Rob Irving (Former Lead Designer of Star Citizen) interview - admits Escapists article is true

Pratt2112 · March 2016

DKLond said:

I'm afraid you don't convince in terms of changing reality according to your biased misconception.

I think he comes off as an extremely laid-back guy, if that sounds better. I've seen all of the Wingman's Hangar episodes, and I always greatly enjoyed his interviews. He looked half asleep - but always had something entertaining or insightful to say. ALWAYS laid-back.

Kind of a slacker, really.

I quite like him, based on what I've seen.

If that's passive aggressive, so be it. I don't really care.

I don't convince in terms of changing any reality... lol... okay?

Who's trying to change reality here?
Reality is:
I'm referring to your own, direct statements in your first post of this thread.
You, on the other hand, have been spinning like a top, trying to do damage control on them in almost every post since.

There was clear condescension and dismissal in your original statements. Several people caught and called you out on it. You immediately went into spin mode but, sadly, need a better PR dept (in a manner of speaking).

Stating, or even implying that "someone just wants to slack off" is not a compliment to begin with, especially when that person has a history of working on pretty huge projects, which certainly did not allow "slacking off" to complete.

Further referring to them as "wanting to slack off on a smaller project" is both a jab at them, and at the project they are now working on. In other words, "they could just slack off and still perform on their new project".

In summary: There is nothing positive about referring to someone as a slacker, or as wanting to "slack off". I'm sure you were fully aware of this when you typed up your original post.

Trying to say "well that's just the impression I got from him!", does not fly. It's you attempting to grasp anything to hang your statements on, so they sound more "good-natured", and less like the passive-aggressive jab they actually were.

Your spin and condescension is dripping from each post you make. I get it. You feel you're doing a great job of covering it up, but... no. You're only make it more obvious with each post. You just aren't that clever.

You said what you said. Period. All the spin, back pedaling, and well poisoning is not going to change that.

Not that you'll stop trying anyway...

Distopia · March 2016

Coincidently enough on the front page of Gamespot there's an article stating SC hit a new funding level of 110 mil. That says all I need to know about the effect that article has had since release. Surely didn't deter people from spending money.

DKLond · March 2016

@Pratt

If it wasn't already clear, I don't really care about your misinterpretation of what I said.

Personally, I don't view it as a personal attack or a passive aggressive statement. I'd have to feel aggression to make that kind of statement in the first place.

Irving is not the kind of guy that makes me feel aggressive. Quite the opposite, actually.

It wasn't intended as a compliment either. I spoke my mind about my impression - and that's all there is to it.

Essentially, your delusion is not going to be my reality - as you fail utterly to convince

Not that you'll stop trying anyway...

DKLond · March 2016

Distopia said:

Coincidently enough on the front page of Gamespot there's an article stating SC hit a new funding level of 110 mil. That says all I need to know about the effect that article has had since release. Surely didn't deter people from spending money.

There's no way to conclude that rationally.

For all we know, a lot of people who'd otherwise have supported it chose not to.

That said, it could also have generated so much interest that a lot of people who'd never heard about it, heard about it and decided to support it.

Essentially, we have no way of knowing.

But I don't think we can deny that the article inspired a lot of emotion in a lot of people.

Deathenger · March 2016

FlyByKnight said:

"There's some truth to the article"

"So you're saying there's a chance it's ALL a lie!" - SC Cult

Man that is soooo perfect!

Adjuvant1 · March 2016

DKLond said:

Distopia said:

Coincidently enough on the front page of Gamespot there's an article stating SC hit a new funding level of 110 mil. That says all I need to know about the effect that article has had since release. Surely didn't deter people from spending money.

There's no way to conclude that rationally.

For all we know, a lot of people who'd otherwise have supported it chose not to.

That said, it could also have generated so much interest that a lot of people who'd never heard about it, heard about it and decided to support it.

Essentially, we have no way of knowing.

But I don't think we can deny that the article inspired a lot of emotion in a lot of people.

We have no way of knowing anything about that number. We don't know the source of income, if it's customers, subscription income, bank interest or dividend, swedish or german money laundering... ( shrug? )

We have no way of knowing if it reflects refunds, chargebacks, corporate incentives, foreign investment incentives, hell, man, we don't know what that number is at all.

