I have not picked up any more new games. I cannot handle twitch combat so I decided to either play older games or just leave the genre. No real choice right now if I want to play anything everything is too action based. I can manage it okay but I get very tired and it is not much fun when I cannot really do well at it. I used to be a very good player. Even the last MMORPG I played before going to EQ 2 that is FFXIV as a healer I would often receive compliments on my skill in dungeons.
There is no point for me to play when I can no longer be happy and satisfied with my performance. When I played Wild* I was so poor at it in a group and I was just playing terribly while trying to heal and dodge the area effects it made me very miserable. I then thought to myself 'what is the use of playing when I feel I am doing so poorly while trying so hard'. At that point coupled with the joint aches I got from trying to jam the controls on my mouse and mouse turn I finally came to the realisation the genre has moved past me and left me behind. No point in trying as I can never be satisfied with my current level of performance.
Same thing with ESO although I was doing okay and even in dungeons I was fine with my healing and dodging it was never top performance and without having pride in my performance why would I continue to beat my head against the wall. I am just not good enough period.
If indeed the MMORPGS have marched past me and are now for people with better reflexes I will have to just watch and read and enjoy the games vicariously I guess through youtube and these boards. I have been playing since April of 1999 when I first opened my eyes in Surefell Glade. It has been a good run and I love this genre.
I have not picked up any more new games. I cannot handle twitch combat so I decided to either play older games or just leave the genre. No real choice right now if I want to play anything everything is too action based. I can manage it okay but I get very tired and it is not much fun when I cannot really do well at it. I used to be a very good player. Even the last MMORPG I played before going to EQ 2 that is FFXIV as a healer I would often receive compliments on my skill in dungeons.
There is no point for me to play when I can no longer be happy and satisfied with my performance. When I played Wild* I was so poor at it in a group and I was just playing terribly while trying to heal and dodge the area effects it made me very miserable. I then thought to myself 'what is the use of playing when I feel I am doing so poorly while trying so hard'. At that point coupled with the joint aches I got from trying to jam the controls on my mouse and mouse turn I finally came to the realisation the genre has moved past me and left me behind. No point in trying as I can never be satisfied with my current level of performance.
Same thing with ESO although I was doing okay and even in dungeons I was fine with my healing and dodging it was never top performance and without having pride in my performance why would I continue to beat my head against the wall. I am just not good enough period.
If indeed the MMORPGS have marched past me and are now for people with better reflexes I will have to just watch and read and enjoy the games vicariously I guess through youtube and these boards. I have been playing since April of 1999 when I first opened my eyes in Surefell Glade. It has been a good run and I love this genre.
I wouldn't give up hope, tab targetting is pretty much here to stay, its an evolved gaming mechanic, the most popular games have it for a reason, thats not to say that action type combat games don't have their place, they do, but its a fairly niche type of gameplay. Also, your not an isolated case, you also pretty much identified one of Wildstars biggest problems, and the flaws that often dominate action combat games.
People are not hopping from game to game due to the action combat, it's the rest of the game that is not pleasing to them. We first need a decent action combat mmo to be able to verify if people will stay or jump on the next game.
Blade & Soul is one of them but the rest of the game is surely average. When we get games with combat like mount & blade, dark souls etc we can talk.
Tab target mmos won't die, but it will probably be hybrid like Gw 2 from now on. Newer generations prefer action combat and there's nothing bad about that. I prefer action combat too. I want to be fully involved while fighting, not pressing skills and dodging red circles on the ground. That doesn't mean tab targeting combat is bad, it's just in my opinion a good action combat game can make the fights more engaging.
People are not hopping from game to game due to the action combat, it's the rest of the game that is not pleasing to them. We first need a decent action combat mmo to be able to verify if people will stay or jump on the next game.
Blade & Soul is one of them but the rest of the game is surely average. When we get games with combat like mount & blade, dark souls etc we can talk.
Tab target mmos won't die, but it will probably be hybrid like Gw 2 from now on. Newer generations prefer action combat and there's nothing bad about that. I prefer action combat too. I want to be fully involved while fighting, not pressing skills and dodging red circles on the ground. That doesn't mean tab targeting combat is bad, it's just in my opinion a good action combat game can make the fights more engaging.
People are not hopping from game to game due to the action combat, it's the rest of the game that is not pleasing to them. We first need a decent action combat mmo to be able to verify if people will stay or jump on the next game.
Blade & Soul is one of them but the rest of the game is surely average. When we get games with combat like mount & blade, dark souls etc we can talk.
Tab target mmos won't die, but it will probably be hybrid like Gw 2 from now on. Newer generations prefer action combat and there's nothing bad about that. I prefer action combat too. I want to be fully involved while fighting, not pressing skills and dodging red circles on the ground. That doesn't mean tab targeting combat is bad, it's just in my opinion a good action combat game can make the fights more engaging.
