The Keepsake Chat

Slapshot1188 · December 2015

Here are the big details:

No deal yet
Signing exploratory paperwork with possible investors to share the books etc..
These "investors" include some people who are current players and have been for awhile
Expect to know if it goes through sometime in Jan
Would anticipate a March transfer if it aligns
No wipe planned as of now

Feel free to add or correct the above.

Update 1:

It's actually 4 companies involved. Paizo, Goblinworks, another development company and then an investor group.
The current player(s) sound like they are part of the development group not the investor group

Lisa mentioned ramping up staffing to 30 developers
She also cried again... sigh

Update 2:
Mystery company has been around for decades and principals have made many video games
Lisa would not be part of the new company
Paizo would only interact with the new company as the licensor
Mystery company MIGHT hire some of the old developers back
No large updates planned prior to the possible sale
game will still be up and running to march first no matter what, even if talks break off
Lisa believes there is an intent to move game to Unity 5

Bluddwolf · December 2015

Slapshot1188 said:

Lisa believes there is an intent to move game to Unity 5

At least there is some common sense in that. There was no way any real investor(s) were going to pick up the game and continue to develop it using an obsolete engine.

Thebeasttt · December 2015

I feel like the term "beating a dead horse" was made for this game. It has absolutely zero chance of succeeding, new engine or no. Lisa needs to wisen up and put this game to grass where it belongs.

Slapshot1188 · December 2015

Thebeasttt said:

I feel like the term "beating a dead horse" was made for this game. It has absolutely zero chance of succeeding, new engine or no. Lisa needs to wisen up and put this game to grass where it belongs.

Well from her perspective I would imagine that if she can get someone to pay Paizo some money to recoup what was spent... why not?

I just can't for the life of me see how someone would invest millions of dollars in this game. It will be interesting to see who these folks are when/if this comes to fruition.

Bluddwolf · December 2015

Slapshot1188 said:

I just can't for the life of me see how someone would invest millions of dollars in this game. It will be interesting to see who these folks are when/if this comes to fruition.

The "game" and the "property" are not one in the same, as I know you understand.

Although I was not able to attend, and have not listened to the chat (I apparently don't have access to drop box), I have gleaned a few bits that caught my attention.

[Positive] Seems to be discussion of upgrading game engine. Regardless of whether Unity 5 is the best choice or not, it is forward looking compared to sticking with Unity 4.

[Positive] Lisa claimed that if the deal goes through there will be a lot more money, more than ever before, for development.

[Positive] The prospective new Development company may employ as many as 30 developers for this project.

[Concern] This could mean the reemployment of former GW staff. If that is Lee Hammock and Tork Shaw, alright, but if that includes Ryan Dancey my concern will shift to [Very Negative].

[Concern] Still appears to be a clinging onto the "original vision", which we all know, never attracted enough consumer interest to support a viable product.

@Bringslite, You see..... nothing negative, unless it involves bringing Ryan Dancey back.

nennafir · December 2015

It is a little weird that the email I received from Lisa starts, "fThe year 2015 has been an exciting but tumultuous time for us at Goblinworks."

Do we really need a typo in the very first sentence?

nennafir · December 2015

For the record, I like pen-and-paper Pathfinder and did support the Kickstarter in a minimal way ($30 or something--I don't remember exactly.) By the time their "minimal viable product" surfaced it was clear I wanted nothing to do with it and didn't throw any more money at it.

I think that there is probably some demand for a Pathfinder MMO, but it needs to stay more true to the roots of the Pathfinder IP.

Pepeq · December 2015

When all else fails, start over... that's essentially the gist of all this.

MrSnuffles · December 2015

Bluddwolf said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Lisa believes there is an intent to move game to Unity 5

At least there is some common sense in that. There was no way any real investor(s) were going to pick up the game and continue to develop it using an obsolete engine.

Neither will they using an engine that is not fit for a MMORPG. Moving to Unity will just create more problems because the engine is completely rubbish when it comes to optimization and networking.

Bluddwolf · December 2015

MrSnuffles said:

Bluddwolf said:

Slapshot1188 said:

Lisa believes there is an intent to move game to Unity 5

At least there is some common sense in that. There was no way any real investor(s) were going to pick up the game and continue to develop it using an obsolete engine.

Neither will they using an engine that is not fit for a MMORPG. Moving to Unity will just create more problems because the engine is completely rubbish when it comes to optimization and networking.