Adjuvant1 · March 2016

Oh, and if that does not include some manner of interest or investment income ( just in case there is some 50m to 70m laying around ) who the hell gets that income? You have a calculator handy?

edit: ok, maybe it's more like 30m to 40m, but still...

Distopia · March 2016

DKLond said:

Distopia said:

Coincidently enough on the front page of Gamespot there's an article stating SC hit a new funding level of 110 mil. That says all I need to know about the effect that article has had since release. Surely didn't deter people from spending money.

There's no way to conclude that rationally.

For all we know, a lot of people who'd otherwise have supported it chose not to.

That said, it could also have generated so much interest that a lot of people who'd never heard about it, heard about it and decided to support it.

Essentially, we have no way of knowing.

But I don't think we can deny that the article inspired a lot of emotion in a lot of people.

Maybe so, I just don't see who needs to worry about an escapist article if after all is said and done this is the story such outlets are picking up and carrying ..who needs a lawsuit when they can use another outlet to flaunt 100 mil and a claim to a bigger budget than The Witcher 3. It's all a game of perception as far as media and marketing goes..

SEANMCAD · March 2016

JohnP0100 said:

An interview with former Lead Designer of SC Rob Irving is up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PLwo3YCY_8&ab_channel=MattBarton

A lot of 'reading between the lines' can be done, like
"Chris and I have never been close friends. We worked together a couple of times. He knows who I am".
"He (Chris) is probably going to go bigger than he should."

But the biggest news will be that he admits the Escapists article is true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PLwo3YCY_8#t=232s
Rob: Rumors like that don't just spring up out of nowhere, that's the thing. There is, there is certainly some truth to the article.

Another interesting note is the talk of 'feature creep' and the lack of the producers ability to say 'No' to a wish that someone came up with. He doesn't say the name but it is obviously referencing the '10FTC' segments that has "Procedural birds". Yes.. Procedural Birds!!

While the headline of the thread is around the 'Escapists' article, there are much more here and it will be interesting to see if this is the first person to speak up under their real identity about Star Citizen or the last.

To anyone doubting his CV, he was involved in Wing Commander 3/4/Prophecy.
Part of the 'old guard' with ChrisR and EricR.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12905-Meet-Rob-Irving

yeah nothing in your post comes remotely close to anything related to unfair HR practices.

moving on

DKLond · March 2016

Distopia said:

DKLond said:

Distopia said:

Coincidently enough on the front page of Gamespot there's an article stating SC hit a new funding level of 110 mil. That says all I need to know about the effect that article has had since release. Surely didn't deter people from spending money.

There's no way to conclude that rationally.

For all we know, a lot of people who'd otherwise have supported it chose not to.

That said, it could also have generated so much interest that a lot of people who'd never heard about it, heard about it and decided to support it.

Essentially, we have no way of knowing.

But I don't think we can deny that the article inspired a lot of emotion in a lot of people.

Maybe so, I just don't see who needs to worry about an escapist article when they can use another outlet to flaunt 100 mil and a claim to a bigger budget than The Witcher 3. After all is said and done and in the end this is the story such outlets are picking up and carrying

I don't know.

You wouldn't react if someone wrote a supposedly "documented" article about you - stating plainly that you're racist and horrible to work with?

It's one thing what Derek failed-in-life-so-I-have-to-take-it-out-on-others Smart says, but a relatively established source like Escapist is something else.

Note that I'm not saying Escapist is worth paying attention to, as I think they're laughably irrelevant - but I also realise that many people have no way of knowing that - and a lot of people don't care about Star Citizen enough to bother doing any real research.

Problem is that such things tend to spread and it could develop into a problem, no matter how much money it generates as a side effect.

Distopia · March 2016

DKLond said:

Distopia said:

Maybe so, I just don't see who needs to worry about an escapist article when they can use another outlet to flaunt 100 mil and a claim to a bigger budget than The Witcher 3. After all is said and done and in the end this is the story such outlets are picking up and carrying

I don't know.

You wouldn't react if someone wrote a supposedly "documented" article about you - stating plainly that you're racist and horrible to work with?

