In my experience going all the way back to my first MMO experiences in DAOC, no matter what type of encounter it was, as long as you had the right balance of players/gear any encounter can feel more or less trivial. Especially when all are experienced players.
I am going to call you out on this. Yes the most experienced players can make any boss fight as a group Trivial after a lot of effort. The problem is the vast majority of players cannot just walk into a group boss fight which requires more than Full DPS and stay out of fire. Part of the reason why is because we have taken away classes being different from one another and feeling that every possible boss fight must work equally the same for every group make up. So what happens is nothing but DPS check boss fights. If you have boss fights which require teamwork and timed abilities you cannot simulate that in a single player fashion as much as you want to believe so. Why? Because in a group of 5 players a weak player can make a boss fight unbeatable because that 5th player might not be able to CC 1 add, kite another and DPS the needed target. Also you cannot simulate with the same group with that weak player having a special ability that can turn the fight in the parties favor that is rightly timed that can save the party. You also cannot simulate what would happen if in that same situation what if one other player like a mage could Sheep 2 targets because he burns a trinket that has a 1 hour cold down.
All this shit I am saying went a way just so developers can streamline boss fights for any party make up which is why grouping in any MMO has been shit since the day that WOTLK came out. Because people bitched that the best and top end guilds always built groups for efficiency not taking players they like to play with. These players blamed the game and said it was the game's fault for not making it so that everyone could make a top end guild. The players didnt take responsibility and say "Hey I need to either play the way that guild wants me to OR I need to find a like minded group of players to play with" But no we expect a game we pay for to conform to EXACTLY what we want. This is why MMOS are in the toilet. Do MMOs need to be at a certain level like not Gen 1 time sink demands yes because too few players play and the game will flop, but does the game need to try to get 12 million players so be good for everyone? FUCK NO
At the time I played they were interesting dungeons and raids that were challenging and progressive, but not so hard a group interested player could succeed through them. It was the social politics of raiding that killed it for me, not that the instances were poorly designed.
The only reasonable solution i see is to have options:
1) option to group - so people who have friends, with no (or tolerable) social politics can enjoy the MP version.
2) option to solo - people who don't want to deal with others can enjoy the content
3) may be LFR/pug mode - has to be much easier though since there is little coordination between strangers, and this is for those who like to have some people around, but don't want to go through the raid social stuff.
(1) and (2) will be nice. I don't think (3) is that important, but i included it for completeness.
At the time I played they were interesting dungeons and raids that were challenging and progressive, but not so hard a group interested player could succeed through them. It was the social politics of raiding that killed it for me, not that the instances were poorly designed.
The only reasonable solution i see is to have options:
1) option to group - so people who have friends, with no (or tolerable) social politics can enjoy the MP version.
2) option to solo - people who don't want to deal with others can enjoy the content
3) may be LFR/pug mode - has to be much easier though since there is little coordination between strangers, and this is for those who like to have some people around, but don't want to go through the raid social stuff.
(1) and (2) will be nice. I don't think (3) is that important, but i included it for completeness.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
At the time I played they were interesting dungeons and raids that were challenging and progressive, but not so hard a group interested player could succeed through them. It was the social politics of raiding that killed it for me, not that the instances were poorly designed.
The only reasonable solution i see is to have options:
1) option to group - so people who have friends, with no (or tolerable) social politics can enjoy the MP version.
2) option to solo - people who don't want to deal with others can enjoy the content
3) may be LFR/pug mode - has to be much easier though since there is little coordination between strangers, and this is for those who like to have some people around, but don't want to go through the raid social stuff.
(1) and (2) will be nice. I don't think (3) is that important, but i included it for completeness.
Option 4, Play EVE
Eve is a horrible solo game. The solo content, if you can call it that, is very boring and easy-mode, at least to me.
At the time I played they were interesting dungeons and raids that were challenging and progressive, but not so hard a group interested player could succeed through them. It was the social politics of raiding that killed it for me, not that the instances were poorly designed.