I don't know enough about such technical things, but I believe since the game has thus far been built on the Unity 4 engine, to break completely from Unity would require a total start from scratch. Now, I'm not opposed to that but many of those that have dedicated a lot of time in game would not be happy with a restart to zero (0).

Again, I would not mind, I think it really could use a complete restart from scratch. I don't see all that much in the game now that would be a deal breaker if lost.

Slapshot1188 · December 2015

They should do a clean split from this game. Have the new folks (if they exist) call it Golarion Online and do a relaunch in a year.

Then work on an actual PATHFINDER related game or better yet, license the IP to a real development company. The current one is the equivalent of picking some random race from Star Wars lore, combined with some planet mentioned once in a book... and using that as a platform to build a 'Star Wars' game. Folks would be like WTF? And that's pretty much what happened here (technical issues and shoddy development aside)

AndiusMeuridiar · January 2016

The fact the investors have been part of PFO from day one really would concern me if I was still emotionally invested in this games success.

I will say straight up PFO's community has driven off almost everyone with good ideas and is now prettymuch dominated by people who should never, ever, ever have any input on how to design a PvP centric game.

So for the sake of this game I hope this investors isn't any of the big names in the PFO community I'm familiar with.

Bluddwolf · January 2016

AndiusMeuridiar said:

The fact the investors have been part of PFO from day one really would concern me if I was still emotionally invested in this games success.

I will say straight up PFO's community has driven off almost everyone with good ideas and is now prettymuch dominated by people who should never, ever, ever have any input on how to design a PvP centric game.

So for the sake of this game I hope this investors isn't any of the big names in the PFO community I'm familiar with.

I'm not sure if this person is just a Liasson to the investors or an investor himself. But, what was said was that he is committed to maintaining the original vision of the game, which I find even more concerning. Couple that with "has been playing the game since day one" and that tells me an Alpha backer.

Anything ng short of a replacement of the game engine and a full wipe before a "relaunch" and this is just throwing good money after bad. There is not a single game system worth keeping. That and the current, small, player base is so far ahead of any potential, new player that the new player MUST receive assistance from the old or they won't be able to compete independently.

Not only is the learning curve ridiculously high, but the power curve is beyond any I have seen in any MMO.

AndiusMeuridiar · January 2016

The power gap between newbs and vets is too high? I feel like someone warned the community about that before the game even launched but was shouted down by the fanboys.

Oh wait that was me. The same person who was dismissed when he warned the community that without drastic change a shutdown or downsize of this game was inevitable. What % of the developers who had jobs when I warned that are still around? 10%?

Damn it feel good to be right.

AndiusMeuridiar · January 2016

In all seriousness though, this really could be a new leaf for PFO that revitalizes it and makes it a real game worth playing. I just find it hard to get overly optimistic given their track record thus far.

Slapshot1188 · January 2016

Slapshot1188 said:

Here are the big details:

Expect to know if it goes through sometime in Jan

Hmm... end of Jan is rapidly approaching. No word. Wonder what that could portend?

Thod · January 2016

My understanding was not to expect anything before March when more or less the company would be able to take over. My guess is - make it April at least.
Today is the release of EE11.1 - a minor release of new contents but still a step forward. Not fast enough - but then there aren't many developers left.

Bluddwolf · February 2016

chirp... chirp.... chirp.....nothing but crickets to be heard here.

Slapshot1188 · February 2016

Bluddwolf said:

chirp... chirp.... chirp.....nothing but crickets to be heard here.

Indeed...
The main discussion about the next "features" seems to center around removing all the inactive players from influence calculations.

Bluddwolf · February 2016

Slapshot1188 said:

Bluddwolf said:

chirp... chirp.... chirp.....nothing but crickets to be heard here.

Indeed...
The main discussion about the next "features" seems to center around removing all the inactive players from influence calculations.

So that the few remaing players will be able to do even less..... Yeah, that seems like a winning plan. To be honest, my gaming group has moved on to playing more Partfinder TT, and Survival MPRPGs.

For me personally, I'm looking at Conan Exiles and Robert E. Howard's Conan RPG. Conan Exiles is barely beyond a demo, and it already sounds and looks far better than PFO.

I seriously doubt there will be any new investors / developer of PFO, not unless they intend to go with a total scrub and start from scratch.

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