It's one thing what Derek failed-in-life-so-I-have-to-take-it-out-on-others Smart says, but a relatively established source like Escapist is something else.

Define react? Me? I'm a little guy, my reaction would be verbal and local... You missed my edit where I added in the end it's really about perception. That's pertinent to this question.. If one outlet says something as negative as TE did, yet the majority of outlets are posting positive things even after such an incident, which is the wider spread perception? That wider positive spread of information could be a reaction in and of itself. In the end it's where the story ends up that matters most. Which angle has the greater traction as well as circulation to be more precise.

SEANMCAD · March 2016

what the F does feature creep have to do with bad HR practices?

Like you need a confirmed article to tell you SC had feature creep. Really?

DKLond · March 2016

Distopia said:

DKLond said:

Distopia said:

Maybe so, I just don't see who needs to worry about an escapist article when they can use another outlet to flaunt 100 mil and a claim to a bigger budget than The Witcher 3. After all is said and done and in the end this is the story such outlets are picking up and carrying

I don't know.

You wouldn't react if someone wrote a supposedly "documented" article about you - stating plainly that you're racist and horrible to work with?

It's one thing what Derek failed-in-life-so-I-have-to-take-it-out-on-others Smart says, but a relatively established source like Escapist is something else.

Define react? Me? I'm a little guy, my reaction would be verbal and local... You missed my edit where I added in the end it's really about perception. That's pertinent to this question.. If one outlet says something as negative as TE did, yet the majority of outlets are posting positive things even after such an incident, which is the wider spread perception? That wider positive spread of information could be a reaction in and of itself.

I don't know what the total perception is about Star Citizen. That's essentially unknowable. I do know that several articles have been very critical and sceptical about SC and in particular "feature bloat" - so I don't think it's the case of TE being negative and all others being positive.

We should also remember that the current perception is surely colored by both the article in question AS WELL as the official response from CR and RSI.

So, the fact that they DID worry and DID react could be a factor in a supposedly positive perception.

Personally, I think the smart move is to let Star Citizen speak for itself. But that's only when the perception is about the game and the project itself.

Once people start accusing RSI of supporting blatant racism and overt fraud - then I think it's very dangerous to stay silent.

But that's me.

WIth that said, I personally think the 2.1+ Alpha is the most effective "argument" in support of Star Citizen so far.

Not that it will convince those who're intent on not being convinced. But if you know anything about the complexity and scale involved - anyone who's open-minded should, at the very least, accept that SOME work has been done and that it's not insignificant.

SEANMCAD · March 2016

DKLond said:

Distopia said:

DKLond said:

Distopia said:

Maybe so, I just don't see who needs to worry about an escapist article when they can use another outlet to flaunt 100 mil and a claim to a bigger budget than The Witcher 3. After all is said and done and in the end this is the story such outlets are picking up and carrying

I don't know.

You wouldn't react if someone wrote a supposedly "documented" article about you - stating plainly that you're racist and horrible to work with?

It's one thing what Derek failed-in-life-so-I-have-to-take-it-out-on-others Smart says, but a relatively established source like Escapist is something else.

Define react? Me? I'm a little guy, my reaction would be verbal and local... You missed my edit where I added in the end it's really about perception. That's pertinent to this question.. If one outlet says something as negative as TE did, yet the majority of outlets are posting positive things even after such an incident, which is the wider spread perception? That wider positive spread of information could be a reaction in and of itself.

I don't know what the total perception is about Star Citizen. That's essentially unknowable. I do know that several articles have been very critical and sceptical about SC and in particular "feature bloat" - so I don't think it's the case of TE being negative and all others being positive.

We should also remember that the current perception is surely colored by both the article in question AS WELL as the official response from CR and RSI.

So, the fact that they DID worry and DID react could be a factor in a supposedly positive perception.

Personally, I think the smart move is to let Star Citizen speak for itself. But that's only when the perception is about the game and the project itself.

Once people start accusing RSI of supporting blatant racism and overt fraud - then I think it's very dangerous to stay silent.

But that's me.

WIth that said, I personally think the 2.1+ Alpha is the most effective "argument" in support of Star Citizen so far.

