I have played this game for a few month and i have to say if you put aside for a moment Kawaii character creation and the game world, there is nothing left there.
A lot of MMO's have conflicts that game revolves around ( Horde vs Alliance, Jedi vs Sith, Getting the Ring to Mordor etc) even in Rift i was having so much fun defending realm against the Rift invaders. But in Black Desert, there is no real story there, there is no conflict, and there is no challenge.
All the NPC's in Black Desert are super weak. My character can sneeze and 3 out of 5 will already offer me their loot. It's really not fun when you don't have to fight for the treasure. It makes my character like having a Godly powers where all the NPC's in the game are just trash, that includes everyone.
The World Bosses in the game are nothing more than a boring grind, where you stand for up to 2 hours, watching the Health bar slowly fading away.
PvP revolves around 2 thing:
1) Money - this game is build to suck every little penny out of your Credit Card. The gear difference is sooo big that just a few extra Enchants can make you one shot other players. P2W to the core. Even though Daum EU said there won't be letting people sell Cash shop items at the start, a lot of people don't realise that the real P2W will come with Media update. That's what happen in RU region. It was easy to get to +15, and while that was the cap, the game felt balanced. But the moment the Media came to Russia, it was over. P2W people got quickly to +18, +19 with Boss Armor, while the common folk got stuck at +17. And that was the end game.
2) Grind - If you don't offer them your Credit Card than it's the only option of weeks and weeks of hard core grind. Killing thousands of trash mobs just for that 0.01% for something good to drop. And there is really no challenge there at all. It's just luck.
No Dungeons, no raids, no story, limited PvP. It's basically a cash grabbing game and nothing more in my eyes.
How do you feel about this game?
It's interesting to know that you have insider knowledge about Daum EU's plans for Mediah and beyond. Please enlighten us further and reveal your sources? Or is this a "i'm sure of it because i said so" thing?
No room for optimism eh? Lets wait for it to actually happen before complaining about something that, in all likelyhood, won't. It's not like the devs are unaware of how AA turned out in the west.
As for the grind: that's incredibly naive. Every MMO has a grind.
Though, you can try to convince me how running the same dungeon day in, day out, or the same raid week in, week out is not a grind
That said, BDO's grind is very enjoyable, at least to me. The combat system is just a lot of fun, not the dreary half-dead tab-targetting nonsense of other games.
TLDR: You don't know how the EUNA version is going to end up. Lets wait for it to actually happen.
Also, PA is currently working on a lot of PvE content as well, TBA. They already released a MASSIVE group dungeon in Valencia Part 2 (where you can actually get lost).
It's funny how people base it purely off the korean/russian versions of the game as opposed to following along and realizing that the EU/NA release is being catered to these areas and many things are changed around to not try and "squeeze" your wallet as much. The B2P model lets them make some stuff that is premium in the korean/russian versions to be open for everyone. Then we run into the fact that yes there is an RNG treadmill to upgrading. This is no different than a gear treadmill where you may have to roll on an rng based loot box many times. You are not garunteed to get your classes item nor the item you even need in a raid/dungeon in most mmorpgs and are sitting there rolling for loot running it multiple times.
All gear grind is gear grind and consist of some RNG for the most part in the case of Black Desert is it an enchanting grind that is based around a very low treadmill that people overblow. if you want to understand how enchanting actually works read. http://www.blackdeserttome.com/wiki/Enchantment . Jewelry differs some in that there is no safe enchant and requires two of the same item and if it fails both get destroyed (this may end up changing), people are of course going to whine when they aren't just handed power out like it is freaking candy though.
I'm glad you brought up World of Warcraft. Like many other gamers, it was a MMORPG that I spent many hours on and enjoyed. But the one thing that I noticed today while playing this genre since 2004 is that we have a variety of different players who come to these games looking for different experiences. I just don't understand why someone would play a MMORPG like it's just any other game.
These worlds feel more mechanical and less organic. I honestly see the seamless persistent open world disappearing in the future. The idea of Player vs Environment has absolutely changed. Apparently this means mandatory instant raids and 5-man dungeons. Don't forget those PvP battlegrounds you load into. The mentality of, "the game starts at endgame" is utter BS. You might as well have a normal RPG with different multiplayer modes.
Games like Destiny, and the upcoming The Division have decided to try and run away with these ideas. I don't want my MMORPGs to feel like just another game.
I was immediately intrigued after someone linked me the world tour videos and said that it's fully seamless with no fast travel.
I think there may be a resurgence of seamless open world going forward at least in the indie space and some smaller games. I think we'll see games like The Division pop up which are more kind of open world but less full on mmorpg too though, there is room for everything. Frankly Black Desert does a good job of travel, animations, and tons of other open world stuff that makes the world actually feel sort of alive....
An example of animations and movement in general can be seen with the mounts where they clearly studied how a horse or a donkey ACTUALLY has to turn instead of it just pointing in the direction you want to run in actually has to turn around toward it. There isn't as much interdependence as I'd like, but there are games coming that interdependence is again a necessity at least sort of.
This game isn't going to cater to the themepark heavy crowd though that just likes quest hub grinds and "end game" content as a lot of the content later on ends up heavily player driven even though they are trying to slowly find a balance of both.