Mount and Blade Online...... well we can dream.
There's Gloria Victis and Life is Feudal that are trying that, but they have still much to do to complete it.
Gloria Victis has already directional combat but no directional blocking (Yet). It's still early access and the game is quite laggy but I gave them my support in trying a good and detailed combat which other companies dread to attempt.
It might fail, but if they keep the combat as is, it's already fine by me. I'd rather have directional combat than combat which is always the same. Even if they don't implement directional blocking, there's dodging, kicks and stamina. If they manage to make the combat good, they could make it so if you stand in a tunnel only thrusts and/or overheads will hit but I'm probably just hoping too much.
People think action combat is like devil may cry. In reality, the best action combat games are those that let you react to certain situations and only 1 mmo has done it yet that I know of (Blade & Soul).
With action combat, short fights and more swarms, selecting targets manually are not so effective. That is the reason targeting is not used in some games with action combat. For games with longer and more tactical fights (for examle where cc, debuffing, etc matters), targeting is still the best solution.
There has been a batch of action combat games lately, and also mostly eastern ones, so that explains it. Also many games that are multi platform (pc&console), and it is pretty simple, consoles players want action not tactical combat, so that choice dictates the game.
I have not picked up any more new games. I cannot handle twitch combat so I decided to either play older games or just leave the genre. No real choice right now if I want to play anything everything is too action based. I can manage it okay but I get very tired and it is not much fun when I cannot really do well at it. I used to be a very good player. Even the last MMORPG I played before going to EQ 2 that is FFXIV as a healer I would often receive compliments on my skill in dungeons.
There is no point for me to play when I can no longer be happy and satisfied with my performance. When I played Wild* I was so poor at it in a group and I was just playing terribly while trying to heal and dodge the area effects it made me very miserable. I then thought to myself 'what is the use of playing when I feel I am doing so poorly while trying so hard'. At that point coupled with the joint aches I got from trying to jam the controls on my mouse and mouse turn I finally came to the realisation the genre has moved past me and left me behind. No point in trying as I can never be satisfied with my current level of performance.
Same thing with ESO although I was doing okay and even in dungeons I was fine with my healing and dodging it was never top performance and without having pride in my performance why would I continue to beat my head against the wall. I am just not good enough period.
If indeed the MMORPGS have marched past me and are now for people with better reflexes I will have to just watch and read and enjoy the games vicariously I guess through youtube and these boards. I have been playing since April of 1999 when I first opened my eyes in Surefell Glade. It has been a good run and I love this genre.
I hear you.
Ive been playing mmorpgs since Meridian and have alot of experiance.
Im also a PvPer and have always been one of the highest ranking PvPers. But in newer action combat mmorpgs PvP is mostly about spamming AoEs and dodging/strafing around your enemy so he gets LoS problems. Me as a player that are used to rotations and using my skills as counters rather than twitching around like a monkey just finds action combat PvP very dull. Its also one of the reasons i left Guild Wars 2, when a whole combat system is based on dodging 50% of a fight, something is very wrong.
I would love to see some new tab target mmorpgs, but i think we are facing a drought in AAA mmorpgs for the foreseable future, be it action combat or tab target. Its just to big of an investment and extremly high risk, players gets bored after 3 months and leave. Only Rift, GW2, SW and FFXIV have done "ok" and thats just barely.
kjempff said: There has been a batch of action combat games lately, and also mostly eastern ones, so that explains it. Also many games that are multi platform (pc&console), and it is pretty simple, consoles players want action not tactical combat, so that choice dictates the game.
One of the reasons why we see the butchering of old classic turnbased jrpgs on cosoles into boring action combat..
People are not hopping from game to game due to the action combat, it's the rest of the game that is not pleasing to them. We first need a decent action combat mmo to be able to verify if people will stay or jump on the next game.
Blade & Soul is one of them but the rest of the game is surely average. When we get games with combat like mount & blade, dark souls etc we can talk.
Tab target mmos won't die, but it will probably be hybrid like Gw 2 from now on. Newer generations prefer action combat and there's nothing bad about that. I prefer action combat too. I want to be fully involved while fighting, not pressing skills and dodging red circles on the ground. That doesn't mean tab targeting combat is bad, it's just in my opinion a good action combat game can make the fights more engaging.
Mount and Blade Online...... well we can dream.
They have online pvp modes with over 60vs60 battles. I too thought this would explode with popularity but it didn't. I'll never know why either.
Is the days of tab targeting mmos over? I personally love that style of mmo and am hoping the next major mmo has that feature. Is this a possible feature for future games, or have we just moved past it?