Not that it will convince those who're intent on not being convinced. But if you know anything about the complexity and scale involved - anyone who's open-minded should, at the very least, accept that SOME work has been done and that it's not insignificant.

racism isnt addressed in the video or the post, its all about feature creep which to be frank one has to have the IQ of a flea to not know there is feature creep and you hardly need an article to help you figure that out.

Adjuvant1 · March 2016

DKLond said:

WIth that said, I personally think the 2.1+ Alpha is the most effective "argument" in support of Star Citizen so far.

Not that it will convince those who're intent on not being convinced. But if you know anything about the complexity and scale involved - anyone who's open-minded should, at the very least, accept that SOME work has been done and that it's not insignificant.

I guess it falls on an anticipation of "how much more fits in that box" and "how much more can reasonably be expected to transact through that netcode". You think the answer to both is "alot", cool, let's see.

Distopia · March 2016

DKLond said:

Distopia said:

DKLond said:

Distopia said:

Maybe so, I just don't see who needs to worry about an escapist article when they can use another outlet to flaunt 100 mil and a claim to a bigger budget than The Witcher 3. After all is said and done and in the end this is the story such outlets are picking up and carrying

I don't know.

You wouldn't react if someone wrote a supposedly "documented" article about you - stating plainly that you're racist and horrible to work with?

It's one thing what Derek failed-in-life-so-I-have-to-take-it-out-on-others Smart says, but a relatively established source like Escapist is something else.

Define react? Me? I'm a little guy, my reaction would be verbal and local... You missed my edit where I added in the end it's really about perception. That's pertinent to this question.. If one outlet says something as negative as TE did, yet the majority of outlets are posting positive things even after such an incident, which is the wider spread perception? That wider positive spread of information could be a reaction in and of itself.

I don't know what the total perception is about Star Citizen. That's essentially unknowable. I do know that several articles have been very critical and sceptical about SC and in particular "feature bloat" - so I don't think it's the case of TE being negative and all others being positive.

We should also remember that the current perception is surely colored by both the article in question AS WELL as the official response from CR and RSI.

So, the fact that they DID worry and DID react could be a factor in a supposedly positive perception.

Personally, I think the smart move is to let Star Citizen speak for itself. But that's only when the perception is about the game and the project itself.

Once people start accusing RSI of supporting blatant racism and overt fraud - then I think it's very dangerous to stay silent.

But that's me.

WIth that said, I personally think the 2.1+ Alpha is the most effective "argument" in support of Star Citizen so far.

Not that it will convince those who're intent on not being convinced. But if you know anything about the complexity and scale involved - anyone who's open-minded should, at the very least, accept that SOME work has been done and that it's not insignificant.

Ha. we keep seeming to be 1 edit behind each other. Like I said in my edit it's a matter of where the story ends up as well as which angle has the most coverage that will have the biggest effect on overall perception.

Anyway I agree with most of what you said here. In the end, the end results (hopefully for the backers; the game) will say all that needed to be said.

DKLond · March 2016

Adjuvant1 said:

DKLond said:

WIth that said, I personally think the 2.1+ Alpha is the most effective "argument" in support of Star Citizen so far.

Not that it will convince those who're intent on not being convinced. But if you know anything about the complexity and scale involved - anyone who's open-minded should, at the very least, accept that SOME work has been done and that it's not insignificant.

I guess it falls on an anticipation of "how much more fits in that box" and "how much more can reasonably be expected to transact through that netcode". You think the answer to both is "alot", cool, let's see.

Let's try not putting words in mouths that don't belong to ourselves.

What I'm saying is that there's hope for Star Citizen and I believe something great can come of it.

What I'm not saying is that there's this magical guarentee that the game will be the second coming or that it won't be both flawed and delayed.

Personally, I think the vision is both bold and uncertain. But I admire what they're trying to do - and I greatly admire them for going "all in" - instead of making a 12 million dollar game with a 110 million dollar budget.

Let's not forget that RSI had a poll specifically asking people how funding should proceed and that the VAST majority were in favor of the current method of funding.

That's the vast majority of the supporters actively paying for the game, rather than all the detractors. RSI should not listen?