The only reasonable solution i see is to have options:
1) option to group - so people who have friends, with no (or tolerable) social politics can enjoy the MP version.
2) option to solo - people who don't want to deal with others can enjoy the content
3) may be LFR/pug mode - has to be much easier though since there is little coordination between strangers, and this is for those who like to have some people around, but don't want to go through the raid social stuff.
(1) and (2) will be nice. I don't think (3) is that important, but i included it for completeness.
Option 4, Play EVE
Eve is a horrible solo game. The solo content, if you can call it that, is very boring and easy-mode, at least to me.
What a complete shocker, lol.
Additionally, easy mode? You admittedly play every game easy mode style. Not a surprise in any way shape or form you could not discover the challenges that EVE can provide for a solo player in your brief "touch the surface" type of experience you had with this game, and every other video game you lay your judgemental claws on.
Please, lol.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Not a surprise in any way shape or form you could not discover the challenges that EVE can provide for a solo player in your brief "touch the surface" type of experience you had with this game, and every other video game you lay your judgemental claws on.
Challenges need to be "discovered". It is a game, is it not? If it is not fun (with appropriate challenges) in the first 15 min ... NEXT!
Not a surprise in any way shape or form you could not discover the challenges that EVE can provide for a solo player in your brief "touch the surface" type of experience you had with this game, and every other video game you lay your judgemental claws on.
Challenges need to be "discovered". It is a game, is it not? If it is not fun (with appropriate challenges) in the first 15 min ... NEXT!
The real shame is you don't realize the dis-service your play style does to you.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Not a surprise in any way shape or form you could not discover the challenges that EVE can provide for a solo player in your brief "touch the surface" type of experience you had with this game, and every other video game you lay your judgemental claws on.
Challenges need to be "discovered". It is a game, is it not? If it is not fun (with appropriate challenges) in the first 15 min ... NEXT!
The real shame is you don't realize the dis-service your play style does to you.
So very true.
Having such an insanely low level attention span really puts you in a position where you miss out on so much.
Makes me quite aware of how fortunate I am to not be so easily entertained.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
The real shame is you don't realize the dis-service your play style does to you.
lol .. as if you know my preferences better.
If i have more than enough entertainment, and that every single min is fun .. what am i missing? I doubt suffering through boring part of some "classical" style MMOs will eventually get me better entertainment than Diablo 3, Fallout 4, Dishonored, and so on ....
The only shame is people think they know better how others should use entertainment.
The real shame is you don't realize the dis-service your play style does to you.
...what am i missing?...
Much, much more than you'll likely ever know.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
The real shame is you don't realize the dis-service your play style does to you.
...what am i missing?...
Much, much more than you'll likely ever know.
you mean waiting for boats, walking 10 min to dungeons, loot and guild drama ... oh what did i miss ... oh .. take a number and wait in line to kill the next static spawn mob?
The real shame is you don't realize the dis-service your play style does to you.
...what am i missing?...
Much, much more than you'll likely ever know.
you mean waiting for boats, walking 10 min to dungeons, loot and guild drama ... oh what did i miss ... oh .. take a number and wait in line to kill the next static spawn mob?
Nope, lol.
You simply reinforced the point of my post. But in retrospect, replace "ever" with "never".
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
The modern MMO player... if it's not awful, it can't possibly be fun.
"awful" is subjective. "fun" is subjective.
For example, EQ is awful for me, and fun for you. Wait ... The old MMO veteran, if its not awful, it can't possibly be fun.
So shall I change that to "The old MMO veterans, if it is not like a job and boring, it can't possibly be fun"?
Must have been a hell of an awful year.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
the reason why this thread is popular is another sign MMOs are lame solo games now. MMOs went mainstream. Mainstreamers want to be able to solo everything.
IMPORTANT: Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING. Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally. If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead. I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING. Thank you.
the reason why this thread is popular is another sign MMOs are lame solo games now. MMOs went mainstream. Mainstreamers want to be able to solo everything.