Have'nt played the game but from what i have heard and the many videos I have seen the OP is kinda correct. The mobs are super easy for anyone and the world bosses take an age to kill. The game world sure is pretty but is that enough?
Personally I am going be using this game as a gap filler until Camelot Unchained or Chronicles of Elyria come out.
So people are complaining that there is a challenge and that stuff is too easy at the same time ? Seems kind of dumb don't you think? There are non boss mobs that are harder to fight that will take 2 - 3 people to take on at minimum (you can do it with one but it'll take awhile) the game definitely doesn't cater to the generalized themepark crowd and nor would Camelot Unchained (that one won't even cater to the crowd that liked DAOC in large part, only the segment that really like the realm vs realm etc stuff and the PVP) as it is almost an entirely PVP focused game relying on very very very very little PVE content. Chronicles of Elyria at least as described seems to offer the best choice in the future, but it will be awhile before that comes.
I think that most MMOs released or being released are mostly designed to capture the crowd of people who can't wait to jump to the next and newest thing. It doesn't bother me and I'll likely play BDO for a few months where the money spent on purchasing the game will net me a very efficient level of entertainment for the money spent.
I have higher hopes for Camelot Unchained and Star Citizen but we'll see!
I have no real hopes for Camelot Unchained. There is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much of a focus on the PVP mechanics of RVRVR which is going to turn a lot of people off that already have so called "content" problems with something like black desert. The only real hope for Camelot Unchained is that it will be a good PVP game, but beyond that it's not going to attract a wider player base and they need to be prepared for the player base it will ultimately attract.
I'm glad you brought up World of Warcraft. Like many other gamers, it was a MMORPG that I spent many hours on and enjoyed. But the one thing that I noticed today while playing this genre since 2004 is that we have a variety of different players who come to these games looking for different experiences. I just don't understand why someone would play a MMORPG like it's just any other game.
These worlds feel more mechanical and less organic. I honestly see the seamless persistent open world disappearing in the future. The idea of Player vs Environment has absolutely changed. Apparently this means mandatory instant raids and 5-man dungeons. Don't forget those PvP battlegrounds you load into. The mentality of, "the game starts at endgame" is utter BS. You might as well have a normal RPG with different multiplayer modes.
Games like Destiny, and the upcoming The Division have decided to try and run away with these ideas. I don't want my MMORPGs to feel like just another game.
I was immediately intrigued after someone linked me the world tour videos and said that it's fully seamless with no fast travel.
I think there may be a resurgence of seamless open world going forward at least in the indie space and some smaller games. I think we'll see games like The Division pop up which are more kind of open world but less full on mmorpg too though, there is room for everything. Frankly Black Desert does a good job of travel, animations, and tons of other open world stuff that makes the world actually feel sort of alive....
An example of animations and movement in general can be seen with the mounts where they clearly studied how a horse or a donkey ACTUALLY has to turn instead of it just pointing in the direction you want to run in actually has to turn around toward it. There isn't as much interdependence as I'd like, but there are games coming that interdependence is again a necessity at least sort of.
This game isn't going to cater to the themepark heavy crowd though that just likes quest hub grinds and "end game" content as a lot of the content later on ends up heavily player driven even though they are trying to slowly find a balance of both.
You do realise that once you are done with your gear upgrade, there is nothing left to do in the game?
You get 1 time PvP event pr. week, in either Sieges or Territorial wars and that's it.
GvG while it exists in the game isn't really encouraged, and mostly gets ruined by channel jumping.
There is more to do in BDO then just fighting mobs. As for the endgame, yes, it's definitely centered around GvG warfare. BDO isn't going to be exciting for solo players, especially for endgame. It can't be stressed enough that MMO's were originally designed as cooperative / group oriented games with minimal solo content. The problem with MMO's now is they have catered to that solo crowd so much that grouping up has become boring / pointless / zero challenge. BDO has a good mix of solo and group content and like most MMO's that do, it's the group focused content that matters. Solo content is just filler for players that don't always feel like grouping up and just want to chill out and go fish, craft or do trade runs.
I think more to the point, the people who have issues with the game are a different type of player. They are the players (and there is nothing wrong with this) who enter the game and say "ok, entertain me".
Then there are the players who are clear in what they want to accomplish. They are not looking to be entertained so much as wanting to follow their inclinations in order to entertain themselves.
They are willing to be given a rule set and ways to do things and then they want to go do them.
I think solo players can do well enough in BDO provided they are self sufficient and are probably the type to want to be a PK'er. They are going to run into some issues with guilds but that is the relationship such players have always had with guilds. It's what make the world interesting to those who are willing to buy into what is being offered.
This is not to say that there isn't room for improvement but clearly this game is for a certain type of player.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I think that most MMOs released or being released are mostly designed to capture the crowd of people who can't wait to jump to the next and newest thing. It doesn't bother me and I'll likely play BDO for a few months where the money spent on purchasing the game will net me a very efficient level of entertainment for the money spent.
I have higher hopes for Camelot Unchained and Star Citizen but we'll see!
I have no real hopes for Camelot Unchained. There is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much of a focus on the PVP mechanics of RVRVR which is going to turn a lot of people off that already have so called "content" problems with something like black desert. The only real hope for Camelot Unchained is that it will be a good PVP game, but beyond that it's not going to attract a wider player base and they need to be prepared for the player base it will ultimately attract.
