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Challenging PvE
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
Challenging PvE
Watching videos of players that manage to get through Skyrim and Fallout 4 playing as a pacifist is both astonishing and an example of my favorite thing about humans, our creative ingenuity. These determined gamers refuse to accept what is laid before them, instead they bend the game to their will and rewrite it on their terms. It got me thinking, could PVErs do the same in a game as PVP focused as Camelot Unchained?
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Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
That being said, I REALLY hope CU is a success, I hope all the PVP centric MMOS are a success, the sooner mmos go back to catering to the player base it wants, rather than trying to attract them all with bits of content the better.
What I mean by this is, I would rather the REALLY good PVP mmos get the PVP players, then that way the PVE mmos can focus on that, the social experiment MMOS can do their thing and everyone can play the kind of game that specialises in the playstyle they want, rather than having a game that gives them a bit of what they want and a lot of what they dont care about.
If I want a compelling story, I will play TSW, SWTOR or FFXIV, If I want to be an insignifcant part of a world that exists in spite of me, I will play Eve or if I want to gank people I will go to games like CU. If they specialise in giving me the experience I want, I wont even mind keeping up 2 or 3 subs, because then I can hop into the game that gives me what I want for the day.
Rather than have my experience hamstrung because resources had to be poured into keeping multiple groups happy, I will be playing a game that focuses on content relevant to my tastes, and the people who want something else, will have a game that focuses on theirs.
So even though I wont play it, I hope CU knocks it out of the park for the sake of the people who will!
IMO, what made DAoC so much fun when it first released was the community working together fighting for the realm and helping each other. Later DAoC was taken over by the hardcore pvp crowd and most of the casual players left.
My hope for CU is that it will be a casual player friendly pvp game. Where players of different skill will all be able to contribute and have fun as a community. If all you care about is pvp all the time there are games out there like that already. League of Legends is very popular.
Sorry no this is a PVP game and it's been made clear that PVE will be a second tier activity No matter how much you craft or gather or kill mobs it will never advance you. PVP is the only road to leveling. Many of the supporters have no desire to coexist in the old pve/rvr model of DAOC and MF said that the tight budget would not allow for it anyway. As an old PVE DAOC player (mostly turned out as cannon fodder for relic raids and to do door repair on keep raids, ok ok and snipe a few carless casters with my ranger here and there). I'll have to take a pass on this one and hope that it does really really really well with the player base it is intended for and opens the door to more three sided rvr games that will be able to work in a more central PVE element in the future.
What kept people around was its vastly underrated PvE. It had great dungeons and overworld camps , good grouping and AI mechanics. The PvE was better than the PvP it offered IMO.. Pre Atlantis anyway.
I feel that this is another game that is missing its mark. It wasnt just PvP that made DAoC a memorable game but the combination of it all. DAoC peaked at 250kish players not because of PvP but because people could get some nice PvE experiences and then PvP if they wanted too.
BTW I will also point out that the PvE only server than DAoC released a long time ago quickly became the games most populated server. Not sure about now though.
IMO this will be the second game that teaches Ex Mythic Devs that only PvP just doesnt hold peoples attention ( Why not just be a MOBA ?? ). While ESO has full PvP campaigns ( 2-4 usually ) it doesnt hold a candle to what they originally thought would happen. The Imperial City DLC ( Darkness Falls of ESO ) while still used fizzled out just like DF did in DAoC. DF lasted a bit longer due to it being where all the new powerful particle effect proc gear was ( at that time only a few items had any particles or procs on them ) .. PvPers still used crafted for 99% + Quality though.
It is a PvP game, they said it more than once, PvE in CU will be "means to an end" type of activity; a secondary activity that helps some way to advance toward PvP, nothing more.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
It's not that hard to imagine that they will thrive in CU. Sure they might get ganked and re-think going to anticancer places alone but the sheer amount of things to collect, upgrade and show off will be in CU.
The hardcore PvE players might not like CU but that typically only makes up less than 5% of most games.
I healed Mistwraith and all I got was this stupid tee-shirt!
I will agree that the PvE was underrated, but by no means was it the draw to DAOC imo. RvR even from release was the supreme goal and nothing was more fun then running around in my low 20s as a SB one shotting someone while a grp of Albs tried to figure out what was going on. Had to love staying in stealth if you one shot someone.
If the game is primarily a pvp game and the world is just an place for pvp then no pve players will find it interesting.
If the game is based on a world that happens to have conflicts and pvp comes as a natural result of that AND with a broader pvp perspective than just slaughtering other players, then it might be possible that pve players can find a role to play. By broader pvp perspectives I mean support roles that indirectly affect the conflicts, such as crafting of weapons/gear/machinery/buildings or repair duties & defensive actions, and for the more outgoing pve'ers support roles such as healing, scouting, or active combat crafting/repairing/supply-lines (combat engineering kinds of stuff).
Yet, the simple notion of someone having fun that is not pvp, will make some pvp players rage and complain endlessly, and maybe a pvp game won't survive that ? shrug. For now I hold on to my opinion that pvp will ruin a pve game and the other way around, at least there are no examples of a good combination yet.. will CU do the impossible ?
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
I truly believe that the devs will use the pvp conflict to create social interaction, cooperation and community. If this game is just going to be another all out gank fest then I don't understand why this game is being made. There are plenty of games out there that focus on pvp already.
Add to this an exciting and profitable career in taking consumable goods out to the troops as a traveling merchant. There are many consumable goods that are planned for the game and those who are bold risk takers can make a mint in the game. As strange as it may sound, there will always be a combatant out there who has deep pockets and a perceived need for a sudden wardrobe change.
All I know is there is alot of PVE game elements I love to do that are only made better when performed in a PVP world.
Nanulak
I'm not always in the mood for PvP myself, but I was VERY fond of pre-TOA Dark Age of Camelot.
In reflection, when I was in the midst of my love affair with DAoC, my favorite activities were multi-boxing a cleric, theurgist, and necromancer, and farming Dartmoor for "shinies" to salvage, as well as waiting for Darkness Falls (DF) to be unlocked so I could either join Prince raids or farm higher level mobs in the lower tiers of the dungeon (in obscure locations) until I got ganked by another realm's raiding party or stealth class.
I would use the materials I farmed in DF to salvage and craft more gear, or stockpile for siege weapons and currency to help reinforce keeps.
In the end, everything I did and/or utilized was for the good of the Realm (and for my own personal enjoyment). I would often join realm raids, or help organize the occasional raid myself, usually with the intent of capturing DF, and raising my realm rank.
I lead my own guild, and was part of a formidable alliance, so there was always the obligation (and desire) to participate in some activity. DAoC was the pinnacle of MMORPGs that offered a purposeful RVR system that knew how to create a sense of community and give everyone that played it a means of being involved in that community. I haven't seen another game quite like it.
I think there are a lot of things about DAoC that I was hoping would carry over to Camelot Unchained, because DAoC had a very special blend of activities and environments that newer MMOs have not been able to recapture.
I would often roam into the RvR lands solo, sometimes as a stealth class, sometimes in my multi-box trio, and attempt to farm the NPC mobs for their rare drops, hoping no one from the other realms would swing on by to flatten me. I remember one particular dungeon where an amazing two-handed sword dropped that was black in color, but had white flaming particle effects, the name escapes me. I was able to get ONE to drop in my many attempts to farm that dungeon, and I never saw another.
I think part of what made that experience so exciting was the fact that another player-character rival could attack me, and it added to the sense of danger, but that wasn't something I ALWAYS wanted in that game.
I DID enjoy the starter lands and the class quests for class-specific gear. I enjoyed being able to relax and farm PvE zones when my friends weren't online, and I liked knowing who I was fighting side-by-side with when I DID join RVR raids. Strangers with social issues and a self-centered attitude could quickly ruin the experience much like they do in PVP-centric games today.
DAoC's strength was that EVERYONE in a particular realm benefitted from participating in Realm Raids, and controlling relics to strengthen the realm kept everyone interested and inspired. That leant itself to the sense of community that made DAoC such an amazing experience.
If CU manages to recapture these elements, then I'd definitely pick it up, but if it's just looking to be another game that allows the lowest common denominator to join in for "gankfests" in a wholly unprotected realm without a starter area, then no thanks. I enjoy a sense of survival and all, but if it's a complex game, then people that step into the game later in its lifecycle should be given a chance to catch up without being "griefed", otherwise what's the point of joining?
If a game were full PVE, but it had NPC assassins and stuff that attacked players out in the world randomly: would PVE'ers be more accepting of the PVP style of gameplay simply because the "PVP'ers" were A.I.?
To the question above. I think it would help a bit for me personally. But I can't speak for others that don't really care for PvP all the time. I accept the PvP play style I just don't understand how people always want the stress of PvP every time they log on.
Edit number 10: If anyone does find a good intense challenging PvE game (that requires tactics) let me know. The most fun I've found in solo PvE challenge would be attempting dungeon runs in EQ solo.
However, I do want a variety of interesting and fun activities to choose from instead of a game that is only pvp. Also, I hope that the game encourages grouping and working together. I hope that there are good reasons to join guilds and alliances and for these organizations to have reasons to want more members.
If you understood/knew Tierless (AKA Timothy Eisenzimmer) a little better, this article would make perfect sense. He is a stealther at heart and wishes to have lots and lots of pray to choose from. ;P