I am going to disagree. I think most people enjoy gaming with others. The issue we face in the MMO and FPS world for that matter is what I call the "douchebag quotient". Games have been so simplified and "dumbed" down that the hardcore, the RPG player, is left dealing with 14 years olds that think the F-Bomb makes them sound like an adult and our immersion is ruined by 20 people all running around with names based on variations of star war characters or penis jokes.
You try to join with others and game but you spend so much time ducking the morons that it is frustrating, killing the game experience and makes you quit looking for other, like minded players.
I have been saying for the past two weeks, the PERFECT MMO style game to me would be to take a game like Fallout 4, give me up to 8 player co-op with a persistent server. Let me pick the people that would run with me, not make me be limited to who happens to be on.
The solo nature of the Fallout 4 style game would give great experiences when solo and the builder nature would let your small group work together on a great settlement, play tougher missions and together and when on have fun as a group but when off still feel like your with a group through the cooperation of the play.
MMOs as they where, during the "glory" days are dead, it is time for a new game style to pop up and for me the persistent co-op is the one I want to see.
the reason why this thread is popular is another sign MMOs are lame solo games now. MMOs went mainstream. Mainstreamers want to be able to solo everything.
I am going to disagree. I think most people enjoy gaming with others. The issue we face in the MMO and FPS world for that matter is what I call the "douchebag quotient". Games have been so simplified and "dumbed" down that the hardcore, the RPG player, is left dealing with 14 years olds that think the F-Bomb makes them sound like an adult and our immersion is ruined by 20 people all running around with names based on variations of star war characters or penis jokes.
You try to join with others and game but you spend so much time ducking the morons that it is frustrating, killing the game experience and makes you quit looking for other, like minded players.
I have been saying for the past two weeks, the PERFECT MMO style game to me would be to take a game like Fallout 4, give me up to 8 player co-op with a persistent server. Let me pick the people that would run with me, not make me be limited to who happens to be on.
The solo nature of the Fallout 4 style game would give great experiences when solo and the builder nature would let your small group work together on a great settlement, play tougher missions and together and when on have fun as a group but when off still feel like your with a group through the cooperation of the play.
MMOs as they where, during the "glory" days are dead, it is time for a new game style to pop up and for me the persistent co-op is the one I want to see.
play a sub based game or P2P. it will weed out a lot of the morons. not all of them but many of them. most games you are describing i get the vibe in F2P. so i avoid f2p nowadays.
IMPORTANT: Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING. Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally. If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead. I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING. Thank you.
the reason why this thread is popular is another sign MMOs are lame solo games now. MMOs went mainstream. Mainstreamers want to be able to solo everything.
I am going to disagree. I think most people enjoy gaming with others. The issue we face in the MMO and FPS world for that matter is what I call the "douchebag quotient". Games have been so simplified and "dumbed" down that the hardcore, the RPG player, is left dealing with 14 years olds that think the F-Bomb makes them sound like an adult and our immersion is ruined by 20 people all running around with names based on variations of star war characters or penis jokes.
You try to join with others and game but you spend so much time ducking the morons that it is frustrating, killing the game experience and makes you quit looking for other, like minded players.
I have been saying for the past two weeks, the PERFECT MMO style game to me would be to take a game like Fallout 4, give me up to 8 player co-op with a persistent server. Let me pick the people that would run with me, not make me be limited to who happens to be on.
The solo nature of the Fallout 4 style game would give great experiences when solo and the builder nature would let your small group work together on a great settlement, play tougher missions and together and when on have fun as a group but when off still feel like your with a group through the cooperation of the play.
MMOs as they where, during the "glory" days are dead, it is time for a new game style to pop up and for me the persistent co-op is the one I want to see.
play a sub based game or P2P. it will weed out a lot of the morons. not all of them but many of them. most games you are describing i get the vibe in F2P. so i avoid f2p nowadays.
Add OWPvP to this and I agree to a point. There are undesirables in every game and every monetization model but there are a few specific instances where the natural environment breeds them.
MMORPG's were a fun grouping experience before ...
... grouping became a job.
... min-maxing elitism became part of the "game."