Except they know what type of player they are going to attract. That is why they are making this game.
Every time I see a post like yours what I'm really reading is "their game design is going to keep away the good people and they are going to be left with the dregs and a small number of them at that".
It's a very biased view. Especially because there are equally as many crappy pve players out there (I've run into many of them).
Camelot Unchained is going to be a niche game and that is what they are making "a niche game".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Are you looking for others to change your mind about the game? By the look of your post it sounds to me like you've already made up your mind and seem quite adamant that the game is vapor ware. Are you having second thoughts or are you just looking for supportive negative reinforcement?
It's quite obvious he was starting a discussion about everyones thoughts and feelings on the game. People don't have to agree on things to have a discussion about why or why they don't like something.
Haven t played it enough to know this answer to a question. My wife and I actually love grinding, we aren t into big guilds, but don t mind smaller ones, and grouping can be hard as we own a restaurant, and have to leave with no notice sometimes.
Can we do all what the game offers as a duo, can we do dungeons as a duo, can we join a larger raid as a duo to do castle sieges etc? We will group up when we can, just like to know if we can do some of these as a duo, and won t effect anyone if we have to leave with no notice during a castle siege?
I'm glad you brought up World of Warcraft. Like many other gamers, it was a MMORPG that I spent many hours on and enjoyed. But the one thing that I noticed today while playing this genre since 2004 is that we have a variety of different players who come to these games looking for different experiences. I just don't understand why someone would play a MMORPG like it's just any other game.
These worlds feel more mechanical and less organic. I honestly see the seamless persistent open world disappearing in the future. The idea of Player vs Environment has absolutely changed. Apparently this means mandatory instant raids and 5-man dungeons. Don't forget those PvP battlegrounds you load into. The mentality of, "the game starts at endgame" is utter BS. You might as well have a normal RPG with different multiplayer modes.
Games like Destiny, and the upcoming The Division have decided to try and run away with these ideas. I don't want my MMORPGs to feel like just another game.
I was immediately intrigued after someone linked me the world tour videos and said that it's fully seamless with no fast travel.
I think there may be a resurgence of seamless open world going forward at least in the indie space and some smaller games. I think we'll see games like The Division pop up which are more kind of open world but less full on mmorpg too though, there is room for everything. Frankly Black Desert does a good job of travel, animations, and tons of other open world stuff that makes the world actually feel sort of alive....
An example of animations and movement in general can be seen with the mounts where they clearly studied how a horse or a donkey ACTUALLY has to turn instead of it just pointing in the direction you want to run in actually has to turn around toward it. There isn't as much interdependence as I'd like, but there are games coming that interdependence is again a necessity at least sort of.
This game isn't going to cater to the themepark heavy crowd though that just likes quest hub grinds and "end game" content as a lot of the content later on ends up heavily player driven even though they are trying to slowly find a balance of both.
You do realise that once you are done with your gear upgrade, there is nothing left to do in the game?
You get 1 time PvP event pr. week, in either Sieges or Territorial wars and that's it.
GvG while it exists in the game isn't really encouraged, and mostly gets ruined by channel jumping.
What was your experience with those seiges and territory wars? Were they fun?
I keep asking because I want to know if you participated in a single one in your months of playing.
I imagine it would be hard to on a server where you don't speak the language of everyone else, but seiges and preparing for them makes up the bulk of the endgame currently (although more is being added).
If you never participated in one then yeah you might find the endgame to be pretty lackluster.
You are correct. People who have actually played at endgame know there is very little content beyond monotonous farming for gear upgrades.
The PVP is not even good due to massive RNG stat advantages allowing a player to 1 shot people and mega server shards allowing people to easily dodge GvG or pile into node wars creating a massive zerg fest.
Regardless, the pretty graphics and flashy combat are enough to sell many people. They don't seem to get that once you have spent a week running around the same places and seeing the same animations over and over that stuff becomes irrelevant.
When they see the lack of good gameplay and realize that its all just an elaborate cash extraction simulator they will leave and this will be just another 1 month and done game to add to the pile.
Sure, in all likelihood the game will not sustain a large population for more than a couple of months. But you're a complete idiot if you think the game is a "cash extraction simulator". There are so many niche systems in Black Desert that have no chance of appealing to the masses. Significant effort went into crafting, trading, farming, etc.. things that many players will never even experience. If a reasonable developer was looking for a quick payday, they'd make a mobile game.
Obviously the whole upgrade system that most of these Eastern MMOs use is terrible, but you're completely overstating the huge advantages. You'll likely lose to a less skilled player who outgears you by a decent amount, but no competent player is ever getting "one shot".
It's still a high budget game with some nice sandbox elements. At worst it gives you a couple months of entertainment for $30. Black Desert has some potential, hopefully it's at least somewhat realized.
Are you looking for others to change your mind about the game? By the look of your post it sounds to me like you've already made up your mind and seem quite adamant that the game is vapor ware. Are you having second thoughts or are you just looking for supportive negative reinforcement?
It's quite obvious he was starting a discussion about everyones thoughts and feelings on the game. People don't have to agree on things to have a discussion about why or why they don't like something.
All he did was bash the game in the OP. The only thing obvious about the OP was that it was a disguised passive/aggressive troll post. You start a topic of discussion by questioning and eliciting thought of the subject matter, not by bashing and trolling it. Those who find no fault with his message will see nothing wrong with it because they agree with him and it successfully satisfies their objective.
I've never understood the "grind" label when it comes to MMO's. MMO's by nature are a grind. Life is a grind, MMOs are a kind of abstract representation of life.
The thing that attracts me to this game is all of the non-combat stuff to do. I love all the economic, guild sandbox type of stuff.
Sure, in all likelihood the game will not sustain a large population for more than a couple of months. But you're a complete idiot if you think the game is a "cash extraction simulator". There are so many niche systems in Black Desert that have no chance of appealing to the masses. Significant effort went into crafting, trading, farming, etc.. things that many players will never even experience. If a reasonable developer was looking for a quick payday, they'd make a mobile game.
Obviously the whole upgrade system that most of these Eastern MMOs use is terrible, but you're completely overstating the huge advantages. You'll likely lose to a less skilled player who outgears you by a decent amount, but no competent player is ever getting "one shot".
It's still a high budget game with some nice sandbox elements. At worst it gives you a couple months of entertainment for $30. Black Desert has some potential, hopefully it's at least somewhat realized.
The 'niche' systems are all completely based around acquiring gold and materials for gear upgrades. There is no challenge or skill, its just training the player to login daily and spend the allotted energy ration on crafting/gathering.
The 'Depth' is just learning how to navigate a complex set of menus. Having 20 ways to craft and gather does not equal sandbox since you are not actually affecting the world.
The cash extraction simulator is based on how they ran the game in Korea and Russia, as well as how they have run previous games such as Vindictus. Perhaps to some people a company's management history is not an important factor, but I find their claim that BDO NA/EU will be non-p2w when their entire history is P2W cash shops to be very dubious.
The RNG crafting casino gear upgrades confer massive advantages and completely unbalance pvp. Whether its 3 shot, 5 shot or takes zero damage in a 3v1 doesn't really matter.
These days, you need to be a content-rich-monster of an MMO on launchday. "More coming soon" just doesn't seem to cut it anymore.
The powerlevellers will reach endgame in record time, get bored of it and speak bad things on forums and the sort, potentially driving away a lot of would-be players. Dropping content later doesn't seem to redeem it's initially bad name either.
Then again.....none seem to really die out either. They all seem to keep a core amount of fans playing.
Those people who do not think this will turn into a huge cash grab are naive...it's developed by AA developers, it has a labor type system, it has RNG gear that makes 1000% the difference in PvP...and if you think they are looking at Trion's management of AA as a failure you are mistaken...Trion has managed to milk every last penny out of the players and made massive profits on what would be a minor blip of a game on the market.
Remember, Archeage was all about "No tricks, No traps" zero cash grab incentives at release until rumbling archeum.....and then it tumbled into horseshit afterwards.
I can't believe how many people think all MMORPGs have to be grindy here. I admit all of them at some point can be a bit grindy, but that isn't a necessity of the genre. If the combat is fun and varied, it isn't grindy, if you can do different kinds of activities it isn't grindy.
I'm glad you brought up World of Warcraft. Like many other gamers, it was a MMORPG that I spent many hours on and enjoyed. But the one thing that I noticed today while playing this genre since 2004 is that we have a variety of different players who come to these games looking for different experiences. I just don't understand why someone would play a MMORPG like it's just any other game.
These worlds feel more mechanical and less organic. I honestly see the seamless persistent open world disappearing in the future. The idea of Player vs Environment has absolutely changed. Apparently this means mandatory instant raids and 5-man dungeons. Don't forget those PvP battlegrounds you load into. The mentality of, "the game starts at endgame" is utter BS. You might as well have a normal RPG with different multiplayer modes.
Games like Destiny, and the upcoming The Division have decided to try and run away with these ideas. I don't want my MMORPGs to feel like just another game.
I was immediately intrigued after someone linked me the world tour videos and said that it's fully seamless with no fast travel.
I think there may be a resurgence of seamless open world going forward at least in the indie space and some smaller games. I think we'll see games like The Division pop up which are more kind of open world but less full on mmorpg too though, there is room for everything. Frankly Black Desert does a good job of travel, animations, and tons of other open world stuff that makes the world actually feel sort of alive....
An example of animations and movement in general can be seen with the mounts where they clearly studied how a horse or a donkey ACTUALLY has to turn instead of it just pointing in the direction you want to run in actually has to turn around toward it. There isn't as much interdependence as I'd like, but there are games coming that interdependence is again a necessity at least sort of.
This game isn't going to cater to the themepark heavy crowd though that just likes quest hub grinds and "end game" content as a lot of the content later on ends up heavily player driven even though they are trying to slowly find a balance of both.
You do realise that once you are done with your gear upgrade, there is nothing left to do in the game?
You get 1 time PvP event pr. week, in either Sieges or Territorial wars and that's it.
GvG while it exists in the game isn't really encouraged, and mostly gets ruined by channel jumping.
What was your experience with those seiges and territory wars? Were they fun?