Tab target mmos won't die, but it will probably be hybrid like Gw 2 from now on. Newer generations prefer action combat and there's nothing bad about that. I prefer action combat too. I want to be fully involved while fighting, not pressing skills and dodging red circles on the ground. That doesn't mean tab targeting combat is bad, it's just in my opinion a good action combat game can make the fights more engaging.
Bolded bit.....
Pressing skills and dodging shit is exactly what you do in both action combat and traditional combat. Its just action involves far fewer skills, so is much easier (intellectually), and you have to move around a lot more, requiring greater reflexes.
I'll always prefer traditional for those reasons - I prefer combat to challenge my intellect, rather than my hands.
The only caveat I'll put on that is that, eventually, someone will build a virtual reality system that will actually be able to translate my movements into ingame actions. At that point, I'll switch to that as my preferred combat mode! Action combat games have always annoyed me as they just can't represent what I want the character to do. Being stuck to just a few abilities and some movement is too limiting, too boring for me.
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The fact there isn't a new tab target game every other week, like action MMO, shows an issue with action MMO rather than with tab target.
Action MMO have issues with player retention. WoW, EQ, FFXIV, don't.
I've been playing an "action MMO" game, singular, since June 2nd, 2003.
/shrug
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Is the days of tab targeting mmos over? I personally love that style of mmo and am hoping the next major mmo has that feature. Is this a possible feature for future games, or have we just moved past it?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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its not dead, its just companies like to follow trends.
First everyone was doing wow-like mmos. Then everyone doing mobas. Now everyone is doing action combat.
Trends come and go.
Maybe stick to trends of MMORPG developers. Saying "everyone" did MOBAs makes it sound like you believe those were all MMORPG developers switching to follow a trend.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Tab targeting works better in an mmo where the combat is slow paced almost round by round or takes a long time for abilities to land after activating them. These are the more "Strategy" type of MMO fighting mechanics.
When you get into the high speed action oriented combat like say in Black Desert, tab targeting gets in the way and takes away from the gameplay. A fast paced combat game needs to have "targeting" by the player as part of the entire mechanic just like there is no tab targeting in a FPS game
Its not that the Tab targeting mechanic has died, it's that high speed action combat in MMO games is the new rage of 2016
For melee combat it is certainly close to dying at least and it isn't such a bad thing either, you have a sword and there really isn't any good reason to scroll through your opponents.... Just swing in the right direction and you are fine.
Ranged combat is a different matter, AoE attacks can be painted out with a marker but actually aiming with weapons like bows and magic missiles is a big disadvantage in fantasy games. You can balance it with huge damage but that really makes little sense, why would a shortbow do 5 times the damages that a 2 handed sword does?
Anything relatively modern can use FPS styled aiming with little problems (from musketeers and pirates to sci-fi) but it does come with a price, a game like that is a very different experience from classic MMOs.
You could also use some kind of auto aiming meaning you hit the closest enemy to your bullseye and I feel that might be the easiest way for fantasy and low tech MMOs but so far can't I think of a MMO using that kind of mechanics.
Tab targeting will eventually go away but at the moment there isn't good enough replacement for MMORPGs. There is for MMOFPS games but it is another genre.
I think tab targeting was a little backwards a method used to overcome the bandwidth limitations from the late '90s. People just got used to it. I won't miss it. Even in games that were designed around it. Also there are some mmo devs who moved onto MOBAs. Hakkyu Kim for example is working on Wolf knights which is pretty much a moba.
its not dead, its just companies like to follow trends.
First everyone was doing wow-like mmos. Then everyone doing mobas. Now everyone is doing action combat.
Trends come and go.
Maybe stick to trends of MMORPG developers. Saying "everyone" did MOBAs makes it sound like you believe those were all MMORPG developers switching to follow a trend.
Yeah...because Perfect World, Trion, Hi-Rez, Aeria, NC Soft, etc totes aren't on the bandwagon.
Oh wait, they are...
Reality is they are developers/publishers. They follow where the trends sell more often than a finite genre. You get some exceptions like SoE/Daybreak, but even studios like Mythic have a varied portfolio of games in spite of most only thinking of DAoC.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Comments
There is no point for me to play when I can no longer be happy and satisfied with my performance. When I played Wild* I was so poor at it in a group and I was just playing terribly while trying to heal and dodge the area effects it made me very miserable. I then thought to myself 'what is the use of playing when I feel I am doing so poorly while trying so hard'. At that point coupled with the joint aches I got from trying to jam the controls on my mouse and mouse turn I finally came to the realisation the genre has moved past me and left me behind. No point in trying as I can never be satisfied with my current level of performance.
Same thing with ESO although I was doing okay and even in dungeons I was fine with my healing and dodging it was never top performance and without having pride in my performance why would I continue to beat my head against the wall. I am just not good enough period.
If indeed the MMORPGS have marched past me and are now for people with better reflexes I will have to just watch and read and enjoy the games vicariously I guess through youtube and these boards. I have been playing since April of 1999 when I first opened my eyes in Surefell Glade. It has been a good run and I love this genre.
