to in the end. I wish more companies would stop catering to the LCD when it comes to crap like this. Anyways Happy new year!
Trust me there is plenty of T&A flopping around in the game and IMO that is fine.
The OP is about a change that you'll only see during the character creation process, it's not even an outfit.
It's really a stylistic change. It's hardly censoring, if at all and NCSoft is not censoring any of the ACTUAL outfits as far as I know.
Anyone else find that the "censored" versions are sexier? At least in the link in the OP, I've never really been into nighttime lingerie, the other outfit is better imo
That's just it.....I don't think this stuff is sexy at all. It's just............. weird. Idunno. I guess I just don't understand Asians.
Comments
This come up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCIrBBvX0w8
Now I understand....
It's NOT censorship. It's just NCSoft not being stupid.
Since when has puritanism been ok when it comes to censoring entertainment? These very same people flipped out when Jack Thomson did it, now they are doing it in an even more fascist manner. Its absurd!
The worst part is, its NOT american to censor and change. The "american audience" is far more open to a variety of content made as is. Its this minority of activist and non gamers who make this noise and hire their own to enforce the noise. If content creators keep this up, they will not succeed... gamers will vote with their wallet and we will be called misogynist for it.
None gamers might still whine but I honestly don't care for none gamers. Forcing female gamers to run around and showing their panties is bad though, it should be a choice.
And Asian MMOs tend to have a very limited choices for gear, the more the better.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
I wish I could believe you that they will fail, but alas social media makes me believe that they will win. Now that there are tools where like minded people can come together to share anything they may have encountered that they disapprove of and then leverage their numbers to try and influence individuals and corporations.
Several months ago I was listening to a TED talk that highlighted one of the more shocking developments in social media is that has become an incredibly conformist tool. Something that people thought was originally going to be used to increase expression is in fact being and likely will be used even more in the future to suppress dissenting or unpopular views/expression.
it has been said a million times they are not going to censor any costumes, please do a clear comparison between our ones and the Chinese censor version before posting any crap like please.
stop spreading misinformation/ bullshit if you never bother to play the game nor if you have played in the Alpha/ Beta.
and please stop talking about feminism, they are only censoring a bunch of texts.
I self identify as a monkey.
I just don't think it's censoring it is merely artistic preference.
Stop acting like a pedant.
Also the game has quite a few costumes for women that are bulky and cover pretty much everything "sexy". It's not all sexy lingerie. So there already is choice.
And if you don't think the men have sexy clothes you're not playing the game or your idea of sexy is your own.
What I don't get though, is at a time where Music and Film is becoming more sexual, Games are being criticized for being too sexual. And all of this is coming from America.
As a European, I'm a little tired of Global, International or Western games and press coverage, which essentially caters to the lowest common denominator of American acceptance. It isn't even like the American market is the biggest any more, it sits behind China and Europe in terms of revenue for gaming these days, but it still dictates so much policy.
I think it's less about preference than it is about the weighing of selling potential. Are the changes going to make someone not buy the game that would have with less clothes and sexy stances? Probably not. Is the fact they are doing this going to gain additional sales because they are "doing the right thing" from a political standpoint? More likely. More power to them for it honestly, NC are the ones employing n employees and have a far greater stake in B&S's success than any single player.
It would be hard to gauge the overall preference of either sexes honestly. When I played Aion I actually played with more females than males and they loved the sexy outfits/posing.
I was turned into a "feminist" by exposure of having mainly female friends and dating those who would ask me to watch videos and go to events with them. Was a pleasant activity to spend with your loved one, in truth.
But when asked what they think of the latest feminism craze -- or "internet feminism" -- whereby faceless people (who might even be trolls) rely on outrage culture... the only response I've received is that they think they're evil.
With regards to this topic, it's essentially just teaching one to be ashamed of their bodies. Which isn't what feminism should be about -- that was the pressure of the patriarch long ago. Feminism used to be about the breaking down of stereotypes and having equality and not exacerbating differences. To not take anything away from anyone, but rather to educate people of the negativity of social constructs and stereotypes.
The image in the original post reminds me of the worst example of this: 1980s fashion whereby women would put shoulder-pads in their clothing to look more masculine and thus feel "empowered". This is just shaming and forsaking a woman's body and feministic nature just because the opposite sex finds it attractive. But news flash to those people: Men are supposed to find women attractive. Is biology now the enemy of Internet Feminism and outrage culture?
My take is that this is more so about taking advantage of said outrage culture and those who don't understand where the roots of feminism are. In addition to parents potentially wanting video games to raise their children just as their generation had television do such. It's so much easier to change everything than to be a good parent. Though if they actually got together and decided to not buy something or deny access to children by watching them or apply parental settings (which should absolutely exist if the original game's concept is rated teen) -- heaven forbid -- then the need wouldn't be there (and companies would genuinely change in the children's entertainment industry to follow the money instead of relying on lazy parenting). The whole "baby steps" to change things into it being alright to shame any semblance of being attractive or body language.
It would be much better if the new stances and emotes were put in with the old, so that people can choose one or the other and not be hounded by the corporate entity or people saying they're sexist or against feminism for appreciating the bodies of both men and women. We must be careful not to limit our own options when seeking change -- as well as to not limit the options of others. A core founding principle of the Feminism I was taught.
Merry Christmas is politically incorrect... Happy Holidays is politically correct. In the end, people are still celebrating the same holiday. It's really a moot argument.
controversial? who cares, anyone is wasting their time if they bother to post in here
we already know costumes in NA/EU won't be censored that should be the end of discussion
The OP is about a change that you'll only see during the character creation process, it's not even an outfit.
It's really a stylistic change. It's hardly censoring, if at all and NCSoft is not censoring any of the ACTUAL outfits as far as I know.