I keep asking because I want to know if you participated in a single one in your months of playing.
I imagine it would be hard to on a server where you don't speak the language of everyone else, but seiges and preparing for them makes up the bulk of the endgame currently (although more is being added).
If you never participated in one then yeah you might find the endgame to be pretty lackluster.
Hrm. I guess I'm just not the type of player who needs endgame dungeons, raids, or arena style PvP. I grew up playing MMORPGs where player-driven experiences were very important. With that said, those things aren't necessarily bad since I've had my share of enjoyment in thempark games.
In fact, I currently play The Elder Scrolls Online. I like the world building. Not to mention there's actual exploration(which is very important me)! It's also a theorycrafter's dream because you can play a single class so many different ways. The crafting is interesting and the numerous amount of crafted armor sets are very much viable. The PvP experience is better than some others(in my opinion), and the endgame is a great change of pace. You have 12-man Trials, the Dragonstar & Malestrone Arena, hard mode 4-man dungeons, story-driven Adventure Zones, crafting high level traited armor, and Cyrodiil. And yes...while I dislike like veteran ranks, I do like the option of playing through other factions' story/zones.
This pass month I've logged on almost every day to only craft, did very little PvP, and roleplay with my guildmates. I think many players would have dipped if that's what they spent their time on. There's now talk of player housing coming to ESO which I think is going to be great. Hell, I dedicate hours to just reading the books I collected and running around simply because I've been in love with Tamriel since TESII.
I believe that "your" imagination plays a big role with immersion in these games. Not to mention "RP" is the most important two letters in MMORPG. I don't necessarily need some of the tools that other people require to play a massive multiplayer online role playing game. If it wasn't for some of the design decisions made by XL Games and Trion; I could see myself just fishing, tending to my house, and crafting while occasionally PvPing/doing dungeons.
Those people who do not think this will turn into a huge cash grab are naive...it's developed by AA developers, it has a labor type system, it has RNG gear that makes 1000% the difference in PvP...and if you think they are looking at Trion's management of AA as a failure you are mistaken...Trion has managed to milk every last penny out of the players and made massive profits on what would be a minor blip of a game on the market.
Remember, Archeage was all about "No tricks, No traps" zero cash grab incentives at release until rumbling archeum.....and then it tumbled into horseshit afterwards.
You are aware AAA doesn't necessarily mean a game is actually good or anything you are aware off this right? Nor does it have anything to do with the skill level of the developer. AAA literally is a description based around game budget and promotion or a high review score and has no basis for anything else...
If you are stating that it is being made by archeage developers on the other hand are you high or what? Pearl Abyss and XLGames are TWO entirely different companies and Daum isn't involved in Archeage at all. We aren't receiving the game as f2p and many things are literally being retooled. Yes it may turn into a cash grab eventually, but I've seen a good faith effort at the hands of pearl abyss and daum europe to cater the game more to the NA/EU crowd.
Things like removing cash shop items that were considered P2W happened already and the game is buy to play which should avoid some of the bull shit that pops up due to a lack of buy in. There isn't this sub system where only subs get faster "labor" regen or only subs can own houses. Archeage was considered by "many" (not myself) to be p2w from the get go due to labor pots. There are also intelligent ways to avoid using up your "labor" if you actually bother using your workers and the like with any sort of thought.
I think it is unfair to call people naive for being optimistic when Daum and Pearl Abyss have shown left and right that they are catering the game to our market though.
I think it is unfair to call people naive for being optimistic when Daum and Pearl Abyss have shown left and right that they are catering the game to our market though.
Every game they have ever been involved in is a P2W cash shop. They have zero credibility, so why you and others keep thinking it will be different this time just because they said so is mind boggling.
I would bet that they purposely added those P2W items and then removed them as a very calculated PR move. They setup a problem for themselves to fix in order to look like they are such 'great' and 'caring' devs.
Their entire marketing campaign is simply meant to bring in a large user base and get them hooked in before they flip the P2W switch on. I guarantee in 6 months or less the game will go full F2P with mega cash shop.
I'm glad you brought up World of Warcraft. Like many other gamers, it was a MMORPG that I spent many hours on and enjoyed. But the one thing that I noticed today while playing this genre since 2004 is that we have a variety of different players who come to these games looking for different experiences. I just don't understand why someone would play a MMORPG like it's just any other game.
These worlds feel more mechanical and less organic. I honestly see the seamless persistent open world disappearing in the future. The idea of Player vs Environment has absolutely changed. Apparently this means mandatory instant raids and 5-man dungeons. Don't forget those PvP battlegrounds you load into. The mentality of, "the game starts at endgame" is utter BS. You might as well have a normal RPG with different multiplayer modes.
Games like Destiny, and the upcoming The Division have decided to try and run away with these ideas. I don't want my MMORPGs to feel like just another game.
I was immediately intrigued after someone linked me the world tour videos and said that it's fully seamless with no fast travel.
I think there may be a resurgence of seamless open world going forward at least in the indie space and some smaller games. I think we'll see games like The Division pop up which are more kind of open world but less full on mmorpg too though, there is room for everything. Frankly Black Desert does a good job of travel, animations, and tons of other open world stuff that makes the world actually feel sort of alive....
An example of animations and movement in general can be seen with the mounts where they clearly studied how a horse or a donkey ACTUALLY has to turn instead of it just pointing in the direction you want to run in actually has to turn around toward it. There isn't as much interdependence as I'd like, but there are games coming that interdependence is again a necessity at least sort of.
This game isn't going to cater to the themepark heavy crowd though that just likes quest hub grinds and "end game" content as a lot of the content later on ends up heavily player driven even though they are trying to slowly find a balance of both.
You do realise that once you are done with your gear upgrade, there is nothing left to do in the game?
You get 1 time PvP event pr. week, in either Sieges or Territorial wars and that's it.
GvG while it exists in the game isn't really encouraged, and mostly gets ruined by channel jumping.
What was your experience with those seiges and territory wars? Were they fun?
I keep asking because I want to know if you participated in a single one in your months of playing.
I imagine it would be hard to on a server where you don't speak the language of everyone else, but seiges and preparing for them makes up the bulk of the endgame currently (although more is being added).
If you never participated in one then yeah you might find the endgame to be pretty lackluster.
Hrm. I guess I'm just not the type of player who needs endgame dungeons, raids, or arena style PvP. I grew up playing MMORPGs where player-driven experiences were very important. With that said, those things aren't necessarily bad since I've had my share of enjoyment in thempark games.
In fact, I currently play The Elder Scrolls Online. I like the world building. Not to mention there's actual exploration(which is very important me)! It's also a theorycrafter's dream because you can play a single class so many different ways. The crafting is interesting and the numerous amount of crafted armor sets are very much viable. The PvP experience is better than some others(in my opinion), and the endgame is a great change of pace. You have 12-man Trials, the Dragonstar & Malestrone Arena, hard mode 4-man dungeons, story-driven Adventure Zones, crafting high level traited armor, and Cyrodiil. And yes...while I dislike like veteran ranks, I do like the option of playing through other factions' story/zones.
This pass month I've logged on almost every day to only craft, did very little PvP, and roleplay with my guildmates. I think many players would have dipped if that's what they spent their time on. There's now talk of player housing coming to ESO which I think is going to be great. Hell, I dedicate hours to just reading the books I collected and running around simply because I've been in love with Tamriel since TESII.
I believe that "your" imagination plays a big role with immersion in these games. Not to mention "RP" is the most important two letters in MMORPG. I don't necessarily need some of the tools that other people require to play a massive multiplayer online role playing game. If it wasn't for some of the design decisions made by XL Games and Trion; I could see myself just fishing, tending to my house, and crafting while occasionally PvPing/doing dungeons.
I agree with what you're saying and I do think BDO is going to be a roleplayer/fisher/crafter/horsebreeder/trader paradise, but the OP clearly isn't interested in that stuff.
Keep in mind that if we are to believe the OP that he's played the game for months, he's played it on a server where he probably doesn't speak the language of anyone else. That limits roleplaying possibilities and whatnot by a lot.
My main point though is I doubt he's participated even once in the major focus of the endgame (seiges and territory wars), and then he's complaining there's nothing to do.
I think it is unfair to call people naive for being optimistic when Daum and Pearl Abyss have shown left and right that they are catering the game to our market though.
Every game they have ever been involved in is a P2W cash shop. They have zero credibility, so why you and others keep thinking it will be different this time just because they said so is mind boggling.
I would bet that they purposely added those P2W items and then removed them as a very calculated PR move. They setup a problem for themselves to fix in order to look like they are such 'great' and 'caring' devs.
Their entire marketing campaign is simply meant to bring in a large user base and get them hooked in before they flip the P2W switch on. I guarantee in 6 months or less the game will go full F2P with mega cash shop.
"I would bet that they purposely added those P2W items and then removed them as a very calculated PR move. They setup a problem for themselves to fix in order to look like they are such 'great' and 'caring' devs."
How many tin foil hats do you own?
"Their entire marketing campaign is simply meant to bring in a large user base and get them hooked in before they flip the P2W switch on. I guarantee in 6 months or less the game will go full F2P with mega cash shop."
OK, yes, we get it. You say this about 5 times in every thread about this game. Can't you just be content with waiting 6 months and then coming back and telling us all that you told us so?
Those people who do not think this will turn into a huge cash grab are naive...it's developed by AA developers, it has a labor type system, it has RNG gear that makes 1000% the difference in PvP...and if you think they are looking at Trion's management of AA as a failure you are mistaken...Trion has managed to milk every last penny out of the players and made massive profits on what would be a minor blip of a game on the market.
Remember, Archeage was all about "No tricks, No traps" zero cash grab incentives at release until rumbling archeum.....and then it tumbled into horseshit afterwards.
There was plenty of cash grabbing at the start of AA. It opened with a full-on p2w cash shop with limited labor, selling labor potions and upgrade enhancers for endgame gear.
Then they went even further.
This game is starting B2P with no p2w in the cash shop.
At the VERY LEAST, these 2 games are opening very differently so I'm not sure why everyone thinks they're destined for the same ending.
Comments
But people need to do some research before posting.
The game HAS dungeons. And more are coming soon.
Don´t forget the game actually has exploration. The world is amazing and full of wonderful places.
You also can build ships, farm, housing, fishing and so....
Apart from pvp guild vs guild (main focus)
End game is not raiding thats a wow thing.
No room for optimism eh? Lets wait for it to actually happen before complaining about something that, in all likelyhood, won't. It's not like the devs are unaware of how AA turned out in the west.
As for the grind: that's incredibly naive. Every MMO has a grind.
Though, you can try to convince me how running the same dungeon day in, day out, or the same raid week in, week out is not a grind
That said, BDO's grind is very enjoyable, at least to me. The combat system is just a lot of fun, not the dreary half-dead tab-targetting nonsense of other games.
TLDR: You don't know how the EUNA version is going to end up. Lets wait for it to actually happen.
Also, PA is currently working on a lot of PvE content as well, TBA. They already released a MASSIVE group dungeon in Valencia Part 2 (where you can actually get lost).
Playing: WF
Played: WoW, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL (2005), GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH (RIP), STO, TSW, TERA, EVE, ESO, BDO
Tried: EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG, DN, Vindictus, AA
All gear grind is gear grind and consist of some RNG for the most part in the case of Black Desert is it an enchanting grind that is based around a very low treadmill that people overblow. if you want to understand how enchanting actually works read. http://www.blackdeserttome.com/wiki/Enchantment . Jewelry differs some in that there is no safe enchant and requires two of the same item and if it fails both get destroyed (this may end up changing), people are of course going to whine when they aren't just handed power out like it is freaking candy though.
An example of animations and movement in general can be seen with the mounts where they clearly studied how a horse or a donkey ACTUALLY has to turn instead of it just pointing in the direction you want to run in actually has to turn around toward it. There isn't as much interdependence as I'd like, but there are games coming that interdependence is again a necessity at least sort of.
This game isn't going to cater to the themepark heavy crowd though that just likes quest hub grinds and "end game" content as a lot of the content later on ends up heavily player driven even though they are trying to slowly find a balance of both.
So people are complaining that there is a challenge and that stuff is too easy at the same time ? Seems kind of dumb don't you think? There are non boss mobs that are harder to fight that will take 2 - 3 people to take on at minimum (you can do it with one but it'll take awhile) the game definitely doesn't cater to the generalized themepark crowd and nor would Camelot Unchained (that one won't even cater to the crowd that liked DAOC in large part, only the segment that really like the realm vs realm etc stuff and the PVP) as it is almost an entirely PVP focused game relying on very very very very little PVE content. Chronicles of Elyria at least as described seems to offer the best choice in the future, but it will be awhile before that comes.
I have no real hopes for Camelot Unchained. There is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much of a focus on the PVP mechanics of RVRVR which is going to turn a lot of people off that already have so called "content" problems with something like black desert. The only real hope for Camelot Unchained is that it will be a good PVP game, but beyond that it's not going to attract a wider player base and they need to be prepared for the player base it will ultimately attract.
You do realise that once you are done with your gear upgrade, there is nothing left to do in the game?
You get 1 time PvP event pr. week, in either Sieges or Territorial wars and that's it.
GvG while it exists in the game isn't really encouraged, and mostly gets ruined by channel jumping.
Then there are the players who are clear in what they want to accomplish. They are not looking to be entertained so much as wanting to follow their inclinations in order to entertain themselves.
They are willing to be given a rule set and ways to do things and then they want to go do them.
I think solo players can do well enough in BDO provided they are self sufficient and are probably the type to want to be a PK'er. They are going to run into some issues with guilds but that is the relationship such players have always had with guilds. It's what make the world interesting to those who are willing to buy into what is being offered.
This is not to say that there isn't room for improvement but clearly this game is for a certain type of player.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Except they know what type of player they are going to attract. That is why they are making this game.
Every time I see a post like yours what I'm really reading is "their game design is going to keep away the good people and they are going to be left with the dregs and a small number of them at that".
It's a very biased view. Especially because there are equally as many crappy pve players out there (I've run into many of them).
Camelot Unchained is going to be a niche game and that is what they are making "a niche game".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Haven t played it enough to know this answer to a question. My wife and I actually love grinding, we aren t into big guilds, but don t mind smaller ones, and grouping can be hard as we own a restaurant, and have to leave with no notice sometimes.
Can we do all what the game offers as a duo, can we do dungeons as a duo, can we join a larger raid as a duo to do castle sieges etc? We will group up when we can, just like to know if we can do some of these as a duo, and won t effect anyone if we have to leave with no notice during a castle siege?
I keep asking because I want to know if you participated in a single one in your months of playing.
I imagine it would be hard to on a server where you don't speak the language of everyone else, but seiges and preparing for them makes up the bulk of the endgame currently (although more is being added).
If you never participated in one then yeah you might find the endgame to be pretty lackluster.
Obviously the whole upgrade system that most of these Eastern MMOs use is terrible, but you're completely overstating the huge advantages. You'll likely lose to a less skilled player who outgears you by a decent amount, but no competent player is ever getting "one shot".
It's still a high budget game with some nice sandbox elements. At worst it gives you a couple months of entertainment for $30. Black Desert has some potential, hopefully it's at least somewhat realized.
All he did was bash the game in the OP. The only thing obvious about the OP was that it was a disguised passive/aggressive troll post. You start a topic of discussion by questioning and eliciting thought of the subject matter, not by bashing and trolling it. Those who find no fault with his message will see nothing wrong with it because they agree with him and it successfully satisfies their objective.
The thing that attracts me to this game is all of the non-combat stuff to do. I love all the economic, guild sandbox type of stuff.
The 'niche' systems are all completely based around acquiring gold and materials for gear upgrades. There is no challenge or skill, its just training the player to login daily and spend the allotted energy ration on crafting/gathering.
The 'Depth' is just learning how to navigate a complex set of menus. Having 20 ways to craft and gather does not equal sandbox since you are not actually affecting the world.
The cash extraction simulator is based on how they ran the game in Korea and Russia, as well as how they have run previous games such as Vindictus. Perhaps to some people a company's management history is not an important factor, but I find their claim that BDO NA/EU will be non-p2w when their entire history is P2W cash shops to be very dubious.
The RNG crafting casino gear upgrades confer massive advantages and completely unbalance pvp. Whether its 3 shot, 5 shot or takes zero damage in a 3v1 doesn't really matter.
The powerlevellers will reach endgame in record time, get bored of it and speak bad things on forums and the sort, potentially driving away a lot of would-be players. Dropping content later doesn't seem to redeem it's initially bad name either.
Then again.....none seem to really die out either. They all seem to keep a core amount of fans playing.
Just my observation on the past few MMO's.
Remember, Archeage was all about "No tricks, No traps" zero cash grab incentives at release until rumbling archeum.....and then it tumbled into horseshit afterwards.
In fact, I currently play The Elder Scrolls Online. I like the world building. Not to mention there's actual exploration(which is very important me)! It's also a theorycrafter's dream because you can play a single class so many different ways. The crafting is interesting and the numerous amount of crafted armor sets are very much viable. The PvP experience is better than some others(in my opinion), and the endgame is a great change of pace. You have 12-man Trials, the Dragonstar & Malestrone Arena, hard mode 4-man dungeons, story-driven Adventure Zones, crafting high level traited armor, and Cyrodiil. And yes...while I dislike like veteran ranks, I do like the option of playing through other factions' story/zones.
This pass month I've logged on almost every day to only craft, did very little PvP, and roleplay with my guildmates. I think many players would have dipped if that's what they spent their time on. There's now talk of player housing coming to ESO which I think is going to be great. Hell, I dedicate hours to just reading the books I collected and running around simply because I've been in love with Tamriel since TESII.
I believe that "your" imagination plays a big role with immersion in these games. Not to mention "RP" is the most important two letters in MMORPG. I don't necessarily need some of the tools that other people require to play a massive multiplayer online role playing game. If it wasn't for some of the design decisions made by XL Games and Trion; I could see myself just fishing, tending to my house, and crafting while occasionally PvPing/doing dungeons.
If you are stating that it is being made by archeage developers on the other hand are you high or what? Pearl Abyss and XLGames are TWO entirely different companies and Daum isn't involved in Archeage at all. We aren't receiving the game as f2p and many things are literally being retooled. Yes it may turn into a cash grab eventually, but I've seen a good faith effort at the hands of pearl abyss and daum europe to cater the game more to the NA/EU crowd.
Things like removing cash shop items that were considered P2W happened already and the game is buy to play which should avoid some of the bull shit that pops up due to a lack of buy in. There isn't this sub system where only subs get faster "labor" regen or only subs can own houses. Archeage was considered by "many" (not myself) to be p2w from the get go due to labor pots. There are also intelligent ways to avoid using up your "labor" if you actually bother using your workers and the like with any sort of thought.
I think it is unfair to call people naive for being optimistic when Daum and Pearl Abyss have shown left and right that they are catering the game to our market though.
I would bet that they purposely added those P2W items and then removed them as a very calculated PR move. They setup a problem for themselves to fix in order to look like they are such 'great' and 'caring' devs.
Their entire marketing campaign is simply meant to bring in a large user base and get them hooked in before they flip the P2W switch on. I guarantee in 6 months or less the game will go full F2P with mega cash shop.
Keep in mind that if we are to believe the OP that he's played the game for months, he's played it on a server where he probably doesn't speak the language of anyone else. That limits roleplaying possibilities and whatnot by a lot.
My main point though is I doubt he's participated even once in the major focus of the endgame (seiges and territory wars), and then he's complaining there's nothing to do.
"I would bet that they purposely added those P2W items and then removed them as a very calculated PR move. They setup a problem for themselves to fix in order to look like they are such 'great' and 'caring' devs."
How many tin foil hats do you own?
"Their entire marketing campaign is simply meant to bring in a large user base and get them hooked in before they flip the P2W switch on. I guarantee in 6 months or less the game will go full F2P with mega cash shop."
OK, yes, we get it. You say this about 5 times in every thread about this game. Can't you just be content with waiting 6 months and then coming back and telling us all that you told us so?
There was plenty of cash grabbing at the start of AA. It opened with a full-on p2w cash shop with limited labor, selling labor potions and upgrade enhancers for endgame gear.
Then they went even further.
This game is starting B2P with no p2w in the cash shop.
At the VERY LEAST, these 2 games are opening very differently so I'm not sure why everyone thinks they're destined for the same ending.