Adjuvant1 · March 2016

DKLond said:

Adjuvant1 said:

DKLond said:

WIth that said, I personally think the 2.1+ Alpha is the most effective "argument" in support of Star Citizen so far.

Not that it will convince those who're intent on not being convinced. But if you know anything about the complexity and scale involved - anyone who's open-minded should, at the very least, accept that SOME work has been done and that it's not insignificant.

I guess it falls on an anticipation of "how much more fits in that box" and "how much more can reasonably be expected to transact through that netcode". You think the answer to both is "alot", cool, let's see.

Let's try not putting words in mouths that don't belong to ourselves.

What I'm saying is that there's hope for Star Citizen and I believe something great can come of it.

What I'm not saying is that there's this magical guarentee that the game will be the second coming or that it won't be both flawed and delayed.

Personally, I think the vision is both bold and uncertain. But I admire what they're trying to do - and I greatly admire them for going "all in" - instead of making a 12 million dollar game with a 110 million dollar budget.

Let's not forget that RSI had a poll specifically asking people how funding should proceed and that the VAST majority were in favor of the current method of funding.

That's the vast majority of the supporters actively paying for the game, rather than all the detractors. RSI should not listen?

I don't know what that means as an answer. It sounds like a commercial for a political candidate.

Roin · March 2016

Good drama thread, but still haven't seen anyone answer that all important question yet. You want people like me who support SC to concede that something is wrong with the project. Well I'm going to need some proof, not conjecture. If Mr. Irving is willing to elaborate on what is 'true'. I'd be more then happy to listen. Without that though this thread is pretty pointless. Very entertaining though.

Shodanas · March 2016

Adjuvant1 said:

DKLond said:

Adjuvant1 said:

DKLond said:

WIth that said, I personally think the 2.1+ Alpha is the most effective "argument" in support of Star Citizen so far.

Not that it will convince those who're intent on not being convinced. But if you know anything about the complexity and scale involved - anyone who's open-minded should, at the very least, accept that SOME work has been done and that it's not insignificant.

I guess it falls on an anticipation of "how much more fits in that box" and "how much more can reasonably be expected to transact through that netcode". You think the answer to both is "alot", cool, let's see.

Let's try not putting words in mouths that don't belong to ourselves.

What I'm saying is that there's hope for Star Citizen and I believe something great can come of it.

What I'm not saying is that there's this magical guarentee that the game will be the second coming or that it won't be both flawed and delayed.

Personally, I think the vision is both bold and uncertain. But I admire what they're trying to do - and I greatly admire them for going "all in" - instead of making a 12 million dollar game with a 110 million dollar budget.

Let's not forget that RSI had a poll specifically asking people how funding should proceed and that the VAST majority were in favor of the current method of funding.

That's the vast majority of the supporters actively paying for the game, rather than all the detractors. RSI should not listen?

I don't know what that means as an answer. It sounds like a commercial for a political candidate.

Actually, it is an answer considering your previous statements.

However, it is an answer you do not like because you can't counter his arguments in a logical and cohesive manner.

Hence you fall back to your preferred method of debate.

Talonsin · March 2016

For those of you using the "some truth to it" statement as a basis of your argument, you realize this guy could be held legally liable for anything he says in public about Chris or CIG. The best defense is to say something vague which can be easily contested in court. We all know Chris has a track record of making legal threats.

Lets be honest, if the Escapist just made up the whole thing based on glassdoor comments, why did Chris not sue them? Chris PUBLICALLY threatened them with legal action if they did not retract the story and they did NOT retract it. If most of the story was not true, why would ex-employees still be coming out and saying it is?

You folks are going to keep seeing more and more ex-employees talking bad about CIG and confirming parts of the story from the Escapist. Get used to it. Your prophet Chris Roberts and his wife are not the perfect beings you have been lead to believe.

SEANMCAD · March 2016

Talonsin said:

For those of you using the "some truth to it" statement as a basis of your argument, you realize this guy could be held legally liable for anything he says in public about Chris or CIG. The best defense is to say something vague which can be easily contested in court. We all know Chris has a track record of making legal threats.