Also, your not an isolated case, you also pretty much identified one of Wildstars biggest problems, and the flaws that often dominate action combat games.
Blade & Soul is one of them but the rest of the game is surely average. When we get games with combat like mount & blade, dark souls etc we can talk.
Tab target mmos won't die, but it will probably be hybrid like Gw 2 from now on. Newer generations prefer action combat and there's nothing bad about that. I prefer action combat too. I want to be fully involved while fighting, not pressing skills and dodging red circles on the ground. That doesn't mean tab targeting combat is bad, it's just in my opinion a good action combat game can make the fights more engaging.
Gloria Victis has already directional combat but no directional blocking (Yet). It's still early access and the game is quite laggy but I gave them my support in trying a good and detailed combat which other companies dread to attempt.
It might fail, but if they keep the combat as is, it's already fine by me. I'd rather have directional combat than combat which is always the same. Even if they don't implement directional blocking, there's dodging, kicks and stamina. If they manage to make the combat good, they could make it so if you stand in a tunnel only thrusts and/or overheads will hit but I'm probably just hoping too much.
People think action combat is like devil may cry. In reality, the best action combat games are those that let you react to certain situations and only 1 mmo has done it yet that I know of (Blade & Soul).
There has been a batch of action combat games lately, and also mostly eastern ones, so that explains it. Also many games that are multi platform (pc&console), and it is pretty simple, consoles players want action not tactical combat, so that choice dictates the game.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
I hear you.
Ive been playing mmorpgs since Meridian and have alot of experiance.
Im also a PvPer and have always been one of the highest ranking PvPers. But in newer action combat mmorpgs PvP is mostly about spamming AoEs and dodging/strafing around your enemy so he gets LoS problems. Me as a player that are used to rotations and using my skills as counters rather than twitching around like a monkey just finds action combat PvP very dull. Its also one of the reasons i left Guild Wars 2, when a whole combat system is based on dodging 50% of a fight, something is very wrong.
I would love to see some new tab target mmorpgs, but i think we are facing a drought in AAA mmorpgs for the foreseable future, be it action combat or tab target. Its just to big of an investment and extremly high risk, players gets bored after 3 months and leave.
Only Rift, GW2, SW and FFXIV have done "ok" and thats just barely.
It was really amazing and full on suspense (Battle Mode) when dying meant you had to wait until end of round to play again.
Pressing skills and dodging shit is exactly what you do in both action combat and traditional combat. Its just action involves far fewer skills, so is much easier (intellectually), and you have to move around a lot more, requiring greater reflexes.
I'll always prefer traditional for those reasons - I prefer combat to challenge my intellect, rather than my hands.
The only caveat I'll put on that is that, eventually, someone will build a virtual reality system that will actually be able to translate my movements into ingame actions. At that point, I'll switch to that as my preferred combat mode! Action combat games have always annoyed me as they just can't represent what I want the character to do. Being stuck to just a few abilities and some movement is too limiting, too boring for me.
/shrug
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
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Tab targeting works better in an mmo where the combat is slow paced almost round by round or takes a long time for abilities to land after activating them. These are the more "Strategy" type of MMO fighting mechanics.
When you get into the high speed action oriented combat like say in Black Desert, tab targeting gets in the way and takes away from the gameplay. A fast paced combat game needs to have "targeting" by the player as part of the entire mechanic just like there is no tab targeting in a FPS game
Its not that the Tab targeting mechanic has died, it's that high speed action combat in MMO games is the new rage of 2016
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Ranged combat is a different matter, AoE attacks can be painted out with a marker but actually aiming with weapons like bows and magic missiles is a big disadvantage in fantasy games. You can balance it with huge damage but that really makes little sense, why would a shortbow do 5 times the damages that a 2 handed sword does?
Anything relatively modern can use FPS styled aiming with little problems (from musketeers and pirates to sci-fi) but it does come with a price, a game like that is a very different experience from classic MMOs.
You could also use some kind of auto aiming meaning you hit the closest enemy to your bullseye and I feel that might be the easiest way for fantasy and low tech MMOs but so far can't I think of a MMO using that kind of mechanics.
Tab targeting will eventually go away but at the moment there isn't good enough replacement for MMORPGs. There is for MMOFPS games but it is another genre.
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I won't miss it. Even in games that were designed around it.
Also there are some mmo devs who moved onto MOBAs. Hakkyu Kim for example is working on Wolf knights which is pretty much a moba.
Oh wait, they are...
Reality is they are developers/publishers. They follow where the trends sell more often than a finite genre. You get some exceptions like SoE/Daybreak, but even studios like Mythic have a varied portfolio of games in spite of most only thinking of DAoC.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin