Balticthunder said: Lol, right on spot! It always amazes me how criticism in gamer community is called "hate" - like someone would ever hate any game for real!?
To be honest, some people here seem to truly have "hate problems". But it swings both ways, biased fans can be equally blindedfolded...
I have no hate problems, I have learned to use it quite well.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
If you think having a negative post is bad... I really feel sorry for you. You are pretty much pushing for the status quo and not having any issues fixed. Its fine to like a game and to criticize it. That is how things can get exposed as being an issue and get it fixed.
There is a contingent of people who "think" they are being constructive in their criticism but it always falls miserably low of the mark.
This is not to say that there aren't apologists in gaming communities. Then again maybe the issues brought up aren't issues for them and maybe they are the true audience for those games?
In which case why do the "haters" constantly circle around and inject their thoughts into the discussion when they have no interest in the game or really any interest in a real debate.
"oh wait" I just answered my own question.
Yep, because:
If you have no issue with the game, no one else does. If you do have issue with the game, then you are not the "true" audience. If you are not a "true" audience, you have no interest in "real" debate and "inject your thoughts" into discussions.
You demonstrated OP's point fairly well - he is not interested in any constructive discussions but echo chambers.
I think that's way over the top.
Clearly if people have an issue with a game, others might not but that doesn't mitigate that "someone does". Having said that, sometimes people have huge issues with games and "want things to change" even though it goes against the idea of what the game is actually trying to do.
And "yes" if you do have an issue with the game there is a "possibility" you are not the right audience. There are people who have problems with Darkfall's open world pvp. Wouldn't you say they aren't the right audience? There are people who have problems with games that are clearly "on the rails themeparks" so wouldn't you say that they are not the correct audience? Someone not liking something about a game doesn't mean that they aren't the intended audience. One has to actually look at their complaint and see if it is a mistake in game design or if it is actually what the devs want.
as far as "if you are not a 'true' member of the audience, you have no interest in real debate" That's just not true.
The OP is, as far as I can see, pointing out that it's possible to have discussions where people are not slinging vitriol or undermining a poster with insults in order to discuss games.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
If you think having a negative post is bad... I really feel sorry for you. You are pretty much pushing for the status quo and not having any issues fixed. Its fine to like a game and to criticize it. That is how things can get exposed as being an issue and get it fixed.
I presume you know there is a difference between positive criticism and negative criticism. I also presume you know there is a difference between negative criticism and straight out bashing on a game just for the hell of it. Let's stop pretending to play the word semantic game and arguing just for argument's sake. The post is to bring to light the possibility of having civilized and constructive criticism about games instead of the nonsense that we often see on this forum. I know its a tall order, but I am doing long trade runs and just threw it out there for the heck of it. I'm pretty certain it will go nowhere.
Helpful criticism: How they introduce PVP in this game forces people who have never done PvP in the game to suddenly have to engage in it fully so they can progress. This can be hard for people to get used to as the game never did any sort of PVP before now. Do you guys think it would be better if they gave some PVP battlegrounds or something to at least get people used to the idea of fighting other players, at least on their own terms before they put them in a full open be attacked anytime situation?
This helps to see what the person has a problem with (the introduction to PVP), why they think it's an issue, offers a possible solution, and then asks for peoples opinion. Then it's up to the poster if they get enough people agreeing with him/her to then forward this to the Dev team (or whoever is the proper person to receive this information) in hopes of a possible change.
Not Helpful Criticism: The Devs don't know what they are doing with the PVP in this game people are going to drop like flies once they get to that point, how they thought anyone would be okay with how they are doing this is beyond me. Naturally my post will be riddled with the fans coming at me over this because that's what they do, they can't stand any negative criticism of the game, but this is how I see it, and I know because I have experience in PVP games.
This one starts off with calling the devs ability into question, moves onto immediately going after the fans to try and block any opinion that isn't their own, and ends with trying to boost themselves.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Helpful criticism: How they introduce PVP in this game forces people who have never done PvP in the game to suddenly have to engage in it fully so they can progress. This can be hard for people to get used to as the game never did any sort of PVP before now. Do you guys think it would be better if they gave some PVP battlegrounds or something to at least get people used to the idea of fighting other players, at least on their own terms before they put them in a full open be attacked anytime situation?
This helps to see what the person has a problem with (the introduction to PVP), why they think it's an issue, offers a possible solution, and then asks for peoples opinion. Then it's up to the poster if they get enough people agreeing with him/her to then forward this to the Dev team (or whoever is the proper person to receive this information) in hopes of a possible change.
Not Helpful Criticism: The Devs don't know what they are doing with the PVP in this game people are going to drop like flies once they get to that point, how they thought anyone would be okay with how they are doing this is beyond me. Naturally my post will be riddled with the fans coming at me over this because that's what they do, they can't stand any negative criticism of the game, but this is how I see it, and I know because I have experience in PVP games.
This one starts off with calling the devs ability into question, moves onto immediately going after the fans to try and block any opinion that isn't their own, and ends with trying to boost themselves.
Good post.
Unfortunately helpful criticism requires some minimal command of written English and being reasonably free of personality disorders. That's a lot to ask on the internet
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
- The combat is god awful. - The game will go free in 2-3 months. - The game is already losing people. - The game has terrible graphics. - The game has constant pop-ins every step you make. - The game has a p2w cash shop. - The game is just a grinder. - The game is asian so it's going to fail. (And more.)
To give constructive criticism one must explain WHY they think their OPINION of that feature is like that in their eyes. When you go all the way and say the game is shit and it's going to die soon, you are not attempting to do any discussion, you are flaming. Simple as that.
There is ways and ways on how to criticize something and many here think that what they experienced is fact. There's even people that don't even bother and check if the game has it before bashing it. We had people saying you couldn't revive tamed horses for example which is not true.
Some people are not posting to give criticism, they are posting just to bash the game. We get them even in threads where someone is asking for impressions. Why the need to lie and exaggerate? That is why many are defending the game.
Helpful criticism: How they introduce PVP in this game forces people who have never done PvP in the game to suddenly have to engage in it fully so they can progress. This can be hard for people to get used to as the game never did any sort of PVP before now. Do you guys think it would be better if they gave some PVP battlegrounds or something to at least get people used to the idea of fighting other players, at least on their own terms before they put them in a full open be attacked anytime situation?
This helps to see what the person has a problem with (the introduction to PVP), why they think it's an issue, offers a possible solution, and then asks for peoples opinion. Then it's up to the poster if they get enough people agreeing with him/her to then forward this to the Dev team (or whoever is the proper person to receive this information) in hopes of a possible change.
Not Helpful Criticism: The Devs don't know what they are doing with the PVP in this game people are going to drop like flies once they get to that point, how they thought anyone would be okay with how they are doing this is beyond me. Naturally my post will be riddled with the fans coming at me over this because that's what they do, they can't stand any negative criticism of the game, but this is how I see it, and I know because I have experience in PVP games.
This one starts off with calling the devs ability into question, moves onto immediately going after the fans to try and block any opinion that isn't their own, and ends with trying to boost themselves.
Although I agree with your overall premise, your example of "not helpful criticism" is really not so bad. No, it isn't helpful but it simply illustrates frustration by an otherwise active member of the game due to the manner the PvP was implemented in the game. It's ok to display discourse with a particular feature that an active player in the game feels frustrated over. What is not ok are straight out lies about the game simply because the game doesn't satisfy a personal agenda or doesn't feature a player's personal preferences.
A few examples would be negative posts that show one doesn't have a good understanding of the game and instead of seeking or asking for clarification they go on a rant about it, posts with posters simply stating "this game sucks," quit posts with posters acting as spokespersons for everyone saying things like "every one is quitting" even though they have no idea who is or is not quitting, and making baseless claims about lower populations or that the game is dying simply because the game did not meet their personal expectations of how the game should play.
In other words, bashing, being deceitful and spreading lies or misinformation about a game simply because the game did not fulfill a personal agenda. And even those examples wouldn't be so bad if a poster just posted that garbage once or twice out of frustration and moved on but some of these posters go on personal hate crusades about a game they supposedly hate even though they are no longer even playing the game. One would think that the logical thing to do would be to just move on and find a game they do like, but no, they have to go on this hater crusade for weeks, sometimes months, at a time about the game.
Reddit yes the place where Smedley got fired because it is such a wonderful hangout.A place where you can often find all kinds of dirt and flaming. A DAUM Q/a thread that got off topic with several posts on GW2 lol,guess the OP missed that part. You know what i see,an angry kid who was on an agenda to point fingers ,a new way of flaming users here.
When you mention you want good mature discussion,you do NOT accomplish that by pointing fingers at one side of the fence,that makes you look like a hypocrite.
It is like saying ,i would love a good discussion about Chrysler cars but only the ones i like.Anyone that says anything negative about my fave Chrysler car, i will insult them and find a thread somewhere that supports all positive comments about MY CAR,to prove those other people are just bad people.
CONGRATULATIONS OP you found a new way to insult/flame users,good job. The rest of the users should do that,maybe find something on you tube or Twitter to support an agenda of insulting others,yeah that would make it a better place. Come back when you sincerely mean what you say,your one side of the fence agenda is just insulting and proved you were NOT sincere but just flaming others.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Reddit yes the place where Smedley got fired because it is such a wonderful hangout.A place where you can often find all kinds of dirt and flaming. A DAUM Q/a thread that got off topic with several posts on GW2 lol,guess the OP missed that part. You know what i see,an angry kid who was on an agenda to point fingers ,a new way of flaming users here.
When you mention you want good mature discussion,you do NOT accomplish that by pointing fingers at one side of the fence,that makes you look like a hypocrite.
It is like saying ,i would love a good discussion about Chrysler cars but only the ones i like.Anyone that says anything negative about my fave Chrysler car, i will insult them and find a thread somewhere that supports all positive comments about MY CAR,to prove those other people are just bad people.
CONGRATULATIONS OP you found a new way to insult/flame users,good job. The rest of the users should do that,maybe find something on you tube or Twitter to support an agenda of insulting others,yeah that would make it a better place. Come back when you sincerely mean what you say,your one side of the fence agenda is just insulting and proved you were NOT sincere but just flaming others.
Bingo! and there he is lol
If I am not mistaken, I think the overriding consensus on this forum is that you sir are one of, if not the biggest, violators of the topic at hand.
Rose tinted glasses, the fanboy's preferred apparatus.
Pretty much this.
Once it is praising the game, it is considered "constructive" discussion but if you dare to say anything supposedly negative, you are imediately hater and bashing the game...
It isn't the first and won't be the last time on these boards...
Lol, right on spot! It always amazes me how criticism in gamer community is called "hate" - like someone would ever hate any game for real!?
Yes it is quite easy logic to consider right?Well for some they don't GET IT,the reason is very simple>>>>immaturity. They think other opinions just have to be wrong,even though it is only an opinion which by definition can NEVER be wrong,again they don't GET IT. To have a TRUE discussion means from ALL sides of the fence,again they don't GET IT. What i OFTEN see is instead of sticking to the topic of THE GAME,is those immature people sill change topic to be about a poster.user,again that is very immature and RUDE.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Not at all. Considering how you are reinforcing on "If you don't like it, leave", I would say I was rather spot on.
Do you know what games adopting "If you don't like it, leave" policy are called? Dead games. It is the best way to chase your playerbase away.
The irony part is that with this very same policy you are trying to defend "constructive" discussion....
Telling your customers to f*** off, does not stand for a good business nor constructive discussion.
That should make sense to anyone, but it isn't the case it seems...
OP links reddit BDO thread where everyone is patting each others back how the game is awesome and sets the title to "This is what a game thread should look like ..."
Not at all. Considering how you are reinforcing on "If you don't like it, leave"
hmmm, well there is a difference between constructive criticism and negative criticism which seems to be the thrust of the original post.
Then there is the issue that after a while if a player isn't seeing the results they want after "some type of criticism" that they have the choice to stay and continue to complain or go find something that better fits what they are looking for.
I'm kind of in the latter camp. Why continue to complain? that's not really a healthy investment.
As far as "dead games" you know what make dead games? Developers who chase rather broad demographics in the hope to capture everyone when they just don't have the resources to make everyone happy. When instead they can focus on whatever demographic might be interested in their game and then adjust accordingly as far as their budget, what type of income they might have, how they will deal with dwindling population over time.
But "yeah" I'm going to make constructive criticisms and if I don't see what I want I'll just look for something else. I could just stay and complain but in "my book" that's not really healthy. However I suppose one's mileage may vary with that.You can either do things that support your life and your happiness or you can just continually complain long after there's any hope to change things.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Sovrath said: When instead they can focus on whatever demographic might be interested in their game and then adjust accordingly as far as their budget, what type of income they might have, how they will deal with dwindling population over time.
This, of course, is lacking any economics and business sense.
Games don't die because they try to capture broader audience, they die because they focus on audience that is too small to support the development.
Also, you somehow lost focus/track. The point wasn't about those who complain but how you react to criticism and how it is prohibiting constructive, or in fact any, discussion.
You have to have a proper vocab. You can't say things like the combat is moronic. Because when someone else is loving the combat he or she feels like you called them moronic. It's hard to not get defensive.
It's kinda like Real Madrid. Or Man United, or Chelsea. When all's said and done, those are huge successful football clubs. But the success brings in the haters and flamers. The more success, the more haters and flamers.
It's a tribute to just how good BDO is that I haven't seen this much flame about a game for ages. Lots of hater butt hurt out there.
Sovrath said: When instead they can focus on whatever demographic might be interested in their game and then adjust accordingly as far as their budget, what type of income they might have, how they will deal with dwindling population over time.
This, of course, is lacking any economics and business sense.
Games don't die because they try to capture broader audience, they die because they focus on audience that is too small to support the development.
Also, you somehow lost focus/track. The point wasn't about those who complain but how you react to criticism and how it is prohibiting constructive, or in fact any, discussion.
I was responding to this part:
Not at all. Considering how you are reinforcing on "If you don't like it, leave"
And the logic would be the company focusing on whatever demographic would alter their budget/final product. Essentially "being smart" about what they are developing with regards to how many people will realistically buy it and be able to support. it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Just thought I'd post this BDO game thread discussion going on Reddit. Over 200 responses and not a negative post to be seen. Everyone is discussing the game in a civilized and informative manner. Would be nice to see this type of BDO discussion being held on MMORPG.com. Sadly that does not seem possible with the number of posters on this site who do nothing but criticize not only BDO, but every game that is released. MMORPG.com is a great site but its forum community leaves much to be desired. Only posting this with hopes that it will one day change.
The problem is that on these forums we have a breeding ground for shills because despite the OBVIOUS advertising , particularly in the Star Citizen forums, and mostly by one user in particular, the mods turn a blind eye.
Shills and extreme fanboism turn this site into a breeding ground for non stop arguments.
Literally the first comment I saw after scrolling past the initial post was negative, ending with "I am not sure if Daum/PearlAbyss are idiots or simply plain moronic ?". Lols
There is plenty of BDO hate on reddit, not sure how you're missing it.
You're taking the post out of context. I didn't mean to imply that there weren't any differences of opinion being made. Those types of remarks are perfectly normal in civilized discussions. On any given day one might feel compelled to call a family member an idiot or simply plain moronic but that doesn't mean they don't love that family member. Point being, that is a largely positive discussion being held regarding outstanding issues on the game. You have to look pretty hard to find anything that would be considered flaming or toxic. Everything is relevant and constructive.
I feel this thread is idiotic and moronic but I mean that in a loving (though not inapropriately so) way. that's OK then right?
Seriously, if Reddit is so virtuous hang out there. Why do you want to save posters here from them selves? Do you see yourself as some sort of evangelical missionary? In any case your fighting a loosing battle (is that negative). Personally I value truth free of perceptional bias and 'agenda', if that's negative so be it.
Personally I think if OP wants to create a healthy discussion, why dont you come to definite terms to your ideal discussion?
Everyone has standards, either haters or fanboys. When OP define your "civilized discussion" from your perspective clearly, I think it will help all sides to deliver constructive feedbacks.
Sorry for bad english.
When you don't want the truth, you will make up your own truth.
Literally the first comment I saw after scrolling past the initial post was negative, ending with "I am not sure if Daum/PearlAbyss are idiots or simply plain moronic ?". Lols
There is plenty of BDO hate on reddit, not sure how you're missing it.
You're taking the post out of context. I didn't mean to imply that there weren't any differences of opinion being made. Those types of remarks are perfectly normal in civilized discussions. On any given day one might feel compelled to call a family member an idiot or simply plain moronic but that doesn't mean they don't love that family member. Point being, that is a largely positive discussion being held regarding outstanding issues on the game. You have to look pretty hard to find anything that would be considered flaming or toxic. Everything is relevant and constructive.
I feel this thread is idiotic and moronic but I mean that in a loving (though not inapropriately so) way. that's OK then right?
Seriously, if Reddit is so virtuous hang out there. Why do you want to save posters here from them selves? Do you see yourself as some sort of evangelical missionary? In any case your fighting a loosing battle (is that negative). Personally I value truth free of perceptional bias and 'agenda', if that's negative so be it.
Have you read the entirety of this thread at all before posting the above. I doubt it because had you done so it would have been made clear to you by not only myself, but several other posters, that this isn't about Reddit, it is simply about the viability of having civilized and constructive debate when discussing games. That said, you are exactly the type of poster that I am trying to "save" from the rest of us who enjoy this site and would rather avoid the immature game bashing that is all too often tolerated. You brought nothing to this discussion with the above post. As a matter of fact, rarely does one encounter a poster who manages to insult him/herself with a post in which they intended to demean another poster but, congratulations, you've achieved that rare distinction since with your last sentence you literally agreed with the exact point that I am trying to make with this thread.
One of the troubles with Reddit is that people vote based on whether they agree or disagree with the poster rather than the quality of the contribution. If votes where used properly it would be be a great system. As to the forums here they are what they are. It would take more rigorous interpretation and moderation of the posting guidelines to make them anything different. Having said that I kinda like that people whine and bitch, bait and bash. They are 'a laugh'.
Comments
Everyone should adapt Reddit's echo chamber style.
Anyone else is just a damn troll !
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Clearly if people have an issue with a game, others might not but that doesn't mitigate that "someone does". Having said that, sometimes people have huge issues with games and "want things to change" even though it goes against the idea of what the game is actually trying to do.
And "yes" if you do have an issue with the game there is a "possibility" you are not the right audience. There are people who have problems with Darkfall's open world pvp. Wouldn't you say they aren't the right audience? There are people who have problems with games that are clearly "on the rails themeparks" so wouldn't you say that they are not the correct audience? Someone not liking something about a game doesn't mean that they aren't the intended audience. One has to actually look at their complaint and see if it is a mistake in game design or if it is actually what the devs want.
as far as "if you are not a 'true' member of the audience, you have no interest in real debate" That's just not true.
The OP is, as far as I can see, pointing out that it's possible to have discussions where people are not slinging vitriol or undermining a poster with insults in order to discuss games.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I presume you know there is a difference between positive criticism and negative criticism. I also presume you know there is a difference between negative criticism and straight out bashing on a game just for the hell of it. Let's stop pretending to play the word semantic game and arguing just for argument's sake. The post is to bring to light the possibility of having civilized and constructive criticism about games instead of the nonsense that we often see on this forum. I know its a tall order, but I am doing long trade runs and just threw it out there for the heck of it. I'm pretty certain it will go nowhere.
Helpful criticism: How they introduce PVP in this game forces people who have never done PvP in the game to suddenly have to engage in it fully so they can progress. This can be hard for people to get used to as the game never did any sort of PVP before now. Do you guys think it would be better if they gave some PVP battlegrounds or something to at least get people used to the idea of fighting other players, at least on their own terms before they put them in a full open be attacked anytime situation?
This helps to see what the person has a problem with (the introduction to PVP), why they think it's an issue, offers a possible solution, and then asks for peoples opinion. Then it's up to the poster if they get enough people agreeing with him/her to then forward this to the Dev team (or whoever is the proper person to receive this information) in hopes of a possible change.
Not Helpful Criticism: The Devs don't know what they are doing with the PVP in this game people are going to drop like flies once they get to that point, how they thought anyone would be okay with how they are doing this is beyond me. Naturally my post will be riddled with the fans coming at me over this because that's what they do, they can't stand any negative criticism of the game, but this is how I see it, and I know because I have experience in PVP games.
This one starts off with calling the devs ability into question, moves onto immediately going after the fans to try and block any opinion that isn't their own, and ends with trying to boost themselves.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Unfortunately helpful criticism requires some minimal command of written English and being reasonably free of personality disorders. That's a lot to ask on the internet
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
- The combat is god awful.
- The game will go free in 2-3 months.
- The game is already losing people.
- The game has terrible graphics.
- The game has constant pop-ins every step you make.
- The game has a p2w cash shop.
- The game is just a grinder.
- The game is asian so it's going to fail.
(And more.)
To give constructive criticism one must explain WHY they think their OPINION of that feature is like that in their eyes. When you go all the way and say the game is shit and it's going to die soon, you are not attempting to do any discussion, you are flaming. Simple as that.
There is ways and ways on how to criticize something and many here think that what they experienced is fact. There's even people that don't even bother and check if the game has it before bashing it. We had people saying you couldn't revive tamed horses for example which is not true.
Some people are not posting to give criticism, they are posting just to bash the game. We get them even in threads where someone is asking for impressions. Why the need to lie and exaggerate? That is why many are defending the game.
Although I agree with your overall premise, your example of "not helpful criticism" is really not so bad. No, it isn't helpful but it simply illustrates frustration by an otherwise active member of the game due to the manner the PvP was implemented in the game. It's ok to display discourse with a particular feature that an active player in the game feels frustrated over. What is not ok are straight out lies about the game simply because the game doesn't satisfy a personal agenda or doesn't feature a player's personal preferences.
A few examples would be negative posts that show one doesn't have a good understanding of the game and instead of seeking or asking for clarification they go on a rant about it, posts with posters simply stating "this game sucks," quit posts with posters acting as spokespersons for everyone saying things like "every one is quitting" even though they have no idea who is or is not quitting, and making baseless claims about lower populations or that the game is dying simply because the game did not meet their personal expectations of how the game should play.
In other words, bashing, being deceitful and spreading lies or misinformation about a game simply because the game did not fulfill a personal agenda. And even those examples wouldn't be so bad if a poster just posted that garbage once or twice out of frustration and moved on but some of these posters go on personal hate crusades about a game they supposedly hate even though they are no longer even playing the game. One would think that the logical thing to do would be to just move on and find a game they do like, but no, they have to go on this hater crusade for weeks, sometimes months, at a time about the game.
It's dumbfounding behavior.
A DAUM Q/a thread that got off topic with several posts on GW2 lol,guess the OP missed that part.
You know what i see,an angry kid who was on an agenda to point fingers ,a new way of flaming users here.
When you mention you want good mature discussion,you do NOT accomplish that by pointing fingers at one side of the fence,that makes you look like a hypocrite.
It is like saying ,i would love a good discussion about Chrysler cars but only the ones i like.Anyone that says anything negative about my fave Chrysler car, i will insult them and find a thread somewhere that supports all positive comments about MY CAR,to prove those other people are just bad people.
CONGRATULATIONS OP you found a new way to insult/flame users,good job.
The rest of the users should do that,maybe find something on you tube or Twitter to support an agenda of insulting others,yeah that would make it a better place.
Come back when you sincerely mean what you say,your one side of the fence agenda is just insulting and proved you were NOT sincere but just flaming others.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Bingo! and there he is lol
If I am not mistaken, I think the overriding consensus on this forum is that you sir are one of, if not the biggest, violators of the topic at hand.
Sometimes you have to spank 'em to learn 'em.
They think other opinions just have to be wrong,even though it is only an opinion which by definition can NEVER be wrong,again they don't GET IT.
To have a TRUE discussion means from ALL sides of the fence,again they don't GET IT.
What i OFTEN see is instead of sticking to the topic of THE GAME,is those immature people sill change topic to be about a poster.user,again that is very immature and RUDE.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Do you know what games adopting "If you don't like it, leave" policy are called? Dead games. It is the best way to chase your playerbase away.
The irony part is that with this very same policy you are trying to defend "constructive" discussion....
Telling your customers to f*** off, does not stand for a good business nor constructive discussion.
That should make sense to anyone, but it isn't the case it seems...
OP links reddit BDO thread where everyone is patting each others back how the game is awesome and sets the title to "This is what a game thread should look like ..."
Now, what do you want to discuss here again...?
Then there is the issue that after a while if a player isn't seeing the results they want after "some type of criticism" that they have the choice to stay and continue to complain or go find something that better fits what they are looking for.
I'm kind of in the latter camp. Why continue to complain? that's not really a healthy investment.
As far as "dead games" you know what make dead games? Developers who chase rather broad demographics in the hope to capture everyone when they just don't have the resources to make everyone happy. When instead they can focus on whatever demographic might be interested in their game and then adjust accordingly as far as their budget, what type of income they might have, how they will deal with dwindling population over time.
But "yeah" I'm going to make constructive criticisms and if I don't see what I want I'll just look for something else. I could just stay and complain but in "my book" that's not really healthy. However I suppose one's mileage may vary with that.You can either do things that support your life and your happiness or you can just continually complain long after there's any hope to change things.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Games don't die because they try to capture broader audience, they die because they focus on audience that is too small to support the development.
Also, you somehow lost focus/track. The point wasn't about those who complain but how you react to criticism and how it is prohibiting constructive, or in fact any, discussion.
SWG?
It's a tribute to just how good BDO is that I haven't seen this much flame about a game for ages. Lots of hater butt hurt out there.
Not at all. Considering how you are reinforcing on "If you don't like it, leave"
And the logic would be the company focusing on whatever demographic would alter their budget/final product. Essentially "being smart" about what they are developing with regards to how many people will realistically buy it and be able to support. it.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Shills and extreme fanboism turn this site into a breeding ground for non stop arguments.
I feel this thread is idiotic and moronic but I mean that in a loving (though not inapropriately so) way. that's OK then right?
Seriously, if Reddit is so virtuous hang out there. Why do you want to save posters here from them selves? Do you see yourself as some sort of evangelical missionary? In any case your fighting a loosing battle (is that negative). Personally I value truth free of perceptional bias and 'agenda', if that's negative so be it.
Everyone has standards, either haters or fanboys. When OP define your "civilized discussion" from your perspective clearly, I think it will help all sides to deliver constructive feedbacks.
Sorry for bad english.
When you don't want the truth, you will make up your own truth.
Have you read the entirety of this thread at all before posting the above. I doubt it because had you done so it would have been made clear to you by not only myself, but several other posters, that this isn't about Reddit, it is simply about the viability of having civilized and constructive debate when discussing games. That said, you are exactly the type of poster that I am trying to "save" from the rest of us who enjoy this site and would rather avoid the immature game bashing that is all too often tolerated. You brought nothing to this discussion with the above post. As a matter of fact, rarely does one encounter a poster who manages to insult him/herself with a post in which they intended to demean another poster but, congratulations, you've achieved that rare distinction since with your last sentence you literally agreed with the exact point that I am trying to make with this thread.