Lets be honest, if the Escapist just made up the whole thing based on glassdoor comments, why did Chris not sue them? Chris PUBLICALLY threatened them with legal action if they did not retract the story and they did NOT retract it. If most of the story was not true, why would ex-employees still be coming out and saying it is?

You folks are going to keep seeing more and more ex-employees talking bad about CIG and confirming parts of the story from the Escapist. Get used to it. Your prophet Chris Roberts and his wife are not the perfect beings you have been lead to believe.

-of course they didnt lie, they were lied too
-and this OP has nothing to do with HR practices
-it takes a brain dead fool to not know SC suffers from feature creep you dont need an article to 'proove' the obvious.
-he didnt sue because journalism in the US does NOT have to report the truth, just what they are told is true by pretty much anyone. If they could sue based on truth Fox news would have gone under a looooooong time ago.

Shodanas · March 2016

Roin said:

Good drama thread, but still haven't seen anyone answer that all important question yet. You want people like me who support SC to concede that something is wrong with the project. Well I'm going to need some proof, not conjecture. If Mr. Irving is willing to elaborate on what is 'true'. I'd be more then happy to listen. Without that though this thread is pretty pointless. Very entertaining though.

These are public boards my friend, you can find all sorts of things here except proof.

Every arm chair developer, project manager etc.. can throw mud at anyone without the need to back up any of his claims.

And of course Mr. Irving isn't going to speak about what is 'true'. Because unlike these boards he then would be asked to back his statements. To provide proof. Obviously he can't.

rodarin · March 2016

Its always funny watching people try and spin a video or taped conversation, especially when there is not a lot of 'commitment' in the statement.

But anyone with any sort of social acumen and ability to recognize HOW something is said over WHAT was said understands what the guy is saying.

The WAY he said it one can infer that he was insinuating the more seedy accusations were truthful. The ones that people might be sort of uncomfortable talking about. Not to mention the guy cant really be a whistle blower because he wants to keep working, and he cant 'rat out' people he worked with no matter how bad it was because I suspect everyone in the 'industry' has less than ethical practices in some form or another.

As for him wanting to slack off...he worked on the game when there were 20 people then left when it got to 300. His pay also more than likely went up as well. So for all the slackers out there how much easier is it to slack off and hide or deflect with 15 times as many people as it is without them? If he REALLY wanted to slack off it was much easier when he left than when he started.

Going by what he said and where he kept going with comments I think he simply wanted to MAKE a game and DELIVER it for people to play. Not sitting there in perpetual development and creeping. One can also take from HOW he said things that he thinks the actual possibility og the game getting delivered (in the scope it has reached now) is more than likely impossible,and he also think by HOW and even WHAT he said the probability of Chris Roberts (on his own) being able to recognize it and stay 'stop' are also very low.

He isnt saying anything that anyone thinks is outrageous he is just reaffirming that this game isnt going to be made in the way people think it will be made and everyone knows that, but coming from a guy like him it shoud carry a lot more weight.

The part where he wasnt cagey at all as the money questions. He basically said straight up that f they hadnt gotten as much money as they did the game would be much further along and more than likely at least part of the original vision could have been realized.

He knows CR is his own worst enemy and he stated as much and the insinuation was that CRs hubris and lack of self control are going to be the main reasons why this game wont be made. Surely not for a lack of money or ability of the people actually doing the work.

The one off hand comment about the money was how they moved studios to Ca and not to Texas (which would have obviously been a lot cheaper). So one could take that one off as a dig as well.

What are people expecting from this guy? Unless he wants to run his own studio and not worrying about getting a job someday he cant say much. Now after ti all burns to the ground he might come out with stuff. I think he was very clear and went as far as he could in 'warning' people this game is a pipe dream at this point.

cheyane · March 2016

Of course he is afraid of saying too much when he still needs to work in this industry.Why would he jeopardize that? He said the most he could under the circumstances. Take from it what you will but I doubt you will get any confirmation of any kind from him.

What he said though is better than an anonymous source. Think about that and the risk he took saying anything at all.

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Rob Irving (Former Lead Designer of Star Citizen) interview - admits Escapists article is true

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Rob Irving (Former Lead Designer of Star Citizen) interview - admits Escapists article is true

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