... joining a group meant you had to have gobs of add-ons blocking your screen to the extent you couldn't even see your screen for all of the nonsense excel BS #'s lighting up in different colors and smacking you in the face telling you how much damage you need to be doing when, and which key you need to be hitting at ,any given time or else you'd be considered "substandard" and get kicked off the group/raid.
... you had to have a certain type of gear, or gear score, to even be allowed to join a group.
... the elitism mentality of kicking players off teams without any consideration for your fellow players became the en-vogue thing to do.
... the mentality that the end game was when the game really starts and everything a player does before that is just "a grind and a waste of time."
... you were forced to speed through a dungeon or else you'd be holding the group back and considered "substandard."
... if you don't finish the dungeon within a set amount of time the dungeon run is deemed a failure.
... group members began feeling entitled to all loot even though the looted gear did not fit their class instead of being considerate of their group mates who could use the gear.
... gear stopped being simply a symbol of admiration. When no one cared what gear the other player had before joining a dungeon run and everyone was in it for the fun. The sense of accomplishment was had by just completing the dungeon regardless of the gear worn by fellow group members.
... fellow group members stopped allowing you to read group quests and extended patience and consideration for players who had not done the group quests.
... etc etc etc ...
Yes, there was a time when none of the above existed when grouping. That was when grouping was a fun experience. Now days? No thanks! Give me the solo option any day of the week and twice on Sunday please.
The modern MMO player... if it's not awful, it can't possibly be fun.
"awful" is subjective. "fun" is subjective.
For example, EQ is awful for me, and fun for you. Wait ... The old MMO veteran, if its not awful, it can't possibly be fun.
So shall I change that to "The old MMO veterans, if it is not like a job and boring, it can't possibly be fun"?
Well, as I don't play for "fun" I have no frame of reference.
lol .. really? What do you play for? "Chores" and boredom? Or are you living a second life in a game?
Er, yes, I am living in a virtual world, so just like real life, I do "chores" (mining, ratting, etc) to earn ISK that I can later spend on items of value that help make the game more fun for me. (usually better ships, implants, modules etc).
The actual "chores" are not terribly fun, just like my real life job, I do them for the rewards and progression they provide, not because they are particularly enjoyable tasks in at of themselves.
I'm not "playing a game", I earning my way in a virtual universe and over the years I've become good at it, and just in real life, I've earned my way to the top tiers through hard work and effort.
It's not "fun", it's all about achievement and progression, and why I play titles such as EVE. Throw in the territory control and defense, and it's a formula that few "games' emulate, and why I have few choices available to me out there today.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
All this shit I am saying went a way just so developers can streamline boss fights for any party make up which is why grouping in any MMO has been shit since the day that WOTLK came out. Because people bitched that the best and top end guilds always built groups for efficiency not taking players they like to play with. These players blamed the game and said it was the game's fault for not making it so that everyone could make a top end guild. The players didnt take responsibility and say "Hey I need to either play the way that guild wants me to OR I need to find a like minded group of players to play with" But no we expect a game we pay for to conform to EXACTLY what we want. This is why MMOS are in the toilet. Do MMOs need to be at a certain level like not Gen 1 time sink demands yes because too few players play and the game will flop, but does the game need to try to get 12 million players so be good for everyone? FUCK NO
1) option to group - so people who have friends, with no (or tolerable) social politics can enjoy the MP version.
2) option to solo - people who don't want to deal with others can enjoy the content
3) may be LFR/pug mode - has to be much easier though since there is little coordination between strangers, and this is for those who like to have some people around, but don't want to go through the raid social stuff.
(1) and (2) will be nice. I don't think (3) is that important, but i included it for completeness.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Additionally, easy mode? You admittedly play every game easy mode style. Not a surprise in any way shape or form you could not discover the challenges that EVE can provide for a solo player in your brief "touch the surface" type of experience you had with this game, and every other video game you lay your judgemental claws on.
Please, lol.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Having such an insanely low level attention span really puts you in a position where you miss out on so much.
Makes me quite aware of how fortunate I am to not be so easily entertained.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
If i have more than enough entertainment, and that every single min is fun .. what am i missing? I doubt suffering through boring part of some "classical" style MMOs will eventually get me better entertainment than Diablo 3, Fallout 4, Dishonored, and so on ....
The only shame is people think they know better how others should use entertainment.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
The modern MMO player... if it's not awful, it can't possibly be fun.
"awful" is subjective. "fun" is subjective.
For example, EQ is awful for me, and fun for you. Wait ... The old MMO veteran, if its not awful, it can't possibly be fun.
So shall I change that to "The old MMO veterans, if it is not like a job and boring, it can't possibly be fun"?
You simply reinforced the point of my post. But in retrospect, replace "ever" with "never".
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Must have been a hell of an awful year.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I am going to disagree. I think most people enjoy gaming with others. The issue we face in the MMO and FPS world for that matter is what I call the "douchebag quotient". Games have been so simplified and "dumbed" down that the hardcore, the RPG player, is left dealing with 14 years olds that think the F-Bomb makes them sound like an adult and our immersion is ruined by 20 people all running around with names based on variations of star war characters or penis jokes.
You try to join with others and game but you spend so much time ducking the morons that it is frustrating, killing the game experience and makes you quit looking for other, like minded players.
I have been saying for the past two weeks, the PERFECT MMO style game to me would be to take a game like Fallout 4, give me up to 8 player co-op with a persistent server. Let me pick the people that would run with me, not make me be limited to who happens to be on.
The solo nature of the Fallout 4 style game would give great experiences when solo and the builder nature would let your small group work together on a great settlement, play tougher missions and together and when on have fun as a group but when off still feel like your with a group through the cooperation of the play.
MMOs as they where, during the "glory" days are dead, it is time for a new game style to pop up and for me the persistent co-op is the one I want to see.
=============================
I have a soap box and I am not afraid to use it.
Add OWPvP to this and I agree to a point. There are undesirables in every game and every monetization model but there are a few specific instances where the natural environment breeds them.
MMORPG's were a fun grouping experience before ...
... grouping became a job.
... min-maxing elitism became part of the "game."
... joining a group meant you had to have gobs of add-ons blocking your screen to the extent you couldn't even see your screen for all of the nonsense excel BS #'s lighting up in different colors and smacking you in the face telling you how much damage you need to be doing when, and which key you need to be hitting at ,any given time or else you'd be considered "substandard" and get kicked off the group/raid.
... you had to have a certain type of gear, or gear score, to even be allowed to join a group.
... the elitism mentality of kicking players off teams without any consideration for your fellow players became the en-vogue thing to do.
... the mentality that the end game was when the game really starts and everything a player does before that is just "a grind and a waste of time."
... you were forced to speed through a dungeon or else you'd be holding the group back and considered "substandard."
... if you don't finish the dungeon within a set amount of time the dungeon run is deemed a failure.
... group members began feeling entitled to all loot even though the looted gear did not fit their class instead of being considerate of their group mates who could use the gear.
... gear stopped being simply a symbol of admiration. When no one cared what gear the other player had before joining a dungeon run and everyone was in it for the fun. The sense of accomplishment was had by just completing the dungeon regardless of the gear worn by fellow group members.
... fellow group members stopped allowing you to read group quests and extended patience and consideration for players who had not done the group quests.
... etc etc etc ...
Yes, there was a time when none of the above existed when grouping. That was when grouping was a fun experience. Now days? No thanks! Give me the solo option any day of the week and twice on Sunday please.
You've made much better arguments in the past.
The actual "chores" are not terribly fun, just like my real life job, I do them for the rewards and progression they provide, not because they are particularly enjoyable tasks in at of themselves.
I'm not "playing a game", I earning my way in a virtual universe and over the years I've become good at it, and just in real life, I've earned my way to the top tiers through hard work and effort.
It's not "fun", it's all about achievement and progression, and why I play titles such as EVE. Throw in the territory control and defense, and it's a formula that few "games' emulate, and why I have few choices available to me out there today.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon